Why do people favor Kenny so much over Lily?
I honestly don't understand why the fan base has so much hatred built up towards Lilly, but not Kenny? Kenny did a lot of shitty things, even more than Lilly did.
I don't hate either of them and I think they were just both scared at the end of the day, and they tried to protect the ones they loved. They just happened to deal with their issues in different ways. It just really irritates me when people defend Kenny and talk about how much they hate Lilly. Lilly tended to be more loyal to the group, where Kenny only looked out for his family a majority of time. Honestly, if Kenny was put in the same situation Lilly was put in, he would have driven off with the van as well, because he just tended to be selfish.
I just think people need to stop hating Lilly so much, but that's just my personal opinion I don't know heck.
Comments
it's just a matter of opinion i guess and i think it has something to do with lilly shooting carley and the whole thing about larry being an asshole to lee
Kenny and Lilly have both committed horrendous crimes... the one and ONLY reason people like Kenny over Lilly is because Lilly killed someone who was close to them.
I bet half of them wouldn't bat an eye if it was Ben who got killed.
Anyway, they are more or less justified in that sense, but Kenny did the exact same thing: He killed Larry based on, arguably, a hunch. Lilly had to live with that and she tried her best to move on.
If you side with Kenny throughout the entire game, he'll be your best friend to the end. Granted, refusing to participate in a rescue mission for a little girl because you didn't help him demolish an old guy in front of his daughter is real douche material, but it's still determinant.
But no matter what you do, Lily will expose your secret to the entire group in episode 3, apparently because she just wanted to drag someone else down to hell with her.
Hell, wouldn't you do the same in her shoes? You do something you think is justified, yet is punished for it.
She's not justified, but she thought she was.
Uh...no, not really.
Well, she is the last one who knows your secret, She's about to be kicked out/taken aboard, so she feels the need to say one last thing before she leaves. Lee would have never share his secret otherwise (at least in the Doug scenario). The group has the right to know either way.
Kenny-Lilly debates all over the place.
Kenny was only antagonistic to the player depending upon their choices, whereas Lilly was scripted to be antagonistic in the grand scheme of the narrative.
Lee, our avatar, had far more interaction with Kenny than Lilly, deadening Kenny's misdeeds to an extent; moreover, they were given room to be excused, generally.
Lilly murdered a highly likable character in the heat of the moment, either scenario, accidental or not. Kenny killed Larry, a very divisive character, out of fear, the antecedent to his do-or-die action.
Cynically speaking, Lilly lacks memetic facial hair for people to warm up to.
Like Robert Morgan said above, even though Kenny can be a really selfish asshole, if you have his back (A LOT) he'll have yours. Lilly throws you under the bus no matter what you've done for her. But I think it's also that the last time we see Lilly, she's either just killed a fellow group member and close friend, or stolen the group's only transportation AFTER killing said group member earlier. Even though Kenny is still an ass, the last time we saw him in Season 1 he nearly lost his life either mercy killing Ben or saving Christa. Sure, he didn't actually die, but those were still heroic actions. Lilly never had the chance to make up for the bad things she did to the group, while Kenny did. At least, that's why I think more people like Kenny than Lilly at the moment.
even before episode 3, there's problems. Lilly had no plan beyond "let's sit and wait for someone to save us, or this whole thing to blow over." kenny had a plan, sure it wasn't very original, but it was proactive. lilly had her points, but after the farm, losing her dad, and then supplies going missing, she started to really the feel the pressure. not even including larry's death, while her reasons were sound, following her advice would have and/or did end badly each time, and i think it got to her. as a leader, being wrong that many times starts messing with ya. that's what i didn't like about her, though i did still like her, even after she jacked the RV. she wasnt leader material, but she did what she could.
kenny's plan had a bunch of flaws, which you start to see as soon as you leave the motel in episode 3. there was no step 2. he says the RV wouldn't get more than another 30 miles or somethin when lilly takes it, and i doubt that would have changed just because he was driving it. they would have been stranded, with no food, water, and little supplies if they hadn't found the train and chuck. kenny always acted yet rarely thought about other people when he acted, until it was too late. the only time he showed good insight was at the barn in episode 2, and then he blows it when you say what you found and he treats you like you're joking.. every other time, unless you kept him happy, he'd fight you every step of the way, even on things that were the right thing to do. aside from his determinant base attitude at times, he felt more like a normal person, which made him likable, but it was those same traits that some found endearing that made others dislike him. i liked kenny as well, but... i think what lee said to clem about ben could apply here, "i'm not leaving you with him, i'm leaving him with you." kenny means well, but he needs a person he respects to look out for him, to try and keep him in line.
just my thoughts.
There are a lot of reasons yo dislike Lilly (and Kenny) but the main reason boils down to the fact that Lilly killed someone people liked.
People like Kenny better than Lilly for the same reasons people like Jesus Christ more than Adolf Hitler: Superior facial hair and a cleaner soul.
In all seriousness though Lilly is filth and people who get upset over her being hated and Kenny not usually throw out weirdly unverified statements like "Kenny is selfish" or "Lilly cares more about the group" which is like RT/Vladimir Putin propaganda levels of disingenuous.
Day 1, Kenny and his family were arguably nice to both Lee and Clementine. Lilly and her dad wanted to kick the whole lot of them back on to the streets with the walkers. Did I mention Larry tried to leave Lee for the dead and she didn't even react? So....
I think it's because Lilly ended up killing a fan favourite character rather irrationally.
Everyone loved Carley.
Not a lot of people cared for Larry. (Except me ;_;)
Yeah first impressions and humour.
Kenny didn't shoot my LI in the face.
I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying about the whole situation, but when I played the game, sticking to what I would do in the situation, I found it really hard to side with Kenny over everything.
Honestly they're both just not the best of people.
I honestly think Larry could have been a very interesting character if we got to see more of him!! It sorta bums me out that a lot of people who play the game tend to look at characters from how they present themselves, opposed to the character as a whole. (If that makes any sense..) It honestly really upsets me how much the fan base shits all over Ben, and yeah, he did some stupid things, but it's not like he actually meant what he was doing. He wasn't purposely doing any of that, he was just a kid who was scared and who was trying to survive. Sure he wasn't the most useful character, but I find myself feeling sorry for him before I hate him..
Kind of went different for me.
Lilly: I'm a murderer!?! You've had Lee with you this whole time!
Kenny: I don't care what he did before!
Lilly: You know?
Kenny: Yeah, he told me- and I don't give a shit.
thats funny pls entertain me some more.. on a side not, im not saying lilly doesnt have character flaws, she really does, and thats part of the reason why i like her. im not saying i dont like kenny, because i like him too?? lilly tried to look out what was best for the group, and kenny more so only wanted what was the best for his family. which is completely understandable!! lilly did have moments where she was selfish as well, and im not going to deny her flaws. it just bugs me when a ton of people love kenny, but shove aside every shitty thing he did.
I completely agree with all of this!!
That's understandable to dislike her for killing off a very like able character, but I feel like she showed signs of regret, and fear afterwards. It was most likely a heat of the moment type of situation.. (Also, I'm totally not trying to justify her actions, what she did was wrong and that scene made me pretty upset with her.).....
Lilly's plan for the group was to freeze to death as their supplies dwindle and they suffer continuous bandit attacks, attacks which would assuredly get worse as inclement weather would drive them out of the forests to seek shelter.
The complaints about Kenny usually revolve around or stem from the fact that he's "rude" or was mean to Lee when Lee did stupid, sentimental, emotion based things that actually DID threaten the group. Either that or they enter into weird equivalency arguments to say that Kenny's just as bad as Lilly, which is laughable, or use omniscient knowledge or 20/20 hindsight to say that Kenny should have tried something that wouldn't occur to the group in the first place.
There is no actual content to much of their arguments.
Exactly, no regret, at least Kenny apologized for killing Larry and explained why he did it.
Yeah that is true. Neither of the plans were really a good idea, because it's just not that smart to pack up and leave, trying to find a new shelter for a whole group. It's also not good to stay and freeze to death. Which is why I had a really hard time trying to side on that argument. You do have a good point. ..
Good point.
Im guessing because we spent so much more time with him.
I never got a feeling of respect from Kenny, with Lilly, you can disagree with her and she will disagree and explain her point of view. She made it feel like your opinion mattered.
With Kenny, your opinion holds no weight unless you agree with him. He will tell you you're outright wrong when you express your opinion. No other situation shows this better than the meat locker scene. Both you and Lilly say hes going to live, that you cant kill a living man, he ignores you because he doesnt trust or respect you and so takes actions into his own hands.
Pretty much this. I have sympathy for both, but in the end both Kenny and Lilly did some pretty horrible things.
Although, playing the way I would if I were in the situation, I found it hard to side with LILLY in most situations. Which, I suppose, is why I like Kenny more. I even got the bro speech on my first playthrough.
it's not respect in a traditional sense. think more like a rivalry. yes, if you keep siding with him, he's your best bud, but even if you constantly disagree with him, you could be the biggest ass possible to him, and he'll still include you in his plans. he may not help when you initially ask to help find clem unless you appeal to the family man in him, but even if he doesn't go, he's still willing to wait for you. that is what i view as respect. kenny can be a complicated guy.
in the meat locker, he does what he feels is right, whether or not anyone else agrees. he may have been wrong, he may not have been, but he acted. sure, there could have been other options, but he felt threatened and acted for the good of the group, not because he hated larry or lilly, but because if larry did die, he might have killed everyone else. season 1 was full of good intentions and wrong choices.
All right, ive got 6 major reasons why people hate Lilly, scroll to the last one if you want to give me a dislike as youre probably part of that majority.
The sixth reason is its own can of worms thats only partially related to the others and this is where I get thumbed down for people being pathetic. Lovesick puppies over Carley, the cartoon video game character. Men with so little intimacy in their lives that they attach themselves to the fictional character that fawns over Lee regardless of what he does.
The sixth reason happens to be my favorite.
I think the hate has a lot to do with who the player saved in episode 1. If Carley is saved, Lily gets into a vicious argument with her and ultimately kills her in a fit of rage, seemingly without a twinge of remorse. On the other hand, if you save Doug, her the things she says on the RV make it clear that she cares for, or at least respects Doug. When he takes the bullet for Ben, Lilly is clearly horrified by what just happened. Attempting to kill Ben on a hunch was wrong, but possibly forgivable.
Most people, however, chose to save Carley and therefore watched Lily murder an innocent woman for disagreeing with her, totally unforgivable no matter the circumstances. This is what happened on my first playthrough, and it definitely hardened my negative view of Lilly.
lilly was ok at first, but then she got to be really stupid when ben stole supplies, i knew it was ben the whole time, but then she freaking shot carly which made me think, what if she kills me, (lee), if i don't side with her? or kenny or any one else. therefore, i thought she would be a danger to the group. and kenny isn't a murderer..soo umm yeah.. XD
Again, I kept disagreeing with him, so more and more he would just show he only traveled with me because he believed it was safer. He says it himself in Macon if you tell him we should split up "I swear Id go on my own if I didnt think it was suicide". From then on, I only felt he was with me because it was for his benefit (and beforehand actually, but that statement further cemented it).
In the meat locker, he might have done what he felt is right, but he still CLEARLY doesnt trust Lee's opinion enough to follow his lead. If Lee says Larry will live, then Kenny should listen. For Kenny though, its a one way conversation, he expects you to listen to him, not vice versa.
snicker i guess he proved himself wrong showing up in season 2 then, didn't he?
that's what makes it a rivalry. how could you feel safe around a person that you hated, constantly disagreed with you, and that had either told you he was a murderer or that somebody said he was, and then keep doing stuff together? despite all of it, he still had a degree of trust/respect for Lee. it may not have been enough to actually change his mind, but there was still something there.
Well put.
Because Lilly only seemed capable of complaining. She claimed to be some great leader but had the position jacked by Lee and Kenny, she couldn't even handle the slightest stress without losing her mind (here, YOU feed everyone today maniacal grin). Just completely volatile, up to the moment she just up and shoots Carley in the face without batting an eye. Oh, and her dad nearly turned me into walker bait before Kenny showed up and saved my life.
Kenny really was a friend for Lee.
Wow way to be a dick with your sweeping generalizations. "Men with so little intimacy in their lives..." really? I have a wife and a kid and I still love Carley. And I'm pretty sure tons of ladies like her as well.
Now now dont feel guilty, women and i am pretty sure everyone has the same problem too.
I am in love with Luke ;(
cries in the corner