Her Claims of Innocence
EDIT: Ok, I feel a little bad for posting this now, not because I feel I said anything that wasn't valid, but because I feel like there's already far too much blame-throwing in these forums. I mean, people blame Sarah, Luke, Kenny....basically anyone they can, and I didn't mean to participate in that blame game. But maybe it's because no one ever seems to blame Bonnie for anything that I felt I had to say she's one of the only people who are actually to blame. But whatever. Peace, all. 
I feel a sudden need to address Bonnie's words to Clem while they're loading magazines (sp?). She only apologizes for lying, and at first, I thought that was weird since I'd consider it the least of her sins, but then it becomes clear she feels she was not responsible for Walter and Alvin dying and Carlos being tortured. But she WAS responsible. See, here:
1) If Clem says, "So you attacked them instead?", Bonnie claims she didn't attack anyone, "that was all Bill." Well, I guess I don't know about you, but I consider it an attack when someone holds other people at gunpoint and forces them to do something they don't want to do. Bonnie took her machine gun and forced everyone into the cabin and tied them all up and kept them from helping their friends and family while their friends and family we're being tortured or killed. And she did all this with the intention of taking away their freedom and forcing them to go back to Carver's camp and be slaves. Therefore, she most certainly did attack them.
2) Not only did she attack them but also she didn't do anything when Carver killed and tortured them. Again, I don't know about you, but I consider it murder when someone can save someone else but chooses not to. Bonnie had a machine gun, and Carver was distracted. She could have easily stopped him from torturing and killing. She had plenty of time to decide to do it too. If she was so against the violence unfolding, then she knew she wanted to stop it. All she had to do was decide to stop it. But she decided not to. I mean, if someone with a gun stood by and watched while someone else was committing heinous crimes, it would be obvious that that person held some blame. But Bonnie didn't just stand by and watch. She stood by and watched while at the same time she attacked the group, as I said in 1). Therefore, she holds a LOT of the blame.
I'm not saying she's the only one to blame. Obviously, Carver, Johnny, and Troy were all equally as evil as Bonnie at that time, if not more so. And by the end of ep 3, I do more or less forgive Bonnie, but I don't like the way the episode glossed over her sins in order to add her as a member of the group.
Comments
Lol, i like how you are getting dislikes for stating the truth. Good work
Bonnie is just as responsible as the the others who invaded the ski lodge. She lied and tried to say she was this poor innocent woman who needed supplies. Walter was kind enough to give her some when Kenny didn't trust her, and Clem (depending on choice) can also choose not trust her. Yet how does she repay Walter? By Carver putting a bullet in his head. There's no excuse for lying. And once a liar, always a liar.
She probably would of got shot had she tried to kill Carver. I don't forgive her. She caused the death of Walter and Alvin and that is not excusable, she's a liar and who knows if she'll lie to the group now that she's with them.
No actually it's Bonnie's fault for lying and bringing the group to the lodge. Bonnie isn't the one who killed Walt and Alvin. It was Kenny's fault Walt and Alvin died. Just like Carlos said in 203, '' Kenny's actions got them killed.'' If Kenny wouldn't had shot at Carver twice they would still be alive, but still determinate...
[removed]
Oooh hit a nerve did i ?
Or was it that cactus you have up your ass?
Both. licks lips
So i win?
Aw cheers Quack
Are you in your 30s or 40s?
I can be as old as you want to be boss.
You talk like your old. :P
I did just come out the womb so yeah i guess im pretty fucking old, you got me lol.
Cool story,bro.
Come here Duck, let tell you an old war story.
That's not fair, you blaming Kenny for the actions of a madman! Kenny just tryed to help the group and i'm thankfull for that. He didn't just surrender, like the others did.
What's most sickening to me is that Bonnie justifies the death of Walter, the same man who showed her kindness while she was lying her ass off, as "Carver protecting his own people." That's going to be hard to forgive and I really hope I get the chance to let her die in episode 4.
My Clem never spoke to Bonnie.. All she know's of Bonnie was that she was scouting the lodge, lied about having a family and took the food. Then a little time later returned with Carver with assault rifels and kidnapped the group. My Clem never trusted Bonnie and the only words I spoke to Carver was "I wish Kenny had killed you"
I think many people played as they knew Bonnie from 400days and that she wasnt a 'bad' person so they trusted her so much.
It was and still is my intention to let her die or just kill her if/when possible.. Tavia too! Anyone who was with Carver should die,, IMO
But he DID surrender, after getting one or two people killed.
What did he actually achieve by refusing to give himself up? He killed one guy who was no harm anyway, and was just assisting in taking them back.
He caused more pain than joy in his actions there, and ignores clem's advice if she tells him not to shoot the first time.
In fact, he only doesn't shoot the second time if clem gives him that advice; otherwise, even after having seen that carver was willing to kill, and killed his friend, he shoots again.
Is there not the saying' Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.'? He should have learned from his mistake, and he needed a child to make him think logically.
Also, Carver isn't actually bad. He'as an asshole, but he isn't crazy.
Slightly off-topic: I'm curious; you on this forum defend Kenny all the time and bring him into every discussion, even sometimes when he's not relevant. Do you think of him as faultless, or as a person with some positive attributes, and some negative? Because I've never seen you say anything that wasn't on the edge of awe and reverence.
Why was Mrwalto69 banned but WhatTheDuck wasn't?
That's because someone he deeply cares about (Clem or Sarita) were in danger, wouldn't you do the same for a loved one? It also took massive balls to walk into a building with a crazy man that you just fought that could kill you anytime he wanted.
If Luke didn't run off to take a hike and they attacked from two different spots they likely could've taken back the lodge, it was only 3 guards and Carver. (They also had the element of surprise before Kenny shot Johnny)
That's because he's Kenny. He has a very set-in-stone character, where he rarely, if ever gives up. He thought he could take back the lodge, which he likely could have if Luke stuck around and had another vantage point with a rifle.
It was a tough but clear shot, and if Kenny actually did blast Carver's head open, Bonnie and Troy likely wouldn't have done anything. All it took for Troy to leave the compound was a little convincing by Jane, and Bonnie has too weak of a conscience to actually try anything. Carver ruled by fear, and that doesn't get you far.
As I've said before, if Kenny showed his face Carver likely would've shot him the second he walked in the lodge. I'm honestly surprised he didn't, because as seen with Alvin it only takes one thing in order to get on his bad side. (George, which was assumed accidental while escaping)
...He threw a guy off a roof because a berry plant didn't get cut. Definition of insanity.
I could kind of say the same about you. Every post involving Kenny that you make is almost always anti-Kenny, so you're no better than him.
Kenny is a flawed man. He made alot of mistakes, like almost everyone else in this game did. I never ever discussed about Kenny, in a thread were he wasn't relevant. You should be aware of that fact, if you would have payed some attention to my Posts.
That point was not against his character, that was just to disprove his idea that Kenny is great because he didn't surrender. Of course I would have done the same. I wouldn't have shoot at him in the first place, however.
Right so if Luke didn't leave for unknown reasons they could have taken the lodge. Fair point. But Kenny knew Luke was gone, and still attempted it anyway.
Saying 'that's just Kenny' does not stop his actions from being bad.
Yes, IF he could manage it. But by then he easily could have realised that if he failed, the results would be horrible and someone else would die. When you play, do you stop him from shooting? If so, doesn't that kind of contradict what you're saying, because then you clearly as Clementine would think the shot wasn't worth it.
Yes he likely would have. But regardless of his actions beforehand, he always surrenders, so clearly he wasn't that afraid of it.
That isn't the definition of insanity: he saw what he thought was a weak person and got rid of them. He carried it out in a calculated, planned way. Yes he's a complete dick, but that's not what craziness is.
Well, that's just not true. I speak out againts parts of Kenny's character, yes, - specifically parts that get other people killed needlessly - and I get incredibly annoyed when people say he's faultless.
However, I like Kenny. A lot. I even made a thread about that fact.
He has made a lot of mistakes. I disagree that almost everyone else in the game has made as many as he has, or rather I say that his had much worse consequences than the actions of most.
For example, I can't think of many terrible mistakes that Omid made, or Carly or Katjaa or Molly or Brie, or determinantly Lee.....
In fact, the only ones I can think of who did make the same kind of far-reaching, life-or-death mistakes are Nick and Ben. Both had good intentions always, but led to the deaths of innocents, just like Kenny led to Walter's death, and less directly Sarita's bite and Larry's death.
I do pay attention to your posts actually: recently you brought up Kenny in a thread where it specifically asked about Clem's cutest face, and you put up a picture of Kenny that didn't have Clem in it. I replied to it to point out its irrelevance, if I recall correctly, but you didn't respond. You were also a major spammer of the 'Kenny confirmed for season 2 gif', again if I recall correctly, and that was constantly on irrelevant threads.
The reason Mrwaltor69 was banned as he kept on insulting most people on his thread
His thread title is"sarah is the new ben"
I might get hate for this but I thought he was a funny guy.
Rated m for mature
Omid had the all-in-one of leaving a 9 year-old girl to investigate a derelict bathroom alone so that he could have sex with his girlfriend. To rub salt in the wound, this being directly after chatting away happily to Christa while Clem hangs behind, clearly not enthralled with the competence of her new carers. But now I'm getting very off-topic.
That led to his own death. I mean ,that's still bad, but not in the league of causing other people to die.
My other points still stand completely.
I agree, I was thinking about it all the way. I feel really bad for Walter, he gave Bonnie food and was so kind to her, she just took the food and left to Carver, and brought him and the other armed people from his group along. Walter got killed as a result. Why didn't she tell something or stayed with Clem's group?! After Walter's kindness, Bonnie's actions just seemed cold hearted to me.
Oh, and Alvin died too. One more person to feel sorry about.
Bonnie did say she assumed that they would just be going to just get the people back to the camp with no one getting hurt or anything. Yes it is partially her fault, but do you know whos fault it is mostly?
Kenny and Carver. Carver is the one who killed Walter and can kill Alvin despite only getting shot in the shoulder and "not losing anyone" and he also beats up Carlos whilst optionally holding either Sarita or Clementine at gunpoint.
Kenny however is the one who started this fiasco, he made a bad situation worse by shooting Johnny, and if he shoots Carver in your game then he caused Alvins death as well.
Like Carlos said "Regardless of intent, there are consequences to rash actions. Something that he is misreading as capitulation" - I like Kenny but his idiotic rash actions caused the deaths of Walter and can cause the death of Alvin.
Weird, in my game Bonnie felt remorse over what happened...... like big time. And admitted she had made a mistake.
Guess it all comes down to how you approach the conversation.
Well, people defended Nick for killing Matthew, a man who showed Clem and Luke kindness, by saying that he was just "protecting his friends." It may be obvious to most of us that Nick had good intentions and Carver didn't, but that's because we saw Nick as our friend and Carver as our enemy. Bonnie had a very different perspective.
At that point, her view of Carver was still as a fundamentally decent man struggling to keep a huge community safe and together. He took her in and saved her life and was probably fairly kind towards her. She also implied that he used to be a lot more reasonable in his leadership. So when he does something wrong, her first reaction is to rationalize it as best she can.
You bring up some good points. While it's pretty clear that Bonnie regrets what she did, she can still technically be held responsible for participating.
To be honest, everyone is to blame since it was a giant clusterfuck.
Personally, I lay most of it on Carver and Luke.... Carver for being a control freak dictator who clearly has gone off the rails and Luke for being 200 pounds of gutless whitemeat who's best play seemed to be... Run.
I think Bonnie's great!
Who cares what she did then. At least she chose to join us instead of Tavia and the rest of the 400 day character's.
ya right, it can be a little different for each person, but the very next morning, working with Bonnie, was no way in hell I was going to trust her about talking to Luke and the radios.. She could have simply told Carver.
And she may feel bad about her part, but she should and rather than accepting her apology and ignore what she's participated in, My Clem wont trust her that easily.. Bonnie did earn some brownie points for helping the group escape at the end, but still doesnt erase what she caused.
We never got too much of a backround story on how they ended up with Carver.. My guess is that Tavia tricked them all to joining, perhaps the 400 days group was placed in the Pen and had to earn thier way out and become part of Carvers group. they accepted it then became part of it.. Fine they may have started as prisoners too. But all Clem knows is they showed up with weapons and Walter (Alvin) was killed and they were taken prisoner. I was amazed at the stat's to see how many told Bonnie about Luke.
Bonnie is a great character.. She had a awsome story in 400days and I even feel she has a good heart. All i'm saying is Clem only knows Bonnie from what she's seen and thats why to my Clem, she's not to be trusted and had I been given the chance, MY Clem would have put a bullet in her head along with ANYONE from Carvers group!
Bonnie did seem to have some respect for Walter as she implies she never met anyone so kind possibly in her life (or ever since Leland) - I think now that she hates Carver and left with the group that she just dislikes the idea of Carver dying and realises what a mistake she has made.
Your clem is apparently psychotic then.
Bonnie talked to my Clem like an adult, explained her part in how things played out and her choices, etc. That's why I chose to give her a pass.
Hell, near as I can tell she's been far more honest with me than anyone else from "Carver's group"... except maybe Sarah. (edit: Or maybe Alvin)
Okay, you chose to give her a pass after what she did. I would not. Bonnie was very kind and even a bit protective of Clem.. Sure.. She was trying to make friends or lure Clem into a false sence of security thinking Clem would give her info to pass onto Carver. How would Clem know? I played mine more untrusting of someone who just kidnapped us.. You are more than welcome to become friends with your captors.
I personally don't like Bonnie or trust her very much as a character, but I do think you're being a bit harsh on her. I actually do think she felt bad about getting Walter killed, which is why I think she was trying so hard to get Clem to like her, and it was Carver's fault in the end since he pulled the trigger, but everything else I totally blamed on her. I did like her a bit more after episode 3, but not a lot... I still think it was her fault the group got captured in the first place, and as a result everything that happened in episode 3. It also really bothered me how she explains that she was supposedly friends with the cabin group before they left the camp, and yet because she felt it would be better for them to return to the camp, she lets them get captured without even thinking about what they themselves wanted. Not very nice imo. It was great that she helped them escape in the end, but it still her fault they even had to escape from there in the first place. Maybe I'll like her more if they approach her character right in the next episode. I do agree with you though that Bonnie is to blame for a lot of things, but many characters are also to blame, so it's not really fair to blame just one character for everything, so these blame games on the forum lately are really starting to get tiring.
It's a harsh world now and is all about survival. Bonnie played her role and has to live with it just like anyone else. Show up at my door with a weapon and force me to a camp to work as forced labor.. I don't care what your reason is, you did it.. That makes us enimies! Handing me a jacket and saying sorry doesnt make up for anything.
Well excuse me for making a stupid joke on the " Clem's cutest face " thread, but as i already said it was just a stupid joke, nothing more. Yes i did Post the " Kenny confirmed for Season2 " gif alot of times, just like many others did. Simply because of the fact, that people couldn't accept the truth, that Kenny was confirmed for Season2.
So if you say Lee made mistakes determinatily, you don't think killing the Senator that had sex with his wife wasn't a terrible mistake? Even if your Lee was a fucking saint during the apocolypse, you can't just ignore his past.
But anyway, let's stop this pointless discussion now, shall we?