In what world does someone kidnapping a child, holding them against their will, and forcing them to do manual labor NOT sound like slavery? The slaveholders in our real-world history did (and still do) feed and house the people they hold- it doesn't mean they're not slaves.
If Carver and Troy are good people, why not make the settlement open for people to come and leave as they see fit? If the people in the camp are not Carver's slaves, why did he spend weeks chasing the cabin group across the entire state to bring them all back?
Also, I understand that Clementine will get hurt. The story would be boring if she was indestructible. However, this only justifies Telltale's placement of Troy in the game. It doesn't make his character morally justifiable.
"Troy is a guard dog for a dictator who kidnaps and essentially enslaves unwilling people".
Again, nothing to suggest that so far. Peop… morele are way too sensitive about this whole thing. Like it or not, Carver keeps a community safe and fed. Did he do some unethical things in order to do that? Most certainly. But it is the zombie apocalypse, justified or not, right or wrong, it doesn't make a difference right now. And that in my opinion is what TWD is all about.
And Clem being badass or not doesn't change the fact she would've been hurt in some way by another person. And for all we know, whether or not Troy hits Clem could be determined by you.
"In what world does someone kidnapping a child, holding them against their will, and forcing them to do manual labor NOT sound like slavery?"
convicted teenagers are often forced to do community labor. They were forcibly arrested (kidnapped), held in a cell against their will, and convicted (forced) to do work they did not want to do. Nowhere will you find people calling that slavery.
In what world does someone kidnapping a child, holding them against their will, and forcing them to do manual labor NOT sound like slavery? … moreThe slaveholders in our real-world history did (and still do) feed and house the people they hold- it doesn't mean they're not slaves.
If Carver and Troy are good people, why not make the settlement open for people to come and leave as they see fit? If the people in the camp are not Carver's slaves, why did he spend weeks chasing the cabin group across the entire state to bring them all back?
Also, I understand that Clementine will get hurt. The story would be boring if she was indestructible. However, this only justifies Telltale's placement of Troy in the game. It doesn't make his character morally justifiable.
Simple blows to the head kill people all the time. Underneath your temple (which is just an inch or so away from where Troy hit), people have their meningeal artery. If a person is hit there, the artery stands a VERY good chance of rupturing and causing bleeding in the brain. If Troy had hit her there, Clementine would have been 100% dead.
to kidnap - to forcibly restraint a person and take them with you.
to arrest - to forc- wait a minute...
"He knows she took no pa… morert in the initial escape." You apparently have some insight about Troy's character. You know what he is supposed to know and what he is not. You also know when he joined Carver'S community. Do you work for Telltale?
Police officers are allowed to use force if their opponent is attempting to assault them or anyone else. We do not know what Clem did, so it might have been called for. Also, I don't believe that the blow was deadly. You are giving the human body too little credit. It's not made of glass and doesn't break THAT easily.
"If Carver and Troy are good people, why not make the settlement open for people to come and leave as they see fit?"
Again, you are assuming things. We don't know what's going on there, therefore debating about this would be pointless. And we don't know why the cabin group left the camp in first place. Carver said Alvin already killed a guy in cold blood and Alvin didn't seem to deny it. Granted, he wasn't in a position to do that. And the baby also comes in play here, which gives Carver quite a reason to go after them.
In what world does someone kidnapping a child, holding them against their will, and forcing them to do manual labor NOT sound like slavery? … moreThe slaveholders in our real-world history did (and still do) feed and house the people they hold- it doesn't mean they're not slaves.
If Carver and Troy are good people, why not make the settlement open for people to come and leave as they see fit? If the people in the camp are not Carver's slaves, why did he spend weeks chasing the cabin group across the entire state to bring them all back?
Also, I understand that Clementine will get hurt. The story would be boring if she was indestructible. However, this only justifies Telltale's placement of Troy in the game. It doesn't make his character morally justifiable.
How do people not understand that kidnapping someone is not the same as arresting them?? Making a convicted teenager do work as punishment for a crime they committed is not the same as holding a child in a labor camp indefinitely for no justifiable cause.
"In what world does someone kidnapping a child, holding them against their will, and forcing them to do manual labor NOT sound like slavery?… more"
convicted teenagers are often forced to do community labor. They were forcibly arrested (kidnapped), held in a cell against their will, and convicted (forced) to do work they did not want to do. Nowhere will you find people calling that slavery.
And another point, she's growing up and trying to grow up in Lee's image (or whatever image you view Clementine as) she's not going to stay the sweet innocent girl she was in the first Season. She was one of the most (if not THE most) adorable characters I've ever seen in a video game. Thing is, I think people have just had the knack of being overprotective of her and not wanting her to come to any harm since we played as Lee in the first Season and our job as Lee in the first Season was to protect her, no matter what.
She's growing up as her own independent character now, and she now has to learn how to battle her own battles, she already has been a good bit in Season Two and I can't wait to see the evolution of her character from here.
As for Troy, yes it's a major issue actually. I'm wondering WHY people just jump into a hate wagon when a character makes just a little threat or another to a main character. Example? Rebecca, everyone got very sassy and angry and wanted her to die after how she treated Clementine. You know what I did? I gave her the benefit of the doubt and I'm glad I did, she apologised and now her and my Clem are actually on good terms now. I would even say I like her now. And why is this relevent? Bonnie. Everyone in here was complaining about how horrible of a person she has become and all that and say the second they get the chance, they'll try and kill her. That's messed up. And like I did with Rebecca I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt and something tells me she really will come around and redeem herself.
And Clementine? Sarita? Will they be allowed to leave as they see fit? I mean, if Carver is only holding the cabin group hostage because they've committed crimes against him, those two should be free to go then, yes? Odd then that they were still terrorized, potentially held at gunpoint, and forcibly transported against their will in the first place.
"If Carver and Troy are good people, why not make the settlement open for people to come and leave as they see fit?"
Again, you are ass… moreuming things. We don't know what's going on there, therefore debating about this would be pointless. And we don't know why the cabin group left the camp in first place. Carver said Alvin already killed a guy in cold blood and Alvin didn't seem to deny it. Granted, he wasn't in a position to do that. And the baby also comes in play here, which gives Carver quite a reason to go after them.
Well said! And Clem can learn from getting hurt, for example, when she had to stitch her self up, she grew as a person and had to take the initiative to go out of her way and do that.
Also, we dont know what reason Troy had for hitting Clem. Who knows, he is probably respecting orders, so when the time is right he can go out of his way and turn on Carver. Or Carver could be pointing a gun at him and forcing him to hit Clem, we dont know what is happening outside the picture/Clip, we just jump to conclusions on what we see.
It's not that easy. Sarita won't leave on her own and without Kenny even if she wanted to, same goes for Clem. And let's not forget that Kenny killed one of Carver's man. If he hadn't done that, chances are Walter would still be alive and probably they would've been left alone. Not saying is right, but it is fair.
I wanna get one thing straight: Even if I like Carver from a story point of view, doesn't mean I approve or agree to what he's doing. I actually really enjoy reading other people's opinions about this whole thing, it's nice to see that this thread managed to do that.
And Clementine? Sarita? Will they be allowed to leave as they see fit? I mean, if Carver is only holding the cabin group hostage because the… morey've committed crimes against him, those two should be free to go then, yes? Odd then that they were still terrorized, potentially held at gunpoint, and forcibly transported against their will in the first place.
And I don't hate Carver as a character. I can appreciate that's he's well written, and interesting, and Michael Madsen is enormously talented. It's perfectly fine to enjoy characters that are problematic and villainous. The problem only comes in when we start making false justifications for their behavior and refuse to recognize that they really ARE bad people.
It's not that easy. Sarita won't leave on her own and without Kenny even if she wanted to, same goes for Clem. And let's not forget that Ken… moreny killed one of Carver's man. If he hadn't done that, chances are Walter would still be alive and probably they would've been left alone. Not saying is right, but it is fair.
I wanna get one thing straight: Even if I like Carver from a story point of view, doesn't mean I approve or agree to what he's doing. I actually really enjoy reading other people's opinions about this whole thing, it's nice to see that this thread managed to do that.
In a way... I like that Clem got hit because that just makes her more bad ass but at the same time I want to kill Troy for doing so. If that hit wasn't placed where it was, which is very easy to mistakenly miss, she could have gotten a concussion.
I think everyone has his own opinion. If some people are angry at Troy so let them. I think about killing him too. Maybe Troy will do something good to show that he is not an complete bastard. Let's see...
While I agree with you, I think these people are just trying to protect Clem like they did in S1 and being a badass will protect her since she's basically on her own. When the hardcore Clem fans see her get hurt they probably feel like they failed in protecting her.
I don't mind that Clem got hit, that's not the problem. I think it's obvious Troy is a trusted member of Carver's camp, and while I think Bonnie will help Clementine, there's not going to be two turncoats in the mix. Troy is a bad dude, someone who's helping a psychopath travel across a state to kidnap a group of relatively helpless people. Not to mention his entire camp looks like it's built on slave labor, and is keeping people there against their will.
I'm honestly not very angry at Troy; I'm more confused as to why people are leaping to his defense.
Just joined the forums to comment -- I didn't even know the dude's name was Troy. I don't remember hearing his name after playing through A House Divided a couple times already. Almost everything in OP is definitely on point, though.
We are not defending Troy we are arguing against the 20+ threads all about how they want to kill him it's pretty annoying that that's literally all they're talking about have they heard o keeping it to one thread?
I don't mind that Clem got hit, that's not the problem. I think it's obvious Troy is a trusted member of Carver's camp, and while I think Bo… morennie will help Clementine, there's not going to be two turncoats in the mix. Troy is a bad dude, someone who's helping a psychopath travel across a state to kidnap a group of relatively helpless people. Not to mention his entire camp looks like it's built on slave labor, and is keeping people there against their will.
I'm honestly not very angry at Troy; I'm more confused as to why people are leaping to his defense.
When they put this type of scenes in the game is to people react to it. If you just keep thinking that the characters have always a good reason for what they did then you won't enjoy the game as much as other people did.
Edit: Yes, she is going a bad time and there are bad things than Troy hiting her, but still doesn't make it good, and it would suck if people just get normal to Troy's attitude, some people want him to have a good explanation about what he did, I don't think he has a explanation, I think nobody said to him something like " you have to hit clem or your family dies", that's stupid. I think that he just wanted to stop Clem and that first thing that came to his head was hit her.
Another Edit: Funny how now almost everyone agrees with you :)
OMG people seriously? Come on we all love Clem but she's not the only kid who got beat down. This is a ZA and just like Walter told her '' This world is more political than before,'' Which means nobody cares if your a child or not. Game Of Thrones has children getting beat down and killed constantly on that show, so how is Clem getting beat down any different?
Plus the only reason Clem has a sassy attitude is because of Christa. Whatever Christa taught Clem during the 16 months influences her behavior. Christa made a tough Clem. And after Omid's death that's when Christa expected Clem to become more tough and survive.
Still gonna hate and still want to kill Troy BWAHAHAHA
that does not mean I am gonna over rage and want to kill you guys XD
I myself..well..I didn't play S1, I am sad by her change but not angry at her...terrified at the idea of her blackmailing....I try to be nice and protective....and take advantage over the sassy dialogue as much as I can(which is actually not much XD)...I have unreasonable anger toward Christa but I guess I shouldn't.
You guys have to admit though when he hit Clem he hit right through everyone's heart due to them being Lee...specially as they turned from guardian (lee) to spectator/doer for everyone(Clementine)...heck I didn't play season 1 and I was shocked. If I were in Troy's place i would have just tried to grab Clem by the collar.
Its true though, we are being blind...aside from being a loyal follower we do not know everything about Troy and we shouldn't be ignoring it. If you guys are able to do that then by all means sure..not going to kill you guys for it...but I do not think I can yet P:
I do not think this is such a issue for it to be called "a forum divided" .....or being labeled hypocrite...you cant really generalized a forum..specially when it gets flourished with new members with different perspectives. Everyone is hating Troy not JUST because he hit a child, it is because they CARE about Clem.
I agree with you Guilty. People gotta cut Troy some slack. We literally know nothing about him, hell it can be a determinant scene. Maybe he only does it if Clem hits Troy first or something like that. The hate that Troy is getting is just unbelievable. We just have to wait for the episode to come out before jumping to conclusions.
Comments
If Carver and Troy are good people, why not make the settlement open for people to come and leave as they see fit? If the people in the camp are not Carver's slaves, why did he spend weeks chasing the cabin group across the entire state to bring them all back?
Also, I understand that Clementine will get hurt. The story would be boring if she was indestructible. However, this only justifies Telltale's placement of Troy in the game. It doesn't make his character morally justifiable.
convicted teenagers are often forced to do community labor. They were forcibly arrested (kidnapped), held in a cell against their will, and convicted (forced) to do work they did not want to do. Nowhere will you find people calling that slavery.
Again, you are assuming things. We don't know what's going on there, therefore debating about this would be pointless. And we don't know why the cabin group left the camp in first place. Carver said Alvin already killed a guy in cold blood and Alvin didn't seem to deny it. Granted, he wasn't in a position to do that. And the baby also comes in play here, which gives Carver quite a reason to go after them.
She's growing up as her own independent character now, and she now has to learn how to battle her own battles, she already has been a good bit in Season Two and I can't wait to see the evolution of her character from here.
As for Troy, yes it's a major issue actually. I'm wondering WHY people just jump into a hate wagon when a character makes just a little threat or another to a main character. Example? Rebecca, everyone got very sassy and angry and wanted her to die after how she treated Clementine. You know what I did? I gave her the benefit of the doubt and I'm glad I did, she apologised and now her and my Clem are actually on good terms now. I would even say I like her now. And why is this relevent? Bonnie. Everyone in here was complaining about how horrible of a person she has become and all that and say the second they get the chance, they'll try and kill her. That's messed up. And like I did with Rebecca I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt and something tells me she really will come around and redeem herself.
Also, we dont know what reason Troy had for hitting Clem. Who knows, he is probably respecting orders, so when the time is right he can go out of his way and turn on Carver. Or Carver could be pointing a gun at him and forcing him to hit Clem, we dont know what is happening outside the picture/Clip, we just jump to conclusions on what we see.
I wanna get one thing straight: Even if I like Carver from a story point of view, doesn't mean I approve or agree to what he's doing. I actually really enjoy reading other people's opinions about this whole thing, it's nice to see that this thread managed to do that.
I'm honestly not very angry at Troy; I'm more confused as to why people are leaping to his defense.
Edit: Yes, she is going a bad time and there are bad things than Troy hiting her, but still doesn't make it good, and it would suck if people just get normal to Troy's attitude, some people want him to have a good explanation about what he did, I don't think he has a explanation, I think nobody said to him something like " you have to hit clem or your family dies", that's stupid. I think that he just wanted to stop Clem and that first thing that came to his head was hit her.
Another Edit: Funny how now almost everyone agrees with you :)
"Clemtroversy when the main character gets beat"
Plus the only reason Clem has a sassy attitude is because of Christa. Whatever Christa taught Clem during the 16 months influences her behavior. Christa made a tough Clem. And after Omid's death that's when Christa expected Clem to become more tough and survive.
that does not mean I am gonna over rage and want to kill you guys XD
I myself..well..I didn't play S1, I am sad by her change but not angry at her...terrified at the idea of her blackmailing....I try to be nice and protective....and take advantage over the sassy dialogue as much as I can(which is actually not much XD)...I have unreasonable anger toward Christa but I guess I shouldn't.
You guys have to admit though when he hit Clem he hit right through everyone's heart due to them being Lee...specially as they turned from guardian (lee) to spectator/doer for everyone(Clementine)...heck I didn't play season 1 and I was shocked. If I were in Troy's place i would have just tried to grab Clem by the collar.
Its true though, we are being blind...aside from being a loyal follower we do not know everything about Troy and we shouldn't be ignoring it. If you guys are able to do that then by all means sure..not going to kill you guys for it...but I do not think I can yet P:
I do not think this is such a issue for it to be called "a forum divided" .....or being labeled hypocrite...you cant really generalized a forum..specially when it gets flourished with new members with different perspectives. Everyone is hating Troy not JUST because he hit a child, it is because they CARE about Clem.
sometimes a badass has to take a hit.