Nick and Depression

edited May 2014 in The Walking Dead
I've talked about this in some other threads before, but I figured I'd put it in a thread where we can all discuss it on it's own specifically.

I think Nick has depression. I don't mean depression as in "he's sad because his mom and Uncle Pete died", I mean actual clinical depression, the actual disorder depression. I say this because I struggle with it myself and see a lot of myself in Nick--in his dialogue, his dark moods, the way he reacts to things. A lot of other people I've spoken to feel the same way.

I can't be sure if this is the angle Telltale is taking purposefully--we won't know unless it's confirmed by a writer, I suppose--but to me it feels so real that it has to be intentional. And I'm glad of it.

When Nick talks about how he's struggling and how he's "not built like that", how he can't just get up and move on the way Luke and other people do, that means a lot to me. Not only is there a character I can relate to in a game that I love, but he's being portrayed realistically. Some people can try their hardest but they literally just can't pull themselves up by their bootstraps and move on, some people struggle and it's not their fault. Telltale is portraying the reality of struggling with depression and showing how it doesn't just "go away" when it's inconvenient. It's a real thing that people have to deal with every day and it can make life difficult.

I don't agree with all of Nick's actions--I won't excuse him shooting Matthew, and I'm annoyed that he would offer alcohol to Clementine. But nevertheless he has a narrative that means a lot to me. You guys don't necessarily have to agree with me, but please have respect because this can be a touchy subject.

Comments

  • Nick has been portrayed beautifully in the past 2 episodes, and like you have said he is an extremely relatable character. I'm just scared he'll be offed soon.
  • Yea I think he's getting to that point in depression where he doesn't want to help himself and just want to help other people even if it means being a ben and getting other people killed.
  • edited May 2014
    As someone who actually had severe clinical depression early in my 20s, I can relate to Nick a lot. Particularly his self-esteem problems, desire to feel worth something and failing when he tries, anger etc.

    He's quickly become one of my absolute favourite characters in the series, just because of how well they portrayed it all. It really, really sucks that he's probably getting killed off soon. Hopefully he gets to really step up and do good before the end. :(
  • Depression can happen to just about anyone, this is possible, and I agree that he could have it.
  • edited May 2014
    I feel so bad for him, you can clearly see he cares about everyone and tries to protect them, but then he messes up and they all yell him for screwing up (the incident with Matthew for example).

    I think that he suffers from depression, and because he wants to protect the rest but keeps screwing up, the cycle continues. Don't know if it's clinical though.
  • edited May 2014
    OP, your text could've as well been written by me (content wise, I mean). It's why during my playthrough, I tried my best to not be too hard on Nick; depression already sucks enough as it is. I can't imagine what it's like to deal with it in the apocalypse.
  • By "clinical" I more just meant that instead of being "oh I'm sad", he's actually suffering from depression. However, it could certainly be likely he was diagnosed by a (non-Carlos) doctor, pre-apocalypse. 6% of America's adult population reports being diagnosed with clinical depression. It probably wouldn't be very relevant to the game so I doubt that's something that will ever been confirmed or denied, but it would be cool to have a character that is confirmed with an actual diagnosis and the actual word "depression" and not just heavily implied. I mean, Telltale does a fantastic job of showing and not telling, which I love and very much admire, but still, sometimes putting a name to things has it's benefits.

    I feel so bad for him, you can clearly see he cares about everyone and tries to protect them, but then he messes up and they all yell him fo

  • edited May 2014
    In a game like this, it's hard to tell the difference between clinical depression and just being a normal human being reacting to the reality around you. I don't really have much experience with depression myself so my opinion doesn't really hold much weight in that regard, but the emotions and actions that Nick demonstrated didn't strike me as being outside the range of normal behavior compared to other characters in the series like Kenny, Lilly, Christa, and Ben.

    They each have different manners of coping with their losses. Kenny's one-track mind just distracts himself from his troubles by doubling down on whatever his focus was on at that time, even if it won't help his current situation. Lilly lashes out at the people around her in fits of misplaced anger and paranoia. Christa walls herself emotionally off from everyone around her and refuses to discuss what happened. And Ben just seems to sulk in the corner and feel bad about himself. Nick kinda does a little bit of each of these, but to me he actually seems to have a better grip on how to deal with things than the others, probably due in part to the more solid support structure he has around him.
  • I think it is quite possible that Nick has clinical depression considering his backstory. His real father was never around and was a jerk when he was. While Pete genuinely tries to be a good father figure to Nick, he can be brutally honest and it might have caused Nick to suffer low self-esteem and from there caused his depression. During the Apocalypse, it have gotten much worse. He has to personally kill his own mother after she got bit and he watch helpless as Pete got killed (Determinant).

    Again, this all makes Nick my favorite character of Season 2. I can relate to his problem, because I have suffered low self-esteem and depression (not clinical) in the past.
  • I was expecting a response like this.

    It is very hard to tell, considering the tragedy people have experienced, which is why I said earlier above how beneficial it would be to have the word "depression" actually used. I would honestly argue that characters like Christa and Lilly suffer from PTSD, but I don't know too much about PTSD so I won't try to act like I do.

    I think a lot of it has to do with Nick's issues appearing to be very deep-seated. Uncle Pete talks about how he had a difficult home life growing up, which probably gave him a lot of self-esteem issues and feelings of inadequacy. In contrast, these other characters* haven't been given that kind of back story--we view their spiral downward as a direct result from in-game events. With Nick, we are introduced to him as being panicked and lacking in self-esteem, and even with the story about his mom, we are still given the implication that his behavior existed before the apocalypse--although perhaps it's now amplified.

    *Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read somewhere that Larry was abusive towards Lilly and Kenny was a recovering alcoholic. I don't recall these in-game and I'm not even sure if they're canon, which is why I don't see them as having the same kind of bearing as Nick's backstory.
    DomeWing333 posted: »

    In a game like this, it's hard to tell the difference between clinical depression and just being a normal human being reacting to the realit

  • i totally agree with this. as soon as i saw nick, and heard some of the things he said, it was basically a "that's me" moment. its really meaningful to see a character with the same condition as me in a game that i love.
  • keylimepiekeylimepie Banned
    edited May 2014
    While it's certainly likely that Nick is depressed, I'm not sure if having it explicitly spelled out is really necessary (or even a good idea). Nick's very real, genuine behavior is part of what makes him interesting. It would suck if it became a characterization point for him that he was just some depressed guy, and it would seem ill-fitting for it to just come up that he was diagnosed as being depressed before the apocalypse.

    I like Nick. I like his character, and I'm interested in having him around more. I think he's a pretty melancholy guy, but I don't want it to become a huge part of how he's defined as a character. It is what it is, and it's interesting left ambiguous as it is. Just my opinion, though.
    skoothz posted: »

    By "clinical" I more just meant that instead of being "oh I'm sad", he's actually suffering from depression. However, it could certainly be

  • Well, yeah, I did say it would be a strange thing for the game to address without coming off as really shoehorned.

    It's kind of a double-edged sword because like I said I think Telltale does a fantastic job showing his depression through scenes and not just stating it. But part of me also wants that confirmation, and I think if the used the word Telltale would do a good job to not make sure his character was flanderized because of it. It's not like he has a long time left for it to even get like that anyway, though, honestly.
    keylimepie posted: »

    While it's certainly likely that Nick is depressed, I'm not sure if having it explicitly spelled out is really necessary (or even a good ide

  • keylimepiekeylimepie Banned
    edited May 2014
    >It's not like he has a long time left for it to even get like that anyway, though, honestly.

    Unfortunately.

    Edit - I just want to say that it wasn't me who downvoted you. I respect your idea and appreciate that we could talk about stuff without being dicks to each other.
    skoothz posted: »

    Well, yeah, I did say it would be a strange thing for the game to address without coming off as really shoehorned. It's kind of a doubl

  • Nick is the most real character in the game, I would argue. To suffer from clinical depression in a ZA can't be easy and we see that. Your insight was really interesting, thank you for sharing!
  • I'm sort of in the same boat. I can relate to Nick's depression, because I've suffered with it a lot myself over the years and it's not a great feeling [you can wind up snapping sometimes, feel upset or really worthless about yourself.] So when Nick gave that speech about Luke and how he wished he could be like him and keep go going like Luke does, I actually thought 'dammit, I want to be like Luke too!'

    That's why I don't dislike Nick for that relating. I always forgive him in episode 1, and promise Pete I'll look out for Nick, and why I stand up for him when confronted with Walter. Yes he did treat Clem harshly and yes he was stupid on the bridge. But also it's important to remember he did lose his mom before Clementine shows up, and that's the whole reason he's so on edge and distrustful of her at the cabin in teh first place, because Nick's worried she's lying and that if Clem turns into a walker he might wind up losing another person he cares about. You could also argue that's why Nick overreacts when they're on the bridge and he shoots Matthew. He's lost Pete, and was ready to give up hope and drink himself to death, only for 5 days later to then go see his old friend Luke and newbie friend Clem 'supposedly' being held at gunpoint, of course he panicked.

    Yeah, if that dude were real I'd be hugging him lots ;_; I can't get why anyone would hate him. [although a note, I do like how Nick's depression differs from Kenny's who we're getting hints at wanting Clem to replace Duck]
  • As someone who has essentially fully recovered form severe clinical depression and minor suicidal thoughts for a few years in high school (I'm finishing up my freshman year in college and am doing great) I can honestly say in my opinion that Nick is being portrayed EXTREMLY accurately as a clinically depressed person . The feelings/thoughts of not being able to move on and just leave things behind quickly is something I can clearly remember. When he drags his feet and slumps behind the group when they travel to the ski lodge it is perfectly relatable to actions I would do when I was at my worst.

    While I have no doubt the Z.A. would cause everyone to not be at their best moods, Nick's speeches, his backstory, and the attempts at trying to do what's right (possibly in order to feel better about himself and get some praise from the group) are fairly accurate to what I would do in his situation. I wouldn't kill Matthew but the fact that Nick wanted to get it off his chest and tell the victim's partner is something that fits the bill of a clinically depressed person. Just thought I'd share my own views on it :).
  • I pointed this out in a thread I made when I first joined the forum, but I feel like there's some foreshadowing Nick might commit suicide, or at the very least attempt to. His wish to die in the distillery shed, and Luke having the option to tell Clementine that Nick has had suicidal thoughts before, makes me worried, especially given the situation he's in now. I get the feeling that throughout this he's never entirely been alone, having his mom, uncle, and Luke, but they're all absent at this point, and it can leave him with a lot of feelings of hopelessness.

    What do you guys think of this? Obviously it would be a heartbreaking ending, but would you feel at all slighted by Telltale? That is to say, would there be something kind of offensive or at least very disappointing about having the character with depression kill himself?
  • HMM thats REALLY hard to say...on one hand, it would be realistic to what a lot of people with clinical depression go through, but on the other hand, would i really want to see a character I relate to so much kill himself? it would almost feel personal, i think. i would much rather see nick not kill himself, but neither would i like to see him suddenly "get better"...i want him to fall somewhere in the middle, maybe learn to cope with his depression?
    skoothz posted: »

    I pointed this out in a thread I made when I first joined the forum, but I feel like there's some foreshadowing Nick might commit suicide, o

  • Telltale makes very realistic characters more than you think (this is from a guy who plays TWD like 70h+ and sympathizes with every character, that's also how I learned not to hate Kenny)
  • Oh, I didn't think you did, it's okay.
    keylimepie posted: »

    >It's not like he has a long time left for it to even get like that anyway, though, honestly. Unfortunately. Edit - I just want

  • And yet everyone hates Ben.

    I feel so bad for him, you can clearly see he cares about everyone and tries to protect them, but then he messes up and they all yell him fo

  • Another person who struggles with depression, adding my voice to the chorus of people who say Nick's personality is portrayed with alarmingly accurate shades of it. If this is the case, he is in fact a very, *very* strong person to have survived in this kind of world for so long with such an emotionally-debilitating disease. In the real world, "normal" days can feel like everything is collapsing while simultaneously standing still; a crapsack world like TWD's universe would be almost unbearable for many sufferers. It provides some interesting perspective on his strength of character.
  • It's possible. I would say he cares too much about his friends to do that, but they all seem to be losing faith in him rapidly, which can do wonders to an already non-existent self-esteem.

    I do think it'd be a little underwhelming though, narratively. I'm hoping that, if he is to go, it'll be in a way that will earn him respect from the rest of the group. Would be much more satisfying a character arc that way.
    skoothz posted: »

    I pointed this out in a thread I made when I first joined the forum, but I feel like there's some foreshadowing Nick might commit suicide, o

  • Thank you.

    I can't help but take it personally when people sat Nick is a "screw-up" because it takes a lot of strength to just get up in the morning even in a normal world like this. I can't imagine how broken I'd be in that world and experienced what he's had to go through.
    Omegabegin posted: »

    Another person who struggles with depression, adding my voice to the chorus of people who say Nick's personality is portrayed with alarmingl

  • I guess what worries me is who does he really have left? The only people he seemed genuinely close to in the Cabin Group were Pete and Luke. Pete is dead and as far as Nick is aware, so is Luke.

    I want him to have a redemption moment as well. He's made a lot of mistakes and it would be really nice to see him do something really great and impactful to prove to people he's not the liability everyone's been saying he is.

    It's possible. I would say he cares too much about his friends to do that, but they all seem to be losing faith in him rapidly, which can do

  • as someone who has depression, yea, nick seems to have depression. the way he acts + talks about himself/his life is very indicative + relatable and it really means a lot to see a character who i can relate to like this.
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