Luke is optimistic. Nick isn't. He was giving a valid point to Nick, if Clementine, an 11 year old girl, can walk through a herd of walkers, then Nick, an early to mid 20 year old, can do it too. It's not patronizing him, it's helping him.
Nick has lost a lot, but so has Luke. Nick says "I wish I was like Luke, that I can just move on" (not exact words, but something along the line of that), Well, him doubting himself, isn't fulfilling that wish he wanted.
That's nice but can you back up your point? I completely agree with what MayieChii is saying. Just take a look at him when he's around Nick. He generally treats him like trash. Have an opinion and back it up please.
I was talking about him being patronized by Luke in general. I didn't see anything wrong with the part in the hoard (My bad though, should of made it more clear). And still, I would of liked to see an opinion from FlamingOblivion if he/she is so confident they are right.
Luke is optimistic. Nick isn't. He was giving a valid point to Nick, if Clementine, an 11 year old girl, can walk through a herd of walkers,… more then Nick, an early to mid 20 year old, can do it too. It's not patronizing him, it's helping him.
Nick has lost a lot, but so has Luke. Nick says "I wish I was like Luke, that I can just move on" (not exact words, but something along the line of that), Well, him doubting himself, isn't fulfilling that wish he wanted.
Hey skoothz i sent you a pm but the notifications on this forum are bugged so the mods say u need a link to reach them. here ya go, hope this works! www.telltalegames.com/community/messages/1550
It was probably me who made the comment, tbh. To my knowledge I was the first person both here and on Tumblr to start writing extensively on… more Luke's patronizing behavior towards Nick, although I wrote a lot more about it on Tumblr. I made a thread about Nick possibly having depression but to my knowledge, I only commented in threads about Luke's treatment of Nick and predictably enough butted heads with some folks. I kind of anticipated a wave of downvotes if I bothered making an actual thread for it, and looking at the downvotes this thread's got, I guess I predicted correctly. But still, I'm glad to see these comments, I'm glad to see it's an interpretation that's been catching on.
I think, as with everything he does, Luke MEANS well but he doesn't understand and he's relying too heavily on what works for himself, and pushing that on to Nick is just toxic. Like you said, those of us with depression and low self-esteem know that all too … [view original content]
Hmm, yeah, I agree with your take on this!! Luke does make him feel like he has to show his worth, Clementine is constantly doing that, and he feels he has to too..
> "There isn't really a problem here, because the way Luke acts towards Nick is because he cares about him."
But that IS the problem ri… moreght there. Lots of people have this attitude but that doesn't help the person they want to change. Regardless of his good intentions, Luke's attitude to Nick isn't going to help him get over his problems, it is just going to make them worse. Luke refuses to let Nick come with them onto the bridge in concern for Nick's safety, but then it only makes Nick feel that he has to try even harder to prove himself, and the rest is history. From my own experience, a person like Nick will keep screwing up as long as everyone else treats him as if he will. He needs to deal with his issues on his own terms, in his own way.
Luke may have good intentions and he may be trying to help Nick but he won't, until he understands that they ARE different and Nick will never be able to as you say, "approach life like he does."
I was talking about him being patronized by Luke in general. I didn't see anything wrong with the part in the hoard (My bad though, should o… moref made it more clear). And still, I would of liked to see an opinion from FlamingOblivion if he/she is so confident they are right.
While Luke's comment was a bit abrasive, he did have a good point.
Nick, even though he's a good guy, he does need to butch up a bit.
And I think if he's shown kindness and confidence, I think he will.
I gotta say that Clementine is surprisingly tenacious and resourceful for an 11 year old girl.
I'd say next to Kenny, Clementine is one of the few most likely to survive to old age, in this apocalyptic world.
I agree.
I've seen what happens when ones are speak condisendingly and treat children as incompetent, never showing any kind of confidence in them.
They basically turn into Nick.
It's a damn shame that some parents do that.
This one kid, whom I've known since he was 5, his parents have treated him like that.
By my showing confidence and trust in him, I'm very happy to say he's overcoming those issues.
I can honestly testify, that the power of believing in people, especially children, is remarkable.
Children will either live up, or down, to your expectations.
This is why I want a dialogue option to tell Nick he's awesome, and that I believe in him. If others believe, he'll believe, and lack of confidence is all that's been holding him back from unlocking his full potential.
Respectfully, I believe it was Pete, not Luke, who asked Clementine to look after Nick.
And being Nick's uncle, his concern for Nick's future well-being as well as calling Nick a kid, due to Nick being his junior by 35-40 yrs, is all reasonable and appropriate.
There's nothing disrespectful in someone Pete's or Kenny's age calling Nick, or someone Nick's age a kid, in of itself.
Cause compared to them, someone Nick's age is just a kid.
And I guess whether or not Luke's words were patronizing or not, is all up to each individual's interpretation.
One thing that ones do have to remember, before judging, is that there is such a thing called tough-love.
I'll give you 2 good examples of that:
Say a child keeps wanting touch a hot stove. His parents have told him over and over again, but he will not listen. His parents decide that the next time he tries to touch it, they won't stop him. Sure enough the kid touches the stove and gets burned. While his parents are treating the burn, they tell the kid this is why they kept telling him not to touch it. So, even though kid did get burned, he learned what his parents were telling him was for his good.
Or, say a child speaks disrespectfully to his parents.
They have told him over and over not to speak to them the way he does, but he will not listen.
They tell him the next time he does it; he's in for a butt-whipping.
Sure enough he smarts off to them again, and gets his butt spanked a few times with his dad's belt.
By doing so, even though it did sting the kid's backside a bit, and wounded the kid's pride more than not, the dad showed the kid that he cannot speak to them anyway he wants.
And thus the kid begins to learn to show respect for others.
Those are examples of tough love.
Though it might seem cruel at first, it does produce good results in the end.
I've talked a lot about Luke having a very patronizing attitude towards Nick but haven't gone into detail much on this line, yet. So this sh… moreould be exciting.
Let's think back to the bridge. Luke makes Clementine go on the bridge with him and when Nick tries to come along, he refuses and argues with him and says, "I don't trust him to tie his own shoes." Five days before that, after Pete's death, Luke says to Clementine, "I'm worried about that kid. Keep on eye on him, will you?" (idk if that's the exact line, I'm paraphrasing). Luke puts more trust and more value in the capability of an 11-year-old girl than he does his best friend of twenty years, and he will infantalize him by calling him a "kid" to her. Interpreting this as patronizing is consistent in his behavior.
But I don't think Luke actually realizes his toxic his words are. I think he genuinely thinks he's being encouraging, or he's protecting Nick, but it's really not wor… [view original content]
There is a HUGE difference between literally dying and asking the only person with you, "Please make sure this person I love is okay," like with Pete, and being that person's able-bodied peer and choosing to ask that of an eleven-year-old girl.
Respectfully, I believe it was Pete, not Luke, who asked Clementine to look after Nick.
And being Nick's uncle, his concern for Nick's fut… moreure well-being as well as calling Nick a kid, due to Nick being his junior by 35-40 yrs, is all reasonable and appropriate.
There's nothing disrespectful in someone Pete's or Kenny's age calling Nick, or someone Nick's age a kid, in of itself.
Cause compared to them, someone Nick's age is just a kid.
And I guess whether or not Luke's words were patronizing or not, is all up to each individual's interpretation.
One thing that ones do have to remember, before judging, is that there is such a thing called tough-love.
I'll give you 2 good examples of that:
Say a child keeps wanting touch a hot stove. His parents have told him over and over again, but he will not listen. His parents decide that the next time he tries to touch it, they won't stop him. Sure enough the kid touches the stove … [view original content]
I do agree, even though Clementine was the only one with Pete, I still think it was inappropriate for Pete to saddle her with that responsibility.
He should asked that of Luke, and have Clementine relay the message.
Same goes for Luke.
In some respects, having Clementine being the playable character doesn't make a lot of sense, at least not to me.
Especially regarding some of the things that are being asked of her.
An adult character would not only be more appropriate, but also more fun at least to me anyway.
Pete and Luke both asked Clem to look over Nick.
There is a HUGE difference between literally dying and asking the only person with you… more, "Please make sure this person I love is okay," like with Pete, and being that person's able-bodied peer and choosing to ask that of an eleven-year-old girl.
Comments
Nick has lost a lot, but so has Luke. Nick says "I wish I was like Luke, that I can just move on" (not exact words, but something along the line of that), Well, him doubting himself, isn't fulfilling that wish he wanted.
Nick, even though he's a good guy, he does need to butch up a bit.
And I think if he's shown kindness and confidence, I think he will.
I gotta say that Clementine is surprisingly tenacious and resourceful for an 11 year old girl.
I'd say next to Kenny, Clementine is one of the few most likely to survive to old age, in this apocalyptic world.
I've seen what happens when ones are speak condisendingly and treat children as incompetent, never showing any kind of confidence in them.
They basically turn into Nick.
It's a damn shame that some parents do that.
This one kid, whom I've known since he was 5, his parents have treated him like that.
By my showing confidence and trust in him, I'm very happy to say he's overcoming those issues.
I can honestly testify, that the power of believing in people, especially children, is remarkable.
Children will either live up, or down, to your expectations.
And being Nick's uncle, his concern for Nick's future well-being as well as calling Nick a kid, due to Nick being his junior by 35-40 yrs, is all reasonable and appropriate.
There's nothing disrespectful in someone Pete's or Kenny's age calling Nick, or someone Nick's age a kid, in of itself.
Cause compared to them, someone Nick's age is just a kid.
And I guess whether or not Luke's words were patronizing or not, is all up to each individual's interpretation.
One thing that ones do have to remember, before judging, is that there is such a thing called tough-love.
I'll give you 2 good examples of that:
Say a child keeps wanting touch a hot stove. His parents have told him over and over again, but he will not listen. His parents decide that the next time he tries to touch it, they won't stop him. Sure enough the kid touches the stove and gets burned. While his parents are treating the burn, they tell the kid this is why they kept telling him not to touch it. So, even though kid did get burned, he learned what his parents were telling him was for his good.
Or, say a child speaks disrespectfully to his parents.
They have told him over and over not to speak to them the way he does, but he will not listen.
They tell him the next time he does it; he's in for a butt-whipping.
Sure enough he smarts off to them again, and gets his butt spanked a few times with his dad's belt.
By doing so, even though it did sting the kid's backside a bit, and wounded the kid's pride more than not, the dad showed the kid that he cannot speak to them anyway he wants.
And thus the kid begins to learn to show respect for others.
Those are examples of tough love.
Though it might seem cruel at first, it does produce good results in the end.
There is a HUGE difference between literally dying and asking the only person with you, "Please make sure this person I love is okay," like with Pete, and being that person's able-bodied peer and choosing to ask that of an eleven-year-old girl.
He should asked that of Luke, and have Clementine relay the message.
Same goes for Luke.
In some respects, having Clementine being the playable character doesn't make a lot of sense, at least not to me.
Especially regarding some of the things that are being asked of her.
An adult character would not only be more appropriate, but also more fun at least to me anyway.
It is probably for the best, my border collie would get jealous if i made another friend.