Lily's last strike for me was when she stole the RV. Both she and Kenny have their good and bad qualities, but since Kenny has a strong sense of loyalty, I enjoy his character much more.
@ Belan, exactly. From the moment we met Lilly, she and her dad were trying to throw us out on our asses either to die or be somebody else's problem. On the other hand, Kenny was just some decent fellow who was trying to keep his son safe from some asshole who was vocal about smashing his head in. In hindsight you can nitpick and try and say that Lilly was trying to keep everyone safe, but in the moment she could have been the grim reaper herself if things didn't pan out the way they did. Kenny was (and is) a good guy who will take care of his friends, and will lose his shit at any suggestion he doesn't approve of, including smashing a little boy's head in (pfft wow Larry).
Exactly. Kenny has his flaws as well, but I don't think they outweigh his good ones. I feel like his heart is in the right place, and he genuinely cares for other people and wants to help them out. With Lilly, I'm not too sure.
Kenny and Lilly have both committed horrendous crimes... the one and ONLY reason people like Kenny over Lilly is because Lilly killed someon… moree who was close to them.
I bet half of them wouldn't bat an eye if it was Ben who got killed.
Anyway, they are more or less justified in that sense, but Kenny did the exact same thing: He killed Larry based on, arguably, a hunch. Lilly had to live with that and she tried her best to move on.
He left Shawn. Shawn was in danger, and Kenny left him. Granted, Kenny felt guilty and regretted his actions later on, but that doesn't make it any less cowardly of him to do that. I forgave him, but it was still horrible for him to do that, even if it was to protect his son. There was no guarantee that he would be saved with Kenny's help, but Kenny didn't try.
The woman in the street, Beatrice. Kenny was thinking for the good of the group, but so was Lilly, arguably. Simply because it was smart doesn't make it any less immoral or horrendous.
Kenny stole food from a car when he had no knowledge on whether or not it was really abandoned. It could be the main reason everybody was killed in the end: Had Kenny left it and continued, The Stranger wouldn't have kidnapped Clem or seek revenge.
I'll agree with you about stealing from the car, but the other examples were not horrendous acts, and definitely were not crimes. In the Shawn situation he was looking after his own family. He should have tried to help Shawn, but can you really blame him for being more concerned about his own family? As for Beatrice, she was going to die regardless of what they did. She was already bitten and surrounded by walkers. Kenny didn't want to get Lee and himself killed just so she could have a more merciful/painless death.
You could describe the Shawn/Beatrice examples as cowardly, but that's about it.
He left Shawn. Shawn was in danger, and Kenny left him. Granted, Kenny felt guilty and regretted his actions later on, but that doesn't ma… moreke it any less cowardly of him to do that. I forgave him, but it was still horrible for him to do that, even if it was to protect his son. There was no guarantee that he would be saved with Kenny's help, but Kenny didn't try.
The woman in the street, Beatrice. Kenny was thinking for the good of the group, but so was Lilly, arguably. Simply because it was smart doesn't make it any less immoral or horrendous.
Kenny stole food from a car when he had no knowledge on whether or not it was really abandoned. It could be the main reason everybody was killed in the end: Had Kenny left it and continued, The Stranger wouldn't have kidnapped Clem or seek revenge.
Kenny didn't want to get Lee and himself killed just so she could have a more merciful/painless death.
That wasn't at all what was on Kenny's mind: what was on his mind was using her as bait for supplies, not their safety. That could have been on Lee's mind, but not Kenny's.
I'll agree with you about stealing from the car, but the other examples were not horrendous acts, and definitely were not crimes. In the Sha… morewn situation he was looking after his own family. He should have tried to help Shawn, but can you really blame him for being more concerned about his own family? As for Beatrice, she was going to die regardless of what they did. She was already bitten and surrounded by walkers. Kenny didn't want to get Lee and himself killed just so she could have a more merciful/painless death.
You could describe the Shawn/Beatrice examples as cowardly, but that's about it.
That completely ties in with not attracting attention and putting themselves in danger. She was also already bitten at that point.
Kenny: "They don't know we're here. We leave her alive and she draws them all to her, buying us time."
Its all about survival. Yes it would be a tremendous act of kindness to put the girl out of her misery, but she was going to die either way. Its not like Kenny was wronging her in any way.
Kenny didn't want to get Lee and himself killed just so she could have a more merciful/painless death.
That wasn't at all what was o… moren Kenny's mind: what was on his mind was using her as bait for supplies, not their safety. That could have been on Lee's mind, but not Kenny's.
You aren't putting yourself in her shoes: of course Kenny wronged her. There was no consultation with her on whether or not she wanted to be eaten alive, was there? There was, of course, no way to do that, but does that mean we simply choose her fate for her? Does that give us that right?
Would you rather be shot in the head or eaten alive, simple question. I'm pretty sure you would choose the less painful option in this case. How, then, can you justify choosing for her so you could get a few more supplies?
Kenny's actions were justified, but so was Lilly's. Lilly still did what she though was right, same as Kenny.
That completely ties in with not attracting attention and putting themselves in danger. She was also already bitten at that point.
Kenny:… more "They don't know we're here. We leave her alive and she draws them all to her, buying us time."
Its all about survival. Yes it would be a tremendous act of kindness to put the girl out of her misery, but she was going to die either way. Its not like Kenny was wronging her in any way.
It doesn't matter whether they had a right to choose her fate or not, they didn't have a choice. No matter what they did in that situation, they had a say in her fate. Whether she gets eaten alive or shot in the head is up to them. There were no other alternatives. So no, Kenny was not wronging her by abstaining from the situation and indirectly deciding her fate. I'm sure the girl would rather not get eaten alive, but she was already doomed. Why would Kenny risk getting themselves killed over someone who is already as good as dead? It clearly wasn't just about the supplies. Hell, Kenny and Lee barely make it out alive after Lee drew the walkers' attention by shooting the girl.
As for your question, I would rather get eaten alive if it meant the safety of others. I wouldn't have people put themselves in grave danger just so I could have a more ideal death.
And no, Lilly's actions are not justified. How can you justify shooting someone in the face just because they were being mean to you? You can't. Even in the other scenario where she tries to kill Ben, it's still not justified. It was still a huge overreaction, and she was in no place to pass the judgement of death upon a member of the group like that. Her actions are not even comparable to Kenny's.
You aren't putting yourself in her shoes: of course Kenny wronged her. There was no consultation with her on whether or not she wanted to b… moree eaten alive, was there? There was, of course, no way to do that, but does that mean we simply choose her fate for her? Does that give us that right?
Would you rather be shot in the head or eaten alive, simple question. I'm pretty sure you would choose the less painful option in this case. How, then, can you justify choosing for her so you could get a few more supplies?
Kenny's actions were justified, but so was Lilly's. Lilly still did what she though was right, same as Kenny.
It's the right thing to do. You have two choices in that situation: do what is right but risky or what is immoral but beneficial?
I'd rather die than know that I have used a woman as bait; I couldn't live with that on me knowing that I could have at least kept her from avoidable pain.
It doesn't matter whether they had a right to choose her fate or not, they didn't have a choice. No matter what they did in that situation, … morethey had a say in her fate. Whether she gets eaten alive or shot in the head is up to them. There were no other alternatives. So no, Kenny was not wronging her by abstaining from the situation and indirectly deciding her fate. I'm sure the girl would rather not get eaten alive, but she was already doomed. Why would Kenny risk getting themselves killed over someone who is already as good as dead? It clearly wasn't just about the supplies. Hell, Kenny and Lee barely make it out alive after Lee drew the walkers' attention by shooting the girl.
As for your question, I would rather get eaten alive if it meant the safety of others. I wouldn't have people put themselves in grave danger just so I could have a more ideal death.
And no, Lilly's actions are not justified. How can you justify shooting someone i… [view original content]
It wasn't just about using her as bait. They had to ensure their own safety. How is the action immoral when she was going to die seconds later either way? What if Kenny had been killed by walkers after drawing their attention by unnecessarily shooting the girl? You then would have directly caused someone else to die that did not need to. Obviously neither Lee or Kenny got killed after shooting the girl, but it was very close. You're saying its the right thing to do solely because the girl doesn't have to go through pain, but its more complicated than that. Like I said above, I would rather die a painful death than have someone pointlessly get themselves hurt or killed by granting me a painless one. It was very unfortunate what happened to the girl, but putting themselves in grave danger just so she can have an ideal death is not the right decision.
Its really easy to say you would shoot the girl when talking about the situation in the game. In reality though, that decision would be 100x harder. I put the girl out of her misery in the game, in real life I do not think I would take that shot (for reasons I have already said).
p.s. Sorry if I edited my previous post after your latest reply, I have a bad habit of adding and adding to my original post.
It's the right thing to do. You have two choices in that situation: do what is right but risky or what is immoral but beneficial?
I'd ra… morether die than know that I have used a woman as bait; I couldn't live with that on me knowing that I could have at least kept her from avoidable pain.
Well, Kenny DOES leave Lee to die twice if he doesn't help kill Larry. I suppose it might be possible to argue away the incident with Danny,… more but leaving Lee under the door is just awful. His family was in no danger, and Kenny wasn't at all afraid. He made a conscious decision to leave Lee to die.
I prefer Kenny over Lilly for one simple reason. Kenny looked out for his family and friends. Whereas Lilly only looked out for number one. Even if you side with her, she still betrays you. That is inexcusable in my opinion.
That's not to say that I don't find her character interesting though. I feel in Episode Three she will return and be revealed as Carvers wife/girlfriend. Which is why we see Kenny getting beaten in the trailer. But that's another story. Time will tell.
In all honesty I have enjoyed every character in both seasons up till now, bar one. Whether they are good, evil or something inbetween. There are always different aspects to their personality's that make me want to learn more about them.
A lot of reasons. I'm honestly neutral on this, though I liked both as characters. Let me try to put this into perspective.
Lee meets Ken… moreny first, and at the time, he seems nice enough, and though he runs away from trying to save Shawn, he gives you a ride. When you first meet Lily, she's giving Carley shit for saving you. Arguably, both are not very reliable at this point, when it comes to you. However, despite this, Lee knows Kenny from before, and the first thing he learns about Lily is that she was not willing to help him. Then, Larry starts giving you shit (Big point #1) about Duck being bitten before checking for a bite. This makes you despise Larry, and due to his and Lily's connection, she isn't too happy with you after you inevitably shout him down into submission. Larry's asshole tendencies last throughout his appearance, and so Lily is biased against any negative action you take against him (which there are a few situations for,… [view original content]
Comments
Lily's last strike for me was when she stole the RV. Both she and Kenny have their good and bad qualities, but since Kenny has a strong sense of loyalty, I enjoy his character much more.
@ Belan, exactly. From the moment we met Lilly, she and her dad were trying to throw us out on our asses either to die or be somebody else's problem. On the other hand, Kenny was just some decent fellow who was trying to keep his son safe from some asshole who was vocal about smashing his head in. In hindsight you can nitpick and try and say that Lilly was trying to keep everyone safe, but in the moment she could have been the grim reaper herself if things didn't pan out the way they did. Kenny was (and is) a good guy who will take care of his friends, and will lose his shit at any suggestion he doesn't approve of, including smashing a little boy's head in (pfft wow Larry).
What "horrendous" crime did Kenny ever commit? And no, finishing off Larry in the meat locker was not a horrendous crime
He left Shawn. Shawn was in danger, and Kenny left him. Granted, Kenny felt guilty and regretted his actions later on, but that doesn't make it any less cowardly of him to do that. I forgave him, but it was still horrible for him to do that, even if it was to protect his son. There was no guarantee that he would be saved with Kenny's help, but Kenny didn't try.
The woman in the street, Beatrice. Kenny was thinking for the good of the group, but so was Lilly, arguably. Simply because it was smart doesn't make it any less immoral or horrendous.
Kenny stole food from a car when he had no knowledge on whether or not it was really abandoned. It could be the main reason everybody was killed in the end: Had Kenny left it and continued, The Stranger wouldn't have kidnapped Clem or seek revenge.
I'll agree with you about stealing from the car, but the other examples were not horrendous acts, and definitely were not crimes. In the Shawn situation he was looking after his own family. He should have tried to help Shawn, but can you really blame him for being more concerned about his own family? As for Beatrice, she was going to die regardless of what they did. She was already bitten and surrounded by walkers. Kenny didn't want to get Lee and himself killed just so she could have a more merciful/painless death.
You could describe the Shawn/Beatrice examples as cowardly, but that's about it.
That wasn't at all what was on Kenny's mind: what was on his mind was using her as bait for supplies, not their safety. That could have been on Lee's mind, but not Kenny's.
That completely ties in with not attracting attention and putting themselves in danger. She was also already bitten at that point.
Kenny: "They don't know we're here. We leave her alive and she draws them all to her, buying us time."
Its all about survival. Yes it would be a tremendous act of kindness to put the girl out of her misery, but she was going to die either way. Its not like Kenny was wronging her in any way.
You aren't putting yourself in her shoes: of course Kenny wronged her. There was no consultation with her on whether or not she wanted to be eaten alive, was there? There was, of course, no way to do that, but does that mean we simply choose her fate for her? Does that give us that right?
Would you rather be shot in the head or eaten alive, simple question. I'm pretty sure you would choose the less painful option in this case. How, then, can you justify choosing for her so you could get a few more supplies?
Kenny's actions were justified, but so was Lilly's. Lilly still did what she though was right, same as Kenny.
It doesn't matter whether they had a right to choose her fate or not, they didn't have a choice. No matter what they did in that situation, they had a say in her fate. Whether she gets eaten alive or shot in the head is up to them. There were no other alternatives. So no, Kenny was not wronging her by abstaining from the situation and indirectly deciding her fate. I'm sure the girl would rather not get eaten alive, but she was already doomed. Why would Kenny risk getting themselves killed over someone who is already as good as dead? It clearly wasn't just about the supplies. Hell, Kenny and Lee barely make it out alive after Lee drew the walkers' attention by shooting the girl.
As for your question, I would rather get eaten alive if it meant the safety of others. I wouldn't have people put themselves in grave danger just so I could have a more ideal death.
And no, Lilly's actions are not justified. How can you justify shooting someone in the face just because they were being mean to you? You can't. Even in the other scenario where she tries to kill Ben, it's still not justified. It was still a huge overreaction, and she was in no place to pass the judgement of death upon a member of the group like that. Her actions are not even comparable to Kenny's.
It's the right thing to do. You have two choices in that situation: do what is right but risky or what is immoral but beneficial?
I'd rather die than know that I have used a woman as bait; I couldn't live with that on me knowing that I could have at least kept her from avoidable pain.
It wasn't just about using her as bait. They had to ensure their own safety. How is the action immoral when she was going to die seconds later either way? What if Kenny had been killed by walkers after drawing their attention by unnecessarily shooting the girl? You then would have directly caused someone else to die that did not need to. Obviously neither Lee or Kenny got killed after shooting the girl, but it was very close. You're saying its the right thing to do solely because the girl doesn't have to go through pain, but its more complicated than that. Like I said above, I would rather die a painful death than have someone pointlessly get themselves hurt or killed by granting me a painless one. It was very unfortunate what happened to the girl, but putting themselves in grave danger just so she can have an ideal death is not the right decision.
Its really easy to say you would shoot the girl when talking about the situation in the game. In reality though, that decision would be 100x harder. I put the girl out of her misery in the game, in real life I do not think I would take that shot (for reasons I have already said).
p.s. Sorry if I edited my previous post after your latest reply, I have a bad habit of adding and adding to my original post.
That's not true, if you sided with Kenny the entire time exept for the Larry decision he will still help you at the door situation.
I prefer Kenny over Lilly for one simple reason. Kenny looked out for his family and friends. Whereas Lilly only looked out for number one. Even if you side with her, she still betrays you. That is inexcusable in my opinion.
That's not to say that I don't find her character interesting though. I feel in Episode Three she will return and be revealed as Carvers wife/girlfriend. Which is why we see Kenny getting beaten in the trailer. But that's another story. Time will tell.
In all honesty I have enjoyed every character in both seasons up till now, bar one. Whether they are good, evil or something inbetween. There are always different aspects to their personality's that make me want to learn more about them.
I applaud your diplomacy sir. This pretty much covers every connection between the two without being completely biased with your statements.