Someone stated before Cold blooded murder is planned out, she didn't excactly plan to kill Carley, Carley pushed it and Lilly shot her out of anger with the best interest of the group at mind.
Lilly is Murder she cold blooded shot Carley in the head she was the best character beside Clem and Kenny. She also wanted to shot Ben but s… morehot Doug. I would really be happy if we see her again in season 2. I mean you never saw her die so she could come back.
I'm just gonna go ahead and put this out there right now: if Lilly was a guy, most people here would be singing a different tune. There would be a lot more folks finding ways to excuse "his" awful behavior.
I have no interest in defending her actions--I like Lilly, but I won't defend what she did--but there's no doubt in my mind that the hate against her has a lot to do with her gender. Just look at how quick people are to defend characters like Lee, Kenny, and Nick (who I all like, so don't think I'm throwing them under the bus here, just making a comparison), whereas with Lilly it's just "Fuck that bitch she killed my waifu." That's an obnoxious way to view both Lilly and Carley.
But would you want her around Duck or Clem after what she did? She may have just snapped, but what if she snapped again?
If there weren't… more kids in the group, I would let Lilly back on the RV, but keep her tied up so tight that she couldn't escape; and keep a VERY close eye on her.
You never give her a chance you fucking hand-cuff her, that doesn't seem like a "You just have to prove your forgiveness." It seems like a "Bitch you gonna pay when we find out what to do."
She just lost it with stress...she even mentioned the stolen goods within the camp...she didn't have to say anything...she mentioned this because she cared about her group...
With all these stress happening from the camp...i could understand why she lost it...
You're missing the point. I think Dyeingbrad was simply pointing out why Lilly didn't try to redeem herself. From her point of view, she was screwed if she stayed with the group, and didn't have the chance even if she wanted it.
Except you have to remember that Lilly’s situation was pretty unique. In her case, trusted group members (in her eyes) betrayed her and murdered her father. And afterwards, not only could she not get any form of closure or revenge, said murdered bullied her for days on end with no signs of sympathy or apology. It makes perfect sense that she’d react with rage and paranoia. What I’m saying is that, regardless of whether or not her experiences were “worse”, her development as a result of them made perfect sense and can’t be compared with others’ experiences and their reactions to them.
1 or 2 Trusted group members betrayed her and "murdered" her father. Just two people and she decided to punish the one person that never did anything to her or anybody else for that matter. She wouldn't kill the two cannibals that cause her dads death, she wouldn't kill the two guys that "kill" her dad but she would be happy to kill an innocent person that doesn't cause problems for her or the group, this here where it makes no sense. And like I said other characters suffered something similar but they don't kill people for nothing especially ones they know in their own group. Abraham Ford & Michonne, Lilly's tragedy is nothing compared to theirs but they help people and didn't need any consoling and Michonne was a lawyer.
Let’s not forget that in some scenarios, Kenny outright tells Lee “I’ll see you when you’re done” as he’s holding Ben. And of course, Kenny’s furious rage if Lee decides to save Ben doesn’t mean anything, right? In fact, I’d say what Kenny did there was even more despicable than Lilly’s murder because, not only was he encouraging someone else to do the killing for him so he could avoid guilt and blame, the death wish was far more pre-meditated than Lilly’s action, and Kenny was using Ben, a teenager, as a tool to avoid all the blame for his family’s death.
Did Kenny tell Lee "Drop him, he killed my family"? If he did then you have a case but other than that then there's no sign of him goading, all he did was make a suggestion. Furious rage? Did he get angry at Lee or did he get angry at the fact that Ben nearly got them all killed, heck Christa was even annoyed with Ben. And how is wanting someone dead for causing the death of your family worse than killing someone who did nothing to antagonize you? All Kenny did was give a nod to Lee who was struggling o hold onto Ben and this was after Ben told Lee to drop him, I wouldn't say that was encouraging, did Carley ask Lilly to shoot her? In the end, did Kenny kill Ben in cold blood? No. And you said "Kenny was using Ben, a teenager, as a tool to avoid all the blame for his family’s death", wasn't Lilly doing the same thing with Carley/Ben to avoid the blame for the loss of the supplies during the motel raid?
Never mind the fact that Ben had good intentions. Never mind the fact that the direct reason Duck got bit was because, instead of protecting his family, Kenny ran straight for the RV without sparing them a second thought. Never mind the fact that one reason Kat killed herself was because Kenny refused to give her emotional support when she needed it most. Saying the only reason Kenny wanted Lee to drop Ben was because Ben asked him to is incredibly naïve. Of course, this doesn’t really relate to the Lilly discussion, just one wanted to point out that horrible situations make people do horrible things. Christa said it best: “They’re not invalids, they’re people. People who’ve been through shitty situations…”
Just a note, Kenny ran to the RV to get it started, if he didn't do that then they would all be dead. Kat killing herself was all on her, Kenny already accepted that they were going to put Duck down but Kat couldn't handle it. Ben accepted his fate and Kenny took advantage of that but he doesn't hold it against Lee if he didn't drop him, yeah Kenny wanted Ben dead, are you telling me Lilly never wanted Kenny or Lee(determinant) dead? Besides, Kenny didn't know what Ben's intention was, Ben only told Lee why he did it, don't forget Lilly tried killing Ben in one version and she had no evidence or a reason meanwhile Kenny at least had his reason and like I said, he doesn't make an attempt to take away Ben's life. If you want to criticize Kenny for using Ben as a tool to avoid the blame then what about your darling Lilly who used Carley/Ben as a tool to avoid the blame for the motel incident, never mind that she recklessly kept everyone at the motel when she knew about the bandit threat or never had a plan b or that she did piss poor job at guarding the supplies since an idiot like Ben stole some supplies under her nose. She takes no responsibility yet blames everything on this traitor. And Christa said that about Vernon who I said had a reason, what would she think of Lilly who murdered someone in cold blood and robbed the group that consisted of Clementine who she is now taking care of for dead? I'm sure she would have a different opinion.
Except that’s exactly what she was doing. “Dad, he’s just a boy” etc. is reasoning with him peacefully, is it not? And obviously that didn’t work.
That wasn't enough, she telling her dad he's a boy and her dad's telling her he's bitten, she could've said something along the lines of "dad, I'm in charge, let me handle this, let's see if he's bitten before we decide what to do". But she just stood there and allowed her dad to antagonize Lee's group since she's supposed to be the leader.
Actually, I’ve never heard of Lilly bringing up Clem beforehand. How’d you get that to happen? Anyways, you have to remember that was only in your playthrough; in others’, Lilly’s only reason to bring up Clem was out of genuine concern. I also brought up the camera and hairbands because it's one of the few times a character besides Lee interacts with Clem, which is pretty significant. One of my complaints with S1 was that almost no one besides Lee ever even talks to Clem, and I find it hard to believe that it's an accident that Lilly interacts with Clem more than any other supporting character outside of Christa.
OK, let's say it your way. Most likely she would've said that to get Lee on her side, remember in the RV when she was mouthing off and you tell her to calm down, she'll tell him he can't "abstain". And you know I'm going to go back on the RV incident, it's naive to say she "cared" about a little girl only for her to leave that little girl to die. Would you think Troy had concern for Clem, him asking how she was and saving her isn't enough for the gamers on his board but one sentence is enough for Lilly? Only one time we saw her interact with Lilly and that was in the recording, she was saddened when Doug/Carley were killed and we never saw them interact, who's to say they never interacted within the span of 3 months.
And her actions after such a climactic event as Carley/Doug’s murder isn’t an accurate portrayal of her entire character. As Katjaa said, she was “probably in shock” after doing such a monstrous thing. You seem dead certain that she abandoned them just because she’s a spiteful bitch, but the view that she left because she was a paranoid wreck by that point holds just as much water.
It shows how much of a selfish coward she is. You really believe that she cares about the group after what she did and believe she only did this because her daddy died? Never mind that others suffered a similar tragedy but this seems to be the only excuse going for her. She kills an ally in cold blood and shows no emotion or regret and leaves you for dead and shows no emotion or regret, of course a spiteful bitch would have the heart to do that, what did you think people would think of her? An Angel?
I thought the implication was that the RV had some food left, judging by the Banang. As for killing her; Kenny, the man who showed remorse for about a second and then spent the subsequent week bullying Lilly and/or Lee for trying to save Larry and rubbing the fact that he was a dead man into their faces. Not to mention Kenny left a girl to die in Macon. His actions may be justified, but Lilly had every right to expect no mercy from him.
Well it seemed they had no supplies according to Lilly. Kenny hasn't killed anybody up to that point, I don't think you would count Larry as Kenny believed he was dead, you really think he'll have it in him to do it. Kenny recommended leaving her if you forgot, that was his mercy to her and he would mention it again. Besides, Lilly didn't look scared or plead with the group.
Once again, Kenny’s and potentially Lee’s actions did not send her the message that they were giving her a second chance. Kenny’s ruthlessness up to that point, as well as potentially Lee’s. Makes sense that Lilly would think the group was bringing her along to punish her, not to redeem her. Not to mention Lee’s dialogue choice of “We’re gonna punish her” when Clem asks about her. It’s optional, but Lilly’s paranoia obviously wasn’t unfounded in that case.
Kenny said leave her, Lee said no, told her to get in and tied her up. What did she expect was gonna happen? They roll over and let it slide, obviously they would restrain her, did she believe they would torture her? When Lee said punish her, I don't believe she being that far would be able to hear.
My point was that the group simply going “How ya doing, champ?” was not enough at all. Lee’s attempts to console never go beyond a simple “How d’you do?” Which sucks, because she clearly could’ve used more help. And as for Kenny… he (understandably) mopes about his family for ages, and once again, his wanting to kill Ben…
So your saying Lilly didn't mope in a span of one week and not want Kenny dead? Yeah Kenny moped but he also does things as well whereas Lilly was hiding in that one room.
Keep in mind that only people who absolutely hate Lilly would likely react like this. I’d think for other players, namely Lilly fans or people who’re on the fence about Lilly, this would be an interesting and difficult dilemma. Whatever you might think, I’m not really a big fan of Lilly. I pity her and think that her character is fascinating, not a cookie-cutter, morally pitch-black villain. But she sure as hell is not a favourite, or even liked, character (that honor goes to Clem, Lee, Christa, and Sarah :P )
You don't think she would act like a bitch and justify her actions considering she did that in Season 1? You think she'd be OK with Clem if she reveals to everybody that she's a murderer and a backstabbing thief and ruins whatever she has going on? You think she'd shed a tear when she hears that Lee died when she left him to die, killed someone he was close with and outs him out as a killer to save herself? You have to be naive to think she'll be a remorseful hero when never showed the signs in Season 1.
What Lilly did was nothing compared to what the St Johns, The Governor, The Stranger, The Hunters, The Bandits, and Carver did. She killed someone without premeditation or thought, while the people you listed clearly knew what they were doing and didn’t regret it one bit (with the arguable exception of the Stranger). And once again, I don’t want her to return as a hero, that would be absolutely horrible. I just want her to return and her arc be given a satisfying conclusin. People who hate her can refuse to forgive her, and others can be given the option to move past what she did. I want to see how she’s evolved as a character since season 1, I want to see how she’d interact with Kenny once they realize how similar they are and that they’ve suffered the same things. And when did Carver kill a person in the heat of the moment?
They kill innocent people and showed no remorse, sounds a lot like Lilly who knew what she was doing and had the intent to kill. Besides, were they not regular people themselves? I'd like her to return but I wont like the option of being nice to her and being angry with her because that would ruin Clem's character, you may make the choices and control them but you can't like someone as cold as Lilly who hurt them previously. After everything Kenny has been through, it'll make him look stupid if he compares himself with Lilly knowing he killed a dead guy that threatened his son while she killed an innocent that did nothing to her. They'll go back to fighting and he'll tell the new group that she can't be trusted and tells them what she did and Lilly will play the victim card. Carver killing Reggie & Walter, wouldn't you say that was in the heat of the moment considering he has a temper and loses it easily.
My point is that others suffered a traumatic experience, even worse and I can list out the characters that went through it and didn't do hal… moref the shit Lilly did.
Except you have to remember that Lilly’s situation was pretty unique. In her case, trusted group members (in her eyes) betrayed her and murdered her father. And afterwards, not only could she not get any form of closure or revenge, said murdered bullied her for days on end with no signs of sympathy or apology. It makes perfect sense that she’d react with rage and paranoia. What I’m saying is that, regardless of whether or not her experiences were “worse”, her development as a result of them made perfect sense and can’t be compared with others’ experiences and their reactions to them.
Kenny didn't goad Lee to drop Ben, he suggested it because Lee was struggling to hold onto him and Ben even told him to let him go. As much as it pissed me off, Vernon did it to help his gr… [view original content]
She probably thought they'd be fine since they'd just found a train.
If Lee sided with Kenny during all the fights, she says she had the chance to kill Lee in the RV when he had his back turned to her, but didn't do it because she knows Clem is attached to him.
1 or 2 Trusted group members betrayed her and "murdered" her father. Just two people and she decided to punish the one person that never did anything to her or anybody else for that matter. She wouldn't kill the two cannibals that cause her dads death, she wouldn't kill the two guys that "kill" her dad but she would be happy to kill an innocent person that doesn't cause problems for her or the group, this here where it makes no sense. And like I said other characters suffered something similar but they don't kill people for nothing especially ones they know in their own group. Abraham Ford & Michonne, Lilly's tragedy is nothing compared to theirs but they help people and didn't need any consoling and Michonne was a lawyer.
What I’m saying is that the reason Lilly killed someone wasn’t because she’s an evil person. She killed someone in a fit of insane paranoia, and the reason she got that way was because of the specific experience she suffered. The fact that trusted group members “betrayed” is precisely why she became so paranoid. How tragic their experiences are is irrelevant, I was discussing why Lilly’s specific situation led her to do what she did.
It's not like some kind of math equation, where the severity of a tragedy is directly proportional to how unhinged a person becomes as a result of it. You have to take the specific situation and the specific factors and consequences into account, instead of just saying "Oh, this person suffered a tragedy and didn't kill someone. Therefore, if another person suffers a tragedy that is subjectively less serious than the aforementioned tragedy, said other person has no reason to kill someone other than being naturally being evil!"
Did Kenny tell Lee "Drop him, he killed my family"? If he did then you have a case but other than that then there's no sign of him goading, all he did was make a suggestion. Furious rage? Did he get angry at Lee or did he get angry at the fact that Ben nearly got them all killed, heck Christa was even annoyed with Ben. And how is wanting someone dead for causing the death of your family worse than killing someone who did nothing to antagonize you? All Kenny did was give a nod to Lee who was struggling o hold onto Ben and this was after Ben told Lee to drop him, I wouldn't say that was encouraging, did Carley ask Lilly to shoot her? In the end, did Kenny kill Ben in cold blood? No. And you said "Kenny was using Ben, a teenager, as a tool to avoid all the blame for his family’s death", wasn't Lilly doing the same thing with Carley/Ben to avoid the blame for the loss of the supplies during the motel raid?
Just a note, Kenny ran to the RV to get it started, if he didn't do that then they would all be dead. Kat killing herself was all on her, Kenny already accepted that they were going to put Duck down but Kat couldn't handle it. Ben accepted his fate and Kenny took advantage of that but he doesn't hold it against Lee if he didn't drop him, yeah Kenny wanted Ben dead, are you telling me Lilly never wanted Kenny or Lee(determinant) dead? Besides, Kenny didn't know what Ben's intention was, Ben only told Lee why he did it, don't forget Lilly tried killing Ben in one version and she had no evidence or a reason meanwhile Kenny at least had his reason and like I said, he doesn't make an attempt to take away Ben's life. If you want to criticize Kenny for using Ben as a tool to avoid the blame then what about your darling Lilly who used Carley/Ben as a tool to avoid the blame for the motel incident, never mind that she recklessly kept everyone at the motel when she knew about the bandit threat or never had a plan b or that she did piss poor job at guarding the supplies since an idiot like Ben stole some supplies under her nose. She takes no responsibility yet blames everything on this traitor. And Christa said that about Vernon who I said had a reason, what would she think of Lilly who murdered someone in cold blood and robbed the group that consisted of Clementine who she is now taking care of for dead? I'm sure she would have a different opinion.
“We almost didn’t make it out of there because of this asshole. Should’ve left him when we had the chance.” -glares at Lee
“Lee should’ve left you in Crawford!”
“I’ll see you when you’re done.” – Kenny, as Lee is struggling to hold Ben. I find it hard to believe Kenny meant ‘I’ll see you once you’ve pulled Ben up’, otherwise he would’ve helped pull him up.
"Stop wishing I was dead!" - Ben.
Let’s get this out of the way, Kenny wanted Ben dead, no question. And Kenny had not right to order Lee to kill Ben for what he did, just as Lilly had no right to murder Carley. Ben made a huge mistake, but it did not warrant a death wish. Worst of all is how Kenny uses Ben as an excuse to escape his own responsibility for his family’s death, which is what I find so much more disgusting than anything Lilly did.
And you’re absolutely right! They were doing the same thing! They both did horrible, disgusting things by taking out the blame on someone else! What I’m saying is that we have to consider why regular people would do something like that. Neither Kenny nor Lilly did what they did purely because they’re horrible people.
And would it have been so hard to take his family with him to the RV? We see firsthand in episode 1 that Kenny is more than capable of running away with his family in dangerous situations. Could he really not have spared a second to grab Kat and Duck’s hands and lead them to safety? His irresponsibility and carelessness is to blame here. And it was all Kat’s fault for killing herself? Lee can tell Kenny multiple times that his wife needs some goddamn support, and Kenny basically just tells him “shut up! She’s fine!” It was Kenny’s responsibility to help Kat when she needed it the most, and though it was ultimately her decision to kill herself, Kenny stood by and did absolutely nothing for her but ignore or snap at her. And he seriously has the audacity to push 100% of the blame on Ben? And Kenny knew Ben’s intentions, he says right in the classroom that he was slipping them supplies to keep the bandits of their backs. And he doesn’t hold it against Lee if he saves Ben? Not true…
That wasn't enough, she telling her dad he's a boy and her dad's telling her he's bitten, she could've said something along the lines of "dad, I'm in charge, let me handle this, let's see if he's bitten before we decide what to do". But she just stood there and allowed her dad to antagonize Lee's group since she's supposed to be the leader.
Once again, it’s very likely that Larry has been bullying her to do things his way for years before the apocalypse. She didn’t stand there and do nothing, the fact that she’d even stick up for Duck at all at least deserves notice. Hell, she did more to defend Duck than Glenn, Carley and Doug combined!
OK, let's say it your way. Most likely she would've said that to get Lee on her side, remember in the RV when she was mouthing off and you tell her to calm down, she'll tell him he can't "abstain". And you know I'm going to go back on the RV incident, it's naive to say she "cared" about a little girl only for her to leave that little girl to die. Would you think Troy had concern for Clem, him asking how she was and saving her isn't enough for the gamers on his board but one sentence is enough for Lilly? Only one time we saw her interact with Lilly and that was in the recording, she was saddened when Doug/Carley were killed and we never saw them interact, who's to say they never interacted within the span of 3 months.
Once again, Lilly already had Lee on his side, long before she ever brought up Clem. And she also never brings up Clem during the RV argument as a means to push Lee either. And you can’t compare Lilly to Troy. Lilly never beat Clem senseless for no reason. The worst she ever did to her was leave her when she took the RV, which, again, was not an act of malice towards the girl.
It shows how much of a selfish coward she is. You really believe that she cares about the group after what she did and believe she only did this because her daddy died? Never mind that others suffered a similar tragedy but this seems to be the only excuse going for her. She kills an ally in cold blood and shows no emotion or regret and leaves you for dead and shows no emotion or regret, of course a spiteful bitch would have the heart to do that, what did you think people would think of her? An Angel?
Already replied to the “similar tragedies” topic above. If she was a selfish coward, she wouldn’t have jumped in to save Lee from the St.Johns. She wouldn’t have protected Clem while Lee went to save Katjaa. She wouldn’t have saved the group from gunpoint when she had the opportunity to grab her shit and just leave them.
Well it seemed they had no supplies according to Lilly. Kenny hasn't killed anybody up to that point, I don't think you would count Larry as Kenny believed he was dead, you really think he'll have it in him to do it. Kenny recommended leaving her if you forgot, that was his mercy to her and he would mention it again. Besides, Lilly didn't look scared or plead with the group.
Lilly never said that they had no supplies left. She does say “we just lost everything” but implied to be hyperbole for “we just lost the motor inn.” Besides, are you saying Banang doesn’t count as supplies :P
And my point is that from Lilly’s perspective, Kenny was a brutal and unforgiving pragmatist by then. Killing Larry, abandoning the girl… these actions are all reasons for Lilly to expect no mercy from him if she stuck around. And the reason he suggested leaving her wasn’t to spare her, it was so she would die out in the woods alone without Kenny having to get his hands dirty. Lee says so himself “Leaving her out on the side of the road… is the same as murder”. And Lilly pleaded and looked hella scared to me. “She couldn’t be trusted, Lee, please…”
Kenny said leave her, Lee said no, told her to get in and tied her up. What did she expect was gonna happen? They roll over and let it slide, obviously they would restrain her, did she believe they would torture her? When Lee said punish her, I don't believe she being that far would be able to hear.
Not gonna go over this again. What the group was actually going to do doesn’t matter. I pointed out the reasons why Lilly was paranoid about sticking around the group and, as a result, why she escaped and left them. Basically, her reasons for abandoning them were not just “Oh, I’m a selfish bitch so I’m gonna leave them because I can, lol.”
So your saying Lilly didn't mope in a span of one week and not want Kenny dead? Yeah Kenny moped but he also does things as well whereas Lilly was hiding in that one room.
Not sure what you’re point is here. The fact that Lilly shut herself off in her room is exactly what I hated. The fact that the player was given so few options to confront her about her trauma is exactly what I was criticizing and wished we could've done differently. Where was my [Console Lilly] button, Telltale!?
You don't think she would act like a bitch and justify her actions considering she did that in Season 1? You think she'd be OK with Clem if she reveals to everybody that she's a murderer and a backstabbing thief and ruins whatever she has going on? You think she'd shed a tear when she hears that Lee died when she left him to die, killed someone he was close with and outs him out as a killer to save herself? You have to be naive to think she'll be a remorseful hero when never showed the signs in Season 1.
Honestly, I don’t care if she returns as a lunatic, or a remorseful hero, or whatever. I just want her story to be satisfyingly concluded. And Lilly left Lee to die? Going back to your point about Kenny suggesting abandoning her. If Kenny leaving Lilly by the road is mercy, why is Lilly leaving Lee considered as leaving him to die? Kinda contradictory.
They kill innocent people and showed no remorse, sounds a lot like Lilly who knew what she was doing and had the intent to kill. Besides, were they not regular people themselves? I'd like her to return but I wont like the option of being nice to her and being angry with her because that would ruin Clem's character, you may make the choices and control them but you can't like someone as cold as Lilly who hurt them previously. After everything Kenny has been through, it'll make him look stupid if he compares himself with Lilly knowing he killed a dead guy that threatened his son while she killed an innocent that did nothing to her. They'll go back to fighting and he'll tell the new group that she can't be trusted and tells them what she did and Lilly will play the victim card. Carver killing Reggie & Walter, wouldn't you say that was in the heat of the moment considering he has a temper and loses it easily.
And you really can’t compare Lilly with those other characters. People like the St. Johns and bandits knew exactly what they were doing, they’d been killing and hurting people for ages, knew exactly what they were doing, and had no qualms about it. Most importantly, they seemed completely sane while doing so, in the sense that they were completely aware of what they were doing an not under any sort of pressure or trauma whatsoever.
You keep insisting that Lilly was completely remorseless, but look at her reaction to killing Doug. Of course, this is determinant, but I figured since you brought up determinant scenes as evidence, I’d do the same. And please don’t say the fact that her exact quote was “I didn’t mean to. It wasn’t suppose to be him” means she didn’t actually feel remorse, just like how you seem to believe Kenny didn’t want Ben dead simply because he never overtly said “I want you dead, Ben.” Look at her tone, her expressions, her face. She was clearly horrified when she killed Doug. Not to mention, she outright says “I’m sorry Lee. I really am.” If that’s not remorse, I’m not sure what is.
And no, I wouldn’t say Carver’s murders were heat of the moment. Reggie, he clearly killed after weeks of entertaining the idea, finally acting on those thoughts when given the excuse. Walter, he killed after his own men were shot, and realized he’d need to prove to their assailant that he meant business and wasn’t afraid to kill either; meditated strategy in other words, not heat of the moment murder.
Off topic, but it's nice to have a rational discussion like this. I was afraid talking about controversial characters like Lilly and Kenny would've devolved into a flame war or something...
Except you have to remember that Lilly’s situation was pretty unique. In her case, trusted group members (in her eyes) betrayed her and murd… moreered her father. And afterwards, not only could she not get any form of closure or revenge, said murdered bullied her for days on end with no signs of sympathy or apology. It makes perfect sense that she’d react with rage and paranoia. What I’m saying is that, regardless of whether or not her experiences were “worse”, her development as a result of them made perfect sense and can’t be compared with others’ experiences and their reactions to them.
1 or 2 Trusted group members betrayed her and "murdered" her father. Just two people and she decided to punish the one person that never did anything to her or anybody else for that matter. She wouldn't kill the two cannibals that cause her dads death, she wouldn't kill the two guys that "kill" her dad but she would be happy to kill an innocent person tha… [view original content]
She probably thought they'd be fine since they'd just found a train.
If Lee sided with Kenny during all the fights, she says she had the … morechance to kill Lee in the RV when he had his back turned to her, but didn't do it because she knows Clem is attached to him.
I'm just gonna go ahead and put this out there right now: if Lilly was a guy, most people here would be singing a different tune. There woul… mored be a lot more folks finding ways to excuse "his" awful behavior.
I have no interest in defending her actions--I like Lilly, but I won't defend what she did--but there's no doubt in my mind that the hate against her has a lot to do with her gender. Just look at how quick people are to defend characters like Lee, Kenny, and Nick (who I all like, so don't think I'm throwing them under the bus here, just making a comparison), whereas with Lilly it's just "Fuck that bitch she killed my waifu." That's an obnoxious way to view both Lilly and Carley.
What little I know of that scene is that Tyreese was in an open area and would have much more space to move, regardless of being cornered, unlike the alleyway which was packed with walkers on both sides. Also factor in that Tyreese was an imposing guy and very strong, something Kenny is not.
I can believe Kenny would survive the building in the Christa scenario because of how much more space he has. But the alleyway escape would require such insane luck that shouldn't really happen to a character in a world that is supposedly bound to so much painful reality that characters die every other second to show how dangerous the world is.
It was a full death scene and characters were in worse situations Comic Spoilers like Tyrese in the Gym. Kenny could of easily survived both situations.
You are correct, what Lilly did was in a fit of anger.
She had no ironclad proof that Carly was responsible for things going to shit.
And to be fair, Carly did have some legit points in her statements.
Lilly was trying to act tough, but I myself could clearly see it was just a front!
And plus, I personally never saw her lift a finger to help anyone else in the group, after her dad's death.
And it could've been weeks since her dad passed, perhaps longer.
She did help Lee hold off the bandits and walkers long enough for everyone to escape.
I'll give her that.
But as far as helping others from day to day, there was no reference made by anyone of her doing so.
No reference to her going on a supply run, not anything!
That may have been what Kenny was referring to when he said, " We'll take everything in the boxes and mark it, "no hypocrites," and you can have what's left."
And when Lilly stated that what she did was to protect the group, that was not true.
Carly didn't have a gun on anyone, nor was she making verbal threats.
And with no proof that she helped the bandits, Lilly basically killed her for no reason at all.
So there was no justifying her actions.
Kenny, on the other hand, killed a guy who was more than likely already dead, and who if he came back a walker, cause of his size could've easily overpowered both men.
So Kenny has a leg to stand on.
As I was watching Lilly go back and forth in her accusing Carly and Ben, I quickly realized that she was just looking for someone to blame.
She had no proof, and she knew it!
I don't think it's a double standard. Lilly didn't kill Carley/Doug to "protect the group" because it was clearly a heat-of-the-moment execu… moretion and 90% because Carley was taunting her. Kenny killed a man who was already possibly dead. I would love to see Lilly return and "forgive" her but I understand this was a different situation.
That's "gender politics" for you. If a woman shows ANY negative characteristics in any form of media, they'll be demonized by that fanbase. Cause somewhere along the line, people decided that women should be sex objects or romantic interests for the men.
I'm just gonna go ahead and put this out there right now: if Lilly was a guy, most people here would be singing a different tune. There woul… mored be a lot more folks finding ways to excuse "his" awful behavior.
I have no interest in defending her actions--I like Lilly, but I won't defend what she did--but there's no doubt in my mind that the hate against her has a lot to do with her gender. Just look at how quick people are to defend characters like Lee, Kenny, and Nick (who I all like, so don't think I'm throwing them under the bus here, just making a comparison), whereas with Lilly it's just "Fuck that bitch she killed my waifu." That's an obnoxious way to view both Lilly and Carley.
There will always be a seed of hatred inside of me for what she did to Carley/Doug. But this does make the story much more interesting and complex. One way of looking at this is that if Lilly were to return, how would Clementine approach her? Would she be happy to see her like she was with Kenny or will she still hold a grudge against her ?
It's kind of like how Tyresse dealt with what happened to Karen in The TV Series.
Out of the original drug store group, Lilly was my second favourite (after Doug.) I found her realism to be refreshing and she's easy to relate to. Sure she turned a little psycho towards the end but she had just seen her dad get murdered by a fellow group member a week before she snapped.
That's "gender politics" for you. If a woman shows ANY negative characteristics in any form of media, they'll be demonized by that fanbase. … moreCause somewhere along the line, people decided that women should be sex objects or romantic interests for the men.
Well, yeah. Its all down to personal preference. If you got along with Lilly you are more likely to relate to her and show sympathy. I sided with Kenny in the meat locker and I felt real sorry for her after she lost her dad and I held myself and Kenny responsible, and I must say, she is WAY less of a piece of shit than me but what she did was bad. She shouldn't of jumped to conclusions and tried to shoot Ben, in turn killing Doug. Flip side, she just shot Carley point blank in the face, which is much worse. I can't let go the death of a good friend but what I can do is at least TRY and get along with her. I understand she was mentally ill after what she seen and everything she went through but I still feel pissed off at her. If there is a option to slap I'm using it, and then we can try and get along IF she does return that is.
What little I know of that scene is that Tyreese was in an open area and would have much more space to move, regardless of being cornered, u… morenlike the alleyway which was packed with walkers on both sides. Also factor in that Tyreese was an imposing guy and very strong, something Kenny is not.
I can believe Kenny would survive the building in the Christa scenario because of how much more space he has. But the alleyway escape would require such insane luck that shouldn't really happen to a character in a world that is supposedly bound to so much painful reality that characters die every other second to show how dangerous the world is.
You're missing the point. I think Dyeingbrad was simply pointing out why Lilly didn't try to redeem herself. From her point of view, she was screwed if she stayed with the group, and didn't have the chance even if she wanted it.
I use the F-bomb that much, and if you notice civilization has been collapsed for a good 3-4 years, so you'd have to forgive his vocabulary.
How is he stupid? He has a good group going along and he uses his strength and power to scare other groups to supply his group.
I use the F-bomb that much, and if you notice civilization has been collapsed for a good 3-4 years, so you'd have to forgive his vocabulary.… more
How is he stupid? He has a good group going along and he uses his strength and power to scare other groups to supply his group.
Or maybe it has to do with the fact that we didn't know Lee's wife or the senator. I personally would be a lot more willing to forgive someone if they murdered someone I don't know rather than if they murdered one of my closest friends, especially as the situation is presented to us. We never saw Lee's wife or the senator; we had 0 emotional stake in those characters as they were nothing more than back story. Carley was a character we knew and grew attached to over the course of 3 episodes. Also, mind you, there are a percentage of Doug fans that won't forgive her for the same reason.
In the zombie apocalypse who are you more likely to trust/forgive? The person who murdered someone before the outbreak, or the person that murders one of your closest friends that has saved your life on multiple occasions. To me the answer is clear, but alas that's just to me.
"How dare Telltale not give me the option to sleep with this female character! I'm going to express my anger about this by taking it out on the other female character I was less likely to sleep with!"
Er, don't know about you, but I'd be more inclined to mistrust someone who killed pre-apocalypse (no offense Lee). I mean, I could understand why a crazy situation like a zombie outbreak would make people kill, out of necessity or trauma or what have you. I'd be far less understanding towards someone who killed when things were okay, because that would tell me that said person had no respect for the law, was dangerously unstable and prone to fits of murderous rage, etc...
Or maybe it has to do with the fact that we didn't know Lee's wife or the senator. I personally would be a lot more willing to forgive someo… morene if they murdered someone I don't know rather than if they murdered one of my closest friends, especially as the situation is presented to us. We never saw Lee's wife or the senator; we had 0 emotional stake in those characters as they were nothing more than back story. Carley was a character we knew and grew attached to over the course of 3 episodes. Also, mind you, there are a percentage of Doug fans that won't forgive her for the same reason.
In the zombie apocalypse who are you more likely to trust/forgive? The person who murdered someone before the outbreak, or the person that murders one of your closest friends that has saved your life on multiple occasions. To me the answer is clear, but alas that's just to me.
Well you do already know about me, because I made my opinion quite clear, or so I thought.
As for a murderer being someone with no respect for the law, dangerous, unstable, and prone to fits of murderous rage, etc, do you consider soldiers who have killed to be all of those things? Assume the murder was in self defense, or was a cop shooting an armed and dangerous criminal. I did also mention that I'd feel as I do especially so in a situation such as the one presented to us in Season 1, meaning in Lee's case. I didn't find Lee to be any of those things.
Er, don't know about you, but I'd be more inclined to mistrust someone who killed pre-apocalypse (no offense Lee). I mean, I could understan… mored why a crazy situation like a zombie outbreak would make people kill, out of necessity or trauma or what have you. I'd be far less understanding towards someone who killed when things were okay, because that would tell me that said person had no respect for the law, was dangerously unstable and prone to fits of murderous rage, etc...
Comments
Someone stated before Cold blooded murder is planned out, she didn't excactly plan to kill Carley, Carley pushed it and Lilly shot her out of anger with the best interest of the group at mind.
I'm just gonna go ahead and put this out there right now: if Lilly was a guy, most people here would be singing a different tune. There would be a lot more folks finding ways to excuse "his" awful behavior.
I have no interest in defending her actions--I like Lilly, but I won't defend what she did--but there's no doubt in my mind that the hate against her has a lot to do with her gender. Just look at how quick people are to defend characters like Lee, Kenny, and Nick (who I all like, so don't think I'm throwing them under the bus here, just making a comparison), whereas with Lilly it's just "Fuck that bitch she killed my waifu." That's an obnoxious way to view both Lilly and Carley.
This thread.
I highly doubt Lilly would shoot a kid.
Lilly liked Clementine. She cared for her a lot. People really like to forget this.
Well what else were they supposed to do, rub her shoulders and tell her it's gonna be OK, she killed someone!
She just lost it with stress...she even mentioned the stolen goods within the camp...she didn't have to say anything...she mentioned this because she cared about her group...
With all these stress happening from the camp...i could understand why she lost it...
You're missing the point. I think Dyeingbrad was simply pointing out why Lilly didn't try to redeem herself. From her point of view, she was screwed if she stayed with the group, and didn't have the chance even if she wanted it.
The new stuff sucks. Negan is the most stupidest villain ever created. Kirkman is stupid. The comics start off strong, then they fall flat.
But if Lilly did care a lot about Clementine and didn't trust Kenny or Lee, then why would she steal the RV and leave her behind?
Yes she was the one who gave Clementine the hair bands as seen in the train.
1 or 2 Trusted group members betrayed her and "murdered" her father. Just two people and she decided to punish the one person that never did anything to her or anybody else for that matter. She wouldn't kill the two cannibals that cause her dads death, she wouldn't kill the two guys that "kill" her dad but she would be happy to kill an innocent person that doesn't cause problems for her or the group, this here where it makes no sense. And like I said other characters suffered something similar but they don't kill people for nothing especially ones they know in their own group. Abraham Ford & Michonne, Lilly's tragedy is nothing compared to theirs but they help people and didn't need any consoling and Michonne was a lawyer.
Did Kenny tell Lee "Drop him, he killed my family"? If he did then you have a case but other than that then there's no sign of him goading, all he did was make a suggestion. Furious rage? Did he get angry at Lee or did he get angry at the fact that Ben nearly got them all killed, heck Christa was even annoyed with Ben. And how is wanting someone dead for causing the death of your family worse than killing someone who did nothing to antagonize you? All Kenny did was give a nod to Lee who was struggling o hold onto Ben and this was after Ben told Lee to drop him, I wouldn't say that was encouraging, did Carley ask Lilly to shoot her? In the end, did Kenny kill Ben in cold blood? No. And you said "Kenny was using Ben, a teenager, as a tool to avoid all the blame for his family’s death", wasn't Lilly doing the same thing with Carley/Ben to avoid the blame for the loss of the supplies during the motel raid?
Just a note, Kenny ran to the RV to get it started, if he didn't do that then they would all be dead. Kat killing herself was all on her, Kenny already accepted that they were going to put Duck down but Kat couldn't handle it. Ben accepted his fate and Kenny took advantage of that but he doesn't hold it against Lee if he didn't drop him, yeah Kenny wanted Ben dead, are you telling me Lilly never wanted Kenny or Lee(determinant) dead? Besides, Kenny didn't know what Ben's intention was, Ben only told Lee why he did it, don't forget Lilly tried killing Ben in one version and she had no evidence or a reason meanwhile Kenny at least had his reason and like I said, he doesn't make an attempt to take away Ben's life. If you want to criticize Kenny for using Ben as a tool to avoid the blame then what about your darling Lilly who used Carley/Ben as a tool to avoid the blame for the motel incident, never mind that she recklessly kept everyone at the motel when she knew about the bandit threat or never had a plan b or that she did piss poor job at guarding the supplies since an idiot like Ben stole some supplies under her nose. She takes no responsibility yet blames everything on this traitor. And Christa said that about Vernon who I said had a reason, what would she think of Lilly who murdered someone in cold blood and robbed the group that consisted of Clementine who she is now taking care of for dead? I'm sure she would have a different opinion.
That wasn't enough, she telling her dad he's a boy and her dad's telling her he's bitten, she could've said something along the lines of "dad, I'm in charge, let me handle this, let's see if he's bitten before we decide what to do". But she just stood there and allowed her dad to antagonize Lee's group since she's supposed to be the leader.
OK, let's say it your way. Most likely she would've said that to get Lee on her side, remember in the RV when she was mouthing off and you tell her to calm down, she'll tell him he can't "abstain". And you know I'm going to go back on the RV incident, it's naive to say she "cared" about a little girl only for her to leave that little girl to die. Would you think Troy had concern for Clem, him asking how she was and saving her isn't enough for the gamers on his board but one sentence is enough for Lilly? Only one time we saw her interact with Lilly and that was in the recording, she was saddened when Doug/Carley were killed and we never saw them interact, who's to say they never interacted within the span of 3 months.
It shows how much of a selfish coward she is. You really believe that she cares about the group after what she did and believe she only did this because her daddy died? Never mind that others suffered a similar tragedy but this seems to be the only excuse going for her. She kills an ally in cold blood and shows no emotion or regret and leaves you for dead and shows no emotion or regret, of course a spiteful bitch would have the heart to do that, what did you think people would think of her? An Angel?
Well it seemed they had no supplies according to Lilly. Kenny hasn't killed anybody up to that point, I don't think you would count Larry as Kenny believed he was dead, you really think he'll have it in him to do it. Kenny recommended leaving her if you forgot, that was his mercy to her and he would mention it again. Besides, Lilly didn't look scared or plead with the group.
Kenny said leave her, Lee said no, told her to get in and tied her up. What did she expect was gonna happen? They roll over and let it slide, obviously they would restrain her, did she believe they would torture her? When Lee said punish her, I don't believe she being that far would be able to hear.
So your saying Lilly didn't mope in a span of one week and not want Kenny dead? Yeah Kenny moped but he also does things as well whereas Lilly was hiding in that one room.
You don't think she would act like a bitch and justify her actions considering she did that in Season 1? You think she'd be OK with Clem if she reveals to everybody that she's a murderer and a backstabbing thief and ruins whatever she has going on? You think she'd shed a tear when she hears that Lee died when she left him to die, killed someone he was close with and outs him out as a killer to save herself? You have to be naive to think she'll be a remorseful hero when never showed the signs in Season 1.
They kill innocent people and showed no remorse, sounds a lot like Lilly who knew what she was doing and had the intent to kill. Besides, were they not regular people themselves? I'd like her to return but I wont like the option of being nice to her and being angry with her because that would ruin Clem's character, you may make the choices and control them but you can't like someone as cold as Lilly who hurt them previously. After everything Kenny has been through, it'll make him look stupid if he compares himself with Lilly knowing he killed a dead guy that threatened his son while she killed an innocent that did nothing to her. They'll go back to fighting and he'll tell the new group that she can't be trusted and tells them what she did and Lilly will play the victim card. Carver killing Reggie & Walter, wouldn't you say that was in the heat of the moment considering he has a temper and loses it easily.
Anytime
She probably thought they'd be fine since they'd just found a train.
If Lee sided with Kenny during all the fights, she says she had the chance to kill Lee in the RV when he had his back turned to her, but didn't do it because she knows Clem is attached to him.
What I’m saying is that the reason Lilly killed someone wasn’t because she’s an evil person. She killed someone in a fit of insane paranoia, and the reason she got that way was because of the specific experience she suffered. The fact that trusted group members “betrayed” is precisely why she became so paranoid. How tragic their experiences are is irrelevant, I was discussing why Lilly’s specific situation led her to do what she did.
It's not like some kind of math equation, where the severity of a tragedy is directly proportional to how unhinged a person becomes as a result of it. You have to take the specific situation and the specific factors and consequences into account, instead of just saying "Oh, this person suffered a tragedy and didn't kill someone. Therefore, if another person suffers a tragedy that is subjectively less serious than the aforementioned tragedy, said other person has no reason to kill someone other than being naturally being evil!"
“We almost didn’t make it out of there because of this asshole. Should’ve left him when we had the chance.” -glares at Lee
“Lee should’ve left you in Crawford!”
“I’ll see you when you’re done.” – Kenny, as Lee is struggling to hold Ben. I find it hard to believe Kenny meant ‘I’ll see you once you’ve pulled Ben up’, otherwise he would’ve helped pull him up.
"Stop wishing I was dead!" - Ben.
Let’s get this out of the way, Kenny wanted Ben dead, no question. And Kenny had not right to order Lee to kill Ben for what he did, just as Lilly had no right to murder Carley. Ben made a huge mistake, but it did not warrant a death wish. Worst of all is how Kenny uses Ben as an excuse to escape his own responsibility for his family’s death, which is what I find so much more disgusting than anything Lilly did.
And you’re absolutely right! They were doing the same thing! They both did horrible, disgusting things by taking out the blame on someone else! What I’m saying is that we have to consider why regular people would do something like that. Neither Kenny nor Lilly did what they did purely because they’re horrible people.
And would it have been so hard to take his family with him to the RV? We see firsthand in episode 1 that Kenny is more than capable of running away with his family in dangerous situations. Could he really not have spared a second to grab Kat and Duck’s hands and lead them to safety? His irresponsibility and carelessness is to blame here. And it was all Kat’s fault for killing herself? Lee can tell Kenny multiple times that his wife needs some goddamn support, and Kenny basically just tells him “shut up! She’s fine!” It was Kenny’s responsibility to help Kat when she needed it the most, and though it was ultimately her decision to kill herself, Kenny stood by and did absolutely nothing for her but ignore or snap at her. And he seriously has the audacity to push 100% of the blame on Ben? And Kenny knew Ben’s intentions, he says right in the classroom that he was slipping them supplies to keep the bandits of their backs. And he doesn’t hold it against Lee if he saves Ben? Not true…
Once again, it’s very likely that Larry has been bullying her to do things his way for years before the apocalypse. She didn’t stand there and do nothing, the fact that she’d even stick up for Duck at all at least deserves notice. Hell, she did more to defend Duck than Glenn, Carley and Doug combined!
Once again, Lilly already had Lee on his side, long before she ever brought up Clem. And she also never brings up Clem during the RV argument as a means to push Lee either. And you can’t compare Lilly to Troy. Lilly never beat Clem senseless for no reason. The worst she ever did to her was leave her when she took the RV, which, again, was not an act of malice towards the girl.
Already replied to the “similar tragedies” topic above. If she was a selfish coward, she wouldn’t have jumped in to save Lee from the St.Johns. She wouldn’t have protected Clem while Lee went to save Katjaa. She wouldn’t have saved the group from gunpoint when she had the opportunity to grab her shit and just leave them.
Lilly never said that they had no supplies left. She does say “we just lost everything” but implied to be hyperbole for “we just lost the motor inn.” Besides, are you saying Banang doesn’t count as supplies :P
And my point is that from Lilly’s perspective, Kenny was a brutal and unforgiving pragmatist by then. Killing Larry, abandoning the girl… these actions are all reasons for Lilly to expect no mercy from him if she stuck around. And the reason he suggested leaving her wasn’t to spare her, it was so she would die out in the woods alone without Kenny having to get his hands dirty. Lee says so himself “Leaving her out on the side of the road… is the same as murder”. And Lilly pleaded and looked hella scared to me. “She couldn’t be trusted, Lee, please…”
Not gonna go over this again. What the group was actually going to do doesn’t matter. I pointed out the reasons why Lilly was paranoid about sticking around the group and, as a result, why she escaped and left them. Basically, her reasons for abandoning them were not just “Oh, I’m a selfish bitch so I’m gonna leave them because I can, lol.”
Not sure what you’re point is here. The fact that Lilly shut herself off in her room is exactly what I hated. The fact that the player was given so few options to confront her about her trauma is exactly what I was criticizing and wished we could've done differently. Where was my [Console Lilly] button, Telltale!?
Honestly, I don’t care if she returns as a lunatic, or a remorseful hero, or whatever. I just want her story to be satisfyingly concluded. And Lilly left Lee to die? Going back to your point about Kenny suggesting abandoning her. If Kenny leaving Lilly by the road is mercy, why is Lilly leaving Lee considered as leaving him to die? Kinda contradictory.
And you really can’t compare Lilly with those other characters. People like the St. Johns and bandits knew exactly what they were doing, they’d been killing and hurting people for ages, knew exactly what they were doing, and had no qualms about it. Most importantly, they seemed completely sane while doing so, in the sense that they were completely aware of what they were doing an not under any sort of pressure or trauma whatsoever.
You keep insisting that Lilly was completely remorseless, but look at her reaction to killing Doug. Of course, this is determinant, but I figured since you brought up determinant scenes as evidence, I’d do the same. And please don’t say the fact that her exact quote was “I didn’t mean to. It wasn’t suppose to be him” means she didn’t actually feel remorse, just like how you seem to believe Kenny didn’t want Ben dead simply because he never overtly said “I want you dead, Ben.” Look at her tone, her expressions, her face. She was clearly horrified when she killed Doug. Not to mention, she outright says “I’m sorry Lee. I really am.” If that’s not remorse, I’m not sure what is.
And no, I wouldn’t say Carver’s murders were heat of the moment. Reggie, he clearly killed after weeks of entertaining the idea, finally acting on those thoughts when given the excuse. Walter, he killed after his own men were shot, and realized he’d need to prove to their assailant that he meant business and wasn’t afraid to kill either; meditated strategy in other words, not heat of the moment murder.
Off topic, but it's nice to have a rational discussion like this. I was afraid talking about controversial characters like Lilly and Kenny would've devolved into a flame war or something...
At least she didn't try to kidnap Clementine when she took the RV.
I think Lilly was hot, maybe it might be the alcohol talking but, she got a secret she been wanting to tell me , for a long time.
...uh YEAH!?
a man can get really lonely in the zombie apocalypse
Gender?????? You've gotta be kidding me I'm pretty sure if lily was a guy that'd make people want to kill her even more than they did then
What little I know of that scene is that Tyreese was in an open area and would have much more space to move, regardless of being cornered, unlike the alleyway which was packed with walkers on both sides. Also factor in that Tyreese was an imposing guy and very strong, something Kenny is not.
I can believe Kenny would survive the building in the Christa scenario because of how much more space he has. But the alleyway escape would require such insane luck that shouldn't really happen to a character in a world that is supposedly bound to so much painful reality that characters die every other second to show how dangerous the world is.
You are correct, what Lilly did was in a fit of anger.
She had no ironclad proof that Carly was responsible for things going to shit.
And to be fair, Carly did have some legit points in her statements.
Lilly was trying to act tough, but I myself could clearly see it was just a front!
And plus, I personally never saw her lift a finger to help anyone else in the group, after her dad's death.
And it could've been weeks since her dad passed, perhaps longer.
She did help Lee hold off the bandits and walkers long enough for everyone to escape.
I'll give her that.
But as far as helping others from day to day, there was no reference made by anyone of her doing so.
No reference to her going on a supply run, not anything!
That may have been what Kenny was referring to when he said, " We'll take everything in the boxes and mark it, "no hypocrites," and you can have what's left."
And when Lilly stated that what she did was to protect the group, that was not true.
Carly didn't have a gun on anyone, nor was she making verbal threats.
And with no proof that she helped the bandits, Lilly basically killed her for no reason at all.
So there was no justifying her actions.
Kenny, on the other hand, killed a guy who was more than likely already dead, and who if he came back a walker, cause of his size could've easily overpowered both men.
So Kenny has a leg to stand on.
As I was watching Lilly go back and forth in her accusing Carly and Ben, I quickly realized that she was just looking for someone to blame.
She had no proof, and she knew it!
So I to do not think it is a double standard.
That's "gender politics" for you. If a woman shows ANY negative characteristics in any form of media, they'll be demonized by that fanbase. Cause somewhere along the line, people decided that women should be sex objects or romantic interests for the men.
There will always be a seed of hatred inside of me for what she did to Carley/Doug. But this does make the story much more interesting and complex. One way of looking at this is that if Lilly were to return, how would Clementine approach her? Would she be happy to see her like she was with Kenny or will she still hold a grudge against her ?
It's kind of like how Tyresse dealt with what happened to Karen in The TV Series.
Out of the original drug store group, Lilly was my second favourite (after Doug.) I found her realism to be refreshing and she's easy to relate to. Sure she turned a little psycho towards the end but she had just seen her dad get murdered by a fellow group member a week before she snapped.
Yeeeep.
Aren't most people on this forum like 14.
I think Lilly lost her mind, so if she does appear again I would have to see if she has calmed down. And worser is not a word.
Well, yeah. Its all down to personal preference. If you got along with Lilly you are more likely to relate to her and show sympathy. I sided with Kenny in the meat locker and I felt real sorry for her after she lost her dad and I held myself and Kenny responsible, and I must say, she is WAY less of a piece of shit than me but what she did was bad. She shouldn't of jumped to conclusions and tried to shoot Ben, in turn killing Doug. Flip side, she just shot Carley point blank in the face, which is much worse. I can't let go the death of a good friend but what I can do is at least TRY and get along with her. I understand she was mentally ill after what she seen and everything she went through but I still feel pissed off at her. If there is a option to slap I'm using it, and then we can try and get along IF she does return that is.
Negan a stupid villain? I feel he's one of the best especially chained up.
You were right he did have a lot of room, but walkers surrounded him.
He is in that group of walkers and he survived without a scratch. All he had was a hammer.
He's stupid. His use of the F-BOMB is stupid and unrealistic. No one in the entire world is like that. Kirkman is fat and stupid.
Thank you Merak, in that situation I would of done the same thing. It's not like the group was that hindered by it, they lost a RV and gained a train.
I use the F-bomb that much, and if you notice civilization has been collapsed for a good 3-4 years, so you'd have to forgive his vocabulary.
How is he stupid? He has a good group going along and he uses his strength and power to scare other groups to supply his group.
Why are you arguing? I don't like him. So fuck off.
Deserves a like.
I agree
lol I didn't realize there was an age restriction on when you should stop playing video games or talking on a forum
Or maybe it has to do with the fact that we didn't know Lee's wife or the senator. I personally would be a lot more willing to forgive someone if they murdered someone I don't know rather than if they murdered one of my closest friends, especially as the situation is presented to us. We never saw Lee's wife or the senator; we had 0 emotional stake in those characters as they were nothing more than back story. Carley was a character we knew and grew attached to over the course of 3 episodes. Also, mind you, there are a percentage of Doug fans that won't forgive her for the same reason.
In the zombie apocalypse who are you more likely to trust/forgive? The person who murdered someone before the outbreak, or the person that murders one of your closest friends that has saved your life on multiple occasions. To me the answer is clear, but alas that's just to me.
Er, don't know about you, but I'd be more inclined to mistrust someone who killed pre-apocalypse (no offense Lee). I mean, I could understand why a crazy situation like a zombie outbreak would make people kill, out of necessity or trauma or what have you. I'd be far less understanding towards someone who killed when things were okay, because that would tell me that said person had no respect for the law, was dangerously unstable and prone to fits of murderous rage, etc...
Well you do already know about me, because I made my opinion quite clear, or so I thought.
As for a murderer being someone with no respect for the law, dangerous, unstable, and prone to fits of murderous rage, etc, do you consider soldiers who have killed to be all of those things? Assume the murder was in self defense, or was a cop shooting an armed and dangerous criminal. I did also mention that I'd feel as I do especially so in a situation such as the one presented to us in Season 1, meaning in Lee's case. I didn't find Lee to be any of those things.
I'm drunk and lilly looking good. What happened to me!