The problem with "Ben 2.0"
Okay, so I'm getting pretty tired of seeing threads like "Sarah is the new Ben" and "Nick is the new Ben", and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Besides being just plain inaccurate, as many folks have pointed out time and time again, it's just a full-on blatant disrespect towards Telltale's abilities. Do you really not trust their writing team to develop personalities that aren't carbon copies of former characters? Sarah and Nick are both their own unique and complex people (arguably the two most developed characters to come out of Season 2 so far), and Ben isn't some kind of archetypal role that needs to be fulfilled in every plot in the series. He was his own character, too, and he fulfilled his role in Season 1. That role no longer exists because it was only for him and only for that plot.
And on a side note, it doesn't sit well with me that the comparisons are always negative (you guys really love the word "liability", don't you?), and these are the three characters that are most clearly implied to have some forms of anxiety and/or depression. We all know that the comparison trend stems from them making plot-effecting mistakes, but the pattern here isn't a coincidence. There's a pretty heavy unfortunate implication when you treat a character who's struggling with emotional issues like they're just a load that will only weight you down.
And I know the game is how you choose to make it, but I feel like a lot of players don't understand that this isn't a game where the end goal is "winning." The whole "they're a liability, I'm going to throw them under the bus the first chance I get" is absolutely pointless here. This isn't a run-of-the-mill FPS where you get an achievement if you kill the most zombies. It's a game about morality and humanity, exploring relationships and how people survive. In a story like this, characters like Nick, Sarah, and Ben--ones who aren't the ever-prepared, always badass, grizzled and clever protagonist archetypes--they're your real prize. They tell a story and show a kind of person that other games don't want to admit exist. They show flaws and fear and trauma. They show a part of ourselves that we're scared to admit might come out if we were ever in a disaster like this.
I'm not asking you to love them or sympathize with them--just to maybe look at them from a different perspective. And for god's sake, stop acting like Telltale would be so lazy as to recycle a character twice.
Comments
THANK YOU.
Agreed!
That's exactly what I've been trying to say for the past little while but players seem to hate Ben so much that they don't like listening. Realistically, not everybody is going to fully adapt to living in a zombie apocalypse. What makes Ben and Sarah and Nick so great is that they don't act like Lee, Kenny, and Lilly. They are going to struggle with how much is now expected of them and make mistakes. Not everybody is going to be able to pick up a shotgun and fend for themselves with barely any experience or training. Not everybody is going to be able to constantly be on the move and let go of the past -- Nick is still grieving Pete and his mom and dealing with the guilt. And to top it off, these are all young people who come from very different backgrounds who are placed in a horrible situation. Was it good of Ben to run from the walkers instead of protecting Clementine? No, but panic is something all of us would feel in that situation, regardless of whether we ran or not.
I love the fact that Telltale creates characters who respond to their environments in completely different ways. At their core, most of the people we have met are good people. Nick and Sarah are incredibly loyal and protective people when it comes to their loved ones. Ben is a good natured kid who only wanted to prove his worth to the group. But they have flaws and I love it. Who wants to play a game with themes of morality, survival, family and trust when all the characters know exactly right from wrong and how to approach every situation?
Nick, Ben and Sarah may draw parallels but they're all their own person. They have their own separate families, history, fears, and arcs. I hate the fact that Ben has been simply reduced to a "screw up" when he's an absolutely fantastic character -- not that he's done fantastic things but that the way he's been written is. Nick and Sarah deserve their own ground to stand on and to be viewed as individuals. This goes for every other character, as well, who may be treated as "Ben 2.0"
You are saying different things than what @skoothz said. You are asking us to love them, and if there's anything that my parents taught since the very beggining was that you don't argue about likes nor dislikes. Everyone is different. I hate Ben, but I understand he's had some troubless back when the ZA started. In my opinion, he's a jerk anyway, like when you leave him with the chore of babysitting Clem an he tottaly FAILS and doesn't even care. He wasn't put under pressure that time and still he let her go outside alone and stayed inside with Kenny (the drunk version of Kenny). Now, that's my opinion, and I respect yours, 'til when it starts to criticise the ones that do not like him.
"But they have flaws and I love it." I love it too, but loving the fact that they are not perfect (no one is) isn't the same as loving them! Please man, think before you write.
No? That is asking too much of someone. My whole point was that it's disappointing that people reduce Ben, Sarah and Nick as "liabilities" simply because they unintentionally mess up and create problems for the group. They are also their own characters with their own backgrounds and motivations. Sarah is not Ben. Nick is not Ben. Ben is Ben, Nick is Nick, and Sarah is Sarah. As for your first point..
That's pretty much what I said in my second paragraph. They are characters who struggle emotionally and don't always make the right call.
And that is also what I said in my third sentence of my last paragraph.
I apologize if you took offense to what I said but I was never asking anybody to become part of the Ben Paul Fanclub. I was saying that you don't have to like the character in order to appreciate what they bring to the story and understand why they do what they do. (By the way, Ben does indicate his guilt a lot and the pressure he puts on himself. I can't recall when exactly it happens, I think it might be when they're all trapped in the attic in episode five, but he does say something along the lines of wanting to prove himself.)
Thanks. I think I gotta apolagize too, I guess that I still can't handle really well with the fact that I dropped him
I regret it and I guess I just try to get some arguments that he was a jerk so I can convince myself that he deserved to die. The truth is, no one does. So maybe, I'm the one who should be apolagizing. I'm sorry.
You have nothing to apologize for. You can dislike Ben if that's how you feel. What's great about the characters is that we always feel strongly about them -- be it negatively or positively. Ben did a lot of not so good things so you're still justified in not liking him if you don't want to.
I guess you're right
this game has such emotions man! should be GOTY but for some reason it's not
Well, you just got a portuguese pal here
It's a shame people compare Nick to Ben. Ben kept the secret about stealing supplies for ages. As soon as Nick realised he shot Matthew, he immediately wanted to tell Walter.
I feel like the only reason why this has even become a subject was that one option you had in episode 2: "I knew someone like you." This is the only part where Ben was indirectly mentioned and compared to Nick. And even though they both are complete different characters in their very own complexity, people stuck on to this one little moment about Nick. To me, Nick reminded me mostly of Kenny and Lilly first time I saw him, yet remained his very own character to me. I never saw him as a copy of any of the characters, especially not Ben.
There are so many characters in this game that at one point screwed up, but I don't see anyone calling them "Ben 2.0."
One of the moments I really adored him. I don't think I would've had the guts to do that, honestly.
Well, I only say that Nick is Ben2.0 because he just reminds me of Ben in general for some odd reason.
I really do disagree with Sarah being Ben2.0 though.
There was one group that kicked out and even killed the liabilities of the group. Can someone refresh my memory and tell me what happened to them?
I don't see why people hate on Ben. He is a good kid, who made some bad choices. I like Nick too, to be honest. I didn't really care he shot Walter's friend. At the time i understood why he did it, you run up on someone, and they point their gun at you. Nick took that shot, sure it was a bad call, but not everything in life is so crystal clear.
Sarah i just feel bad for her. Life is tough in the Zombie Apocalypse.
I think its just an innocuous little comparison. Because Ben was known for being a continuous "screw-up," anyone who shows similarities to that gets lumped in with him. Nothing to get too heating about honestly though.
Crawford? No one really knows exactly, but at some point the place got overrun with zombies and the leader hanged himself.
They were rotten people who got what was coming to them. You'd think that would teach some fans a lesson about the whole "liability" thing, but I guess not.
Yeah, it probably started with the Doctor that got stabbed by Anna Correa, but yeah. They're a perfect example for that case, how throwing out 'liabilities' can come back to you and bite you in the butt.
That's fucking stupid Ben 2.0.
If you throw him under the bus and say "he's just like everyone else", though, Nick lies to Walter. I saw it in a walk through and was pretty disappointed. It didn't feel right.
HEY BANDITS CHILL TAKE SOME PILLS
HEY VERNON CHILL HERE IS OUR FUCKING BOAT!
i left ben with the boat
I left Kenny with the boat.
I left both with the boat.
I'm sure Boat appreciated the company.
yeah my reverse grammar always stays funny