Well, if I don't totally understand the morality behind paraphilia disorders, then I have to say the same to you, I'm afraid. :P The thing is, there are so many things in the world that we've barely scratched the surface, let alone fully comprehending them. We would like to think that we are intellectually superior enough to know that something is inherently wrong, but I prefer to keep an an open mind about these things because I know first-hand that many things are not merely in shades of black and white. Is a man wrong for being raised to be a monster, even if he chooses to be humane? I don't think the answer to that is a simple "Yes," or even a "The other monsters are vastly more wrong than him." There are a lot of factors that you have to consider when it comes to human morality; hypocrisy, willpower, upbringing, etc. And even when you consider those factors, could you really nail down a paraphiliac who's trying to cope with his disorder as 'right' or 'wrong' that easily? Like you're grading a paper? There's just something wrong (ironically) with basing human morality off of statistics like that.
At the end of the day, I'd agree with you that some ideas are definitely immoral to consider, such as the idea of pedophilia and rape. But my point isn't really whether if those two things are wrong or not - that question has an obvious answer - my point is whether if the person holding such ideas because his mind is a little screwed is wrong or not, because judging people based on their thoughts would be kinda extreme, and isn't something that could be simplify as "his thoughts are immoral, hence he's immoral." I think that the idea of liberty and freedom allows a person to at least not be discriminated based on his thoughts, but based on his actions. Actions speak louder than words and thoughts, after all.
All in all, I'm kinda glad that this discussion could be carried out in such a civic manner, despite the controversial nature of the subject. I've seen discussions like these turning real ugly sometimes. lol
And on a side note, I think we've gone way over the off-topic scale for a forum discussion thread. xD
All too often the people who fuck up others were fucked up by others in turn. It's a terrible circle, my family is no exception. I still don… more't agree there is a lot of grey area. There is a difference between committing the act, and thinking of the act (and by extension playing the act) but I don't find the thought process behind either to change so drastically to a point that one is wrong and one is not wrong. One is vastly more wrong than the other, obviously, which is why one is looked down on and one is punishable by prison/execution (again referring to the paraphilias of pedophilia and rape only, not an over arcing paraphilia scope).
I hope you don't think I'm bring closed minded. Far from it infact that your post has already given me due reason to rethink my position on the subject. Also having the disorder doesn't make you an immoral person. Many things affect our moral standing on a daily basis, some are e good and some are bad, eac… [view original content]
You're probably right. I almost feel bad for having such a deep, meaningful, if all be it skewed topic discussion. It's definitely been interesting and I'd like to continue in one form or another. Hit me with a private message sometime if you feel like continuing. Philosophy and sciences are among my more favorite topics, so this conversation was great. Anyways..... until next time I bid you adieu.
Well, if I don't totally understand the morality behind paraphilia disorders, then I have to say the same to you, I'm afraid. :P The thing i… mores, there are so many things in the world that we've barely scratched the surface, let alone fully comprehending them. We would like to think that we are intellectually superior enough to know that something is inherently wrong, but I prefer to keep an an open mind about these things because I know first-hand that many things are not merely in shades of black and white. Is a man wrong for being raised to be a monster, even if he chooses to be humane? I don't think the answer to that is a simple "Yes," or even a "The other monsters are vastly more wrong than him." There are a lot of factors that you have to consider when it comes to human morality; hypocrisy, willpower, upbringing, etc. And even when you consider those factors, could you really nail down a paraphiliac who's trying to cope with his disorder … [view original content]
Some people will ship anything with two legs and even that isn't a set-in-stone requirement. The Fallout series fandom is one of the worst offenders. If you've ever witnessed the horror that is ghoul shipping you know what I mean.
To the point, yeah, I don't really get the appeal of Cluke except for pedos. I saw no romantic overtones in their dialogue, whatsoever. It's a lot like Nuke; people grasping at romantic innuendos where none exist.
Some people will ship anything with two legs and even that isn't a set-in-stone requirement. The Fallout series fandom is one of the worst … moreoffenders. If you've ever witnessed the horror that is ghoul shipping you know what I mean.
To the point, yeah, I don't really get the appeal of Cluke except for pedos. I saw no romantic overtones in their dialogue, whatsoever. It's a lot like Nuke; people grasping at romantic innuendos where none exist.
Sometimes, i think people just take 2 random characters, give them a ship name, and call them a ship just to... You know, say that they ship it.
Well, it doesn't go that way.
And yeah, FYI, if you ship Cluke, that means feelings go both ways, and Luke like-liking Clementine would make him a pedophile.
Yep.
THAT IS WHAT YOU'RE MAKING LUKE, CLUKE SHIPPERS.
ARE YOU PROUD OF YOURSELVES.
Hmmph.
Cluke shippers my ass...
I mean, i respect people's opinions and ships, but this is simply not working! I ship Cluke if it refers to, like, a bro-sis relationship, but nothing more. I want Luke, Nick and Clem to form their own family as siblings. That's what i'd like to see, not Luke slobbering after an 11 year old girl!
YEAH! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS SAYING!!!
Sometimes, i think people just take 2 random characters, give them a ship name, and call them a… more ship just to... You know, say that they ship it.
Well, it doesn't go that way.
And yeah, FYI, if you ship Cluke, that means feelings go both ways, and Luke like-liking Clementine would make him a pedophile.
Yep.
THAT IS WHAT YOU'RE MAKING LUKE, CLUKE SHIPPERS.
ARE YOU PROUD OF YOURSELVES.
Hmmph.
Cluke shippers my ass...
I mean, i respect people's opinions and ships, but this is simply not working! I ship Cluke if it refers to, like, a bro-sis relationship, but nothing more. I want Luke, Nick and Clem to form their own family as siblings. That's what i'd like to see, not Luke slobbering after an 11 year old girl!
Age shouldn't matter IMO, if someone loves someone else and they love them back, they should be able to be with that person. I still see as Luke/Clem as just a sibling-ish relationship rather than anything too serious.
I want Nick and Luke and Clem to be, like, this separate family of siblings. You know that, in season 1, Lee and Clem were a family separated from the group, too, sorta. So why can't all 3 of them be the same?
I hardly ever see anyone mention it, except when they're trashing it and/or harassing people who ship it. Do I ship it? No. Do I give it a s… morehit if other people do? No. Do I want to stop hearing people complain about it? YES.
Stop bringing it up - you really think you're helping anything? "Cluke is wrong!" "I agree!" "Me too!" ...what, exactly, is this doing to help anything? You're not going to sway anybody one way or another, so what is the point? You're just giving it more attention.
I hardly ever see anyone mention it, except when they're trashing it and/or harassing people who ship it. Do I ship it? No. Do I give it a s… morehit if other people do? No. Do I want to stop hearing people complain about it? YES.
Stop bringing it up - you really think you're helping anything? "Cluke is wrong!" "I agree!" "Me too!" ...what, exactly, is this doing to help anything? You're not going to sway anybody one way or another, so what is the point? You're just giving it more attention.
I've been a Fallout fan for three years, but I haven't noticed these "offenses". Wh... What ghouls do they ship? I probably shouldn't ask, but I'm deathly curious
Some people will ship anything with two legs and even that isn't a set-in-stone requirement. The Fallout series fandom is one of the worst … moreoffenders. If you've ever witnessed the horror that is ghoul shipping you know what I mean.
To the point, yeah, I don't really get the appeal of Cluke except for pedos. I saw no romantic overtones in their dialogue, whatsoever. It's a lot like Nuke; people grasping at romantic innuendos where none exist.
So...when an eleven year old girl who doesn't even probably understand love gets together with a twenty five/plus person, that should be allowed? What the fuck happened to the world I live in? Maybe if she were older, but that fact is she's eleven and Luke is, like I said before, around twenty five (he was old enough to drink years before the apocalypse). I'm sorry, but I would beat the shit out of Luke if he tried to do anything to her. And he would also be a pedophile.
Age shouldn't matter IMO, if someone loves someone else and they love them back, they should be able to be with that person. I still see as Luke/Clem as just a sibling-ish relationship rather than anything too serious.
I'm not even a Cluke fan, I just think that Luke is a pedophile. Knew a guy once who acted similarly to him and found out that he was a kiddie foddler, but even back then when I didn't know, I had my suspicions about him, now I have the same feeling about Luke.
Lots and lots of Charon x Lone Wanderer last I saw. I learned from my mistake pretty quick and just filter out fics that feature him altogether. Everyone has his/her own taste in reading material, but stories about some chick flirting with/romancing/getting shagged by a guy who looks like a desiccated corpse cross a moral boundary.
I've been a Fallout fan for three years, but I haven't noticed these "offenses". Wh... What ghouls do they ship? I probably shouldn't ask, but I'm deathly curious
Lots and lots of Charon x Lone Wanderer last I saw. I learned from my mistake pretty quick and just filter out fics that feature him altoge… morether. Everyone has his/her own taste in reading material, but stories about some chick flirting with/romancing/getting shagged by a guy who looks like a desiccated corpse cross a moral boundary.
Yeah, I've always felt a little suspicious about Luke. And think about it, he tried to get Clementine to go alone with him onto a bridge. I don't know, maybe he's just a nice guy, or maybe he's a pedophile. I guess we'll find out.
I'm not even a Cluke fan, I just think that Luke is a pedophile. Knew a guy once who acted similarly to him and found out that he was a kidd… moreie foddler, but even back then when I didn't know, I had my suspicions about him, now I have the same feeling about Luke.
So...when an eleven year old girl who doesn't even probably understand love gets together with a twenty five/plus person, that should be all… moreowed? What the fuck happened to the world I live in? Maybe if she were older, but that fact is she's eleven and Luke is, like I said before, around twenty five (he was old enough to drink years before the apocalypse). I'm sorry, but I would beat the shit out of Luke if he tried to do anything to her. And he would also be a pedophile.
YEAH! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS SAYING!!!
Sometimes, i think people just take 2 random characters, give them a ship name, and call them a… more ship just to... You know, say that they ship it.
Well, it doesn't go that way.
And yeah, FYI, if you ship Cluke, that means feelings go both ways, and Luke like-liking Clementine would make him a pedophile.
Yep.
THAT IS WHAT YOU'RE MAKING LUKE, CLUKE SHIPPERS.
ARE YOU PROUD OF YOURSELVES.
Hmmph.
Cluke shippers my ass...
I mean, i respect people's opinions and ships, but this is simply not working! I ship Cluke if it refers to, like, a bro-sis relationship, but nothing more. I want Luke, Nick and Clem to form their own family as siblings. That's what i'd like to see, not Luke slobbering after an 11 year old girl!
I don't see a problem with age differences usually. It's not for the reason that they are 16 years apart, it's that it'd make Luke a major pedophile. I would care less if Clementine was 16, of course I would still be worried for her but I just can't understand someone wanting an 11 year old to be dating anyone...
Age shouldn't matter IMO, if someone loves someone else and they love them back, they should be able to be with that person. I still see as Luke/Clem as just a sibling-ish relationship rather than anything too serious.
Rule 34 probably applies, but I haven't seen any Fawkes shipping and I sincerely hope to keep it that way.
The safest bet is to pal aro… moreund with Seagant RL-3. He's basically ship-proof and has badass one liners to boot!
"There's nothing I love more than making some other poor bastard die for his country!"
Comments
Well, if I don't totally understand the morality behind paraphilia disorders, then I have to say the same to you, I'm afraid. :P The thing is, there are so many things in the world that we've barely scratched the surface, let alone fully comprehending them. We would like to think that we are intellectually superior enough to know that something is inherently wrong, but I prefer to keep an an open mind about these things because I know first-hand that many things are not merely in shades of black and white. Is a man wrong for being raised to be a monster, even if he chooses to be humane? I don't think the answer to that is a simple "Yes," or even a "The other monsters are vastly more wrong than him." There are a lot of factors that you have to consider when it comes to human morality; hypocrisy, willpower, upbringing, etc. And even when you consider those factors, could you really nail down a paraphiliac who's trying to cope with his disorder as 'right' or 'wrong' that easily? Like you're grading a paper? There's just something wrong (ironically) with basing human morality off of statistics like that.
At the end of the day, I'd agree with you that some ideas are definitely immoral to consider, such as the idea of pedophilia and rape. But my point isn't really whether if those two things are wrong or not - that question has an obvious answer - my point is whether if the person holding such ideas because his mind is a little screwed is wrong or not, because judging people based on their thoughts would be kinda extreme, and isn't something that could be simplify as "his thoughts are immoral, hence he's immoral." I think that the idea of liberty and freedom allows a person to at least not be discriminated based on his thoughts, but based on his actions. Actions speak louder than words and thoughts, after all.
All in all, I'm kinda glad that this discussion could be carried out in such a civic manner, despite the controversial nature of the subject. I've seen discussions like these turning real ugly sometimes. lol
And on a side note, I think we've gone way over the off-topic scale for a forum discussion thread. xD
Do people actually ship them?... just no lol
The Mustached One.
Let's discuss about the Nuke ship.
You're probably right. I almost feel bad for having such a deep, meaningful, if all be it skewed topic discussion. It's definitely been interesting and I'd like to continue in one form or another. Hit me with a private message sometime if you feel like continuing. Philosophy and sciences are among my more favorite topics, so this conversation was great. Anyways..... until next time I bid you adieu.
Some people will ship anything with two legs and even that isn't a set-in-stone requirement. The Fallout series fandom is one of the worst offenders. If you've ever witnessed the horror that is ghoul shipping you know what I mean.
To the point, yeah, I don't really get the appeal of Cluke except for pedos. I saw no romantic overtones in their dialogue, whatsoever. It's a lot like Nuke; people grasping at romantic innuendos where none exist.
Okay.
Flawlessly said.
Disgusting. Shouldn't even be a thing people are talking about. But this is the Internet, so of course it is.
So much hate in you, people...
Fucking downvotes.
YEAH! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS SAYING!!!
Sometimes, i think people just take 2 random characters, give them a ship name, and call them a ship just to... You know, say that they ship it.
Well, it doesn't go that way.
And yeah, FYI, if you ship Cluke, that means feelings go both ways, and Luke like-liking Clementine would make him a pedophile.
Yep.
THAT IS WHAT YOU'RE MAKING LUKE, CLUKE SHIPPERS.
ARE YOU PROUD OF YOURSELVES.
Hmmph.
Cluke shippers my ass...
I mean, i respect people's opinions and ships, but this is simply not working! I ship Cluke if it refers to, like, a bro-sis relationship, but nothing more. I want Luke, Nick and Clem to form their own family as siblings. That's what i'd like to see, not Luke slobbering after an 11 year old girl!
Yes, let's!
I ship Nuke as a bromance.
I want them to be bros.
Well said.
Yeah, and if Luke goes near Clem, Lee will come back to life and kick his ass.
OMG YUSH.
Age shouldn't matter IMO, if someone loves someone else and they love them back, they should be able to be with that person. I still see as Luke/Clem as just a sibling-ish relationship rather than anything too serious.
THAT IS INDEED A LOVELY IMAGE.
(?) You reassured Azlyn.
Yeah, Cluke can't happen.
I want Nick and Luke and Clem to be, like, this separate family of siblings. You know that, in season 1, Lee and Clem were a family separated from the group, too, sorta. So why can't all 3 of them be the same?
I really want it to happen, so BAD!!!!
and yet more people bring it up
and yet more people bring it up
Clem and Luke can be like big brother and little sister, anything beyond that is out of question.
lmao dude^
I've been a Fallout fan for three years, but I haven't noticed these "offenses". Wh... What ghouls do they ship? I probably shouldn't ask, but I'm deathly curious
If Cluke Happens...
So...when an eleven year old girl who doesn't even probably understand love gets together with a twenty five/plus person, that should be allowed? What the fuck happened to the world I live in? Maybe if she were older, but that fact is she's eleven and Luke is, like I said before, around twenty five (he was old enough to drink years before the apocalypse). I'm sorry, but I would beat the shit out of Luke if he tried to do anything to her. And he would also be a pedophile.
Hell no, I would use the gun to go headhunting for Luke.
I'm not even a Cluke fan, I just think that Luke is a pedophile. Knew a guy once who acted similarly to him and found out that he was a kiddie foddler, but even back then when I didn't know, I had my suspicions about him, now I have the same feeling about Luke.
Lots and lots of Charon x Lone Wanderer last I saw. I learned from my mistake pretty quick and just filter out fics that feature him altogether. Everyone has his/her own taste in reading material, but stories about some chick flirting with/romancing/getting shagged by a guy who looks like a desiccated corpse cross a moral boundary.
.............
Lucky I prefer Fawkes, then.
WOAH wait. Do they... er... have Fawkes stuff? Please, for the love of Me, say no.
Yeah, I've always felt a little suspicious about Luke. And think about it, he tried to get Clementine to go alone with him onto a bridge. I don't know, maybe he's just a nice guy, or maybe he's a pedophile. I guess we'll find out.
Well he can be considered a Pedophile or a Hebephile, but I think Pedo should start at 10 and lower and not be at 11 or lower.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronophilia
Glad their are good people out there. You have restored my faith in humanity.
Rule 34 probably applies, but I haven't seen any Fawkes shipping and I sincerely hope to keep it that way.
The safest bet is to pal around with Seagant RL-3. He's basically ship-proof and has badass one liners to boot!
"There's nothing I love more than making some other poor bastard die for his country!"
I don't see a problem with age differences usually. It's not for the reason that they are 16 years apart, it's that it'd make Luke a major pedophile. I would care less if Clementine was 16, of course I would still be worried for her but I just can't understand someone wanting an 11 year old to be dating anyone...
Alright, I guess. I play with good Karma, though, so I'll look for a Karma-cancelling mod. Or a new companion mod.
I am honored to be the one that restored your faith in humanity.
FeelingSpecial