technically, nicks entire presence in episode 3 looked more like an afterthought. "what do mean nick and alvin didn't die for some people? well shit, guess we better throw them in somewhere..."
Or maybe Carver's camp should have been completely seperate from Tavia's camp, that way; there are no problems with trying to write determinant characters into the story.
i dunno about that. at the very least, they should have a proper layout of the story as it'll progress. if they're seriously forcing a 90 mi… moren game to the detriment of everything else... then perhaps this game should have been planned to have more than just 5 episodes. it's a shame all we can do is guess that either the writing is bad, or they're just botching things in favor of play time. at the very least, the differences and plot holes are showing that the people aren't payin as much attention to things as they need to be.
i stand by the power struggle idea for carver's camp. sumthin happened to guy originally runnin it, and carver and luke stepped up, but carver was a bit more of a "take charge" kinda guy. everyone else had a decent place that had been pretty safe up till then, and ended up stickin around, slowly gettin used to how carver ran things, and tryin to adapt so they weren't killed or kicked out. it was a great place to be, so long as carver was happy with them.
alot more could and should have been done with it, tho. after all the hype about them tellin us to go and make sure we play 400 days, then to get sum brief scenes that only show that they're still alive, it was pretty disappointing.
Or maybe Carver's camp should have been completely seperate from Tavia's camp, that way; there are no problems with trying to write determinant characters into the story.
yeah man i hate this new amateur guy writter called Pierre shorette..i hope much for this episode and what happen with my 400 days characters for only see a small cameos with very poor lines.....really i sense much fast the story of this episode...bad interactions,inconsistences in story,this guy change the personality of carver for a crazy monster man....really this guy is a basic writter mediocre...next writter need fix this urgent.
I understand that, but if Telltale already has problems with developing Determinant Characters, since those kind of characters are marked for death and don't have much involvement in the story (although Ben changed the gameplay up a bit in Season 1 when his presence is the reason Lee potentially has ammo for Kenny when Ben, Kenny and Lee get trapped in the alley in "No Time Left"), then why bother bringing any "400 Days" characters into the mix at all. I understand that Bonnie's back-story was interesting with regards her dependency on others and her background involving drugs, but there are other characters that could add much more, especially the likes of Shel, Becca and Russel who have experience with camps similar to Carver's, but as we have seen in the most recent episode; they only acted as cameos since their appearance is determinant and it is probably difficult to shine a lot of light on their past since their appearance is based on whether or not Tavia is able to convince them to go with her, which results in Bonnie being the character who gets the most screentime out of the rest of the crowd since she goes with Tavia no matter what.
i stand by the power struggle idea for carver's camp. sumthin happened to guy originally runnin it, and carver and luke stepped up, but carv… moreer was a bit more of a "take charge" kinda guy. everyone else had a decent place that had been pretty safe up till then, and ended up stickin around, slowly gettin used to how carver ran things, and tryin to adapt so they weren't killed or kicked out. it was a great place to be, so long as carver was happy with them.
alot more could and should have been done with it, tho. after all the hype about them tellin us to go and make sure we play 400 days, then to get sum brief scenes that only show that they're still alive, it was pretty disappointing.
Yeah that new amateur write who also wrote the one of the most well received episodes of Wolf Among Us. We could lay everything at his feet and claim he is responsible for everything that is wrong with Season two if it weren't for the first two episodes having the same issues.
yeah man i hate this new amateur guy writter called Pierre shorette..i hope much for this episode and what happen with my 400 days character… mores for only see a small cameos with very poor lines.....really i sense much fast the story of this episode...bad interactions,inconsistences in story,this guy change the personality of carver for a crazy monster man....really this guy is a basic writter mediocre...next writter need fix this urgent.
what!!you compare the sh... of Wolf among us with the better game of walking dead?
you crazy...i not understood why they change the writter for other new guy...this guy Pierre shorette never participate in walking dead game....probably he never play dlc 400 days.... small cameos for best characters and the genius idea of add 2 new mediocre characters well i not understood...
this guy Pierre have much potential of 400 days carácter but never understood the use of they....really a mediocre guy and bad writer
Yeah that new amateur write who also wrote the one of the most well received episodes of Wolf Among Us. We could lay everything at his feet … moreand claim he is responsible for everything that is wrong with Season two if it weren't for the first two episodes having the same issues.
No, *Wolf Among Us* is not shit. *Faith* left me more interested than *All That Remains* did, and you should really check it out... then you have *Smoke and Mirrors*. :/ Shorette wrote a good episode, facts are facts. That is why I had high hopes for this one, because I had a positively good impression of his previous work.
Maybe the change in themes was too much, maybe some faults in the characters and in the writing can be attributed to him, but he was also limited by TT's new design approach. Many of the issues here mentioned span the whole season, they are not exclusive to one episode.
what!!you compare the sh... of Wolf among us with the better game of walking dead?
you crazy...i not understood why they change the … morewritter for other new guy...this guy Pierre shorette never participate in walking dead game....probably he never play dlc 400 days.... small cameos for best characters and the genius idea of add 2 new mediocre characters well i not understood...
this guy Pierre have much potential of 400 days carácter but never understood the use of they....really a mediocre guy and bad writer
Yeah, because the idea that Wolf Among Us is shit and The Walking Dead is far superior is just your opinion. Not a fact. Season one also featured various different writers. The suggestion he has played 400 Days is complete speculation and frankly implausible as well. Episodes one and two have the same issues a point which is being ignored. All much as people would like to the blame for people's issues with episode three can't be attributed to just one person.
what!!you compare the sh... of Wolf among us with the better game of walking dead?
you crazy...i not understood why they change the … morewritter for other new guy...this guy Pierre shorette never participate in walking dead game....probably he never play dlc 400 days.... small cameos for best characters and the genius idea of add 2 new mediocre characters well i not understood...
this guy Pierre have much potential of 400 days carácter but never understood the use of they....really a mediocre guy and bad writer
I don't think the writer of ep3 is bad, the episode itself was good and so was his episode of The Wolf Among Us. But in relation to the rest of season2 his episode was inconsistent and made the problems of the previous 2 episodes worse instead of fixing them. Makes it seem like TTG was just like "here write this" instead of "this has happened so far, this is what you need to address in this episode, and this is where it needs to end up."
Personally, I feel the whole season has been an utter disappointment of storytelling, character development and game design.
We started from scratch in Ep1, where there was a clear determination on the writers' part to quickly eliminate any connection to the previous series. We then get thrown into a whole new group, which is ok, but then the whole series ought to be about growing connections with them. Instead, the group grows again in Ep2 and again in Ep3. Meanwhile, people are dropping left, right and centre before we can say more than hello - we have no time to get to know anyone because of the need to be constantly introduced to new characters. We don't care when they these characters die like we did in the previous series. Most of the deaths are instantaneous - death for death's sake. No agonising over whether to ask Clem to shoot Lee or not, two characters we connected with more than in Ep1 of series 1 than any character introduced in Ep1 series 2 who still lives in Ep3. No need to step up to help Kenny end Duck's suffering. No boy in the attic. No dog to dig up. In fact, not a lot of anything. We're sitting, watching, barely interacting, saying nothing more than hello every now and then.
Not only the above, but bringing Kenny back was a mistake on two fronts:
1) The writers have managed to cheapen one of those great moments of sacrifice from series 1, so they're not only writing poorly in series 2 (in my opinion), but weakening what is already written;
2) I'm not up on who is writing these episodes, apart from the guy who wrote series 2 Ep3 is the guy who did AWAU Ep 1, which I loved (so no hate directed towards the writers themselves), but Kenny is crap in series 2. They either said all they needed to say about him in series 1, have forgotten how to write him or simply don't know how to write him.
Hmmmm, that might have been a little bitchy, but I'm trying to be as constructive as I can.
And Carver could possibly have been the most interesting character in the whole series, as others have pointed out. I won't pull my punches there - that character was written attrociously.
Kenny's fate was left uncertain in season one though. The door was already left open for his return in season one. Looking back on it it's rather obvious that the intention always to bring him back.
Personally, I feel the whole season has been an utter disappointment of storytelling, character development and game design.
We started… more from scratch in Ep1, where there was a clear determination on the writers' part to quickly eliminate any connection to the previous series. We then get thrown into a whole new group, which is ok, but then the whole series ought to be about growing connections with them. Instead, the group grows again in Ep2 and again in Ep3. Meanwhile, people are dropping left, right and centre before we can say more than hello - we have no time to get to know anyone because of the need to be constantly introduced to new characters. We don't care when they these characters die like we did in the previous series. Most of the deaths are instantaneous - death for death's sake. No agonising over whether to ask Clem to shoot Lee or not, two characters we connected with more than in Ep1 of series 1 than any character introduce… [view original content]
you couldn't even call that "talking". carlos gets pulled away, sarah says "dont bother me, i'm tryin to be good", rebecca is just tryin to … moreget over the shock of whatever's befallen alvin, mike is grumpy, jane just kinda glares you away, and nick gets a 1 liner. the only people to talk are kenny and reggie.
I kinda understand the situation with Nick, because you've already had a change to get him killed you know
I just dont think he'll be useful anymore and will get killed in some point :( Too bad, I loved him so much
If an uncertainty in a story turns out to be be rather obvious, then it was never an uncertainty. If Kenny's 'death' scene was staged in this way, then we're looking at writers with the skill of soap opera writers. I'm possibly the world's largest cynic (or at least tied in top place), but I saw enough from series 1 to suggest that the writers understood how to make the player grow attached to characters, could write realistic interactive dialogues with grey outcomes and knew how to tell a story. There are lots of uncertainties in series 1 - by this reasoning, it's rather obvious the guy who left in the (pizza delivery?) vehicle in Ep2 will be back - or maybe, it's that uncertainty that makes the story so engaging.
Regarding Kenny, I'm going to turn my cynicism onto the players and the writers/designers of series 2. There was a campaign to bring Kenny back for series 2 from the player-base because his death was off-screen and therefore 'uncertain'. It was his survival that was more implausible, but the player-base are those soap opera writers. The writers/designers sacrificed continuity/story for the popular vote and couldn't even come up with a means of survival - that's how 'uncertain' his death was originally written.
Kenny's fate was left uncertain in season one though. The door was already left open for his return in season one. Looking back on it it's rather obvious that the intention always to bring him back.
His explanation of his survival in season one was certainly weak. However we never saw him die and his survival was already hinted at in the end of the first season. In addition to Telltale stating his fate would be explored in season two would rather suggest that he never died in season one.
Glenn would only be uncertain if you hadn't read the comic.
If an uncertainty in a story turns out to be be rather obvious, then it was never an uncertainty. If Kenny's 'death' scene was staged in thi… mores way, then we're looking at writers with the skill of soap opera writers. I'm possibly the world's largest cynic (or at least tied in top place), but I saw enough from series 1 to suggest that the writers understood how to make the player grow attached to characters, could write realistic interactive dialogues with grey outcomes and knew how to tell a story. There are lots of uncertainties in series 1 - by this reasoning, it's rather obvious the guy who left in the (pizza delivery?) vehicle in Ep2 will be back - or maybe, it's that uncertainty that makes the story so engaging.
Regarding Kenny, I'm going to turn my cynicism onto the players and the writers/designers of series 2. There was a campaign to bring Kenny back for series 2 from the player-base because his death was off-screen and therefore '… [view original content]
I wouldn't say hate the new writer. The episode was pretty good. It's just they built up the story like the cabin group was hiding something and Carver may have had his own side of the story. However in the cabin group's secrets were just forgotten and they just made Carver a total douchebag.
I didn't hate it. I did feel that Carver lost a lot of his impact because he became too cartoon madman rather than complex scary leader. I also felt that the 400 days crew were so underutilised that it made me wonder what the point of having them was.
As for Nick... it was a shame to see him only have a few lines, but given how many characters they were having to juggle that episode, I'm fine with that for now.
I definitely felt this was the weakest episode in the series so far. It wasn't that it felt rushed so much as a mix of good and not quite as good writing. For me Carver was the weakest link. Troy was a better menacing character because he felt like a real person. Carver felt to me like they were trying too hard. But then having the whole Carver storyline play out in a single episode was the mistake here. The community needed either a longer episode or two episodes.
I'm definitely disappointed. I never felt that way with season one. It was entertaining, but not the same calibre as the episodes in season one. I keep hoping it will be better in the next episode, but IMO it hasn't happened. I'm still wondering what happened to christa as well as the story on the missing baby. I hope TTG monitors customer feedback.
ive liked all the episodes,2 stood out because of the location and scenary and Kenny ofc,but if you were being overly critical you could say 1 and 3 were easy to complete,and of course not letting us see Omid & Christa reunite with Clem is a major suck ass moment...
The writer doesn't unilaterally decide '90 minutes and no hubs.' He works within those constraints imposed from above. The writer is doing the best he can with what he's been told to do and not do.
there were 2 ways for it to go. if you investigated the gate and the gap in the fence, reggie would try to tell clem to stop and kenny would placate him, then troy walked in and reggie got yelled at for clem sneakin around. if you talked to kenny before that, then you look like you're behaving, reggie is more or less left alone, and the group is just yelled at to go to sleep.
Did you walk around looking at objects before you spoke to Kenny? For me, the story proceeded without talking to him. I managed to look at t… morehe objects around the room and talk to Nick, Sarah, and Rebecca. It made me think the hub was timed. But if that wasn't the case (and it's just a bug), I do recall on one of the Playing Dead videos, it was said they have to balance between those who want to talk to everyone and those who just want to get on with the storyline. That might've been what you experienced.
i've got a feeling that bonnie's connection to luke is gonna be that whatever she was on back in 400 days is the same thing that luke's hooked on. in season 2, she's more or less healthy, and no reason to suspect she used to be an addict, but luke looked more like he was goin through withdrawal, and not entirely a lack of sleep or hunger...
Hmm, I only looked at the gate, I didn't try to fiddle with it (which seems to be what agitates Reggie) and I never spoke to Kenny either. Must of been a bug then.
In a game like this? Hell no.
The writer doesn't unilaterally decide '90 minutes and no hubs.' He works within those constraints imposed from above. The writer is doing the best he can with what he's been told to do and not do.
Hell no.
It's just the 90 minutes limit. He has had other ideas, but only the best were taken. Then they had to take the best points of his best ideas.
I really like this episode though.
Comments
alot more could and should have been done with it, tho. after all the hype about them tellin us to go and make sure we play 400 days, then to get sum brief scenes that only show that they're still alive, it was pretty disappointing.
you crazy...i not understood why they change the writter for other new guy...this guy Pierre shorette never participate in walking dead game....probably he never play dlc 400 days.... small cameos for best characters and the genius idea of add 2 new mediocre characters well i not understood...
this guy Pierre have much potential of 400 days carácter but never understood the use of they....really a mediocre guy and bad writer
Maybe the change in themes was too much, maybe some faults in the characters and in the writing can be attributed to him, but he was also limited by TT's new design approach. Many of the issues here mentioned span the whole season, they are not exclusive to one episode.
We started from scratch in Ep1, where there was a clear determination on the writers' part to quickly eliminate any connection to the previous series. We then get thrown into a whole new group, which is ok, but then the whole series ought to be about growing connections with them. Instead, the group grows again in Ep2 and again in Ep3. Meanwhile, people are dropping left, right and centre before we can say more than hello - we have no time to get to know anyone because of the need to be constantly introduced to new characters. We don't care when they these characters die like we did in the previous series. Most of the deaths are instantaneous - death for death's sake. No agonising over whether to ask Clem to shoot Lee or not, two characters we connected with more than in Ep1 of series 1 than any character introduced in Ep1 series 2 who still lives in Ep3. No need to step up to help Kenny end Duck's suffering. No boy in the attic. No dog to dig up. In fact, not a lot of anything. We're sitting, watching, barely interacting, saying nothing more than hello every now and then.
Not only the above, but bringing Kenny back was a mistake on two fronts:
1) The writers have managed to cheapen one of those great moments of sacrifice from series 1, so they're not only writing poorly in series 2 (in my opinion), but weakening what is already written;
2) I'm not up on who is writing these episodes, apart from the guy who wrote series 2 Ep3 is the guy who did AWAU Ep 1, which I loved (so no hate directed towards the writers themselves), but Kenny is crap in series 2. They either said all they needed to say about him in series 1, have forgotten how to write him or simply don't know how to write him.
Hmmmm, that might have been a little bitchy, but I'm trying to be as constructive as I can.
And Carver could possibly have been the most interesting character in the whole series, as others have pointed out. I won't pull my punches there - that character was written attrociously.
I just dont think he'll be useful anymore and will get killed in some point :( Too bad, I loved him so much
Regarding Kenny, I'm going to turn my cynicism onto the players and the writers/designers of series 2. There was a campaign to bring Kenny back for series 2 from the player-base because his death was off-screen and therefore 'uncertain'. It was his survival that was more implausible, but the player-base are those soap opera writers. The writers/designers sacrificed continuity/story for the popular vote and couldn't even come up with a means of survival - that's how 'uncertain' his death was originally written.
Glenn would only be uncertain if you hadn't read the comic.
As for Nick... it was a shame to see him only have a few lines, but given how many characters they were having to juggle that episode, I'm fine with that for now.
I definitely felt this was the weakest episode in the series so far. It wasn't that it felt rushed so much as a mix of good and not quite as good writing. For me Carver was the weakest link. Troy was a better menacing character because he felt like a real person. Carver felt to me like they were trying too hard. But then having the whole Carver storyline play out in a single episode was the mistake here. The community needed either a longer episode or two episodes.
The writer doesn't unilaterally decide '90 minutes and no hubs.' He works within those constraints imposed from above. The writer is doing the best he can with what he's been told to do and not do.
Kinda ironic. The game is too short and the tv show is too long and drawn out. Lol.
It's just the 90 minutes limit. He has had other ideas, but only the best were taken. Then they had to take the best points of his best ideas.
I really like this episode though.