I'm resisting a titanic urge to do a hideously un-PC impression because of that last sentence you wrote.
Not every black person looks the same, no duh, but they all share some commonalities. And if a black person and a non-black person love each other very much, their children will look like a combo of the two. Clem doesn't look like two black people had sex, but that two people, one of who was black, one of whom was Asian had sex.
Jesus Christ, are you seriously going to take the word of somebody over the evidence presented to you by the gobs God gave ya?
So I'm a fanboy for acknowledging that Telltale, as the creators of her character, have more say about her ethnicity than you, a random shmoe from the interwebs, do? That is a very special kind of logic you have going on.
Again, they can claim it ten times over, they can be the creators a hundred times more, but you cannot bullshit me and expect me to swallow.… more I didn't even grow up surrounded by black or Asian people, yet I know the differences between the two. Telltale dun goofed, accept it, y' buttblasted fanboy.
There's a very, very huge difference in diversity between the first and second games. When you compare them it comes off like it's an active… more effort. In the first game, Telltale made an effort to portray different races in non-stereotypical ways, they gave women guns and complexity, and they portrayed a handful of different ages and body types. Now in season 2 we've got twice as many nonwhite characters, twice as many women, we've got gay characters, we've got characters with disabilities--this isn't just a coincidence. Yes it is done for the sake of "realism", of course it is and it's a good job at that, but so many other video games fall into the trap of underrepresentation, sexualization, and stereotypes, and Telltale DOESN'T, despite the fact that the majority of people working on the game are white men. To me this looks like an active effort to diversify and that's a GOOD THING.
I really don't understand what's the problem here is, and… [view original content]
Yes, a very special kind of logic where the word of man holds no sway over fact. Clem does not look like she's the result of two people with African ancestry engaging in the act known as sex for the purpouse of procreation. If they intended for her to be purely of African origin, then why in the name of the nine circles of Hell and beyond, did they not make her look the part?
So I'm a fanboy for acknowledging that Telltale, as the creators of her character, have more say about her ethnicity than you, a random shmoe from the interwebs, do? That is a very special kind of logic you have going on.
Also... not to open up a can of worms but Nick actually has pretty dark skin and it's something I don't think a lot of people really notice.
Check this out:
The color swatches are all from the lightest points on their faces. As you can see Nick is still pretty dark.
This could mean that maybe he's mixed race, or if he is European-American, he's at the very LEAST has some kind of Italian/Sicilian/Greek/Balkan ancestry because they're the darkest that Europeans can get. Uncle Pete is way whiter so whatever it is, it's from his dad's side.
Did you also notice there's not a lot of white people either?
Clem - African/Asian
Sarita - Indian
Mike - African
Rebecca - Afri… morecan (possible non-African heritage mixed in as well)
Sarah - Hispanic
Kenny - European
Nick - European
Jane - European
Didn't notice this until episode 3 when I was just thinking about the cast as a whole.
Also... not to open up a can of worms but Nick actually has pretty dark skin and it's something I don't think a lot of people really notice.… more
Check this out:
The color swatches are all from the lightest points on their faces. As you can see Nick is still pretty dark.
This could mean that maybe he's mixed race, or if he is European-American, he's at the very LEAST has some kind of Italian/Sicilian/Greek/Balkan ancestry because they're the darkest that Europeans can get. Uncle Pete is way whiter so whatever it is, it's from his dad's side.
They're her creators, man. What they say about Clem is true because it's how they intend it. It's called Word of God and it is law when dealing with these kinds of things. Clem is their character, so if they say she's African American, then she's African American in the canon.
Yes, a very special kind of logic where the word of man holds no sway over fact. Clem does not look like she's the result of two people with… more African ancestry engaging in the act known as sex for the purpouse of procreation. If they intended for her to be purely of African origin, then why in the name of the nine circles of Hell and beyond, did they not make her look the part?
I'm resisting a titanic urge to do a hideously un-PC impression because of that last sentence you wrote.
That alone makes me not take your opinion seriously.
Jesus Christ, are you seriously going to take the word of somebody over the evidence presented to you by the gobs God gave ya?
No, I'm taking the word of the actual CREATORS over the word of "somebody", that "somebody" being you. You're the somebody in the situation, man, not the people who actually MADE the character.
I'm resisting a titanic urge to do a hideously un-PC impression because of that last sentence you wrote.
Not every black person looks the… more same, no duh, but they all share some commonalities. And if a black person and a non-black person love each other very much, their children will look like a combo of the two. Clem doesn't look like two black people had sex, but that two people, one of who was black, one of whom was Asian had sex.
Jesus Christ, are you seriously going to take the word of somebody over the evidence presented to you by the gobs God gave ya?
Lawd have moycee someone make an un-PC joke. That just invalidates their arguments automatically, no matter what they say.
Again, they could have made her twenty times over, but until she actually look pure African, she ain't so. I trust facts before I trust claims. Someone at Telltale dun goofed when they were designing Clem. If Michelangelo said that, in fact, David's penis would be 10 inches long if he were the same height as a normal human, would that magic his penis into not being effing tiny? If Leonardo stated, for God knows which reason, that Mona Lisa did in fact have eyebrows, would that change the fact she does not have eyebrows? If some bollock-bastard abstract painted claimed his works have actual meaning and depth to them, would y-- OK, people actually fell for that bullshit.
I'm resisting a titanic urge to do a hideously un-PC impression because of that last sentence you wrote.
That alone makes me not tak… moree your opinion seriously.
Jesus Christ, are you seriously going to take the word of somebody over the evidence presented to you by the gobs God gave ya?
No, I'm taking the word of the actual CREATORS over the word of "somebody", that "somebody" being you. You're the somebody in the situation, man, not the people who actually MADE the character.
Well, like I said, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's nonwhite. I'm just pointing out that he's got a very ambiguous appearance and could quite validly be interpreted as nonwhite.
I mean, the wiki says Nick's white, but the wiki ALSO says that this guy is white:
So a lot of stuff on there should probably be taken with a grain of salt.
Well, like I said, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's nonwhite. I'm just pointing out that he's got a very ambiguous appearance and could… more quite validly be interpreted as nonwhite.
I mean, the wiki says Nick's white, but the wiki ALSO says that this guy is white:
So a lot of stuff on there should probably be taken with a grain of salt.
Lawd have moycee someone make an un-PC joke. That just invalidates their arguments automatically, no matter what they say.
Again, they co… moreuld have made her twenty times over, but until she actually look pure African, she ain't so. I trust facts before I trust claims. Someone at Telltale dun goofed when they were designing Clem. If Michelangelo said that, in fact, David's penis would be 10 inches long if he were the same height as a normal human, would that magic his penis into not being effing tiny? If Leonardo stated, for God knows which reason, that Mona Lisa did in fact have eyebrows, would that change the fact she does not have eyebrows? If some bollock-bastard abstract painted claimed his works have actual meaning and depth to them, would y-- OK, people actually fell for that bullshit.
Mother of Hell and all things related to blackjack and hookers, Word of God is only good for ambiguity, not actual, easily verifiable facts. When your claim directly contradicts that which is shown, and that which is shown never gets rectified then the claim is the falsehood.
They're her creators, man. What they say about Clem is true because it's how they intend it. It's called Word of God and it is law when deal… moreing with these kinds of things. Clem is their character, so if they say she's African American, then she's African American in the canon.
Because...not all black people have stereotypical black features? I mean just look at this picture of Colin Powell and tell me that he looks like the result of two Jamaican immigrants.
Yes, a very special kind of logic where the word of man holds no sway over fact. Clem does not look like she's the result of two people with… more African ancestry engaging in the act known as sex for the purpouse of procreation. If they intended for her to be purely of African origin, then why in the name of the nine circles of Hell and beyond, did they not make her look the part?
I'm guessing you're American because no European would think Nick is Italian/Sicilian/Greek/Balkan ancestery. Hes skin color is the common one for northern europe/eastern-northern and he is has no traits of an Italian person. He looks very white white to me.
Also... not to open up a can of worms but Nick actually has pretty dark skin and it's something I don't think a lot of people really notice.… more
Check this out:
The color swatches are all from the lightest points on their faces. As you can see Nick is still pretty dark.
This could mean that maybe he's mixed race, or if he is European-American, he's at the very LEAST has some kind of Italian/Sicilian/Greek/Balkan ancestry because they're the darkest that Europeans can get. Uncle Pete is way whiter so whatever it is, it's from his dad's side.
Thinking Telltale is consciously being more diverse this time is wishful thinking. Like WhatTheDuck said, you're looking too much into somet… morehing that just happens to be coincidental. With wishful thinking i can also make Telltale look like a bunch of sexist pigs even if they really aren't.
Flog61 is taking it seriously because it's a serious issue. I'm going to go ahead and assume you're a guy. You're automatically represented all the time in video games so you don't really get what it's like to constantly view yourself as the minority--or when you are in the game, you're oversexualized or you're the damsel in distress.
The fact that Telltale has complex, racially diverse, nonsexualized women and they're the MAJORITY means so much to female fans. This is really, really important
I never thought anita sarkeesian's brainwashing would get into this game. Telltale will always be as realistic as possible in their game universe… [view original content]
Mother of Hell and all things related to blackjack and hookers, Word of God is only good for ambiguity, not actual, easily verifiable facts.… more When your claim directly contradicts that which is shown, and that which is shown never gets rectified then the claim is the falsehood.
I can tell you that he has some negroid features (and before anyone gets on my ass, ''negroid'' is a scientific term. Google it), albeit not very prominent.
Because...not all black people have stereotypical black features? I mean just look at this picture of Colin Powell and tell me that he looks like the result of two Jamaican immigrants.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Powell.JPEG
I can tell you that he has some negroid features (and before anyone gets on my ass, ''negroid'' is a scientific term. Google it), albeit not very prominent.
I ain't using ''European'' to mean they're from Europe and now living in America, but rather that they have European ancestry, but it's unkn… moreown from where. Similar to how I use ''African'' and ''Asian''. The only reason why I said Sarita was Indian is because we know she's Indian, there's no denying those features and that accent. Mike is labeled African primarily due to my ignorance of the differences in facial characteristics of various African nationalities. Put 'em side by side, I could see them, but I couldn't name where they're from, exactly.
And as I said, it really doesn't matter what she looks like if her creators say that she's African American! Hell, I don't even completely disagree with you. I've seen pictures in which Clem looked Asian to me, but her creators say that she's African-American, which makes her canonically African-American. I honestly couldn't care any less about her race than I already do, but it's what her creators said she was.
OK, I'm going to do this as blatantly as I can since I can tell you're minimally exceptional.
1) Clem's eyes. They're a tad slanted, comm… moreon in Asians.
2) Clem's skin colour. It ain't black or brown, but it don't fit with, say, a Japanese person's skin colour either.
3) Her lips ain't real prominent, common amongst most people who have predominantly African heritage.
I swear upon a thousand Bibles, I can't make it simpler than that.
I'm guessing you're American because no European would think Nick is Italian/Sicilian/Greek/Balkan ancestery. Hes skin color is the common o… morene for northern europe/eastern-northern and he is has no traits of an Italian person. He looks very white white to me.
I disagree. Thought I'm a fan of diversity as much as the next guy, I hate it when writers go out of there way to fill up a "minority quota" because it's noticable and weird. Also I don't know what you mean "Twice as many men than woman." The group in episode 2 had four women and six men. Cut to episode 3 and there's four men and four women there's an equal ration right there.
Besides that, the Walking Dead Cast is the most diverse cast of anything I have seen in a while. Lee is black but nobody makes a big deal out of the fact, he just so happens to be black. Kenny is a redneck but has a overweight, Belgium wife rather than a stereotypical Southern wife. Out of the eight playable characters in the game, only one is a white male; the rest are either women, black, asian, or a combination like Tavia. Christa and Omid are Middle-Eastern but again the game doesn't make this into a big deal.
It's not a sense of them being less biased towards male characters, it has to do with the setting. I kinda expect more men to survive due to their physical advantages. After a while the only women left would be the ones who either adapted to the situation, had survival training, were athletic and kept their bodies in shape, or were cunning enough to outsmart the zombies and bandits.
But in a sense that's even better:
I bet in season 1 they didn't make there be twice as many men as women on purpose, they just did it in… morestinctively, which is bad. The fact that they have now done the opposite means that their minds might be becoming less biased towards male characters.
I'm guessing you're American because no European would think Nick is Italian/Sicilian/Greek/Balkan ancestery. Hes skin color is the common o… morene for northern europe/eastern-northern and he is has no traits of an Italian person. He looks very white white to me.
The only reason why I said Sarita was Indian is because we know she's Indian, there's no denying those features and that accent.
Nop… moree, she says she's Indian in-game. I think the conversation went something like this
Troy: Shut up, Indian lady!
Kenny: What'd you say?!
Sarita: It's okay, I am Indian.
This isn't exactly how it went but its basically what they said.
I care because their statements contradict reality. It's easy to classify Lee, Rebecca, Alvin, Mike, Christa, Bud and Lee's parents as African-American, 'cause they look the part (Becca having real light skin, but w/e). Clem don't. Not completely.
And as I said, it really doesn't matter what she looks like if her creators say that she's African American! Hell, I don't even completely d… moreisagree with you. I've seen pictures in which Clem looked Asian to me, but her creators say that she's African-American, which makes her canonically African-American. I honestly couldn't care any less about her race than I already do, but it's what her creators said she was.
The point is that he doesn't look the way that you would expect him to look based on his parentage. But guess what? That doesn't mean a damn thing. The fact remains that both of his parent are black. And thus, he is black. Same with Clem. Both of her parents are black. She's black.
I actually don't watch Anita Sarkeesian and honestly I don't really know much about her. My discussion here more kind of stems from, y'know, my personal experiences...
Then I suppose that you and I will simply have to agree to disagree over the amount of authority that a creator has over their characters. I don't see either of us making headway with the other any time soon. That cool with you?
I care because their statements contradict reality. It's easy to classify Lee, Rebecca, Alvin, Mike, Christa, Bud and Lee's parents as African-American, 'cause they look the part (Becca having real light skin, but w/e). Clem don't. Not completely.
There are a lot of women out there who could undoubtedly kick your ass and outlive you in a disaster. It's having an attitude like that that already makes you weak to begin with.
I'm sure some will say 'oh well women are more likely to die because they are physically less able', but the walking dead disagrees with you because there are more male walkers than female ones: clearly more men are dying than women, making the situations even less unlikely to always be the case.
Well...I could make the argument that if women are more likely to die than men because they are less physically able, then female walkers might also be more likely to die than male walkers because they are less physically able. In fact, since all intelligence is extinguished and mobility is nullified in walkers, size and physical strength would be the only thing determining a walker's survivability. As a result, male walkers would be more likely to outnumber female walkers, not because males are more likely to die, but because males are less likely to die a second time.
To me this looks like an active effort to diversify
Yeah, it looks like that to you and possibly everyone else who thinks Telltale is trying to appease them.
Why does it BOTHER you?
The thread or the argument doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the blatant social justice warrioring that came out of nowhere because Telltale made someone's beliefs happy
despite the fact that the majority of people working on the game are white men.
Another assumption that is just wrong. Telltale has tons of women just like they have tons of asians too and people of all other races and backgrounds. Ever bothered looking at those pics of the whole team they post every once in a while?
Also it's kinda weird that you'd quote me separately and not just reply to my post. No need to act coy, here.
I dislike the structure of these forums and how i have to go from page to page in order to discuss something.
There's a very, very huge difference in diversity between the first and second games. When you compare them it comes off like it's an active… more effort. In the first game, Telltale made an effort to portray different races in non-stereotypical ways, they gave women guns and complexity, and they portrayed a handful of different ages and body types. Now in season 2 we've got twice as many nonwhite characters, twice as many women, we've got gay characters, we've got characters with disabilities--this isn't just a coincidence. Yes it is done for the sake of "realism", of course it is and it's a good job at that, but so many other video games fall into the trap of underrepresentation, sexualization, and stereotypes, and Telltale DOESN'T, despite the fact that the majority of people working on the game are white men. To me this looks like an active effort to diversify and that's a GOOD THING.
I really don't understand what's the problem here is, and… [view original content]
Comments
I'm resisting a titanic urge to do a hideously un-PC impression because of that last sentence you wrote.
Not every black person looks the same, no duh, but they all share some commonalities. And if a black person and a non-black person love each other very much, their children will look like a combo of the two. Clem doesn't look like two black people had sex, but that two people, one of who was black, one of whom was Asian had sex.
Jesus Christ, are you seriously going to take the word of somebody over the evidence presented to you by the gobs God gave ya?
So I'm a fanboy for acknowledging that Telltale, as the creators of her character, have more say about her ethnicity than you, a random shmoe from the interwebs, do? That is a very special kind of logic you have going on.
Uncle Pete-
Uh...
I mean skoothz has a point.
Yes, a very special kind of logic where the word of man holds no sway over fact. Clem does not look like she's the result of two people with African ancestry engaging in the act known as sex for the purpouse of procreation. If they intended for her to be purely of African origin, then why in the name of the nine circles of Hell and beyond, did they not make her look the part?
Also... not to open up a can of worms but Nick actually has pretty dark skin and it's something I don't think a lot of people really notice.
Check this out:
The color swatches are all from the lightest points on their faces. As you can see Nick is still pretty dark.
This could mean that maybe he's mixed race, or if he is European-American, he's at the very LEAST has some kind of Italian/Sicilian/Greek/Balkan ancestry because they're the darkest that Europeans can get. Uncle Pete is way whiter so whatever it is, it's from his dad's side.
Hm, that is a good point, I never noticed how darker he was. Either case, race is more than just skin colour.
They're her creators, man. What they say about Clem is true because it's how they intend it. It's called Word of God and it is law when dealing with these kinds of things. Clem is their character, so if they say she's African American, then she's African American in the canon.
That alone makes me not take your opinion seriously.
No, I'm taking the word of the actual CREATORS over the word of "somebody", that "somebody" being you. You're the somebody in the situation, man, not the people who actually MADE the character.
Lawd have moycee someone make an un-PC joke. That just invalidates their arguments automatically, no matter what they say.
Again, they could have made her twenty times over, but until she actually look pure African, she ain't so. I trust facts before I trust claims. Someone at Telltale dun goofed when they were designing Clem. If Michelangelo said that, in fact, David's penis would be 10 inches long if he were the same height as a normal human, would that magic his penis into not being effing tiny? If Leonardo stated, for God knows which reason, that Mona Lisa did in fact have eyebrows, would that change the fact she does not have eyebrows? If some bollock-bastard abstract painted claimed his works have actual meaning and depth to them, would y-- OK, people actually fell for that bullshit.
Well, like I said, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's nonwhite. I'm just pointing out that he's got a very ambiguous appearance and could quite validly be interpreted as nonwhite.
I mean, the wiki says Nick's white, but the wiki ALSO says that this guy is white:
So a lot of stuff on there should probably be taken with a grain of salt.
I've also seen prison photos of dudes, clearly so not white, being labeled as white. Shit's fucked up.
Wyatt: Don't talk about David's dick.
What about Spotted Dick?
So that's what Spotted Dick is? Huh. For some reason whenever I saw it mentioned in the Harry Potter books I always imagined it as more of a custard
Mother of Hell and all things related to blackjack and hookers, Word of God is only good for ambiguity, not actual, easily verifiable facts. When your claim directly contradicts that which is shown, and that which is shown never gets rectified then the claim is the falsehood.
Fun fact, it's usually served with custard.
Because...not all black people have stereotypical black features? I mean just look at this picture of Colin Powell and tell me that he looks like the result of two Jamaican immigrants.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Powell.JPEG
Yeah, it's pretty unrealistic since most women are terrible at fighting, survival, etc. Well, it is a game so it's okay I guess.
I'm guessing you're American because no European would think Nick is Italian/Sicilian/Greek/Balkan ancestery. Hes skin color is the common one for northern europe/eastern-northern and he is has no traits of an Italian person. He looks very white white to me.
I also thought he/she might be brainwashed by that scammer, Anita Sarkeesian.
Actual? Easy? Verifiable? I take it that you never saw the dozen or so threads created out of the confusion over Clem's ethnicity.
I can tell you that he has some negroid features (and before anyone gets on my ass, ''negroid'' is a scientific term. Google it), albeit not very prominent.
He also has some mongoloid features. But no mongoloid ancestry. Just like Clem.
OK, I'm going to do this as blatantly as I can since I can tell you're minimally exceptional.
1) Clem's eyes. They're a tad slanted, common in Asians.
2) Clem's skin colour. It ain't black or brown, but it don't fit with, say, a Japanese person's skin colour either.
3) Her lips ain't real prominent, common amongst most people who have predominantly African heritage.
I swear upon a thousand Bibles, I can't make it simpler than that.
Eeeeeh. Not exactly. Clem's most prominent mongoloid feature is her eyes. Best you could say with Powell is his nose, maybe?
Nope, she says she's Indian in-game. I think the conversation went something like this
Troy: Shut up, Indian lady!
Kenny: What'd you say?!
Sarita: It's okay, I am Indian.
This isn't exactly how it went but its basically what they said.
And as I said, it really doesn't matter what she looks like if her creators say that she's African American! Hell, I don't even completely disagree with you. I've seen pictures in which Clem looked Asian to me, but her creators say that she's African-American, which makes her canonically African-American. I honestly couldn't care any less about her race than I already do, but it's what her creators said she was.
...I'm Italian-American. Sicilian, specifically.
It's because women are stronger than most men. It's a fact.
I disagree. Thought I'm a fan of diversity as much as the next guy, I hate it when writers go out of there way to fill up a "minority quota" because it's noticable and weird. Also I don't know what you mean "Twice as many men than woman." The group in episode 2 had four women and six men. Cut to episode 3 and there's four men and four women there's an equal ration right there.
Besides that, the Walking Dead Cast is the most diverse cast of anything I have seen in a while. Lee is black but nobody makes a big deal out of the fact, he just so happens to be black. Kenny is a redneck but has a overweight, Belgium wife rather than a stereotypical Southern wife. Out of the eight playable characters in the game, only one is a white male; the rest are either women, black, asian, or a combination like Tavia. Christa and Omid are Middle-Eastern but again the game doesn't make this into a big deal.
It's not a sense of them being less biased towards male characters, it has to do with the setting. I kinda expect more men to survive due to their physical advantages. After a while the only women left would be the ones who either adapted to the situation, had survival training, were athletic and kept their bodies in shape, or were cunning enough to outsmart the zombies and bandits.
''He looks very white white to me''
Reminds me of this guy's stand up routine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI38GtWFihY
By that reasoning I am white, white, white, European village of Strecktenslaub white.
Suuuuuuuure....
What ever you say...
Huh, didn't remember that scene. Anyway, more proof.
I care because their statements contradict reality. It's easy to classify Lee, Rebecca, Alvin, Mike, Christa, Bud and Lee's parents as African-American, 'cause they look the part (Becca having real light skin, but w/e). Clem don't. Not completely.
The point is that he doesn't look the way that you would expect him to look based on his parentage. But guess what? That doesn't mean a damn thing. The fact remains that both of his parent are black. And thus, he is black. Same with Clem. Both of her parents are black. She's black.
I actually don't watch Anita Sarkeesian and honestly I don't really know much about her. My discussion here more kind of stems from, y'know, my personal experiences...
Then I suppose that you and I will simply have to agree to disagree over the amount of authority that a creator has over their characters. I don't see either of us making headway with the other any time soon. That cool with you?
There are a lot of women out there who could undoubtedly kick your ass and outlive you in a disaster. It's having an attitude like that that already makes you weak to begin with.
Well...I could make the argument that if women are more likely to die than men because they are less physically able, then female walkers might also be more likely to die than male walkers because they are less physically able. In fact, since all intelligence is extinguished and mobility is nullified in walkers, size and physical strength would be the only thing determining a walker's survivability. As a result, male walkers would be more likely to outnumber female walkers, not because males are more likely to die, but because males are less likely to die a second time.
Yeah, it looks like that to you and possibly everyone else who thinks Telltale is trying to appease them.
The thread or the argument doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the blatant social justice warrioring that came out of nowhere because Telltale made someone's beliefs happy
Another assumption that is just wrong. Telltale has tons of women just like they have tons of asians too and people of all other races and backgrounds. Ever bothered looking at those pics of the whole team they post every once in a while?
I dislike the structure of these forums and how i have to go from page to page in order to discuss something.