I think its mostly out of the think that both of them were asshole's in the S1 but there so counter parts like:
Kenny: EP1. Is always by your side, if you dont save his kid, he actually offers you that ride to Macon, they went out of Gas and got attack, the went to the Drugstore and this "new group" start to give you S#¡t for being there (Lilly & Larry), ok then... all the thing go down and went they need to rush way out after helping him with his heart problem "super Larry" punch you to leave you dead right there and there Kenny to save you outputting that he wouldnt leave anyone Specially a good friend to die!. Ep2, you went out hunting and when you save Ben and his teacher hi actually doesnt throws you S#¡t for decide to save those people and defend your choice even with the unpleasent moment went all over again Lilly & Larry, throws s#¡ts about it for do that... give her wife in disposition of making something that they didnt know but it was dangerous to leave his wife with someone near to death and turning to a Walker... then he was the one that get suspicious of the farm family (& he was right) and after risk his wife & son to them he actually still talk's to you that make that choice of going there without any information of them... yeah! Kenny kill Larry or you help to do it.... but sure... Larry had a stroke maybe he could live after that maybe he wont... but it was a risk to have a 200 pounds Walker in that fridge with them.. so either way he just lose it.. and only care about the only one's that was in trouble in that moment his family!. Ep3. before this episode he actually offers you to go with him in the RV and offers to you again after all that happend, he obviously are piss of what happend and when he gets some asshole treat to Lee.. Scavengers attack and he procure to wait EVERYONE including Psico-Lilly in the RV to go... He decide to tell you about his son! that got bit (Respect for that) and in her concern yeah... he lose it a bit more... He wasnt go to approve the undenial near death of his son (who would accept it?) and acts again like trash even fight with you (if you let him / cause you can just kick his ass to get to stop the train) lose his wife & his son obviously lose it mind but he only think's of the plan to get ALL survive. Ep4. - Ep5. Even though he lose his mind he just keep alive to give you something to do to keep everyone alive (he drinks, acts like douchebag, and other bad responses for him) but never let you go by your own... he never abandon the group or lee, and even wasnt a danger for the group in big scale just wasnt any easy for him all that happend and even in his last time in the season he sacrifices him self to help someone (Ben / Christa) for much as we know in that moment, He just hero himself in a heroic act of saving someone putting his own life at risk.
Lilly: Ep1. You meet her and her father, and the first thing they do is treat you like S#¡t, claiming that the Zombie Appocalypse its only Lee & Kenny's Fault (over exageration... but yeah they were in bad mood since the beggining), then his father has a stroke... and who was her asking to help her? the man that she was b¡tc#¡ng around.... ok we help her and her father only to hear a tha...n.... lets get those pills... and the yeah... Larry punch us on the face to die.... you get save by Kenny, and all over again Larry went threaten you with your past, Lilly give you the real thank's.. but b¡tc#'s you around about Glen leaving... Ep2. you make a choice to save a student and a teacher that were harmfull... but Noooooooo. she went bossing around saying that you cant do that beacause... just because! she try to give you a lesson giving you 4 portion of food to 10 people... 11 if you count the teacher... (ok I know she was trying to protect the group yeah... actually she got a bit of right among that... but all over again... Ben & his teacher were harmfull, and are innocent people that doesnt deserve to die just because....) no matter what you do she give you a speech of how bad is being the bad one and the tought choice maker..... then she and her father... in a good way try to stay polite with the farm family (Larry most of them) but hey... they were wrong about the psyco farm family.... and then Larry gets kill... she obviously have her reason to be upset about eveything.... at this moment... Ep3. Lilly get the suspicious of someone betraying the group... all though she was right... she lose it allot to only scream about it... and even doubt about herself thinks... you back her up... prove to her... the Scavenger's attack... she in some way helps to get out of the mess... and then... she totally lose it... start to pointing at anyone that she want just to know a "truth" that doesnt matter at all... the group lost the motel.... they just need to find another location... to survive.. but NOOOOO she went crazy and kill one of the group for NO reason at all more that her drama queen act... (in Carley saves she kill the possible Lee partner/relationship that all of us know that would happen is she not get kill by Lilly.... / in Doug saves she kill a valuable friend and part of the group that know about almost everything to help the group safety)... and if you take Lilly with you after she Kill's someone withouth a good reason (her depresion could be manage in other ways than that) she steals the only thing that the group had for trasportation & safety by the moment... and even though she always said that she will prefer to stay at the motel than leave in that crumpy RV.... (Giving us a reason to think that yeah maybe she lose it for Larry's death... but other than that she wasnt manage to know what to do in hard situation's other than Kill, Scream & Steal)
So anyhow... Kenny could be a jerk but loyal Friend, & Lilly well... Lilly just was made to survive by herself caring just for her... thats why I think people feel more attach to Kenny than Lilly's
The funny thing Ive noticed is that the majority of those who like Kenny, or Lily, kind of think they are obligated to hate the other one. I like both. I would fucking love to have Lily in the group aswell along with Kenny.
Kenny killed Larry because he was a threat to them all in that small room, they had no chance against him because they had no weapons if he turns, Carley or Doug was no danger at all against Lilly, and if you side with Kenny most of Season 1 he will back you up no matter what, even if I believed Lilly if food supplies were gone, she will still giving Lee a hard time, sorry but she deserved to be left on the road.
You can like Carley as a character, sure, but there are a LOT of people that practically threatened suicide because Carley died. Also, pretty much anyone that just assumes Lilly killed Carley rather than Doug fall into this category.
Wow way to be a dick with your sweeping generalizations. "Men with so little intimacy in their lives..." really? I have a wife and a kid and I still love Carley. And I'm pretty sure tons of ladies like her as well.
Offing Larry was justified, true. But doing it in that way was just brutal. Imagine if Lee brained Duck with a wrench while Kenny and Kat were still discussing what to do with him. Kenny probably would have snapped a little too.
Kenny killed Larry because he was a threat to them all in that small room, they had no chance against him because they had no weapons if he … moreturns, Carley or Doug was no danger at all against Lilly, and if you side with Kenny most of Season 1 he will back you up no matter what, even if I believed Lilly if food supplies were gone, she will still giving Lee a hard time, sorry but she deserved to be left on the road.
When you first meet Lily and the others, Larry accuses Duck of being bitten and that they should kill him and Lily doesn't help. When they're in the meat locker and Larry has another heart attack, the whole group knows that they have to do something about it. He was a big strong man and would have been very difficult to deal with if he turned. Yet no matter who kills him, Lily hates you for it. Yet she didn't seem to upset about a small child being killed.
She does speak up against him and it never got to the point where they were going to throw him out. Lilly doesnt hate you for Kenny killing Larry and she also admits somberly that she disagreed with Larry when you talk to her in the pharmacy.
When you first meet Lily and the others, Larry accuses Duck of being bitten and that they should kill him and Lily doesn't help. When they'r… moree in the meat locker and Larry has another heart attack, the whole group knows that they have to do something about it. He was a big strong man and would have been very difficult to deal with if he turned. Yet no matter who kills him, Lily hates you for it. Yet she didn't seem to upset about a small child being killed.
Offing Larry was justified, true. But doing it in that way was just brutal. Imagine if Lee brained Duck with a wrench while Kenny and Kat were still discussing what to do with him. Kenny probably would have snapped a little too.
Exactly. Kenny has his flaws as well, but I don't think they outweigh his good ones. I feel like his heart is in the right place, and he genuinely cares for other people and wants to help them out. With Lilly, I'm not too sure.
Because Lilly only seemed capable of complaining. She claimed to be some great leader but had the position jacked by Lee and Kenny, she cou… moreldn't even handle the slightest stress without losing her mind (here, YOU feed everyone today maniacal grin). Just completely volatile, up to the moment she just up and shoots Carley in the face without batting an eye. Oh, and her dad nearly turned me into walker bait before Kenny showed up and saved my life.
Kenny really was a friend for Lee.
I love Carley a lot? I think what the OP was trying to say was that a lot of people who like Carley are just fanboys who only wanted her as a love interest and It's pretty dumb.
Wow way to be a dick with your sweeping generalizations. "Men with so little intimacy in their lives..." really? I have a wife and a kid and I still love Carley. And I'm pretty sure tons of ladies like her as well.
Yeah that's true! Honestly Kenny really hated my Lee but I just tried to do what I felt was right. I'm sure I'd like Kenny a lot more if I just constantly took his side over everything.
Because Lilly only seemed capable of complaining. She claimed to be some great leader but had the position jacked by Lee and Kenny, she cou… moreldn't even handle the slightest stress without losing her mind (here, YOU feed everyone today maniacal grin). Just completely volatile, up to the moment she just up and shoots Carley in the face without batting an eye. Oh, and her dad nearly turned me into walker bait before Kenny showed up and saved my life.
Kenny really was a friend for Lee.
The funny thing Ive noticed is that the majority of those who like Kenny, or Lily, kind of think they are obligated to hate the other one. I like both. I would fucking love to have Lily in the group aswell along with Kenny.
Laughs loudly because a lot of people are shitting on me for no reason.
I said I liked both of the characters and I'm being respectful of other people's opinions. Wow really some people need to stop being whiny babies.
I notice you neglected to post the scene where Kenny basically plans to abandon Lee and Clem, just because Lee got (justifiably) pissed with Kenny's shit and told him to go fuck himself. "Don't expect me to wait for you. Once we get that boat out onto the water, we're gone." Thanks for stopping him Vernon!
And you also forgot the scene where Lilly reassures Lee that killing the senator doesn't make him a bad person. Or where she saves Lee twice from the St. Johns.
Point is, both characters have flaws and it's fine to hate them, but let's try not to be ignorant and imply that one is an irredeemable devil and the other is some kind of saint. Honestly, I have a love/hate thing going with both Lilly and Kenny.
The funny thing Ive noticed is that the majority of those who like Kenny, or Lily, kind of think they are obligated to hate the other one. I like both. I would fucking love to have Lily in the group aswell along with Kenny.
I notice you neglected to post the scene where Kenny basically plans to abandon Lee and Clem, just because Lee got (justifiably) pissed with… more Kenny's shit and told him to go fuck himself. "Don't expect me to wait for you. Once we get that boat out onto the water, we're gone." Thanks for stopping him Vernon!
And you also forgot the scene where Lilly reassures Lee that killing the senator doesn't make him a bad person. Or where she saves Lee twice from the St. Johns.
Point is, both characters have flaws and it's fine to hate them, but let's try not to be ignorant and imply that one is an irredeemable devil and the other is some kind of saint. Honestly, I have a love/hate thing going with both Lilly and Kenny.
Kenny, killed a man because he was worried that he would turn.
Kenny has done shitty things too. And I generally have a soft spot for flawed characters. Primarily Lee, no matter how good you make him, he will always have the blood on the senator on his hands before you took control of him. I doesn't hurt to mention that Kenny done more FOR Lee and Clementine than Lilly ever did. I always saw Lilly as an antagonist even. I always found her to have just a negative aura around her, only time I ever warmed up to her was when she supported Lee after I told her I killed before (I tried to save Larry) but even that didn't last too long. At least Kenny could be funny from time to time.
I'm expecting downvotes for this but I honestly was never too fond of Lilly at all. If she returns as a proper antagonist I'll be intrigued, but I will never miss her. She was memorable yes, but I don't want to see her again.
Kenny only looked out for his family a majority of time.
What exactly is the problem with that? In a world where you can get eaten at any moment and almost no one else can be trusted, it only seems right to look out for your family most of the time. Kenny might have gone mad when his family died, but that's an understandable reaction. Hell, even Lilly seemed to have gone mad herself, and would have even gone madder than Kenny had she went along with us until the end of season 1.
I stood by the idea that both ended up doing terrible things, despite not being inherently bad. For me, Lilly murdered a friend in a state of mental instability and left, while Kenny murdered a group member out of desperation and considered leaving me to die out of spite.
But while I may not have personally gotten a sense of loyalty from Kenny, he has the benefit of more screentime and potentially leaving Lee on a more redemptive note.
Lilly, shot a woman because she was angry.
Kenny, killed a man because he was worried that he would turn.
Kenny has done shitty things… more too. And I generally have a soft spot for flawed characters. Primarily Lee, no matter how good you make him, he will always have the blood on the senator on his hands before you took control of him. I doesn't hurt to mention that Kenny done more FOR Lee and Clementine than Lilly ever did. I always saw Lilly as an antagonist even. I always found her to have just a negative aura around her, only time I ever warmed up to her was when she supported Lee after I told her I killed before (I tried to save Larry) but even that didn't last too long. At least Kenny could be funny from time to time.
I'm expecting downvotes for this but I honestly was never too fond of Lilly at all. If she returns as a proper antagonist I'll be intrigued, but I will never miss her. She was memorable yes, but I don't want to see her again.
You can like Carley as a character, sure, but there are a LOT of people that practically threatened suicide because Carley died. Also, pretty much anyone that just assumes Lilly killed Carley rather than Doug fall into this category.
I notice you neglected to post the scene where Kenny basically plans to abandon Lee and Clem, just because Lee got (justifiably) pissed with… more Kenny's shit and told him to go fuck himself. "Don't expect me to wait for you. Once we get that boat out onto the water, we're gone." Thanks for stopping him Vernon!
And you also forgot the scene where Lilly reassures Lee that killing the senator doesn't make him a bad person. Or where she saves Lee twice from the St. Johns.
Point is, both characters have flaws and it's fine to hate them, but let's try not to be ignorant and imply that one is an irredeemable devil and the other is some kind of saint. Honestly, I have a love/hate thing going with both Lilly and Kenny.
Who cares about Lily stealing the van, the issue is her cold-blooded murder of sweet innocent Carley...
I somewhat sympathized with Lily before that, but if I'd had a choice I'd have had Lee shoot her for that. Simply unforgivable. The scenario where she killed Doug seemed more accidental but with Carley it was premeditated.
Her actions pretty much negated any value she had in looking out for the group, besides her plan to stay was foolishly short-sighted and more risky than she seemed to realize, staying put anywhere is risky but a place out in the open like that is plain stupid. They were starting to starve already and she wanted to winter there?
By comparison Kenny is somewhat inconsiderate and reckless, but I generally agree with his pragmatic side and I find him fairly trustworthy. Granted, Kenny's plan was pretty bad as well, but not the worst.
A lot of reasons. I'm honestly neutral on this, though I liked both as characters. Let me try to put this into perspective.
Lee meets Kenny first, and at the time, he seems nice enough, and though he runs away from trying to save Shawn, he gives you a ride. When you first meet Lily, she's giving Carley shit for saving you. Arguably, both are not very reliable at this point, when it comes to you. However, despite this, Lee knows Kenny from before, and the first thing he learns about Lily is that she was not willing to help him. Then, Larry starts giving you shit (Big point #1) about Duck being bitten before checking for a bite. This makes you despise Larry, and due to his and Lily's connection, she isn't too happy with you after you inevitably shout him down into submission. Larry's asshole tendencies last throughout his appearance, and so Lily is biased against any negative action you take against him (which there are a few situations for, most importantly the meat locker). Thus, the player probably starts associating Lily's care for her father as a negative quality. Consciously they probably understand, but not on an emotional level. Kenny's family, on the other hand, consists of Duck, who is a child and is parallel to Clementine, and Katjaa, one of the kindest people in the group. Episode 2 consists of bringing Ben and an injured person to camp (devoid of much food) a decision the player had to choose in the heat of the moment, and Lily criticizes the action (understandably, pragmatically, but still hurtful and cold), while Kenny defends your choice. Later on, Kenny and Lily both are wary of the St. Johns, but most importantly, Kenny makes you take action and discovers the butchery room with you. During this time, you have memorable moments with him, such as the swing, and the 'urban' moment. Lily is on the sidelines, so you never get to bond with her. Finally, the decision to kill Larry. If you choose to save Larry, Kenny doesn't do shit for you, and Lily saves you while fighting Andy. If you get Larry killed, Lilly hates you for it, and acts cold forever. Since both cases can be argued against (though I'm pretty sure Kenny could have waited to make sure whether he'll reanimate or not, but in a stressful situation like that, I can cut him a little slack. Plus, if Larry came back in a rush, people could've gotten hurt).
Episode three. In the previous episode, depending on who you saved, Kenny will either be a dick or a bro, but Lily (whose father will be dead, headless regardless) is riddled with paranoia. In the situation that Lily isn't sided with, Lily will assume you're the thief if you don't come up with evidence. Plus, she's adamant at staying in a camp being close to a bandit camp, while Kenny wants to leave and is actively trying to go away. At this point, Lily is completely justified in having paranoia, and one can understand why she's being unreasonable, being emotionally unstable, but since all this while it was either Lilly or Kenny, people have the ability to 'side' with the more reasonable Kenny (Big Point #2).
Finally, on the road, comes Big Point #3. Depending on who you save at the Drug store, Carley or Doug dies. Now, majority of players chose Carley, and she's a much more involved character than Doug is. This majorly skews the opinions. Lily kills Carley with no visible regret or remorse, and blatantly out of nowhere. This is both a bullshit move, and the victim is possibly the character the player is the second most attached to. After that she steals the RV regardless of whatever, if you bring her with you. Otherwise, you let her run off, and never see her again. If you choose Doug, she tries to kill Ben instead and is very sad and upset with Doug's death, and so players are, while angry and shocked, are able to see it was (mostly) an accident. A terrible, terrible accident, and a still a rash move on Lily's part, but an accident all the same. Of course, most people on the forum chose Carley on their first playthroughs, and never see this.
This thing about point number 3 is that, and I don't know whether this was intentional on telltale's part or what, but based on who you save, Lily seems way different. She's a cold bitch in Carley's case, and a depressed, remorseful fuckup in Doug's. This is the answer for why the majority of people favour her less.
Big Point #4, Kenny loses his family soon, but there's nobody to blame, and his pain is personal to the player, since Duck and Katjaa are brilliant and likeable characters, and the pain creeps up slowly. Kenny has the most sad, depressing expression when Kat dies, when Duck has to be put down, and when he's in denial and on the train. We get much more time with Kenny's pain than with Lily's since there is a cut to weeks(?) later, while we go through the aftermath with Kenny. After this, when Kenny does shit, like act rashly with Molly, criticize Ben, leave Clementine alone as he drinks, focuses on the boat, and determinantly refuses to come with you to save Clem, the player has much more of an idea of his pain. Additionally, unlike in Lily's case, we have no 'opposite' to side with.
Big point #5. Kenny goes out in a blaze of glory. If you save Ben, he forgives him after Ben shouts at Kenny, revealing his own pain and troubles. Then, he saves him, sacrificing his life in the process. The player is experiencing the problem with him, and is at a point that losing one more person is too much. If Ben is not saved, he saves Christa. Either way, the last memory you have of him is heroic and brave (however stupid it may have been), while the Last memory of Lily is a sorrowful murder and possibly betrayal (if she steals the van).
All in all, I think a lot of the preference has to do with how Telltale portrayed her, what we got to see of her, her relation with us, the skewed Carley/Doug choice, the lack her presence for two episodes, and half of two others. I think they are both brilliantly written characters, but whether for better or worse, Lily was unfortunate enough to not be Lee's friend, have an asshole family, and be written differently based on a choice independent of her.
I would care if it had been Ben. And yes, Kenny killed Larry, but if Larry really was dead, then he would probably kill most, if not all of the people in the meatlocker. When Lilly killed Carley/Doug, they were already away from the bandits, and out of danger. They could have found out, who the traitor was, and then taken care of it. Maybe even without killing anyone.
Kenny and Lilly have both committed horrendous crimes... the one and ONLY reason people like Kenny over Lilly is because Lilly killed someon… moree who was close to them.
I bet half of them wouldn't bat an eye if it was Ben who got killed.
Anyway, they are more or less justified in that sense, but Kenny did the exact same thing: He killed Larry based on, arguably, a hunch. Lilly had to live with that and she tried her best to move on.
Never said you wouldn't, but I'm saying most people wouldn't have reacted so violently, I guarantee you that. Not saying all of you, but people had a more emotional connection with Doug/Carly.
But the punishment for such a crime is debatable. Kenny wanted to kill Ben when he found out he was the one who did it, which is no better than Lilly wanting to kill Ben/Carly.
I would care if it had been Ben. And yes, Kenny killed Larry, but if Larry really was dead, then he would probably kill most, if not all of … morethe people in the meatlocker. When Lilly killed Carley/Doug, they were already away from the bandits, and out of danger. They could have found out, who the traitor was, and then taken care of it. Maybe even without killing anyone.
A lot of reasons. I'm honestly neutral on this, though I liked both as characters. Let me try to put this into perspective.
Lee meets Ken… moreny first, and at the time, he seems nice enough, and though he runs away from trying to save Shawn, he gives you a ride. When you first meet Lily, she's giving Carley shit for saving you. Arguably, both are not very reliable at this point, when it comes to you. However, despite this, Lee knows Kenny from before, and the first thing he learns about Lily is that she was not willing to help him. Then, Larry starts giving you shit (Big point #1) about Duck being bitten before checking for a bite. This makes you despise Larry, and due to his and Lily's connection, she isn't too happy with you after you inevitably shout him down into submission. Larry's asshole tendencies last throughout his appearance, and so Lily is biased against any negative action you take against him (which there are a few situations for,… [view original content]
I fully agree, that Kenny wanting to kill Ben isn't good. But it is a bit better. Like a tiny little, very small bit better. The thing is, that Kenny knew, 100%, that Ben was the traitor. Lilly didn't. Ben was also indirectly cause in Kenny's family's death. Lilly hadn't lost more than anybody else because of Ben. So, I don't think it was right of Kenny to want to kill Ben, but it was a bit more understandable compared to Lilly
Never said you wouldn't, but I'm saying most people wouldn't have reacted so violently, I guarantee you that. Not saying all of you, but pe… moreople had a more emotional connection with Doug/Carly.
But the punishment for such a crime is debatable. Kenny wanted to kill Ben when he found out he was the one who did it, which is no better than Lilly wanting to kill Ben/Carly.
Well Doug/Carley were fully innocent and Lily didn't even have any proper clues pointing that way, whereas Ben had admitted guilt. Killing Ben would be far more justified and while killing him might be a slight overreaction it'd be understandable.
I'd say exiling him from the group would have been the right course of action, but as that wasn't an option I had Lee avoid saving him and then tell Clementine it had to be done. She seemed to take it pretty well.
Never said you wouldn't, but I'm saying most people wouldn't have reacted so violently, I guarantee you that. Not saying all of you, but pe… moreople had a more emotional connection with Doug/Carly.
But the punishment for such a crime is debatable. Kenny wanted to kill Ben when he found out he was the one who did it, which is no better than Lilly wanting to kill Ben/Carly.
Well, first of all, you can't expect somebody to put other people before their family, even if they are friends. Would you put some stranger you met in the apocalypse first if you had a family? I don't think so. Also, if you play it right, Kenny can offer Lee and Clementine a ride in the RV so Kenny is actually willing to take other people with him. I am going to say it once again, DON'T BLAME SOMEBODY FOR LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR FAMILY.
Well, first of all, you can't expect somebody to put other people before their family, even if they are friends. Would you put some stranger… more you met in the apocalypse first if you had a family? I don't think so. Also, if you play it right, Kenny can offer Lee and Clementine a ride in the RV so Kenny is actually willing to take other people with him. I am going to say it once again, DON'T BLAME SOMEBODY FOR LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR FAMILY.
Well, Kenny DOES leave Lee to die twice if he doesn't help kill Larry. I suppose it might be possible to argue away the incident with Danny, but leaving Lee under the door is just awful. His family was in no danger, and Kenny wasn't at all afraid. He made a conscious decision to leave Lee to die.
Well, first of all, you can't expect somebody to put other people before their family, even if they are friends. Would you put some stranger… more you met in the apocalypse first if you had a family? I don't think so. Also, if you play it right, Kenny can offer Lee and Clementine a ride in the RV so Kenny is actually willing to take other people with him. I am going to say it once again, DON'T BLAME SOMEBODY FOR LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR FAMILY.
Lilly killed Ben or the girl depending who you picked in 1. I was like son of a... they were so useful you just had to do it...
I hate kenny with a passion the things he did just ticked me off all the time no don't do that it's stupid screw you I'm doing it... Ok lets do that no screw you it's stupid. They used him to force you do things so you really didn't have much choice in what happens in the future at most it changes some of the chat which explains more or less of the backstory. Or they help you kill a zombie or say screw you came out fine. That was about it .
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I think its mostly out of the think that both of them were asshole's in the S1 but there so counter parts like:
Kenny: EP1. Is always by your side, if you dont save his kid, he actually offers you that ride to Macon, they went out of Gas and got attack, the went to the Drugstore and this "new group" start to give you S#¡t for being there (Lilly & Larry), ok then... all the thing go down and went they need to rush way out after helping him with his heart problem "super Larry" punch you to leave you dead right there and there Kenny to save you outputting that he wouldnt leave anyone Specially a good friend to die!. Ep2, you went out hunting and when you save Ben and his teacher hi actually doesnt throws you S#¡t for decide to save those people and defend your choice even with the unpleasent moment went all over again Lilly & Larry, throws s#¡ts about it for do that... give her wife in disposition of making something that they didnt know but it was dangerous to leave his wife with someone near to death and turning to a Walker... then he was the one that get suspicious of the farm family (& he was right) and after risk his wife & son to them he actually still talk's to you that make that choice of going there without any information of them... yeah! Kenny kill Larry or you help to do it.... but sure... Larry had a stroke maybe he could live after that maybe he wont... but it was a risk to have a 200 pounds Walker in that fridge with them.. so either way he just lose it.. and only care about the only one's that was in trouble in that moment his family!. Ep3. before this episode he actually offers you to go with him in the RV and offers to you again after all that happend, he obviously are piss of what happend and when he gets some asshole treat to Lee.. Scavengers attack and he procure to wait EVERYONE including Psico-Lilly in the RV to go... He decide to tell you about his son! that got bit (Respect for that) and in her concern yeah... he lose it a bit more... He wasnt go to approve the undenial near death of his son (who would accept it?) and acts again like trash even fight with you (if you let him / cause you can just kick his ass to get to stop the train) lose his wife & his son obviously lose it mind but he only think's of the plan to get ALL survive. Ep4. - Ep5. Even though he lose his mind he just keep alive to give you something to do to keep everyone alive (he drinks, acts like douchebag, and other bad responses for him) but never let you go by your own... he never abandon the group or lee, and even wasnt a danger for the group in big scale just wasnt any easy for him all that happend and even in his last time in the season he sacrifices him self to help someone (Ben / Christa) for much as we know in that moment, He just hero himself in a heroic act of saving someone putting his own life at risk.
Lilly: Ep1. You meet her and her father, and the first thing they do is treat you like S#¡t, claiming that the Zombie Appocalypse its only Lee & Kenny's Fault (over exageration... but yeah they were in bad mood since the beggining), then his father has a stroke... and who was her asking to help her? the man that she was b¡tc#¡ng around.... ok we help her and her father only to hear a tha...n.... lets get those pills... and the yeah... Larry punch us on the face to die.... you get save by Kenny, and all over again Larry went threaten you with your past, Lilly give you the real thank's.. but b¡tc#'s you around about Glen leaving... Ep2. you make a choice to save a student and a teacher that were harmfull... but Noooooooo. she went bossing around saying that you cant do that beacause... just because! she try to give you a lesson giving you 4 portion of food to 10 people... 11 if you count the teacher... (ok I know she was trying to protect the group yeah... actually she got a bit of right among that... but all over again... Ben & his teacher were harmfull, and are innocent people that doesnt deserve to die just because....) no matter what you do she give you a speech of how bad is being the bad one and the tought choice maker..... then she and her father... in a good way try to stay polite with the farm family (Larry most of them) but hey... they were wrong about the psyco farm family.... and then Larry gets kill... she obviously have her reason to be upset about eveything.... at this moment... Ep3. Lilly get the suspicious of someone betraying the group... all though she was right... she lose it allot to only scream about it... and even doubt about herself thinks... you back her up... prove to her... the Scavenger's attack... she in some way helps to get out of the mess... and then... she totally lose it... start to pointing at anyone that she want just to know a "truth" that doesnt matter at all... the group lost the motel.... they just need to find another location... to survive.. but NOOOOO she went crazy and kill one of the group for NO reason at all more that her drama queen act... (in Carley saves she kill the possible Lee partner/relationship that all of us know that would happen is she not get kill by Lilly.... / in Doug saves she kill a valuable friend and part of the group that know about almost everything to help the group safety)... and if you take Lilly with you after she Kill's someone withouth a good reason (her depresion could be manage in other ways than that) she steals the only thing that the group had for trasportation & safety by the moment... and even though she always said that she will prefer to stay at the motel than leave in that crumpy RV.... (Giving us a reason to think that yeah maybe she lose it for Larry's death... but other than that she wasnt manage to know what to do in hard situation's other than Kill, Scream & Steal)
So anyhow... Kenny could be a jerk but loyal Friend, & Lilly well... Lilly just was made to survive by herself caring just for her... thats why I think people feel more attach to Kenny than Lilly's
The funny thing Ive noticed is that the majority of those who like Kenny, or Lily, kind of think they are obligated to hate the other one. I like both. I would fucking love to have Lily in the group aswell along with Kenny.
Kenny killed Larry because he was a threat to them all in that small room, they had no chance against him because they had no weapons if he turns, Carley or Doug was no danger at all against Lilly, and if you side with Kenny most of Season 1 he will back you up no matter what, even if I believed Lilly if food supplies were gone, she will still giving Lee a hard time, sorry but she deserved to be left on the road.
Because Lilly killed Doug or Carley.
You can like Carley as a character, sure, but there are a LOT of people that practically threatened suicide because Carley died. Also, pretty much anyone that just assumes Lilly killed Carley rather than Doug fall into this category.
Offing Larry was justified, true. But doing it in that way was just brutal. Imagine if Lee brained Duck with a wrench while Kenny and Kat were still discussing what to do with him. Kenny probably would have snapped a little too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyjvxlQ4Y0k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDtGgE3E3Jo
It's a mystery!!!
When you first meet Lily and the others, Larry accuses Duck of being bitten and that they should kill him and Lily doesn't help. When they're in the meat locker and Larry has another heart attack, the whole group knows that they have to do something about it. He was a big strong man and would have been very difficult to deal with if he turned. Yet no matter who kills him, Lily hates you for it. Yet she didn't seem to upset about a small child being killed.
She does speak up against him and it never got to the point where they were going to throw him out. Lilly doesnt hate you for Kenny killing Larry and she also admits somberly that she disagreed with Larry when you talk to her in the pharmacy.
Well Lily shot Carley. End of the story. Stop making these discusions...
I don't say it was not brutal of course it was, but they had no other tool to kill him, I'd rather take no risk too if my life depends on it.
Exactly. Kenny has his flaws as well, but I don't think they outweigh his good ones. I feel like his heart is in the right place, and he genuinely cares for other people and wants to help them out. With Lilly, I'm not too sure.
Zombies ate Carley, had nothing to do with Lilly
I love Carley a lot? I think what the OP was trying to say was that a lot of people who like Carley are just fanboys who only wanted her as a love interest and It's pretty dumb.
Yeah that's true! Honestly Kenny really hated my Lee but I just tried to do what I felt was right. I'm sure I'd like Kenny a lot more if I just constantly took his side over everything.
Me too wow. I honestly like them both, I think they're both interesting characters.
Laughs loudly because a lot of people are shitting on me for no reason.
I said I liked both of the characters and I'm being respectful of other people's opinions. Wow really some people need to stop being whiny babies.
I notice you neglected to post the scene where Kenny basically plans to abandon Lee and Clem, just because Lee got (justifiably) pissed with Kenny's shit and told him to go fuck himself. "Don't expect me to wait for you. Once we get that boat out onto the water, we're gone." Thanks for stopping him Vernon!
And you also forgot the scene where Lilly reassures Lee that killing the senator doesn't make him a bad person. Or where she saves Lee twice from the St. Johns.
Point is, both characters have flaws and it's fine to hate them, but let's try not to be ignorant and imply that one is an irredeemable devil and the other is some kind of saint. Honestly, I have a love/hate thing going with both Lilly and Kenny.
I'd like to have them both too. Them seeing each other after so long would make for an interesting situation, especially if Lilly is helping Carver.
Take my upvote, sir.
Just a shot in the dark here, but it may have something to do with shooting Carley/Doug in the face.
Lilly, shot a woman because she was angry.
Kenny, killed a man because he was worried that he would turn.
Kenny has done shitty things too. And I generally have a soft spot for flawed characters. Primarily Lee, no matter how good you make him, he will always have the blood on the senator on his hands before you took control of him. I doesn't hurt to mention that Kenny done more FOR Lee and Clementine than Lilly ever did. I always saw Lilly as an antagonist even. I always found her to have just a negative aura around her, only time I ever warmed up to her was when she supported Lee after I told her I killed before (I tried to save Larry) but even that didn't last too long. At least Kenny could be funny from time to time.
I'm expecting downvotes for this but I honestly was never too fond of Lilly at all. If she returns as a proper antagonist I'll be intrigued, but I will never miss her. She was memorable yes, but I don't want to see her again.
What exactly is the problem with that? In a world where you can get eaten at any moment and almost no one else can be trusted, it only seems right to look out for your family most of the time. Kenny might have gone mad when his family died, but that's an understandable reaction. Hell, even Lilly seemed to have gone mad herself, and would have even gone madder than Kenny had she went along with us until the end of season 1.
I stood by the idea that both ended up doing terrible things, despite not being inherently bad. For me, Lilly murdered a friend in a state of mental instability and left, while Kenny murdered a group member out of desperation and considered leaving me to die out of spite.
But while I may not have personally gotten a sense of loyalty from Kenny, he has the benefit of more screentime and potentially leaving Lee on a more redemptive note.
Wow I actually really like that idea!! Thanks for actually giving me good reasons to back up your opinions! (I actually agree with you here)
Threatened suicide you sure those weren't jokes ive seen a lot of people who stupidly joke about it over a game character
Yeah true but let's not forget what lily does even if she kills Carley/Doug and you're lenient and let her back on
Who cares about Lily stealing the van, the issue is her cold-blooded murder of sweet innocent Carley...
I somewhat sympathized with Lily before that, but if I'd had a choice I'd have had Lee shoot her for that. Simply unforgivable. The scenario where she killed Doug seemed more accidental but with Carley it was premeditated.
Her actions pretty much negated any value she had in looking out for the group, besides her plan to stay was foolishly short-sighted and more risky than she seemed to realize, staying put anywhere is risky but a place out in the open like that is plain stupid. They were starting to starve already and she wanted to winter there?
By comparison Kenny is somewhat inconsiderate and reckless, but I generally agree with his pragmatic side and I find him fairly trustworthy. Granted, Kenny's plan was pretty bad as well, but not the worst.
Actually, I liked them both. Kenny and Lily are just the same, doing everything to protect their family.
A lot of reasons. I'm honestly neutral on this, though I liked both as characters. Let me try to put this into perspective.
Lee meets Kenny first, and at the time, he seems nice enough, and though he runs away from trying to save Shawn, he gives you a ride. When you first meet Lily, she's giving Carley shit for saving you. Arguably, both are not very reliable at this point, when it comes to you. However, despite this, Lee knows Kenny from before, and the first thing he learns about Lily is that she was not willing to help him. Then, Larry starts giving you shit (Big point #1) about Duck being bitten before checking for a bite. This makes you despise Larry, and due to his and Lily's connection, she isn't too happy with you after you inevitably shout him down into submission. Larry's asshole tendencies last throughout his appearance, and so Lily is biased against any negative action you take against him (which there are a few situations for, most importantly the meat locker). Thus, the player probably starts associating Lily's care for her father as a negative quality. Consciously they probably understand, but not on an emotional level. Kenny's family, on the other hand, consists of Duck, who is a child and is parallel to Clementine, and Katjaa, one of the kindest people in the group. Episode 2 consists of bringing Ben and an injured person to camp (devoid of much food) a decision the player had to choose in the heat of the moment, and Lily criticizes the action (understandably, pragmatically, but still hurtful and cold), while Kenny defends your choice. Later on, Kenny and Lily both are wary of the St. Johns, but most importantly, Kenny makes you take action and discovers the butchery room with you. During this time, you have memorable moments with him, such as the swing, and the 'urban' moment. Lily is on the sidelines, so you never get to bond with her. Finally, the decision to kill Larry. If you choose to save Larry, Kenny doesn't do shit for you, and Lily saves you while fighting Andy. If you get Larry killed, Lilly hates you for it, and acts cold forever. Since both cases can be argued against (though I'm pretty sure Kenny could have waited to make sure whether he'll reanimate or not, but in a stressful situation like that, I can cut him a little slack. Plus, if Larry came back in a rush, people could've gotten hurt).
Episode three. In the previous episode, depending on who you saved, Kenny will either be a dick or a bro, but Lily (whose father will be dead, headless regardless) is riddled with paranoia. In the situation that Lily isn't sided with, Lily will assume you're the thief if you don't come up with evidence. Plus, she's adamant at staying in a camp being close to a bandit camp, while Kenny wants to leave and is actively trying to go away. At this point, Lily is completely justified in having paranoia, and one can understand why she's being unreasonable, being emotionally unstable, but since all this while it was either Lilly or Kenny, people have the ability to 'side' with the more reasonable Kenny (Big Point #2).
Finally, on the road, comes Big Point #3. Depending on who you save at the Drug store, Carley or Doug dies. Now, majority of players chose Carley, and she's a much more involved character than Doug is. This majorly skews the opinions. Lily kills Carley with no visible regret or remorse, and blatantly out of nowhere. This is both a bullshit move, and the victim is possibly the character the player is the second most attached to. After that she steals the RV regardless of whatever, if you bring her with you. Otherwise, you let her run off, and never see her again. If you choose Doug, she tries to kill Ben instead and is very sad and upset with Doug's death, and so players are, while angry and shocked, are able to see it was (mostly) an accident. A terrible, terrible accident, and a still a rash move on Lily's part, but an accident all the same. Of course, most people on the forum chose Carley on their first playthroughs, and never see this.
This thing about point number 3 is that, and I don't know whether this was intentional on telltale's part or what, but based on who you save, Lily seems way different. She's a cold bitch in Carley's case, and a depressed, remorseful fuckup in Doug's. This is the answer for why the majority of people favour her less.
Big Point #4, Kenny loses his family soon, but there's nobody to blame, and his pain is personal to the player, since Duck and Katjaa are brilliant and likeable characters, and the pain creeps up slowly. Kenny has the most sad, depressing expression when Kat dies, when Duck has to be put down, and when he's in denial and on the train. We get much more time with Kenny's pain than with Lily's since there is a cut to weeks(?) later, while we go through the aftermath with Kenny. After this, when Kenny does shit, like act rashly with Molly, criticize Ben, leave Clementine alone as he drinks, focuses on the boat, and determinantly refuses to come with you to save Clem, the player has much more of an idea of his pain. Additionally, unlike in Lily's case, we have no 'opposite' to side with.
Big point #5. Kenny goes out in a blaze of glory. If you save Ben, he forgives him after Ben shouts at Kenny, revealing his own pain and troubles. Then, he saves him, sacrificing his life in the process. The player is experiencing the problem with him, and is at a point that losing one more person is too much. If Ben is not saved, he saves Christa. Either way, the last memory you have of him is heroic and brave (however stupid it may have been), while the Last memory of Lily is a sorrowful murder and possibly betrayal (if she steals the van).
All in all, I think a lot of the preference has to do with how Telltale portrayed her, what we got to see of her, her relation with us, the skewed Carley/Doug choice, the lack her presence for two episodes, and half of two others. I think they are both brilliantly written characters, but whether for better or worse, Lily was unfortunate enough to not be Lee's friend, have an asshole family, and be written differently based on a choice independent of her.
Whew, long post. Thanks for reading.
I would care if it had been Ben. And yes, Kenny killed Larry, but if Larry really was dead, then he would probably kill most, if not all of the people in the meatlocker. When Lilly killed Carley/Doug, they were already away from the bandits, and out of danger. They could have found out, who the traitor was, and then taken care of it. Maybe even without killing anyone.
Never said you wouldn't, but I'm saying most people wouldn't have reacted so violently, I guarantee you that. Not saying all of you, but people had a more emotional connection with Doug/Carly.
But the punishment for such a crime is debatable. Kenny wanted to kill Ben when he found out he was the one who did it, which is no better than Lilly wanting to kill Ben/Carly.
Very well written, I think you hit the nail on the head.
I fully agree, that Kenny wanting to kill Ben isn't good. But it is a bit better. Like a tiny little, very small bit better. The thing is, that Kenny knew, 100%, that Ben was the traitor. Lilly didn't. Ben was also indirectly cause in Kenny's family's death. Lilly hadn't lost more than anybody else because of Ben. So, I don't think it was right of Kenny to want to kill Ben, but it was a bit more understandable compared to Lilly
I just highly value loyalty and friendship. Lilly made a lot of fair points and may be a better character, but Kenny was my bro.
Well Doug/Carley were fully innocent and Lily didn't even have any proper clues pointing that way, whereas Ben had admitted guilt. Killing Ben would be far more justified and while killing him might be a slight overreaction it'd be understandable.
I'd say exiling him from the group would have been the right course of action, but as that wasn't an option I had Lee avoid saving him and then tell Clementine it had to be done. She seemed to take it pretty well.
Well, first of all, you can't expect somebody to put other people before their family, even if they are friends. Would you put some stranger you met in the apocalypse first if you had a family? I don't think so. Also, if you play it right, Kenny can offer Lee and Clementine a ride in the RV so Kenny is actually willing to take other people with him. I am going to say it once again, DON'T BLAME SOMEBODY FOR LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR FAMILY.
" DON'T BLAME SOMEBODY FOR LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR FAMILY. "
He is so damn right! And for all those who didn't play Season2 eisode2...
" What's the most important thing in this world? What is the one thing that everyone wants? It's family! "
Well, Kenny DOES leave Lee to die twice if he doesn't help kill Larry. I suppose it might be possible to argue away the incident with Danny, but leaving Lee under the door is just awful. His family was in no danger, and Kenny wasn't at all afraid. He made a conscious decision to leave Lee to die.
Lilly killed Ben or the girl depending who you picked in 1. I was like son of a... they were so useful you just had to do it...
I hate kenny with a passion the things he did just ticked me off all the time no don't do that it's stupid screw you I'm doing it... Ok lets do that no screw you it's stupid. They used him to force you do things so you really didn't have much choice in what happens in the future at most it changes some of the chat which explains more or less of the backstory. Or they help you kill a zombie or say screw you came out fine. That was about it .