This is a weak argument. There are ways to add gameplay elements without making the NPCs look incompetent. Replace Carlos/Sarita being stumped with Walter/Kenny simply asking Clem to turn it off using the key in the compartment. This completely removes the illusion of it being some mind stumping puzzle that only Clem could figure out.
this has been asked over and over again and i always answer with "YOUR THE PROTAGONIST!" would you want to be sitting around doing nothing i… morenstead of doing other things like fight off walkers or explore places? no you wouldn't, sure it's a plot hole that everyone makes clem do everything but i'd rather it be a plot hole than sitting around doing nothing for half of the game
You're pretty harsh and some of your examples are just completely wrong.
The first one, Alvin's a lazy bum and he got a little girl to check uncharted territory while he sat on his ass. Though he ASKED Clementine to. He didn't force her.
The second one. Again, Alvin asked her to. And you have the choice to sympathize with him and roll with his plan or tell him no.
The third one. Sarah did not say "Can you check the door? I'll hide.". She said "He can't find me!" To which Clementine has the option to reply with "Go hide". She's panicky and clearly she thinks she'd be in much more danger than Clementine would be if Carver saw her. She also doesn't tell Clementine to check the door. Clementine decides to go up to the door and choose between locking it or opening it all on her own.
The fourth one. Clementine offered to shut down the wind turbine. She OFFERED. No one forced or even asked her to. She just decided she could do it and they all decided to give her a chance, while they guarded her to make sure no zombies came out of the woods, attracted by the massive amount of noise. Oh, and what do you know, they were right for 'looking around', because what came after that? Zombies, then Carver's group.
Edit : Also, you forgot about Luke getting Clementine to climb up the ski lift to get a better view of the area, which might have been using her. But maybe he wanted to make her feel more important or show her he's not underestimating her, or perhaps he knows she's very capable, like on the bridge. Or maybe he wanted to send her up because she has binoculars, though he could have just taken the binoculars up himself....I don't know why he did that. I think it was just an excuse to give the "I thought you were dead" person a more dramatic entrance and give the player something else to do lol.
Well, Luke fell through the bridge and had to be saved by Clementine and something happened to him that's potentially him getting lost, hurt, or killed at the end of episode 2, so I don't know if he's capable of managing on his own. In fact I would say Sarah might be more capable than him. d:
Because Clem is the only one truly capable of managing on her own, bar Luke, maybe.
There's some situations that only she'd be able to do… more. For example, could you imagine Luke and Nick doing the whole bridge scene? Could you have imagined how messy the Carver scene where he showed up at the house would be if Carlos was there? Carver had a revolver there. One person wouldn't have gotten out of there in one piece.
One thing I do agree with is that they shouldn't be over reliant on her yet still treat her like a child. cough Carlos cough . Even Rebecca said that no one would survive on their own, with her even having to rely on everyone else.
Because Clem is the only one truly capable of managing on her own, bar Luke, maybe.
There's some situations that only she'd be able to do… more. For example, could you imagine Luke and Nick doing the whole bridge scene? Could you have imagined how messy the Carver scene where he showed up at the house would be if Carlos was there? Carver had a revolver there. One person wouldn't have gotten out of there in one piece.
One thing I do agree with is that they shouldn't be over reliant on her yet still treat her like a child. cough Carlos cough . Even Rebecca said that no one would survive on their own, with her even having to rely on everyone else.
Or they want to continue to be her protector. Clem is a fiercely independent kid and I think its because of the things Lee and Omid and Christa taught her. She's not going to sit back on her hands and do nothing if she can be of use.
Exactly. She doesn't want to be regarded as a helpless little girl, and quite honestly, she's far from being one.
It's like the people complaining don't know her at all.
Honestly there were a lot of ways you can make Clem the protagonist and complete tasks without making the adults look like incompetent users. The wind turbine thing, for example, could have had Carlos say, "We just need to find the key to turn it off," but then get distracted by zombies and have him tell Clem to do it instead. Alvin could have gone into the building with you, like he ended up doing anyway after you'd already made it inside. It's not that hard.
this has been asked over and over again and i always answer with "YOUR THE PROTAGONIST!" would you want to be sitting around doing nothing i… morenstead of doing other things like fight off walkers or explore places? no you wouldn't, sure it's a plot hole that everyone makes clem do everything but i'd rather it be a plot hole than sitting around doing nothing for half of the game
its not about that we are pissed that clementine must do so much, telltale just needs to make the adults seem less stupid and ask a child to do hard work alone. For instance the part where alvin asks clem to go check the house for food; he couldve easily come with her and look for stuff but we as clem would still find the food or something. This way the whole scene would have seen less weird, considering sending a lil kid to a potentially dangerous house is pretty stupid.
Okay, would you prefer sitting around doing nothing as Clem? Sorry if I sound passive aggressive but I really don't understand that mindset.… more Clementine has shown that she is just as capable (if not more) than the adults such as when she took down 3 walkers without a gun on a bridge, taking out a walker just after she stitched her arm shut, keeping her cool when talking to an extremely dangerous man, ect.
That cabin was pretty small and nearly empty. It would look funny the two of them bumping into each other for no real reason. I really think people are making mountains out of molehills on this issue.
its not about that we are pissed that clementine must do so much, telltale just needs to make the adults seem less stupid and ask a child to… more do hard work alone. For instance the part where alvin asks clem to go check the house for food; he couldve easily come with her and look for stuff but we as clem would still find the food or something. This way the whole scene would have seen less weird, considering sending a lil kid to a potentially dangerous house is pretty stupid.
Clementine babysits Sarah because it's safer than going out to search for Luke and Alvin.
Clementine checks the door and meets Carver because he would recognize Sarah and perhaps even try to kidnap her. That and Sarah too scared out of her wits due to whatever it is Carver did to the group.
Clementine checks the bridge with Luke because Carlos looks after Sarah, Alvin looks after Rebecca and Nick's still in the middle of super depression. Leaving her as the best choice.
Clementine checks the house because it's safe, it's not abandoned, Matthew was just in it. A walker being inside that house would be a plot hole. Especially after Nick's loud gunshot.
Clementine climbs the ladder because the rest of the group are checking the big house/ski lodge/grand thingy. And Luke keeps an eye out while she climbs up.
Clementine turns off the generator because she's the one with the lighter and everyone else keeps an eye out to make sure she/they don't suddenly get attacked by walkers.
Clementine goes out and looks for Kenny and Luke because she's the one who can fit through the window.
On top of all of that. Not a single one of those was an order. It was either a request from a group member that Clementine accepted to do out of her own accord. Or her own volunteer without anyone even asking in the first place.
Haha, I totally get where you're coming from. Though I do think it comes down to game play. It's just a little weirder this season since we're an 11-year-old girl doing these things and not a 37-year-old man.
The only "absurd for a little girl" tasks that I thought were appropriate were the ones with Luke - finding Nick/Pete, the bridge, climbing the lift. This was in Luke's character - he saw Clem as an equal, despite her age, and valued her help. Plus he's a little pushy and doesn't have the best judgement on how to handle situations. And he even gets called out for wanting Clem to help him with these dangerous tasks.
The other ones were a little silly. (Clem! Go check out that station house by yourself. Even though we didn't bother to check it for walkers and your only weapon is a hammer. I'm gonna sit here on my fat ass.) There could definitely be a better way to get Clem to do these tasks without it seeming unrealistic or forced. Like maybe with the wind turbine, the switchboard is up high, the ladder is broken, so Clem needs to sit on someone's shoulders to get to it since she is the lightest. Or maybe in the lodge when she (determinately) goes to look for Kenny/Luke, Rebecca tells Alvin to get help, but the window is too small for him, so Clem offers to go.
It would have been better to see some resistance from the adults when Clem offered to do these tasks, and as they see what she's capable of, they gradually become more accepting of her and her abilities. There was a little bit of this when she sewed up her arm, and I guess some stuff might have happened during the 5-day hike, but it's still not enough to make it believable.
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Fo shiz dawg KCohere is bang on thanks to Mr Lee and crispy christa clemmy boo boo is a one way little lady and gets mizzle done like our ur… moreban leegend the older cabin crew treas her as a kid cause she is physically fo real dawg and tell her to do menial rizzle dizzle tasks just like many parents and people do in real life fo shizzle my nizzle
FO SHIZZ after creating BOOMBOX CHEETOS and my nizzle proteges carried on my short legacy I sought a new persona and rizzle dizzle here I am fo real dawg
Fo shiz dawg KCohere is bang on thanks to Mr Lee and crispy christa clemmy boo boo is a one way little lady and gets mizzle done like our ur… moreban leegend the older cabin crew treas her as a kid cause she is physically fo real dawg and tell her to do menial rizzle dizzle tasks just like many parents and people do in real life fo shizzle my nizzle
Fo shiz dawg KCohere is bang on thanks to Mr Lee and crispy christa clemmy boo boo is a one way little lady and gets mizzle done like our ur… moreban leegend the older cabin crew treas her as a kid cause she is physically fo real dawg and tell her to do menial rizzle dizzle tasks just like many parents and people do in real life fo shizzle my nizzle
Comments
This is a weak argument. There are ways to add gameplay elements without making the NPCs look incompetent. Replace Carlos/Sarita being stumped with Walter/Kenny simply asking Clem to turn it off using the key in the compartment. This completely removes the illusion of it being some mind stumping puzzle that only Clem could figure out.
You're pretty harsh and some of your examples are just completely wrong.
The first one, Alvin's a lazy bum and he got a little girl to check uncharted territory while he sat on his ass. Though he ASKED Clementine to. He didn't force her.
The second one. Again, Alvin asked her to. And you have the choice to sympathize with him and roll with his plan or tell him no.
The third one. Sarah did not say "Can you check the door? I'll hide.". She said "He can't find me!" To which Clementine has the option to reply with "Go hide". She's panicky and clearly she thinks she'd be in much more danger than Clementine would be if Carver saw her. She also doesn't tell Clementine to check the door. Clementine decides to go up to the door and choose between locking it or opening it all on her own.
The fourth one. Clementine offered to shut down the wind turbine. She OFFERED. No one forced or even asked her to. She just decided she could do it and they all decided to give her a chance, while they guarded her to make sure no zombies came out of the woods, attracted by the massive amount of noise. Oh, and what do you know, they were right for 'looking around', because what came after that? Zombies, then Carver's group.
Edit : Also, you forgot about Luke getting Clementine to climb up the ski lift to get a better view of the area, which might have been using her. But maybe he wanted to make her feel more important or show her he's not underestimating her, or perhaps he knows she's very capable, like on the bridge. Or maybe he wanted to send her up because she has binoculars, though he could have just taken the binoculars up himself....I don't know why he did that. I think it was just an excuse to give the "I thought you were dead" person a more dramatic entrance and give the player something else to do lol.
Well, Luke fell through the bridge and had to be saved by Clementine and something happened to him that's potentially him getting lost, hurt, or killed at the end of episode 2, so I don't know if he's capable of managing on his own. In fact I would say Sarah might be more capable than him. d:
She is the only playable character. What else are they going to do, have Clem sit outside with Rebecca while Alvin goes in?
Seriously, and Clementine likes to be helpful. She was doing it in season 1 too.
How quickly we forget Clem almost being killed by a walker because she was too weak to run away or fight it off.
Or they want to continue to be her protector. Clem is a fiercely independent kid and I think its because of the things Lee and Omid and Christa taught her. She's not going to sit back on her hands and do nothing if she can be of use.
Honestly there were a lot of ways you can make Clem the protagonist and complete tasks without making the adults look like incompetent users. The wind turbine thing, for example, could have had Carlos say, "We just need to find the key to turn it off," but then get distracted by zombies and have him tell Clem to do it instead. Alvin could have gone into the building with you, like he ended up doing anyway after you'd already made it inside. It's not that hard.
I lol'd
Remember how it's a tradition that the youngest of a family is the one being told to do chores?
Ex. Hey, can you pass me the phone?
Wash the dishes.
Throw the garbage outside and walk the dog
its not about that we are pissed that clementine must do so much, telltale just needs to make the adults seem less stupid and ask a child to do hard work alone. For instance the part where alvin asks clem to go check the house for food; he couldve easily come with her and look for stuff but we as clem would still find the food or something. This way the whole scene would have seen less weird, considering sending a lil kid to a potentially dangerous house is pretty stupid.
That cabin was pretty small and nearly empty. It would look funny the two of them bumping into each other for no real reason. I really think people are making mountains out of molehills on this issue.
sigh here we go again.
Clementine babysits Sarah because it's safer than going out to search for Luke and Alvin.
Clementine checks the door and meets Carver because he would recognize Sarah and perhaps even try to kidnap her. That and Sarah too scared out of her wits due to whatever it is Carver did to the group.
Clementine checks the bridge with Luke because Carlos looks after Sarah, Alvin looks after Rebecca and Nick's still in the middle of super depression. Leaving her as the best choice.
Clementine checks the house because it's safe, it's not abandoned, Matthew was just in it. A walker being inside that house would be a plot hole. Especially after Nick's loud gunshot.
Clementine climbs the ladder because the rest of the group are checking the big house/ski lodge/grand thingy. And Luke keeps an eye out while she climbs up.
Clementine turns off the generator because she's the one with the lighter and everyone else keeps an eye out to make sure she/they don't suddenly get attacked by walkers.
Clementine goes out and looks for Kenny and Luke because she's the one who can fit through the window.
On top of all of that. Not a single one of those was an order. It was either a request from a group member that Clementine accepted to do out of her own accord. Or her own volunteer without anyone even asking in the first place.
Haha, I totally get where you're coming from. Though I do think it comes down to game play. It's just a little weirder this season since we're an 11-year-old girl doing these things and not a 37-year-old man.
The only "absurd for a little girl" tasks that I thought were appropriate were the ones with Luke - finding Nick/Pete, the bridge, climbing the lift. This was in Luke's character - he saw Clem as an equal, despite her age, and valued her help. Plus he's a little pushy and doesn't have the best judgement on how to handle situations. And he even gets called out for wanting Clem to help him with these dangerous tasks.
The other ones were a little silly. (Clem! Go check out that station house by yourself. Even though we didn't bother to check it for walkers and your only weapon is a hammer. I'm gonna sit here on my fat ass.) There could definitely be a better way to get Clem to do these tasks without it seeming unrealistic or forced. Like maybe with the wind turbine, the switchboard is up high, the ladder is broken, so Clem needs to sit on someone's shoulders to get to it since she is the lightest. Or maybe in the lodge when she (determinately) goes to look for Kenny/Luke, Rebecca tells Alvin to get help, but the window is too small for him, so Clem offers to go.
It would have been better to see some resistance from the adults when Clem offered to do these tasks, and as they see what she's capable of, they gradually become more accepting of her and her abilities. There was a little bit of this when she sewed up her arm, and I guess some stuff might have happened during the 5-day hike, but it's still not enough to make it believable.
Fo shiz dawg KCohere is bang on thanks to Mr Lee and crispy christa clemmy boo boo is a one way little lady and gets mizzle done like our urban leegend the older cabin crew treas her as a kid cause she is physically fo real dawg and tell her to do menial rizzle dizzle tasks just like many parents and people do in real life fo shizzle my nizzle
Nevermind.
FO SHIZZ after creating BOOMBOX CHEETOS and my nizzle proteges carried on my short legacy I sought a new persona and rizzle dizzle here I am fo real dawg
Well some situations were minor, but i see what you mean.
...
Urban?
I have no idea what you said but you made me laugh due to the nonsense. lol
Tobi is a good nizzle
fo shizz like Mr lee