I kind of dislike Katjaa...
I thought she was a likeable person, but what she did to Kenny was unfair. She took the easy way out when she should have stuck with Kenny. Imagine if you just lost your kid, and then you lose your wife/husband almost immediately after. That would suck. What she did was unfair to Kenny and the group. This just goes to show how tough Kenny is.
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Well, Katjaa said that she loved Duck more than life itself so she couldn't take it and live in the apocalypse without her son. Katjaa saw that her husband changed and that things might never go back to how they were and Duck getting bitten was the last straw for her.
I feel like, in a way, Katjaa (at that moment) was selfish. Sure she was a kind-hearted, compassionate and caring person but taking your own life to leave a loved one to suffer alone? That's harsh.
I kind of understand Katjaa.
Exactly what I'm saying
Yeah, I agree
I liked Katjaa until that point
Well she took the easy way out and i dislike her for it. At least Kenny got Sarita now
"She left me... my son... people that cared about us... I forgive her, but it don't make it any less wrong. You don't just end it 'cause it's hard. You stick it out, and you help the folks you care about. So let's figure a way outta here and get that little girl."
-Kenny
Gonna sound a little disturbing here, but there are some times when you feel like you can't take anymore and no matter how many people there are at your side, trying to help you, you just feel like you can't take another day. You can even picture that there will be some time in the future where everything will be okay, you just can't stand the wait and patience to get there...
But its kinda sad really...especially those who that person's gonna leave behind, they'd be so confused, so frustrated, all that emotion crushing them, tearing them apart piece by piece...
Sucide is never the answer
I'd like to scold her, but to be honest I think I would have come to the same conclusion. I don't think I could handle that shit... I may have talked to him first, but all in all I'd probably be taking a one way trip into the woods.
Suicide is always a selfish choice in my opinion because of how it causes a 'ripple effect of guilt' among the individual's family and friends. Still, Kenny himself mentions that he couldn't imagine Katjaa and Duck surviving the hell-on-earth that is Savannah. Perhaps Katjaa came to the same unfortunate conclusion?
That line made me believe for a fact that he didn't die in Episode 5. And i was right.
Like BlindMax said, I think suicide is stupid and very selfish thing to do. Everyone who ever cared about you will feel like shit.
What's selfish is expecting someone to go on living a miserable life just because their loss would make you sad. No?
To be fair, the way I saw it Katjaa had very little to live for by that point. She knew Clem and Lee had each other, she barely knew Ben and Chuck, and Kenny... Kenny wasn't exactly being the most supportive husband. She needed emotional support and Kenny gave her absolutely jack shit until it was too late; snapping at her for trying to be reasonable, shutting himself off in the train, refusing to tell her what he did to Larry...
Their relationship was breaking down ever since ep.3 began, and I think it got to the point where she honestly felt like either Kenny didn't care about her or she didn't care about him, at least not enough to keep on living without her son. Of course, whether that justifies suicide or not is debatable, I'm just saying that I can understand why she made that decision.
I think it was a very believable reaction for Katjaa to kill herself. As she said, she loved Duck more than life itself and probably more than Kenny who continued to change into a darker person, especially after episode 2. When someone is at that point of feeling they no longer want to live, they are not thinking of the repercussions it will have on the living other than maybe it will make their life easier, to have one less person to care about. But overwhelmingly their own pain is too much to bear. I also agree with ceeky that it is more selfish to expect someone to live with such pain just so that you're not sad...
You don't just end it because it's hard. You stick it out and help the folks you care about.
What Katja did is horrible and unforgiveable!
A fair point. The circumstance presented by the game are pretty extreme. I've known and heard of people who decided to off themselves over problems that seemed a hell of a lot more trivial.
Nevertheless, suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Losing a child is absolutely terrible, but it doesn't preclude an individual from living a worthwhile and meaningful life. Kat still had people like Kenny and Lee who cared about her and were likely traumatized by her decision.
I remember, last year, I had severe depression due to being verbally abused by a teacher, being bullied, and that fact that my parents seemed to not even care. My grades dropped low, causing me to fight with them. They told me I was going to fail - and I have EXTREME anxiety when it comes to grades because I've been so pressured my entire life, that I'm terrified to let people down. I used to cry every night. I attempted suicide by suffocation, by choking myself with the shower hose, but my I caught myself, right when I thought I was about to run out of air and told myself that I was being a coward and that I should just face my life, not run away.
This, along with that school year, was severely traumatizing to me... And sometimes I try to pretend that it never happened - that it was all a bad dream, and that I'm safe in my own world. But the fact is, I still have panic attacks about it, and random times when my parents will yell at me (because I do something stupid, like yell at my sister) and it sort of triggers something - like a flashback, and I start shaking and break down crying.
I completely understand where you're coming from. I didn't think I could take it, but I did anyway, for my friends and family. :') And I'm still here today.
I always thought that Katjaa was the strong one, actually. Up until that point I thought she was much stronger and level-headed emotionally than Kenny was. In fact, I expected that Kenny was going to be the one to kill himself when Duck finally died. I can't approve of Katjaa's decision in the slightest, however reasonable it may have seemed to her at the time. Kenny needed her help to deal with the most traumatic even of both their lives, and she just left him alone rather than help him so that they could both come through it. When Kenny finally gave his speech about suicide in Episode 5, I realized that he was the strong one all along because he never gave up. He was right when he said that what she did was wrong. You gotta stick it out, no matter how hard it seems, and help the folks you care about.
The worst part is she killed herself in front of her dying son. Was that really necessary? His death wasn't painful enough already, he needed to see his mother die? The least she could've done was gone behind a tree.
Thank you for sharing your story and leaving behind a message. It can be hard, it can be so hard that you don't even know what to do anymore, the pain is beyond understanding and you want a way out, a snooze button. Some go for drinking, some for drugs and some attempt suicide. While i completely am against it and feel like it's a selfish thing to do, we shouldn't be mad at the person making that choice, instead we should try to help them.
This is what i think the main reason why suicides happen so frequently; it seems like nobody cares. In that moment, it feels that way, yes. But let's say it happened; you're dead, white and cold on the floor your family finds you. It may have seemed like they didn't care, but if they only knew, they would give up everything else in their whole lives to keep their children alive no matter what.
What i'm trying to say is, even if things are dark and everyone seems to not care, don't walk away without letting anyone know your inner thoughts. If someone happened to see a suicide note or just a single hint that something is going on, even people who appeared strangers to you would care. A single caring friend can save a life. There's always a light somewhere in the dark tunnel, if you can't see it now you must convince yourself that it will eventually come and things will be better.
Again, thank you for sharing your story, and thank you for making the right choice and to be here with us today!
That quote is especially poignant when you consider how he's barely able to talk about that time between killing Ben and when Sarita found him. Goodness knows he probably had more than enough reason to reconsider that outlook.
I didn't agree with what Katjaa did but I certainly don't dislike her character for it. She was just at her limit.
It still doesnt make anyless right.
You're welcome. :') It's hard to tell people this because they think you're a coward. They... They don't understand the fact that you feel like you have nothing left to live for. No one cares.
But it's like the last line in "If I die Young":
"Funny, when you're dead how people start listening."
I was thinking about this already, because Aaron Jackson (an actor) came to my school today and told us about his best friend who committed suicide at his (Aaron's) birthday party, and was talking about how many bullied children commit suicide a day in the US (I believe it was 1 person every 30 minutes) and just the effects of bullying in general.
It's just sad, because people don't seem to care about it, and make jokes about committing suicide. I hate it. They have NO idea what it's like to be suicidal at barely 12 years old, and the trauma that you take with you. People do the same thing with rape jokes, and while I have never been sexually assaulted, I've researched it and it's effects, and that causes as much, if not more trauma for the person.
I have never gotten help - and I don't want any, but I'm glad I made the choice to stop. I have so much potential to make this world a better place, and that's what I want to do. My grandmother says that I am more grounded than most 13 year olds, so since I don't have an inflated head, I can do way more than the whores (excuse my language) and bastards I go to school with.
Thank you. :-)
You're welcome, but i hope i don't ruin it with what i'm about to say here.
People start listening after you're dead because they didn't know. They may have said something that upset you and they had no idea because it only hurt on the inside and you made no response. When people are not aware of how serious the situation, how are they supposed to know how to act? Suicide and rape are horrible, horrible things but i still must say as a person with an open mind and (to the general society) twisted morals, i don't see the problem in joking about the things and would not feel offended if someone made a joke about my typical behaviour or other types of things that has to do with me.
Now as i said, even if i do joke about these things i am defendant of the people who feel down about it, who feel the need for a friendly shoulder to lean on. Even if a person i truly despite in my surrounding i would still stand up for that person if he/she was on the edge of suicidal attempt or have recently gotten raped or things like that.
Now i may seem cold-hearted perhaps because of my morals, but suicidal 12 year olds break my heart. It hurts to know that it could've been so easy to prevent but they act impulsively and don't ask for support or seek out to their friends.
Also i think that exploring the world on your own more than living in a safe-zone all your life (See example of Clementine vs Sarah even if it's not completely relevant) you get more hardened and can be more open minded and things hurt less than if it's more of a sudden pain that you don't truly understand. Let's say i don't get hurt or offended by barely anything, but one of those "whores with inflated heads" may break from barely nothing just because they haven't been exposed to things before and therefor takes it much worse.
Oh well, just sharing my thoughts.
Still her decision. There's nothing more selfish than expecting someone to live their life so as to make you happy. People exist to their own benefit. It gets muddy when you're talking about group survival, of course.
I was pretty angry, I must say, when she did that. I always thought that Katjaa was stronger than that. Once Duck died, she would still have Kenny and the others to help her through, yet I don't think she considered that.
I don't condone suicide, but it's an act made out of pained desperation and mental trauma, not selfishness.
yes
Quality question i actually found myself rewriting my answer then canceling my comment on this thread such a sensitive issue suicide. I always find this issue hard to analyse as been affected by it really hard to call her selfish yet not calling her selfish is saying suicide acceptable answer to a solution. I think it's selfish way to die but could more of been done to help her why did get katjaa to do it and not kenny or lee stupid. Should kenny and katjaa done more to protect duck to many questions arise so hard to say.
True selfish is very strong word what are they gaining from the act nothing so how it selfish I think desperate is better word
Damn...lots of respect. I can KIND of relate. I mean, I go to a pretty decent school. No bullies...so far at least. But it's the home of drugs you can say. I'm not kidding, I swear like 85% of the kids in this school does drugs. The school is nicknamed "Heroin High." New friends I made do drugs, even kids I've been friends for since like 3rd grade started doing drugs. I swear I'm like the only one out of my friends who doesn't do drugs. There was even a stash of drugs a couple of days ago in the school, and everyone had to stay in their classrooms while cops brought in dogs to sniff out the lockers. 15 kids in total ended up getting arrested...and 4 in my grade. My 13 year old cousin started doing drugs because of some bad stuff.
I'm going to be open and say it. I'm losing my house, and we already lost our car. We are struggling to much to keep this house, and my aunt went crazy. She's not helping us... she's calling my mom a drug addict (when she's NOT), telling lies to the entire family, and is doing everything she can do to stop us from keeping the house. She's calling my mom's friends who has money "Don't help them save the house!" She's manipulated my two uncles (I have 3 uncles total, the other one isn't taking my aunt's bullshit) and my 3 cousins (one in which is my mom's godson) to go against us. She purposely got my step-uncle arrested for assaulting her (which is BULLSHIT, because SHE was attacking my step-uncle in the streets, ripping off his shirt. My step-uncle went to push her off of her, and she starts yelling "HE'S ATTACKING ME!" and a post lady comes up and calls the cops). Now he can only see his 6 year old son on 3 days of the week. And then my 3 other cousins try to commit suicide, and 2 of them went into the mental hospital. I was even thinking about it at one point, since my own family pretty much hates us now due to my aunt's lies. But I've been sticking it out hoping it will end. I kind of think of Kenny's quote from Episode 5 to keep me going. And I've learned that suicide is NEVER the answer, no matter how hard it is. I plan on being in the NBA in 10 years, and if I can do that, none of this will matter. If I ended it now then I wouldn't be able to experience my dream. The future holds bright things for you, because all of this stuff you may be going through in school, and all of the drama going on in your family, won't matter when you grow up. You'll never see those bullies in school again, and you won't take your family's shit when you grow up.
There's always a light at the end of the dark tunnel, and I hope this helped you in any way.
I had a really close friend commit suicide. I was soo extremely angry for him doing what he did. I almost hated him for a good amount of time. That is until I realized what you were saying, then I was angry at myself for being angry at him.
I agree. People who label the act as selfish have never truly been in the correct position to judge. It's a terrible act to truly consider, even more horrific to attempt (the latter is only a guess). There is no self invested reasoning behind it. To those who call it selfish I ask you, have you ever been on the brink like people who actually commit the act? If you're answer is yes, and you still call it selfish, then you're a liar.
This is about 3 times worse than my situation. What happened to you guys is terrible. I'm so sorry about everything that's happened to you guys - and especially about your school. At mine, we call it Guns n' the Middle, because in the last two years, 8 kids have brought guns to school, mainly 6th graders. A friend of mine actually had a gun put to his head by a 6th grader - a fully loaded pistol.
I'm gonna pray for you, internet friend. I'm gonna pray that you're gonna be okay.
Thanks...it means a lot. And the child use of guns is really getting out of control. That's really messed up that a SIXTH GRADER had a loaded gun pointed to someone's head. Society is going more downhill than a roller coaster at this point. I shall pray for you too that everything will be fine.
Oh no, another post that made me feel. That shit is unreal, how can there be so much shit going on around you at once? I love the fact that you keep your spirits up and use the same phrase i refer to; "There's always a light at the end of the dark tunnel." You gotta step up and hold on, there's no need to find a way out, all you need is to struggle.
I kind of have some of that shit in my senior high school, people i've known forever is using drugs, not heroin but still other stuff. There's a shitload of drugs going around and one of my friends got arrested recently. He's going to a mental facility to do tests and is about to start doing community service.
It's probably common everywhere but it's like 90% of underage kids in school do alcohol in huge amounts and use tobacco. And they've been doing it for several years.
This stuff derailed our suicide discussion, but basically there's shit all around us, but we just have to help the ones we care about and keep going.