Clem/kenny relationship unrealistic?
-they barely talked in season 1
-the fact that kenny dont even bother to help lee look for clem unless lee has been good to him shows how much he actually cares for clem
-in season 2 he is only good to clem because she reminds him of duck, as he said in few instances
does anyone else find it a bit weird that kenny suddenly cares for clem so much? inspite of that in season 1 they had nothing in common except the fact that they were in same group. the thing im questioning is that there was no specific development like lee/clem relation or luke/clem relation. Is this relationship only because clem sees lee in kenny and kenny sees duck in clem?
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I thought that too at first. Now I think they're just both happy they found someone they knew before.
She better as hell not see my Lee in Kenny. My Lee takes offense to that.
But yeah, I do somewhat agree that the lack of interaction between Clem and Kenny in S1 makes their apparent closeness in S2 a bit odd. Even Christa had more one-on-one with Clem than Kenny.
Well they both thought the other was dead and they both haven't seen a familar face in months so that's why I think they're so close in S2.
Kenny sees Clem as his own child, that's why he called her duck.
Also, when Clem sees the drawing of Kenny and his family she gets sad because she misses them.
So I don't think it is unrealistic, it would be strange if they didn't really care for each over.
Theres the time inbetween episodes in season 1 where they probably became close. Especially seeing that Clem was Ducks friend.
Lee was Clem's protector then, but now when there's no Lee anymore, Kenny wants to care of the child his best pal protected to the end.
yea but thats determinant isnt it?
My Lee and Kenny had a love-hate relationship with each other, but it ended on good terms.
That's different for my Clem. Unlike Lee, she sees a guy who dropped a salt lick on a man's head despite her protests and swearing profusely most of the time back in S1. It'd make sense for my Clem not to be a big fan of him. I'd argue that it wasn't until the beat-down that my Clem saw just how much Kenny cared for her. But then again, I didn't watch Carver getting his face smashed because it was sort of an allusion back to the meat locker.
It's nice to see how Kenny cares for Clem given that she reminds him of Duck, but the other way around is kind of questionable. My Clem surely doesn't see Lee in Kenny.
Yeah i noticed that Kenny and Clem didn't even really talk in Season 1 and Clem was horrified when Kenny killed Larry and she started crying and shaking, and the only other time you really see Kenny talking to Clem is when he raises his voice at her for saying that duck is sick
It was also mentioned that if Kenny decided to come with Lee and Ben died in episode 4, that Kenny only came to get some anger out from losing his family by brutally slaughtering The Stranger
He didn't raise his voice he just spoke more firmly
I agree it is unrealistic, I think he just likes the idea of a little girl to look after, and not Clementine herself.
Did you forget that the world ended and that the group worked together for a couple months and that people bond while in catastrophes and that Clem saw him lose his entire family in minutes and that Kenny knew she lost her father figure and that he probably didn't know she survived and that Christa probably told Clem how Kenny went to look for her and saved her/helped Ben and that Clem thought Kenny was 100% dead and that they both haven't seen familiar faces they can trust in 2+ years.
Are you saying Kenny's reaction would be more realistic if he said "Oh yeah I know this kid but i never talked to her so I don't trust her, drop your weapons" when they met at the Ski Lodge? Because that would be pretty unrealistic and that's not how humans work.
It's an extremely flawed relationship which players have bought right into whole fully. They had very little known interaction on camera which would be an obvious sign that the trend carried over into time lapses. The relationship built was between Kenny and Lee (the player) and the player carries over that relationship from season one to season two. Beyond a familiar face there was no real preexisting, heart filled relationship between Clem and Kenny, only the player and Kenny.
"You and Clementine are the only family I got left. I'm with ya, until the end." He sure does truly care for Clem in my playthrough at least. In others he might want to protect her because of how much the group went through together by the end of Season 1.
If anything I think Luke and Clementine's relationship is unrealistic. People are acting as if they're BFF's but Clem has only known the Cabin Group for what, 6 days? Whereas with Kenny he is not only an old friend but was with her throughout the first four months of the apocalypse.
Pretty much right
They had to have talked in the three month gap. And it would be exciting to see someone you thought was dead. Even if you didn't have a close relationship. But I see what you mean. I just hate when people make it seem like their relationship is like Clementine and Lee's.
The only lines Kenny has ever spoken to Clementine include telling her she might have spiders in her hair and telling her to get on a train.
I just need to point out that Kenny didn't care about finding her. Even if Kenny didn't like Lee, would he really let a child be in danger and not help?
I don't think it's entirely unrealistic. Both of them were together for months at the start of the apocalypse before they were separated for years. Almost everyone in the original motel group ended up dying in Season 1, and being the only survivors of that group (aside from Lilly) is bound to create a bond that Clem won't really have with the cabin group, no matter how nice they may be or how little Kenny and Clem interacted in Season 1.
I think part of it is that Kenny is, in some subconscious way, searching for a 'replacement' for his lost son. Hence him calling her Duck. Also the whole 'seeing a familiar face' - a child who he thought was dead / a man from her first group at the start of the apocalypse who she thought died trying to save her - probably had some weight too.
Anyway, as much as I'm a Kenny fan, I don't think Kenny and Clem are as close as people make them out to be, at least not right now. I think Kenny definitely cares for her and he has since Season 1 (he is happy when you feed both Clem and Duck but not him in E2, among other things that point to him caring), and anyway they were together for months at the start of all this, surely they must have talked. Seeing as Clem and Duck were friends, it would make sense for Kenny and Clem to have interacted. To say that they didn't really interact at all is fairly silly imo, considering there's months of time we don't see :P
Still, I don't see them as quite as close to the father/daughter bond Lee and Clem had, or the mother/daughter (or big sister/little sister) one I think Christa and Clem would have had. (Seeing as Christa kept Clementine safe for 16+ months [adding in time from the end of S1 to the start of S2.)
Familiarity is a powerful incentive for trust.
Kenny shouldn't even think about Clem as his daughter, because she for damn sure isn't.
I really don't know what to think about the relationship, maybe he's just happy to see someone from the old group after two years?
The Clementine I am playing mostly cares about Luke, Nick, Kenny, and Christa. No one replaces Lee, at least not in my playthrough.
There was more than enough time between episode 1 and episode 2 for them to interact with each other, like Kenny asking if she's okay and stuff like that.
Kenny and Clementine are basically like family. They're the only two members of their original group left.
Kenny was in quite a fucked up state of mind given his family had just died right in front of him and he was mad at Lee, not Clementine. Yet even if Lee is a complete bastard to Kenny the whole game, you can still get Kenny to come simply by reminding him Clementine is like Lee's family. Kenny also states in season 2 episode 2 that Lee was there for him when he needed him most.
So yeah, I do think their relationship is reasonable.
ah i looked back and you're right, all i remember is that he wasn't talking friendly
Yeah but not only are they just glad to see eachother but it looks like theyre suddenly bffs, like Kenny only likes her cause she reminds him of Duck, he even accidentaly calls her Duck, and he will always me like "thats my girl" and hes super defensive over her just cause of Duck
He just wants to feel like he still has Duck
I don't think it's unrealistic, but I think the extent of their relationship can vary strongly depending on how one views Kenny in general. I didn't feel close to his character in S1, and I don't have any strong urge to make my Clementine be especially close with him. If I had major issues with Kenny as Lee, and we were given next to no interaction between him and Clementine in S1, why would I suddenly do a 180 towards him just because he isn't dead? That doesn't automatically make him my Clem's 'family' or guardian or anything just like that, just because she knew him before. He's a good guy and he wants to protect Clem, but that doesn't mean I click with the guy in general, and I feel the Clem and Kenny relationship is much more built up on his end with his familial issues than on hers.
I mean, I can see how other people have Clem's that feel extraordinarily close to him, but I'm just bothered when people make blanket statements about their relationship when there's a lot of room to read the Kenny and Clem relationship as something way less close than a lot of people make it out to be, especially from Clem's POV.
My Kenny refused to go after Clem!(in ep 5).So I don't feel anything for Kenny and my Clementine doesn't have to kiss his ass just because he's from season 1 like I've seen in a lot of playthroughs.Some people just choose something 'cause it's Kenny's ideea,but if it was someone else's,I don't know what they would choose.
I see it as more of a uncle/niece type of thing.
Yeah... After all the conflict in season 1 I found it hard to immediately place Clem and Kenny in a completely trusting relationship. When Sarita said that killing Carver wasn't the Kenny that she knew I was waiting for Clem to say that it was the Kenny that she remembered
He earned some respect taking that beating from Carver, but one can argue that it's not healthy if he's just coming to view Clem as a surrogate Duck.
no one's questioning that hug that was fine but not only did clem and kenny had almost zero interaction in season1 it was also that clem didnt agree with alot of things that kenny did for example taking all stuff from deserted car and smashing Larry's face with not knowing that he was dead or not, its just that there are factors that their relation was not smooth indirectly. I know its good and all when one of your dead groupie just shows up, you feel excited but you dont forget things that he has done especially if kenny's relation with lee has remained cold (since clem was so close to lee).
I think for Clem it's the fact that he did know Lee. Things like when she mentions Lee putting walker guts on her to get them through the horde, and Kenny comments 'good one, Lee' (think he says that regardless of their relationship). It's something that keeps Lee 'alive' for a bit longer in memory. It's good to know that someone else remembers him too.
Also, she might think that prior to realising he's alive, Kenny was another person who died 'because of her'. She can have a bit of survivor's guilt going on, and we don't know how much Omid and Christa told her about what happened when she was kidnapped.
Yes, I personally think their closeness this season is a bit unrealistic, because as others have stated Kenny and Clementine are never actually seen interacting in season 1, aside from maybe two dialogues. It's actually one of the reasons I prefer Luke over Kenny, since at least the two of them have had actual interactions, and formed something of a bond, whereas Kenny's interactions with Clem were mainly through Lee or had Lee present. It's implied even Lilly had more interactions with Clementine with the hair thingies she gave her, but for the most part Clementine mainly interacted with Lee, because Lee was her surrogate father figure, and Kenny doesn't even come close to that, so it confuses me why people think he's suddenly her guardian now.
I've said this before, but I think the reason why Kenny is so attached to Clem now is because he sees her as a replacement for Duck, not in the actual replacement sense, but because she's the only person left alive that remembers Duck, so he has someone to talk to about Duck, because he has been living with Duck on his mind for about 2 years now, and with Clem he now has someone that also remembers Duck, so he isn't alone in that anymore. But looking at it from Clementine's perspective, there's not much reason for her to be close to Kenny, other than maybe she's happy not everyone is dead? Otherwise there's not much else, she doesn't need Kenny to fill the void for that same reason with Lee since she had Omid and Christa that knew Lee, and even told Luke about Lee... so it's really odd imo that she would be that close to Kenny. It is up to players how close Clem can be with Kenny, true, but even then there are moments where I feel they are closer than they should be.
Exactly, it really only makes sense for Clems character to dislike Kenny due to hardly ever talking to him before and how much she hated his actions in season 1
Oh man...first of all, you don't know that. You only know what you've been shown, which are days out of the four months and someting they spent together. Clem was very close to Kenny's family, therefore, there must've been some sort of interaction between the two. She seemed to like him a lot, regardless of what he did to Larry, considering She drew Kenny and his family, just like she had drawn Leem and nobody else.
To defend Kenny, I must say Christa and Omid will refuse to go with you under certain circumstances, same with Ben, if you don't say the right thing. But the thing is, even if you were terrible to Kenny, he'll go with you if you mention Clem is your family. Even though his reasons for not coming with your were shallow, you ought to give him a break. He lost his family a few hours ago, he's broken, he has to make a choice and it's now when everything you've done for him will pay off.
Anyways, he seems to snap out of that selfish state after he finds the dead couple and says he could've been a better father, a better husband and a better friend, so he's willing to do right by you and Clem...funny how you don't seem to take that into account.
Now please take this into consideration;
And I'm sure there are some others moments where they show some kind of interaction or regard of each other.
His decision in episode 4 to come or not come with you was based on how you were with him, they had little to do with his relationship with Clem. He clearly states he worries about her, but this has to do with you, which I agree is pretty shitty, but he's not in his best state, besides, he can come with you if you say the right thing and he compensates for that later in ep5.
In the end you see how much he truly worries about her, going "We're going to find her, with or without you" and how his main motivation for sacrifing was Clem herself, saying stuff like "she needs you Lee!" and "Save her you fucking hear me!?". Now, might I add Gavin's Hammon intake of his character and Clem's relationship?
"Sarita shares lots of characteristics of Katjaa, Kenny also mistakenly called Clementine, Duck. Do you think Kenny is trying to replace Katjaa and Duck completely?"
-I think he's just trying to rebuild after suffering such devastating losses. I don't believe Kenny think she can replace Duck and Katjaa but that he's a bit...off now, and those slips are based on that. He'd already decided protecting Clem would be his mission in S1, but he hadn't found her. Yet!.
Kenny always cared about Clementine, until the very end and Clementine appreciated Kenny and his family, which is shown in the game. Maybe you should put more attention
Luke interacted with Clem at S2E1 and at beggining of S2E2, until the part they get at the lodge, more than Kenny interacted with Clem during the whole Season 1. Also Luke and Clem have a genuine relationship that doesn´t have anything to do with her just being a replacement of his lost family.
Well, I don't want to get in the middle of this I love Kenny vs I hate Kennt thing, but this is just my personal opinion:
in S1 Kenny really showed that he did care about Clementine despite his determinant relationship with Lee, i'll give some examples:
-In S1E1 when Lee tells that he wasn't Clementine's father, Kenny seemed to be worried about her, asking Lee if he knows what he was doing and if he had kids before. At the end of the episode after Kenny seeing that Lee was protecting Clementine no matter what, Kenny tells Lee that he was sorry about distruting Lee taking care of Clementine, and says that she will be just fine with him.
-When Lee is not around to protect Clementine, she is always seen with Katjaa or Kenny, for example in S1E2 when Lee goes to find the bandit camp, Clemetine stays with Kenny and Duck, as Kenny pushes they on the swing.
-in S1E2 despite if you give Kenny some food or not, if you don't give it to Clem and Duck he'll give you hell about it, but if you do he'll thank you for be looking around the kids.
-In S1E5 some old spoilers ahead when Kenny is about to save Ben or Christa, he makes sure that Lee wouldn't come to rescue him because he had to recue Clem, especially in the alley scenes, where he says "You ain't doing shit here, you are going after Clem!" and he lasts words to Lee in Ben's scene was "Go get that Girl", and in Christa's scene was "Save her, you fuckin hear me?!".
Now about Kenny didn't talk too much to Clem in s1.Well, they did have a lot of time together off-screen, I don't think the game would have a lot of available time to make their relationship deeper on-screen. (Sorry if I have made any english mistake in this post)
edit: Some people are saying that Clem might not like Kenny so much for "killing" Larry, but if you choose to help Kenny, in episode 5 where Clementine is about to shot Lee she says "It's like Larry,huh? I know you did it to protect me". So Clementine did understand what Kenny and Lee(in determinant ways) did in the meat locker, so I don't think she doesn't like Kenny because of it.
Yea and on the camcorder lilly was seen talking to clem when she was coloring with chalk on the sidewalk she walked right up to her she knew clem's mom and dad were dead if lee told her in the drugstore so lilly got close to her to help her not feel lonely.
This game (if you can call it a game (interactive story?)) Is all about ur choices, the game needs to give you feedback on those choices, so if you treat kenny like sh1t all through season one then the player needs to feel the result of there actions, the main one being the end of season one and who comes with you for the last hurraarr...
We would all be on here complaining if we had treated kenny like crap all season only for him to say at the end "sure bro lets kick some ass" the game mechanic has to show..
Either way u can get him to come with you which shows to me that the writers wanted to portray kenny as a man with feelings even if he hated lee..
Kenny lost all his family in one day and still kept it together helping the team, lilly went nuts and shot one of her own group, kenny didn't do that even when he found out about ben and the bandit deal..
All this talk about clem and kenny not having any dialogue together is mute imo, we have to read between the lines here, how much dialogue did kenny and his son/wife have? Not a fat lot and they were direct family.
BUT......... I do see the other side of the coin here, on my playthrough S1 me and kenny were buddy's, so its easy for me to imagine lee/clem/kenny sitting down talking laughing and what not, basicly if lee was clems father figure then its not hard for me to see kenny as a uncle figure, but if your playthrough was one with issues with kenny I can see the conflict in some ways, and this is where the game is failing imo on the issue of not having seperate story lines, it should imo been a case where if lee and kenny didnt get on then on meeting kenny in S2 kenny should have been shocked to see clem and even pleased but clem should have had a reaction of not being that pleased to see him and as time goes on they both come to a peace over the past with kenny explaining that he and lee didnt get on but hes there for clem...
Coming off topic slightly im a little disappointed so far with S2, the story is nowhere near as tight as S1 which is disappointing imo, I dont feel like this is a journey it just seems like the story is being shifted from one set to another, by now in S1 I was connected emotionally to several characters, so far in S2 m not, not even luke, kenny is the only guy I really care about due to my relationship with him back in S1.... I hope it improves, these series have so much potential, especially how S1 was told..