Is Clementine still wearing Lilly's hair 'thingies'?
Are the things she uses to tie her hair back the same as the ones in season 1?
Just curious 
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Are the things she uses to tie her hair back the same as the ones in season 1?
Just curious
Comments
I don't think so...she's cutting her hair now, remember?
Umm... I think so. Does it matter?
No, as in, in episode 3 she uses them to tie up her hair after she cuts it.
She cuts her hair and ties back the rest with Lilly's hair 'thingies'. If you watch that scene again you will see it.
So yes, she still uses the same ones Lilly gave her. I think so anyway, they are the same colour.
Well my husband and some friends are Lilly fans, so they could see Clementine keeping the bands as her remembering her friend
Regardless of whether that's true, it's a nice headcannon to the Lilly fans I'm sure.
Just like if Clem was wearing a bracelet Kenny gave to her in season one or something
Looks like it.
Uh, what scene?
I thought of it more just as... There's no reason to get rid of them?
Same, but for Lilly fans they can say that she's wearing them because Clem wants to remember her.
Just like there would be no reason to get rid of Kenny's hypothetical bracelet, but it's still a nice idea
Yea right, my mistake!
But still...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0
Lilly fans might, and my husband did.
I am still asking myself, how some people on this forum can be Lilly fans...
Everyone has the right of free will and speech, but even Lilly's voice actress hates the character and calles her a bitch! lol
Well, not everyone has the same opinion, and no opinion is correct or incorrect in this situation.
Is this the same friend that left her and her guardian to die right after murdering her friend in cold blood?
All in all, if Lilly makes an appearance this season, I think the dialogue would go something like this regarding the hair pieces:
Lilly: I see that you're still wearing the hair pieces I gave you
Clementine: Oh, I forgot that you were the one that gave them to me
Clementine takes off the hair pieces and throws them away. Lilly gets angry and pulls out her gun and attempts to shoot Clementine only to be salt licked by Kenny.
I think so. While I don't think it's a nod at trying to remember Lily it is kind of interesting.
Considering that's a determinant event, it's kind of hard to say that Clementine must immediately be angry about that.
However, considering that Lilly was clearly on good terms with Clementine at some point, and did honestly care about her well-being, one could easily see it as Clementine holding onto a memory of when she was her friend. Hate to add a bit of rationality to your Kenny fanfiction, but there doesn't have to be any ill-will towards Lilly from Clementine, especially seeing all that she's seen up until now. If she's willing to defend Nick for murdering someone to defend the group, which is exactly what Lilly did, then she can certainly be open to forgiving Lilly.
It'd kinda be a waste of 'hair thingies' if she threw them out.
Just think how dirty they must be... Even Clementine admits her hair smells. "Kinda".
In the same way that not all clementines like Kenny (as you can say you never really liked him), not all clementines hate lilly.
But the murder and hostile attitude isn't determinant. The murder of her friend is enough to get anyone angry.
The fact that she would leave Clementine to die when she selfishly stole the RV throws this "care" Lilly has for Clem out the window. Clementine's been dodging zombies left and right, out in the cold wilderness and encountering dangerous people in the process, with no mirror I don't think she paid the hair pieces any attention and would be the last thing on her mind. What Clementine has seen up until now is bad people hurting others because they're twisted(The St Johns, Stranger), Lilly fits in with them. Not defending Nick but he was trying to help his friends and he didn't know Matthew, from a distance he saw that Matthew was armed. What was Lilly's reasoning to killing someone she knew who was unarmed with no proof? Clem's not stupid, I think she knows what Lilly did was way worse than what Nick did. If she can give Walter that death stare and hitting him after he left Nick to die then I expect her to be hostile with Lilly for what she did.
What?
Clementine had a smile on her face when she saw Kenny. We can make decisions for the protagonist but we can't make the protagonist like the character that caused them harm.
Did you forget about the time that Kenny killed an old man in cold blood right in front of her? Or what about the time where he (determinately) beat the shit out of her guardian? Or maybe the time he said that he should've killed one of her friends?
That is quite possibly the least funny Lilly parody I've ever seen, by the way. I mean, don't get me wrong, they both suck, but Lilly is more rational than that.
Yeah I think they are but I don't think its because Clementine wants to remember Lilly but because it would be a waste to get rid of them and where else would she get any more since pretty much every town and city would be overrun with walkers. I mean Lilly shot either Carley or Doug right in front of her people who she also would of got to know pretty well in that three month period so I doubt Clementine would have a positive view towards Lilly.
That's mean.
You forget that the old man tried to throw out a little kid that she was good friends with and punched her guardian in the face and left him to die and in her view, the old man was possibly dead. She didn't witness Kenny beating the shit out of Lee or even knows about it. Yeah he said he should've killed Ben who caused Katjaa and Duck's demise but did he do it though?
Lilly killed someone because she was butthurt about being called a bitch or attempted to kill a frightened teen without even listening to him, how is that rational?
I bet she never takes them out because of Lee being the one that cut her hair and i think he also put them in, and they are the same color of the ones she had in the train.
She looks so much better texture and assets-wise in S2.
To be fair, the second screenshot was taken by me in a lossless format at 2560x1440, cropped, and downscaled. The first screenshot looks like it was taken from a compressed, low resolution YouTube video.
You're right though, it looks a lot better regardless. Especially compared to her S1E1 and S1E2 model, which was half the resolution of the model used in later episodes.
Lilly was freaking out. She just lost her dad. Bandits just destroyed the group she was leading's home. The group was betrayed to the bandits. People act like she's a coldblooded killer, but it was absolutely a crime of passion and it's extremely obvious she regretted it. She didn't take the RV to leave everyone to die. She took it because she wanted to be alone. It was a selfish action and it was wrong, but she had just murdered someone and she regretted it. She couldn't bear to look the group in the face anymore. She'd failed them. Yeah, her dad was a tool, but even he was looking out for her.
All Clem knows is that she liked Lilly and she watched Kenny splatter her dad's head all over the place. It was no secret that he hated Larry. If it had been Katjaa who had been there and had a heart attack, he would not have been so quick to smash her head in. Just look at how he was riding the train with Duck bit. So Clem watching Kenny murder Larry or Lilly murder/accidentally kill Carley/Doug would have a similar effect. Confusion, a sense of betrayal, grief. But it wouldn't turn her off of either person.
Both committed crimes of passion, and both were in extreme emotional and psychological pain. Lilly lost her dad and her home (and all that that implies) and Kenny was terrified that his wife and son were going to be made into steaks.
In my playthrough, Lee got along okay with Lilly and Larry and sort of okay with Kenny. My story, though, Kenny often seemed to be the instigator of most of the problems, and Clementine definitely caught that. Often people end up in situations working with huge assholes, and typically, you try not to set the assholes off and get what needs be done done. Kenny cared about Clementine (as did practically everyone in the group, even Larry), but he really only cared about his family. Normally I can't fault this, but he cared less about the group as a unit and more about protecting his own. You can't exactly have it both ways. Kenny's behavior sabotaged the group almost as much as Ben's did, though in less overt and head-desky ways.
Kenny and Lilly are both very flawed characters, and people should stop acting like one is more moral than the other. They're not. Both had their own codes and stuck to them, and that's why they were at odds. Lilly wanted the ensure the survival of the group at the cost of the individual and Kenny cared more about the survival of certain individuals at the cost of the group. This is where Clementine got the most turned off Kenny, to me. Lee and Lilly worked more to the benefit of the group, and so that's the moral paradigm Clementine learned. The value of the strength of the group. Kenny was a destabilizing entity and it put a wedge between them.
oh god i wrote so much
She is. Lily gave them to her, she mentioned it on the train, when Lee cut her hair.
So.. Yeah. She does.
The dirty part was before cutting her hair.
In fact, Lee mentioned her hair and she replied with that
Where did she say that? Source, pal.
Sure, I'd expect her to be angry, but not enough to cast her out yet again after all this time. You talk as though Carley was super close to Clementine and Lilly destroyed some great bond or something, but there's no indication of that at all as far as we can tell. She showed more of a liking for Doug than she ever did for Carley.
That's what Lilly was doing too. "I was trying to protect all of us". She isn't lying there. She made a horrible call, but she felt she was right that Carley was the traitor and was lying to her face as well as the rest of the group. Again, the decision was a bad one, but it was not without its own logic to it. Same with Nick, except Nick was actually stupider than Lilly. He had no reason whatsoever to shoot at Matthew, and did it while in a heated state of mind due to loss... just like Lilly. The situations are different, but there's a reason TellTale made a direct connection between Nick and Lilly. Neither is worse than the other, as far as I'm concerned. In the end, an innocent person is dead either way because of another person's stupid choice. People only get on Lilly's case more is because they knew and liked Carley/Doug and never got a chance to know Matthew. That's understandable, but it kind of annoys me that some fans of Nick kind of just brush off Matthew's death, despite the terrible pain it caused. After seeing a more genuine apology from Nick, I went a little easier on him, but I maintain that he was just as bad as Lilly at that point, if not worse, because unlike Lilly, there was no logic to what he did. Lilly did, but it was "logical" in the coldest sense, not too unlike Kenny letting that woman die without a care.
Also, Lilly does not fit in at all with the Stranger or the St. Johns. That's ludicrous. We have seen multiple times Lilly do what it takes to protect the group, saving Lee's life and everybody's life and being kind and supportive in a less frenzied environment. She is not a cannibal or a psycho who want to do everything they can to destroy someone's life. She shot someone either because she thought they were a traitor, or as an accident. That's not the same thing as enjoying killing and causing suffering for the sake of it. She's flawed as all hell, no doubt, but she's not a psychotic killer.
One could say that Kenny exhibits a dark side when he's perfectly fine leaving a woman out to get torn apart to give them more time. And don't give me that "it's what must be done" or "that's life now" crap either, because it's every bit as horrible as shooting a teammate because you suspect them of treason. Killing anyone you deem a threat could also be justified as "it's life now".
And I would say the same thing for Kenny when, in a determinant scene, tells Lee to go fuck himself, or even just entertains the very idea of letting Lee go by himself, thus endangering Clementine's safety and sacrificing her to the Stranger, because of his own self-centered bullshit. And yet Kenny fans would no doubt say, "He loves Clementine, he'd do anything to help her". Bull. Shit.
Again, only if we're being steadfast that a determinant scene shows what a character is really like. I'm not saying you're wrong, necessarily, but I am saying that much like Kenny's case, there may well be a bit more to it than just what we see. Lilly escaped out of desperation and pure and total selfishness, yes, I'll admit that. But as we see if you agreed with her up until this point, she shows that she still cares about Lee and doesn't want to hurt him, but she has to get away from the group. One of the problems with that scene is that TellTale seemed to be expecting us to say no, because if you say yes, she specifically says "Get Clementine and let's go" but then takes off. Not a very well-written sequence, but I guess you gotta draw your own conclusions from there.
Well considering Carley nearly risked her life to save Clem then saved her again and showed concern for her, I would say they have a close relationship. I see Clems relationship with Doug & Carley the same. Even if they weren't, she had a close relationship with Lee who had a close relationship with Carley and Clem had a close relationship with Ben who Lilly tried to kill in another walkthrough. I expect her to cast Lilly out because not only did she take away the life of Carley/Doug in a cold blooded manner but hurt the rest of the group as well, you wouldn't expect her to be friendly with the Stranger.
And what did she do afterwards? She stole the RV. Saying you did this to protect the group only to leave them die afterwards already indicates that was nothing but a liar. I don't think she killed Carley because she thought she was the traitor, she had it out for Carley since the beginning if you notice that dirty look Lilly gives right after Carley calls Kenny boss and used the traitor excuse to target & harass her, ever wonder why she never accused Doug. It was without logic because she had no proof only her word of mouth. Nick's action is more understandable, he saw a stranger with a gun near his friends and quickly got the wrong idea. People get on Lilly's case because her action was worse and illogical, she knew Carley for three months, Carley did nothing to antagonize anyone or did anything to her for that matter and out of nowhere she starts accusing her instead of Ben and even goes as far as insulting her family and threaten Ben into forcing him to point the finger at her without any evidence even when Carley was being calm, she was still getting up in her face and then murders her in the cruelest way because Carley had enough of her harassment, where's the logic in this? and you know what makes Lilly's action even more worse? She never felt bad, at least Nick felt guilt all the way to the Ski Lodge, Lilly never felt any remorse not even once when she was in the RV and don't give me that "She was sad" excuse, that was an act, when Lee turned around after picking up the pencil her facial expression quickly changed, why is that, because it was act. That's why people get on her case more, we knew Carley but so did she. And yes Kenny did leave that woman to die but she was already bitten, don't forget not too long ago, Lilly did the same with Lee, Clem, Kenny, Duck, Katjaa and Ben but she was gonna let them die anyway bitten or not.
Oh but there's a lot she has in common with the Stranger and the St Johns. Like the Stranger, they both never took any responsibility for the downfall that fell up on them and instead blamed others(leaving the station wagon unguarded and keeping everybody at the motel). Not to mention The St Johns & The Stranger pretending to be friendly with Clementine, we saw this with Lilly(Jolene's video). When did we see her protecting the group? the motel attack where she arrogantly kept everybody at even though bandits where lurking in the woods. I don't recall her being supportive or friendly when you disagree with her and acts like an unreasonable bitch. Lilly fits into the psychotic category, even if you don't think she does, you have to admit that she is a killer. How does her killing or attempting to kill someone she believes is a traitor make her any less guilty? She used this as an excuse to pick on someone she didn't like, she knew this person for months, who has done nothing but help the group and instead of giving her a chance to prove her innocence, she kills her without hesitation, same with Ben. And not once did the Stranger or the St Johns ever express likeness or enjoyment in hurting others but like Lilly, they didn't care.
Whoa, let's back it up, there is no comparison with leaving a stranger who was already bitten and killing a fellow group member in cold blood. I see a lot of Lilly lovers criticizing Kenny for leaving that woman but do you actually think Lilly would've done something different with that screaming woman? Remember, Kenny helped save Ben & Parker/Travis so he's not completely heartless as you make him out to be and he felt that there would be nothing to accomplish by risking your life to save someone who has already been bitten. But the thing is, Carley & Ben were not threats, they were unarmed and were not a danger to anybody and she didn't have any proof that they were threats and therefore had no reason to do what she did.
OK, you're saying Kenny never gave a damn about Clementine but what makes you thing Lilly did?
There's a 50/50 chance Kenny will help you but even if he doesn't go with you, he'll still decide to wait for you. Lilly leaving you and everybody else to die will always be the one and only result no matter how good you were to her. One thing that makes Kenny different from Lilly is that he's grateful and will help you in return if you're on good terms with him and you can still convince him to come with you even if you were on bad terms but with Lilly she's ungrateful and will only look out for herself even if you were on good terms. I'm not a diehard fan of Kenny but if I had to pick between the two, I'll choose Kenny all the time.
Determinant scene or not, that just shows you what kind of person she is, she'll take advantage of people that go easy on her after she committed a sinister act. She'll leave you for dead no matter how "good" you were to her, how does this give you any indication that she cares about you or Clem, if she wants to get away from the group then walk instead of betraying people that decided to let her back in the RV. At least Kenny doesn't abandon you if you've been bad to him, he just refuses to help but will wait for you. And when Lilly says "Get Clementine and let's go" and then takes off, why else would Telltale put that in, to show the Lilly fans that "you cared and sided with her but she doesn't care about you", it was to show that she's a liar that never gave a damn about you but apparently her fans didn't get the memo.
She killed someone for no reason, had no proof and didn't show any remorse, wouldn't you say that's a cold blooded act? And no, she showed no signs that she regretted it, the first words that came out of her mouth was her trying to justify her actions and even in the RV she made no mention that she regretted it. If she wanted to be alone then she should've walked instead of taking the one transport vehicle she never fixed and leaving her group exposed to danger. She looked like she didn't give a fuck when she was taking the RV. She never cared about the group and didn't care what they thought of her let alone not looking in their faces. And failed them? She never acknowledged her faults or took any responsibility so I doubt she felt that she failed them.
All she saw was Kenny preventing a dead guy from coming back as a zombie not to mention she witness that same dead guy punching her guardian in the face and leaving him for dead as well as attempting to throw out her good friend. She saw a crazy woman(Lilly) kill a kind member(Carley) of the group in cold blood who had a close relationship with her guardian or attempt to kill a good friend(Ben). We don't know whether she liked Lilly after that, she may have changed her mind like she did with the Stranger. By now, Clem would understand why Kenny did what he did but won't understand why Lilly did what she did to people that never did anything to her.
But the thing is Kenny had a reason to do what he did, Lilly on the other hand didn't.
All of the problems came from Lilly's stubborn leadership. Do you think she cared about the group? She kept everybody at the motel just so her dad can be by the pharmacy, she made decisions that would benefit her father instead of the safety of the group. Remember who helped took over and assured Lilly that they'll help her dad in Episode 1? That's right Kenny. And Lilly leaving everybody for dead showed she never gave a damn about the group, at least Kenny took others with him on the RV that saved their lives so he has already showed that he'll help others unlike Lilly.
Lilly never cared about anybody else but her dad. Her stabbing the group in the back and leaving them all to die indicates this and Clementine knows what she did was betray them as well as witnessing Lilly killing Carley/Doug in cold blood not to mention saw how much of a raging lunatic Lilly is. At least she saw the good with Kenny from Duck and depending what Christa told him, him trying to save Ben or saved her, put a good light on him. Besides, if she was put off by Kenny then why did she smile when she saw him? And Clementine knows that Lilly was the one that put a wedge in the group when she killed the kindest useful member of the group.
It's completely banal to say she didn't care about the group. You'd have to have completely ignored everything she said in order to get that stance. Either that or you just played so deliberately pro-Kenny that you only ever saw the side where she's nasty to you and never saw her actually working hard to take care of the group. Especially the kids. And her not saying she felt regret does not mean she felt it. She wasn't really talking that whole time. She shut down after she killed Carley. If she had felt no remorse, she'd have been her usual self and she absolutely wasn't.
Larry was not dead yet. And it's really beside the point given that on the train, if you let Kenny have his way, Duck eats EVERYONE. You can't defend Kenny for "making a hard decision" when he totally drops the ball later on. He hated Larry, and that played into why he killed him, in addition to the panic. And no, you can't say that Clem understands that Kenny was killing a dead guy since not only did everyone see his mouth move to say something, but Lee and Lilly both were telling Kenny that Larry was alive. Clementine knows that Larry was alive when he was killed. You can't exactly twist that.
Kenny had no reason to do what he did, same as Lilly. It was two people in absolutely horrible situations making rash decisions. That's kind of the point of the two characters and why they butted heads so often; they're very similar people, with the caveat that Kenny cared about his family more than the group, and Lilly cared more about the group than any individual member excluding the kids.
When did anyone ever say they stayed by the Everett family store and pharmacy just so she could get meds for her dad? That sounds like a contrivance to me. All of Lilly's behavior was that of someone trying to protect their group. And yeah, she loved her dad and wanted to protect him even though he was a huge asshole. Speaking as someone with such a dad, it's still hard for me not to love the guy, despite him being absolutely cruel at times.
Again, you haven't proved that at all. It's conjecture based upon an unfounded contrivance. She was trying to protect the group against someone else who stabbed the group in the back, ie Ben, who, while a tragic fuck-up, was still at fault. Kenny trying to save Ben was supposed to be a character development, up until it's revealed in season 2 that he didn't use a bullet to put Ben out of his misery at all and instead ran for his life. So yeah, noble hero he ain't. Clem smiled because he was a familiar face. I've had instances of seeing someone I used to be friends with back during my school years, who I don't get along with now, and we smile at each other before we remember we hate each others' guts. Same deal. And since I don't guess you knew, there's a dialogue option for Clementine to say that she never liked Kenny (which I took). It's if you sit with Luke and co instead of Kenny, Sarita, and Matthew.
Lilly and Kenny are meant to be mirrors of each other. Brash, hard-headed, and well meaning people who make awful decisions at critical points. You cannot defend what Kenny did to Larry if you slam Lilly for what she did to Doug/Carley. Me, I don't defend either of them. I understand what happened, and I don't know what kind of judgment I would support being passed on either of them.
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um whats does your avatar resemble
It's Shepard and kaidan from mass effect
why?
Lilly wasn't keeping anybody at the motel. Kenny was staying because he wanted Lee to leave her behind and would be left with no one but the gangly shit for brains without him. Remember, Kenny said that if Lilly wanted to stay, then that's the way it is. He could have left at any time. They all could have. That's not on Lilly just because she was dead set on staying. She doesn't have power over their lives.
Also, pretending to be friendly? That's what's known as seriously reaching for anything to make your point. We don't know the context, but there's literally zero reason to assume Lilly was faking any kind of sincerity. Lilly clearly had an affection, or at the very least, a protectiveness for Clementine. Giving her hair thingies, reassuring Lee she would keep Clementine safe, worrying about Clementine getting sick...
Again, she didn't keep anybody there. Everyone has the ability to make their own decisions. And she protected the group by handling the rations because nobody else wanted to, holding gun training for everyone, keeping watch, saving Lee's life twice (determinant), being instrumental in saving everybody from the bandit stand-off, and fighting them back the whole time.
I don't deny she had her faults in her leadership as well, giving special consideration to Larry over everyone else and such. But she stepped up to the job when she had to, which we can easily piece together based on the information the characters share.
Of course not when you disagree with her. Kenny's a prick too when you disagree with him. But the fact that that side of her exists shows she's not in constant bitch-mode all the time.
And I never said it made her any less guilty. What it does do, however, is paint her decision in an entirely different light than murdering someone and grinning about it or having a good time like a certain weirdo in a certain DLC. I can't emphasize enough that she was wrong. But I maintain that it wasn't an act of evil. Malice, most certainly, in Carley's case. But not because she wants to watch the damn world burn.
No, she drew wild accusations because she was losing her mind. That's not a defense, but an explanation. There's nothing to suggest she didn't like Carley prior to this. That's just fan speculation. I'm certainly not suggesting they were friends, mind you, but there was no personal vendetta here. Or if there is supposed to be, then TellTale didn't make that clear at all, or just whipped something out because they were out of ideas.
Actually, Danny St. John did. He's the one I tend to think of when it comes to those psychos. But you're right, most of them weren't cackling villains. However, the situations remain different. Lilly "didn't care" because she thought she was in the right. Remember that Doug's death horrifies her and she apologizes. Of course, that doesn't fix what she did and she's still guilty, but that proves right there that Lilly is capable of caring more than the Stranger or the St. Johns about fellow human beings. But with Carley, she thought she had done right. Her reasoning was wrong, but she didn't do it because she was an evil monster, no matter how often people try to paint her as one to me.
The fact that you already have this fantasy in your head where she's just playing with Clem's emotions or something by pretending to be friendly doesn't give you much credibility on this aspect.
Yes, I do, because her reaction to the news is clearly not an attempt to take a shot at Kenny. She's legitimately shocked at the revelation that Kenny was planning to leave her out there like bait. I'm sure people will try and say that's just her being manipulative, but that's just silly. She could see everything eroding around her, just like Katjaa being horrified with who Kenny was becoming.
"And for the record, Kenny wanted to leave those people behind." Lee doesn't seem to think so. But hey, I actually agree on that point. Nothing Kenny says (that I can remember, anyway) indicates that he wanted to leave them behind, only when too much time has passed and ammo is running low. However, also note that Kenny was good and ready to let the woman die even before she got bitten. When she was still only screaming for help, in one dialogue choice, Kenny is seen clearly formulating the idea to leave her behind, so it's not a matter of "We can't save her, let's go".
I never said he was heartless or evil either. How could I, if I don't think Lilly is either? I said that the two actions are just as horrible from a purely moralistic standpoint, and they are. We can go back and forth on the details until Maybelle comes home, but both were actions of the coldest kind of logic there is. Period.
No, that's not what I said. I said that Kenny is nothing like the saint people paint him as sometimes, as a bro who's always there through and through. No matter how you look at it, he puts himself before Clementine in that situation, and it's just as shitty as Lilly abandoning the group. Lilly actually comes through just as much as Kenny does and is just as grateful... up until she makes her mistake. Her mindset when she leaves is that nothing good will come from being in the group any longer.
And yet the fact that Lilly shows genuine care towards Lee when you say "No" to her request contradicts that entirely. Yes, she abandoned him, I got that. But she could have just shoved him out right then and there. But she speaks softly and tells him she's not going to hurt him. Her care is painfully apparent, but her sense of self-preservation wins out. Bare in mind that I'm not defending her actions here. I've already said her leaving is pure selfishness. I disagree that it's a matter of evil or Lilly flat out not caring one iota. It's simply not that black and white in my mind.
In essence, it's actually the same thing Lee was planning to do to Ben and David/Travis back at the motor Inn. "Send them out on their own, I couldn't care less". We all know they wouldn't have survived, so Lee basically condemned them to death. Yes, we know Lee is flawed, but by and large, people tend to refer to him as a guy with a good, strong moral compass. But self-preservation and the preservation of those you care about at the expense of others are not too unlike each other. But it doesn't always have to make it an act of evil.