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The Decision I Think We All Though Was Cool But Then Regreted...

eRock92eRock92
edited May 2014 in The Walking Dead
...watching Kenny kill Carver. At first it seemed like a totally justified option, but then when you her Carver talk and see Clementine's reaction, I feel like we just justified everything Carver said. I think staying just opened awoken an extremely dark part of Clementine that I don't like. Hopefully I'm wrong. But let's discuss this. It there already is thread discussing this, than just give me the link and close this one. If not, let's get to talking.

Comments

  • Alex452Alex452
    I like to think that as the game goes on you can dictate how much Clem is becoming a monster. Still love Clem though.
  • LayorzLayorz
    I don't regret it. I'd have had Clem kill Carver herself if I could
  • runnersandwalkersrunnersandwalkers
    Still not regreteing that seeing Carvers face be smashed up by Kenny

    Karma is a bitch Carver :D
  • eRock92eRock92
    I just feel like watch Carver die is something Carver wanted. He hopes she stares as Kenny bashes his head in. It is almost as if Carver had to watch someone die brutally before and that is what turned him cold and eventually evil. Carver looks at Clem as if he's saying the dark transformation has begun and he is satisfied. I'd rather have Carver wounded, alive, and unsatisfied than watch him die knowing it is what he wanted. I mean c'mon, not even The Character Formerly Known As Bada$$ Jane watched. I still adore Clem, I just hope this doesn't turn her evil.
    Layorz posted: »

    I don't regret it. I'd have had Clem kill Carver herself if I could

  • VelociraptoriusVelociraptorius
    I don't regret doing it. Not one bit. In fact, I agree with Carver on a lot of points he raised. While his cruelty and dictatorship was too much, his statements on how the next generation has to be stronger than the previous one to survive are true. It's just that I believe there's a way to be a hard enough man to survive without being too much of a dick, which is what I'm aiming for Clementine to become.
  • eRock92eRock92
    I do, too. What if your choices from this season and last season cause the last final scene of episode 5 to reveal either a strong genuine Clementine or a dark evil Clementine? Your last image of Season 2 would be of a Clementine that is a product of your actions.
    Alex452 posted: »

    I like to think that as the game goes on you can dictate how much Clem is becoming a monster. Still love Clem though.

  • LeeAintDeadFFSLeeAintDeadFFS
    I actually thought it was cool. I think games like Assassin's Creed are fun but they don't deserve m/pegi 18 rating as they show no sign of damage other than blood.
  • Alex452Alex452
    That would be cool. I like Clem to still be nice like looking after sarah and hugging Kenny and stuff but I like that the darker side is peeping through.
    eRock92 posted: »

    I do, too. What if your choices from this season and last season cause the last final scene of episode 5 to reveal either a strong genuine

  • eRock92eRock92
    Oh I agree. Carver did make some good points. And this isn't the only time Clementine has watched someone kill another human (Lilly kills Carley/Doug, Lee kills the stranger, Omid getting shot then Christa killing the shooter, and there are probably more). I just feel like this one is a bit different. I think it would have been cooler if Clem had said something to Carver like "You're not worth my time" or "You don't deserve to have me watch you die" and walk away. Just my opinion though. I completely understand why someone would watch him die. I wanted it at first, but started second guessing myself. That's "The Walking Dead" for you: you can't go back on your decisions. You deal with it.
    Velociraptorius posted: »

    I don't regret doing it. Not one bit. In fact, I agree with Carver on a lot of points he raised. While his cruelty and dictatorship was too

  • OzzyUKOzzyUK Moderator
    I chose to leave. I don't want Clem losing her humanity yet.
  • eRock92eRock92
    Clem, Jane, and Sarah band together and create an Amazonian fortress free of men and walkers... Ok, I keed, I keed. But seriously though, there's something about Jane that makes me like her but not like her. She's too mysterious.
    Alex452 posted: »

    That would be cool. I like Clem to still be nice like looking after sarah and hugging Kenny and stuff but I like that the darker side is peeping through.

  • Alex452Alex452
    Haha I think Janes pretty cool too. The way she sort of calms Troy down then just shoots his dick off and walks away like a badass XD Im not getting on the wrong side of her
    eRock92 posted: »

    Clem, Jane, and Sarah band together and create an Amazonian fortress free of men and walkers... Ok, I keed, I keed. But seriously though, there's something about Jane that makes me like her but not like her. She's too mysterious.

  • SnownRavenSnownRaven
    I did choose "Just shoot him" but that was less about revenge for everything he had done and more because Carter is the kind of man who I wouldn't be surprised could survive being left for dead even if he was tied up somehow and really didn't want to look over my shoulder in case of that. I didn't want him tortured, I just wanted it over and done with it, a quick bullet through the head. I chose to stay because I thought it would give me the option to talk Kenny down or even put the bullet through Carter's head myself. I felt there were a lot of times throughout the episode where the player should have had the chance to say something but couldn't.

    Still, I did like that it forced the player to sit through the gruesome decisions rather than just skip over them as had you left but just missing the option to say something even if Kenny wouldn't have listened was kind of odd.
  • ZombiekittehZombiekitteh
    edited May 2014
    It's true that a person needs a strong will and hard heart in order to survive in this new world of theirs - but you can have those qualities, and still be human (showing compassion to others) at the same time.

    Clementine has a strong demeanor, but is still capable of compassion (looking out for others instead of being focused on her own survival) - Carver was incapable of this, as he was clearly out for himself and his own best interests; riding high on a power trip and disposing of those who opposed him or of whom he felt were weak.

    Being there to watch Carver die at Kenny's hands did not prove Carver's point, at all - as Clementine had to look away at several points (looking at Rebecca, looking down and away, closing her eyes - watching the scene unfold was hard for her). So, she's not as hard as Carver claimed she was.
  • ZombiekittehZombiekitteh
    Only problem is that by keeping him alive, the escapees would risk having his group chasing them down a second time - and being recaptured a second time would guarantee that they would not be shown any mercy (given that Clementine shot Carver's cheek and Kenny crippled him by taking out both his knees).

    We learned this outcome via The Govenor of Woodbury.
    eRock92 posted: »

    I just feel like watch Carver die is something Carver wanted. He hopes she stares as Kenny bashes his head in. It is almost as if Carver h

  • Alex452Alex452
    I think carvers group is still gonna come after Clem though
    Zombiekitteh posted: »

    Only problem is that by keeping him alive, the escapees would risk having his group chasing them down a second time - and being recaptured a

  • eRock92eRock92
    Jane: protagonist confirmed for Season 3!
    Alex452 posted: »

    Haha I think Janes pretty cool too. The way she sort of calms Troy down then just shoots his dick off and walks away like a badass XD Im not getting on the wrong side of her

  • MassadoniousMassadonious
    edited May 2014
    All the other human on human deaths Clementine witnessed were quick and fast. This was brutal for the sake of being brutal. It's okay for her to be hard, and tough. It's another for her to become a sadist. We don't want or need her to enjoy the act.
  • Alex452Alex452
    edited May 2014
    First decision of season 3 - Whos dick will you shoot off? Kenny's or Lukes?
    No don't answer that XD
    eRock92 posted: »

    Jane: protagonist confirmed for Season 3!

  • eRock92eRock92
    I bet Tavia will be the new Carver. I've seen some people speculate that Tavia was Carver's right hand man. After today, I totally see that being the case. Tavia = Carver 2.0.
    Alex452 posted: »

    I think carvers group is still gonna come after Clem though

  • Alex452Alex452
    Tavia could be the new leader and go after Clem and the group for revenge maybe?
    eRock92 posted: »

    I bet Tavia will be the new Carver. I've seen some people speculate that Tavia was Carver's right hand man. After today, I totally see that being the case. Tavia = Carver 2.0.

  • eRock92eRock92
    I just though of a reason to force you/Clementine to watch Carver get beaten. The lasting images of Carver's death will forever stay in Clem's mind. This is will be a reminder and a warning of what can and may happen to you when you become cold and power hungry. To Clem, turning into a "Carver" results in sort term success but drastic failure and death in the end. If Clem lives as she has done so far, she will go through tough times, but she will always wake up to live another day.
    Zombiekitteh posted: »

    It's true that a person needs a strong will and hard heart in order to survive in this new world of theirs - but you can have those qualitie

  • nickybellonickybello
    i lmfao so hard when troy said shot my dick off
  • KataleptKatalept
    I don't know about regretting it, but I think Jane is going to be the one to run a parallel personality to Carver, but perhaps without the need to control everyone. I think it's likely that Kenny may end up comparing Clem to Carver when deciding what to do about Sarita, only to realize he has to act the same way, too.
  • Lola_the_GuinLola_the_Guin
    You have a good point, but as of now, I don't regret it. I think that if Kenny had not killed Carver, Clementine would've (albeit in a much quicker way, probably a gunshot to the head). I think that if you're willing to support a man's execution, you should have the stones not to run away when it happens. Kind of like how Ned Stark in Game of Thrones says that the man who gives the sentence of death to someone should be willing to carry out the execution himself. Otherwise, you need to rethink whether they deserve to be executed. Now, if we're talking about HOW Carver was killed, I probably would have preferred to shoot him of that were an option.
  • JackoryKearnsJackoryKearns
    I watched for myself, then I realised Clem was watching, and instantly regretted it :(
  • craftyardcraftyard
    I don't care what Carver thinks. There's a clear difference between executing a murder, and murdering innocent people. I just watched to make sure he was dead and I don't regret it one bit.
  • Mr. MasamuneMr. Masamune
    I didn't stay out of sadism. I stayed because Clem is strong enough now to look ugly things in the face rather than run away from them or pretend they don't exist.
  • _Juice_Box__Juice_Box_
    I love Clem but jesus, I thought it was just to show other people that she's strong but then she almost enjoyed seeing him die, or said as if so at least... She's seen so much shit, I don't want her to become Sarah but she's too young to be like Kenny.
  • Lola_the_GuinLola_the_Guin
    I agree. If Carver would've lived, he most surely would have come after them yet again. They made the mistake of leaving that tyrant alive the first time, Clementine, Kenny, and Becca (the ones who stayed behind) were too smart to make that same mistake again.
    craftyard posted: »

    I don't care what Carver thinks. There's a clear difference between executing a murder, and murdering innocent people. I just watched to make sure he was dead and I don't regret it one bit.

  • eRock92eRock92
    Well actually, I don't think the walkers actually go inside. If Carver/Tavia's group can prevent the perimeter from breaching, they can just survive. They did have food and ammo for days on end.
    Alex452 posted: »

    Tavia could be the new leader and go after Clem and the group for revenge maybe?

  • MusicBoxMusicBox Banned
    Not really. I don't regret it at all. Carver was a monster who thought himself the strongest, a god who could mess with anyone he wanted simply because he thought them weak, my Clem isn't like at all that but still she watched it. She knows what kind of a psycho Carver was.
  • Alex452Alex452
    The episode does just end so maybe the walkers do break the perimeter and the guy on the roof earlier said he could see about 2 thousand walkers. They were doing a pretty good job at defending it though and I cant see them abandoning all that ammo and food either
    eRock92 posted: »

    Well actually, I don't think the walkers actually go inside. If Carver/Tavia's group can prevent the perimeter from breaching, they can just survive. They did have food and ammo for days on end.

  • Mr. MasamuneMr. Masamune
    edited May 2014
    A decision I did regret: when the time came to choose between hacking off Sarita's hand or killing the zombie chewing on that hand, I chose to kill the zombie. I did this because I thought the game was asking me whether I wanted to kill the zombie or give Sarita a mercy kill. I thought I was asked to choose between killing her or the zombie. To which my response was, 'Dude, it's just a hand. We've already got confirmation that a limb taken off early enough can save you. Sarita can still live.'

    If I went back, I'd hack her hand off. That's smarter. Get the poison out before it even has a chance.
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