When has Luke ever 'forced' the idea of being Clem's guardian? If anything, Kenny is the one that immediately made assumptions about where Clem was going to stay in E2, and unlike Luke, 'remembers' if you don't sit with his group at dinner.
A). It looked like they beckoned her over at the same time to me.
B). There was already a catching up scene at the fireplace, and it's up to the player to decide whether they wanted additional time to do so at dinner.
C). 'Catching up' doesn't equal Kenny declaring Clem is staying at the lodge while the group leaves without even asking her and then picking a fight about it.
You're perfectly free to think Kenny is the better guardian for her, but it's plain as day Kenny is the one that hasn't been giving Clem enough agency to make her own decision about the matter, not Luke.
If you sit with Kenny, Luke and Nick come over and start insulting Kenny's plan to go to Wellington and also tell Kenny not ask him that Clem is going with them in the morning. Of course Kenny is going to put up a fight but he didn't start the argument. Then when you tell Luke you are staying with Kenny, Luke starts to get all butthurt about it.
A). It looked like they beckoned her over at the same time to me.
B). There was already a catching up scene at the fireplace, and it's up … moreto the player to decide whether they wanted additional time to do so at dinner.
C). 'Catching up' doesn't equal Kenny declaring Clem is staying at the lodge while the group leaves without even asking her and then picking a fight about it.
You're perfectly free to think Kenny is the better guardian for her, but it's plain as day Kenny is the one that hasn't been giving Clem enough agency to make her own decision about the matter, not Luke.
You really think that a few phrases dialogue at the fireplace was enough? For people who dislike Kenny that was too much, but for the rest (I don't like making assumptions, but I will), it wasn't enough.
Kenny might have been wrong, but, let's face it, Clementine wasn't given any chance to make her own decisions. Leave on her own and let the cabin group sort their problems out - "I'm sorry to involve you, but you'll be safer with us". I can't argue with that (mostly), but it was hardly Clem's own decision. It isn't just Kenny who does something like this.
A). It looked like they beckoned her over at the same time to me.
B). There was already a catching up scene at the fireplace, and it's up … moreto the player to decide whether they wanted additional time to do so at dinner.
C). 'Catching up' doesn't equal Kenny declaring Clem is staying at the lodge while the group leaves without even asking her and then picking a fight about it.
You're perfectly free to think Kenny is the better guardian for her, but it's plain as day Kenny is the one that hasn't been giving Clem enough agency to make her own decision about the matter, not Luke.
I sat with Kenny at dinner to catch up with him some more too, but I was just making a point that that wasn't the first chance he had to talk to Clementine at length.
And I don't disagree with you on the other point either, there's a lot of illusion of choice in this game, but I'm just confused by the idea that somehow Luke is being overbearing and "forcing" his way into a guardianship role with Clem. Between him and Kenny, Luke's been way less vocal about her disagreeing with the idea of sticking with him/them or about her disagreeing with him in general.
You really think that a few phrases dialogue at the fireplace was enough? For people who dislike Kenny that was too much, but for the rest (… moreI don't like making assumptions, but I will), it wasn't enough.
Kenny might have been wrong, but, let's face it, Clementine wasn't given any chance to make her own decisions. Leave on her own and let the cabin group sort their problems out - "I'm sorry to involve you, but you'll be safer with us". I can't argue with that (mostly), but it was hardly Clem's own decision. It isn't just Kenny who does something like this.
Maybe it stems from the fact that Luke, who is acquainted with Clem for about a week, can't really argue with someone who has known her for since the beginning of ZA.
I sat with Kenny at dinner to catch up with him some more too, but I was just making a point that that wasn't the first chance he had to tal… morek to Clementine at length.
And I don't disagree with you on the other point either, there's a lot of illusion of choice in this game, but I'm just confused by the idea that somehow Luke is being overbearing and "forcing" his way into a guardianship role with Clem. Between him and Kenny, Luke's been way less vocal about her disagreeing with the idea of sticking with him/them or about her disagreeing with him in general.
This is not fair.
Kenny asked something about Matthew? No...
So the game writer didn't gave about a shit these things... Bad game writing in here. This is the true.
I like episode 3, but it was too fast for me.
If you sit with Kenny, Luke and Nick come over and start insulting Kenny's plan to go to Wellington and also tell Kenny not ask him that Cle… morem is going with them in the morning. Of course Kenny is going to put up a fight but he didn't start the argument. Then when you tell Luke you are staying with Kenny, Luke starts to get all butthurt about it.
On the contrary, some people, myself included, never felt like Kenny and Clementine had a particularly present relationship in S1. I think their bond really deepened and progressed in E3 of this season, but during E2, I was happy enough to see Kenny and sat with him, but mostly out of nostalgia and 'whoa, you're alive' feelings. My Clem felt closer to Luke after two episodes than to Kenny after all of S1.
Maybe it stems from the fact that Luke, who is acquainted with Clem for about a week, can't really argue with someone who has known her for since the beginning of ZA.
And why is that? Because of a poor remark? I think arguing about Wellington was something that made this conversation sour.
Oh, and by the way, this remark only made Nick pissed. Granted they might have been more civil, but I don't think Kenny and Nick would've gotten along at that table anyway.
And this is where "forced" comes in. I'm not talking about you, in particular, or about anybody at all.
Because of this illusion of choice, we can't really make decisions. I never asked for Luke to be around Clem, but the game seems to force him to be around her (the opposite is also true). I don't feel close to Luke, and though they have a dynamic, it seems forced because there is no other choice.
I agree about Kenny and Clem not having any sort of relationship prior to Season 1, but, being acquainted (if not actively involved in conversations or anything) for almost 3 years still accounts for more than a week of a relationship we didn't even see.
On the contrary, some people, myself included, never felt like Kenny and Clementine had a particularly present relationship in S1. I think t… moreheir bond really deepened and progressed in E3 of this season, but during E2, I was happy enough to see Kenny and sat with him, but mostly out of nostalgia and 'whoa, you're alive' feelings. My Clem felt closer to Luke after two episodes than to Kenny after all of S1.
So we meet Luke in the forest and get our ass saved by him and Pete. Fair play, he's just helped a little girl which I'm sure anyone with a level head would. On the way back to the cabin Luke spots the blood on the arm and throws Clem to the floor. Why would you do that? Ok so there is blood on there and it might be a bite and I can understand you would be in shock but she isn't going to turn that very second. Then he starts vocally assaulting her about it.
So we finally get back to the cabin. Everyone starts suggesting we put Clem in the shed. EVERYONE. Luke isn't opposed to the idea of it, he might say to give her the benefit of the doubt but doesn't do anything amazing to stop us going in. He won't even give you any blankets or food, not even a little something to clean it up. Alvin give more of a shit than him.
Nothing much happened at dinner I would consider dickish. He was quite friendly towards Clem.
Episode 2 is when his inner douche begins to shine. So were getting away from the cabin because Carver is following us. This means that the cabin group has pulled us into THEIR problems. Ok then, I guess we were back at the house when that happened so it's not really anyones fault.
Luke was nice letting Clem take the small walker no keep her out of any danger. He respects her even if she wants to go for the big walker so he gets brownie points for that.
Crossing the bridge. Talking to Matthew, why let a little girl do all the talking? Is he an idiot. You don't entrust a little girl with something that dangerous. The guy had a gun and could of been anyone.
So this part is what adds Luke some dick points. When Nick comes running in with a rifle what does Luke do? He starts shouting and flailing his arms around like he is in destress. Isn't that gonna trigger something in Nick? I mean it looked like he and Clem were at gunpoint and they needed help. If anything, Matthews death was Luke's fault. Then he has the nerve to verbaly abuse Nick about it and pin the blame on him AND bring Pete into the equasion.
Dinner table time. So you take a seat with whoever you want but I'll focus on the Kenny one because I know it best (Wonder why? ;) ). So Kenny asks you if you want to stay, lets just say you say that beforehand and you have both agreed upon this. You've went over to catch up with Kenny, the guy you haven't seen in 2 years. Then Nick and Luke can't be away from you for 5 fuckin' seconds and invite the table. If they took a seat and then small talked then that's fine but Luke lays down ground rules what he is taking Clem and Nick insults Kenny's plan. That's when he takes offense and fights back. He didn't start the argument. Then if you tell Luke you are staying with Kenny he gets all butthurt about it and thinks you should head out with him and the group because you've known them a week and they've done SO much for you.
So now Luke has finally clicked on that Matthew was part of the lodge group. He then wants to hide the knife and lie to Walter. Don't you think he should have a right to know? Luke certainly doesn't and then he wants you to lie to Nick about it. If you disagree he starts to verbally assault Nick and Clem about it. Practically forcing you to throw out the knife and lie regardless about what you think.
Near the end he takes off when the group is in danger by Carver. Wow great going Luke, hope you enjoy the hike. Kenny and Luke could of rescued the group together if it wasn't for him taking off like that. Kenny stood a good chance by himself. If we had two people taking on Carver and his goons I'm sure we would of stood a much better chance.
Episode 3. So Luke is absent for most of the episode, well about half. He finally comes back and has an 'amazing' plan to sneak past 25 armed guards and steal some radios. Nice going Luke. Although I give him respect for not having food and sleep for possibly 2 days or more.
However his stupidity and plan cost Kenny an eye and the man took a beating for him, in turn loosing his eye. It could of been Luke or someone from the cabin group taking that beating if Kenny didn't step up.
Then scumbag Luke comes out of nowhere and suggests we just leave Kenny behind, the man that took a beating for him. I can understand where Luke is coming from because if it was anyone else asides from Kenny and Sarita I would of been ok leaving them behind and I'm sure Kenny would but come on Luke at least show some respect for the guy.
Now 'hardass Luke' is gone and ' no balls Luke' has taken the stage. Carver, the bastard that captured them, tortured many of them, caused hurt and pain, murdered several people and brought down suffering to more than a few people. Luke thinks killing him 'isn't right'. What is up with that? He was fine leaving Kenny behind beforehand and now it comes to wiping this scumbag off the earth and he's having a hard time? Dafuq Luke?
Not saying you have to agree but this is just my opinion on Luke.
That's fair enough. I do think people that don't feel connected to Luke should have an option to express/act as much, same goes for any other character.
I guess it's just a difference in perspective. To me, Kenny in S1 was a guy Clem felt for, went through some shit with, but the personal, individual bond wasn't there. There was enough between her and Luke in the first two episodes, for me, and that's what I prioritize: quality of the specific relationship over quantity of time, and thus Kenny didn't have an automatic leg-up for me just because he has more of the latter.
And this is where "forced" comes in. I'm not talking about you, in particular, or about anybody at all.
Because of this illusion of cho… moreice, we can't really make decisions. I never asked for Luke to be around Clem, but the game seems to force him to be around her (the opposite is also true). I don't feel close to Luke, and though they have a dynamic, it seems forced because there is no other choice.
I agree about Kenny and Clem not having any sort of relationship prior to Season 1, but, being acquainted (if not actively involved in conversations or anything) for almost 3 years still accounts for more than a week of a relationship we didn't even see.
That's fair enough. I do think people that don't feel connected to Luke should have an option to express/act as much, same goes for any othe… morer character.
I guess it's just a difference in perspective. To me, Kenny in S1 was a guy Clem felt for, went through some shit with, but the personal, individual bond wasn't there. There was enough between her and Luke in the first two episodes, for me, and that's what I prioritize: quality of the specific relationship over quantity of time, and thus Kenny didn't have an automatic leg-up for me just because he has more of the latter.
After the remark is made, Luke stops eating to throw an angry glance at Kenny while Nick asks: "What the Hell is that supposed to mean." It clearly bothers them both although Luke isn't a confrontational guy so tries to remain somewhat civil but Nick meets Kenny's attitude head on.
I do agree with your last statement though about how they wouldn't have gotten along anyway. Kenny and Nick are just as brash and confrontational as each other. Throw in Kenny's jealousy and things were never going to turn out pretty.
And why is that? Because of a poor remark? I think arguing about Wellington was something that made this conversation sour.
Oh, and by … morethe way, this remark only made Nick pissed. Granted they might have been more civil, but I don't think Kenny and Nick would've gotten along at that table anyway.
Hmm, I have a bit of trouble remembering every detail of an episode, but if that's the case, then I'll retract my statement about only Nick getting pissed.
After the remark is made, Luke stops eating to throw an angry glance at Kenny while Nick asks: "What the Hell is that supposed to mean." It … moreclearly bothers them both although Luke isn't a confrontational guy so tries to remain somewhat civil but Nick meets Kenny's attitude head on.
I do agree with your last statement though about how they wouldn't have gotten along anyway. Kenny and Nick are just as brash and confrontational as each other. Throw in Kenny's jealousy and things were never going to turn out pretty.
The reason I don't like Luke is he skedaddles off every time something dangerous happens. He dropped Clem when he noticed there was blood on… more her sleeve and started verbally attacking her, trying to, FORCING Nick and Clem to stay quiet and lie about Matthew's death, taking off when Carver showed up, suggesting they leave Kenny and Sarita behind.
I'll like Luke more once he grows a pair.
Exactly, so if we judge luke for this, we're essentially saying he's bad in the same way Kenny is, which should hopefully remove lots of the Kenny fanboys who only dislike Luke because Kenny does.
Exactly, so if we judge luke for this, we're essentially saying he's bad in the same way Kenny is, which should hopefully remove lots of the Kenny fanboys who only dislike Luke because Kenny does.
Yes Luke save Clem, so she can meet Kenny, and here is the chance to meet with Christa. If Luke didn't show up, then she would it be dead.
I really don't like this Kenny is the big hero always, because the game writer don't give a shit about the other characters. I like Kenny, but this game has so many another good characters too...
kenny is a ass....if you dont help him in the meat locker he leave you about to be killed by one of the dairy brother... next ep he wants you not to shoot that poor women because her screams would bring walker to her....he has no problem about this women suffering a horrible death...and skip to the end if you dont kiss his ass during s1 e1 to e4 he abandons you and clem a girl he knows just hourers lest then lee...a farther i may add..
People who say Kenny looks out for Clem needs to take a step back and realise how screwed we will be if we don't have his back. We didn't have Luke's back with the whole not telling Walter about Matthew and he STILL will come to save you.
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B). There was already a catching up scene at the fireplace, and it's up to the player to decide whether they wanted additional time to do so at dinner.
C). 'Catching up' doesn't equal Kenny declaring Clem is staying at the lodge while the group leaves without even asking her and then picking a fight about it.
You're perfectly free to think Kenny is the better guardian for her, but it's plain as day Kenny is the one that hasn't been giving Clem enough agency to make her own decision about the matter, not Luke.
Kenny might have been wrong, but, let's face it, Clementine wasn't given any chance to make her own decisions. Leave on her own and let the cabin group sort their problems out - "I'm sorry to involve you, but you'll be safer with us". I can't argue with that (mostly), but it was hardly Clem's own decision. It isn't just Kenny who does something like this.
And I don't disagree with you on the other point either, there's a lot of illusion of choice in this game, but I'm just confused by the idea that somehow Luke is being overbearing and "forcing" his way into a guardianship role with Clem. Between him and Kenny, Luke's been way less vocal about her disagreeing with the idea of sticking with him/them or about her disagreeing with him in general.
Oh, and by the way, this remark only made Nick pissed. Granted they might have been more civil, but I don't think Kenny and Nick would've gotten along at that table anyway.
Because of this illusion of choice, we can't really make decisions. I never asked for Luke to be around Clem, but the game seems to force him to be around her (the opposite is also true). I don't feel close to Luke, and though they have a dynamic, it seems forced because there is no other choice.
I agree about Kenny and Clem not having any sort of relationship prior to Season 1, but, being acquainted (if not actively involved in conversations or anything) for almost 3 years still accounts for more than a week of a relationship we didn't even see.
So we meet Luke in the forest and get our ass saved by him and Pete. Fair play, he's just helped a little girl which I'm sure anyone with a level head would. On the way back to the cabin Luke spots the blood on the arm and throws Clem to the floor. Why would you do that? Ok so there is blood on there and it might be a bite and I can understand you would be in shock but she isn't going to turn that very second. Then he starts vocally assaulting her about it.
So we finally get back to the cabin. Everyone starts suggesting we put Clem in the shed. EVERYONE. Luke isn't opposed to the idea of it, he might say to give her the benefit of the doubt but doesn't do anything amazing to stop us going in. He won't even give you any blankets or food, not even a little something to clean it up. Alvin give more of a shit than him.
Nothing much happened at dinner I would consider dickish. He was quite friendly towards Clem.
Episode 2 is when his inner douche begins to shine. So were getting away from the cabin because Carver is following us. This means that the cabin group has pulled us into THEIR problems. Ok then, I guess we were back at the house when that happened so it's not really anyones fault.
Luke was nice letting Clem take the small walker no keep her out of any danger. He respects her even if she wants to go for the big walker so he gets brownie points for that.
Crossing the bridge. Talking to Matthew, why let a little girl do all the talking? Is he an idiot. You don't entrust a little girl with something that dangerous. The guy had a gun and could of been anyone.
So this part is what adds Luke some dick points. When Nick comes running in with a rifle what does Luke do? He starts shouting and flailing his arms around like he is in destress. Isn't that gonna trigger something in Nick? I mean it looked like he and Clem were at gunpoint and they needed help. If anything, Matthews death was Luke's fault. Then he has the nerve to verbaly abuse Nick about it and pin the blame on him AND bring Pete into the equasion.
Dinner table time. So you take a seat with whoever you want but I'll focus on the Kenny one because I know it best (Wonder why? ;) ). So Kenny asks you if you want to stay, lets just say you say that beforehand and you have both agreed upon this. You've went over to catch up with Kenny, the guy you haven't seen in 2 years. Then Nick and Luke can't be away from you for 5 fuckin' seconds and invite the table. If they took a seat and then small talked then that's fine but Luke lays down ground rules what he is taking Clem and Nick insults Kenny's plan. That's when he takes offense and fights back. He didn't start the argument. Then if you tell Luke you are staying with Kenny he gets all butthurt about it and thinks you should head out with him and the group because you've known them a week and they've done SO much for you.
So now Luke has finally clicked on that Matthew was part of the lodge group. He then wants to hide the knife and lie to Walter. Don't you think he should have a right to know? Luke certainly doesn't and then he wants you to lie to Nick about it. If you disagree he starts to verbally assault Nick and Clem about it. Practically forcing you to throw out the knife and lie regardless about what you think.
Near the end he takes off when the group is in danger by Carver. Wow great going Luke, hope you enjoy the hike. Kenny and Luke could of rescued the group together if it wasn't for him taking off like that. Kenny stood a good chance by himself. If we had two people taking on Carver and his goons I'm sure we would of stood a much better chance.
Episode 3. So Luke is absent for most of the episode, well about half. He finally comes back and has an 'amazing' plan to sneak past 25 armed guards and steal some radios. Nice going Luke. Although I give him respect for not having food and sleep for possibly 2 days or more.
However his stupidity and plan cost Kenny an eye and the man took a beating for him, in turn loosing his eye. It could of been Luke or someone from the cabin group taking that beating if Kenny didn't step up.
Then scumbag Luke comes out of nowhere and suggests we just leave Kenny behind, the man that took a beating for him. I can understand where Luke is coming from because if it was anyone else asides from Kenny and Sarita I would of been ok leaving them behind and I'm sure Kenny would but come on Luke at least show some respect for the guy.
Now 'hardass Luke' is gone and ' no balls Luke' has taken the stage. Carver, the bastard that captured them, tortured many of them, caused hurt and pain, murdered several people and brought down suffering to more than a few people. Luke thinks killing him 'isn't right'. What is up with that? He was fine leaving Kenny behind beforehand and now it comes to wiping this scumbag off the earth and he's having a hard time? Dafuq Luke?
Not saying you have to agree but this is just my opinion on Luke.
I guess it's just a difference in perspective. To me, Kenny in S1 was a guy Clem felt for, went through some shit with, but the personal, individual bond wasn't there. There was enough between her and Luke in the first two episodes, for me, and that's what I prioritize: quality of the specific relationship over quantity of time, and thus Kenny didn't have an automatic leg-up for me just because he has more of the latter.
And Kenny and Clem's relationship did improve/strengthen over two episodes of Season 2, but you already made that point.
I do agree with your last statement though about how they wouldn't have gotten along anyway. Kenny and Nick are just as brash and confrontational as each other. Throw in Kenny's jealousy and things were never going to turn out pretty.
I just "googled" and google told me...
"search for information about (someone or something) on the Internet using the search engine Google."
Happy googling.
Err....what? Clem always has the option of telling walter, there's no 'forcing' going on. He just suggests not telling him.
It fits with his character.
I really don't like this Kenny is the big hero always, because the game writer don't give a shit about the other characters. I like Kenny, but this game has so many another good characters too...
Always do the best choice for the group. Yes this thing seems so evil, but the life is not fair, like Luke said.
After Kenny beating up by Carver:
Luke said: Look, i know part of this is my fault, i-- i know.
Not so many character admit his own fault. But this not was 100% Luke's fault.
People who say Kenny looks out for Clem needs to take a step back and realise how screwed we will be if we don't have his back. We didn't have Luke's back with the whole not telling Walter about Matthew and he STILL will come to save you.