If the number one priority is survival, you cannot call yourself a human without having doubts of your humanity, you have to keep a balance between morals and realism, I never said that you have to be the best human possible and die for it, I just said that Tavia had a choice and she chose the selfish one, the one that put her in a comfortable spot at the price of the lives of many others, which she could have avoided by simply going with Carlos and the group or at least trying to stop gruesome acts like the slap Sarah took from her father.
You can't say that everything she did was absolutely necessary because it wasn't, and Bonnie is a great example for someone who was at the same position she was in yet still chose the humane way.
In a world like that your prioritize change, it's not all about justice in that world, the number one priority is survival. That's why I lik… moreed the dilemma from Shels chapter in 400 Days so much. You can allow a strange man to leave your home, give him supplies and be a nice person or kill him so he won't let loose the location of your home. Safety is the key in that world, survival and safety. Justice is not something that keeps you safe, justice is not something that protects you from a gun shot or a walker bite, it's safety that's keep you alive.
And sure she allowed Carver to do sick and horrible things and it can't be abided. But in the end she choose to live knowing she does horrible things but is still alive rather than escape and get killed by bandits, walkers or even Carver himself. It's not black and white, there are shades of greys in the morales of The Walking Dead, these are people who are just trying to survive, they're not o… [view original content]
But to stand up against what Carver was doing would only cause her to end up like Reggie. Maybe she did disagree with it, maybe she didn't like what she was seeing. We don't know, we're only judging it from what we saw. But Bonnie disagreed with it in her own ways while pretending in front of everyone else. Tavia is different, she choose survival over humanity and she's not entirely wrong for that, she choose to survive while others choose to die. She may have given up her humanity in the process but in her view she's still alive, and that's probably all that matters to her.
If the number one priority is survival, you cannot call yourself a human without having doubts of your humanity, you have to keep a balance … morebetween morals and realism, I never said that you have to be the best human possible and die for it, I just said that Tavia had a choice and she chose the selfish one, the one that put her in a comfortable spot at the price of the lives of many others, which she could have avoided by simply going with Carlos and the group or at least trying to stop gruesome acts like the slap Sarah took from her father.
You can't say that everything she did was absolutely necessary because it wasn't, and Bonnie is a great example for someone who was at the same position she was in yet still chose the humane way.
So if Bonnie did it, why couldn't she join Bonnie?
If you give up humanity, it doesn't worth the life you earn, she had a choice in her hands and she could go with the cabin group back when they ran away through a breach, yet she played it safe and chose to stay with the psychopath for protection, she may be alive, but she's dead inside.
But to stand up against what Carver was doing would only cause her to end up like Reggie. Maybe she did disagree with it, maybe she didn't l… moreike what she was seeing. We don't know, we're only judging it from what we saw. But Bonnie disagreed with it in her own ways while pretending in front of everyone else. Tavia is different, she choose survival over humanity and she's not entirely wrong for that, she choose to survive while others choose to die. She may have given up her humanity in the process but in her view she's still alive, and that's probably all that matters to her.
i think the guy holding the gun is determeint if vince stays he will be the one and if russel and vince stays they will be holding the guns you can look at bonnies face she look Suprised (sorry for my bad english)
It's funny because now, no matter what I say in a comment, I will get downvotes even if I don't say anything related to Tavia.
Hypocrisy at it's best people, start giving some good counter arguments instead of raping the downvote button.
Bonnie was in the same conditions as her, yet she made the right call and helped the innocent, you can't justify her actions by saying she may have been through a lot.
I'm almost 100% sure she's dead, she was shot in the stomach by Christa and was probably shot in the head after the scene ended, but still t… morehat shot to the gut would've been enough to kill her, it was a rifle and she (probably) had no help.
EDIT: Wow, either I have a gang of dislike trolls following me, or people are so butthurt from me talking about Tavia's cruelty that they decided to downvote every comment of mine, wether it's related to the topic or not.
Well guess what?
We can't really say that, Tavia seemed quite afraid of Carver in episode 3 when Vince said he was going to tell Carver that she was smoking.... you'd be surprised at what people in fear would do... TWAU....
Bonnie was in the same conditions as her, yet she made the right call and helped the innocent, you can't justify her actions by saying she may have been through a lot.
I'm almost 100% sure she's dead, she was shot in the stomach by Christa and was probably shot in the head after the scene ended, but still t… morehat shot to the gut would've been enough to kill her, it was a rifle and she (probably) had no help.
EDIT: Wow, either I have a gang of dislike trolls following me, or people are so butthurt from me talking about Tavia's cruelty that they decided to downvote every comment of mine, wether it's related to the topic or not.
Well guess what?
We can't really say that, Tavia seemed quite afraid of Carver in episode 3 when Vince said he was going to tell Carver that she was smoking.... you'd be surprised at what people in fear would do... TWAU....
It was a typo, but still if they hate me for an opinion they can go fuck themselves, I meant Michelle, I dunno why I said that, maybe the guy edited it because I can swear he said something about Michelle.
Well, Bonnie gave us the feel she was bad but she said im sorry to Clem and she was never mean with her, she felt bad and guilty thats why i trust her, but Tavia, she insulted Clem's jacket, she was kind of rude with Reggie, and she doesn't feel guilty at all, Tavia was a scared little girl inside a grown up body, Bonnie went through drugs, made some bad decisions but in the end she took the right way and apologized to Clem, Bonnie is awesome, Tavia no.
But to stand up against what Carver was doing would only cause her to end up like Reggie. Maybe she did disagree with it, maybe she didn't l… moreike what she was seeing. We don't know, we're only judging it from what we saw. But Bonnie disagreed with it in her own ways while pretending in front of everyone else. Tavia is different, she choose survival over humanity and she's not entirely wrong for that, she choose to survive while others choose to die. She may have given up her humanity in the process but in her view she's still alive, and that's probably all that matters to her.
Life isn't always about being brave and doing the right thing, people make mistakes, people can either overcome those mistakes or live with them. Tavia isn't Bonnie, Tavia had comfort and safety and she wasn't about to give it all up so that she could risk her own life to save Clem and the gang. Bonnie felt guilt for what she saw and what she was a part of, and her interaction with Clementine made her see that the life she was living was barley a life at all.
Tavia doesn't care, she's safe and comfortable, and she isn't afraid to watch some nasty things to survive, but is she evil for it? No. She's simply looking out for her own survival, it doesn't make her the worst shit in the world today, realistically people are selfish and people don't care. Tavia is one such person.
Well, Bonnie gave us the feel she was bad but she said im sorry to Clem and she was never mean with her, she felt bad and guilty thats why i… more trust her, but Tavia, she insulted Clem's jacket, she was kind of rude with Reggie, and she doesn't feel guilty at all, Tavia was a scared little girl inside a grown up body, Bonnie went through drugs, made some bad decisions but in the end she took the right way and apologized to Clem, Bonnie is awesome, Tavia no.
I agree with you, but Tavia could have done something to make that community a little better, the way Carver was handling that community was not right, he was a leader yes, he had potential, hell yeah i admit it, but he had prisoners not friends, no one was able to leave and they were forced to do dangerous jobs taht could kill them while Carver, Tavia and co. played it safe, she was ok with that, yeah she felt safe and all but she knew they were doing things the wrong way, Bonnie realized it and she decided to leave, Carver even said to Clem no one would have the balls to say something like that to him, cos they knew he would kill them, Carver had prisoners and Tavia knew it, that's why many of us hate her, same happened with Bonnie at first, but now she is awesome, Tavia had her reasons, we can call it survival or whatever, but the way she was surviving wasn't right.
Life isn't always about being brave and doing the right thing, people make mistakes, people can either overcome those mistakes or live with … morethem. Tavia isn't Bonnie, Tavia had comfort and safety and she wasn't about to give it all up so that she could risk her own life to save Clem and the gang. Bonnie felt guilt for what she saw and what she was a part of, and her interaction with Clementine made her see that the life she was living was barley a life at all.
Tavia doesn't care, she's safe and comfortable, and she isn't afraid to watch some nasty things to survive, but is she evil for it? No. She's simply looking out for her own survival, it doesn't make her the worst shit in the world today, realistically people are selfish and people don't care. Tavia is one such person.
It could be linked to the first achievement "Got separated from the group" as half the group isn't there (Jane, Mike, Rebecca, Nick if saved)
There is also a character called Arvo in the game, so maybe we come across him?
Everybody seems to think this person is Victor (the guy from the stream) because he has a similar skin tone to this person, but they probably have gloves on... besides, there's more than one person
You're right, Tavia is one such person, a weak person, a person that is so dependent on others like Carver that she would shit on anyone besides him if it means saving her own ass.
She's a bad person, she had a choice, she chose the selfish choice, Bonnie had like 3 minutes of talking with Clem and that was not what convinced her to change, she was in the same conditions as Tavia, Bonnie made the right call and Tavia made the selfish call.
Does survival even matter anymore when you have a choice? Survival is something only necessary if you have no other choice, and she had a lot of opportunities to oppose Carver like Bonnie did or at least run away with the group in the 1st or 2nd time, she's a cow, a bitch that cares about her own ass and her ass only, you can never justify her actions if she had another choice, a choice that would not only save her, but also prevent countless deaths and pain and save 2 little girls AND an unborn child!
So it was that, or living a good life while being Carver's bitch, and she chose that, fuck that woman and may she burn in a fire.
Life isn't always about being brave and doing the right thing, people make mistakes, people can either overcome those mistakes or live with … morethem. Tavia isn't Bonnie, Tavia had comfort and safety and she wasn't about to give it all up so that she could risk her own life to save Clem and the gang. Bonnie felt guilt for what she saw and what she was a part of, and her interaction with Clementine made her see that the life she was living was barley a life at all.
Tavia doesn't care, she's safe and comfortable, and she isn't afraid to watch some nasty things to survive, but is she evil for it? No. She's simply looking out for her own survival, it doesn't make her the worst shit in the world today, realistically people are selfish and people don't care. Tavia is one such person.
It could be linked to the first achievement "Got separated from the group" as half the group isn't there (Jane, Mike, Rebecca, Nick if saved… more)
There is also a character called Arvo in the game, so maybe we come across him?
Everybody seems to think this person is Victor (the guy from the stream) because he has a similar skin tone to this person, but they probably have gloves on... besides, there's more than one person
You can't actually tell by the skin color. The person aiming the gun at Bonnie is wearing gloves if you look closely, and is wearing a hood over his/her head. So the only thing you can go by is the clothing.
Comments
If the number one priority is survival, you cannot call yourself a human without having doubts of your humanity, you have to keep a balance between morals and realism, I never said that you have to be the best human possible and die for it, I just said that Tavia had a choice and she chose the selfish one, the one that put her in a comfortable spot at the price of the lives of many others, which she could have avoided by simply going with Carlos and the group or at least trying to stop gruesome acts like the slap Sarah took from her father.
You can't say that everything she did was absolutely necessary because it wasn't, and Bonnie is a great example for someone who was at the same position she was in yet still chose the humane way.
But to stand up against what Carver was doing would only cause her to end up like Reggie. Maybe she did disagree with it, maybe she didn't like what she was seeing. We don't know, we're only judging it from what we saw. But Bonnie disagreed with it in her own ways while pretending in front of everyone else. Tavia is different, she choose survival over humanity and she's not entirely wrong for that, she choose to survive while others choose to die. She may have given up her humanity in the process but in her view she's still alive, and that's probably all that matters to her.
So if Bonnie did it, why couldn't she join Bonnie?
If you give up humanity, it doesn't worth the life you earn, she had a choice in her hands and she could go with the cabin group back when they ran away through a breach, yet she played it safe and chose to stay with the psychopath for protection, she may be alive, but she's dead inside.
Exactly.
Maybe they're surrounded by Arvo and his group.
lol, Arvo?
i think the guy holding the gun is determeint if vince stays he will be the one and if russel and vince stays they will be holding the guns you can look at bonnies face she look Suprised (sorry for my bad english)
Yeah leaked choices.
Who's Arvo? He was in the choices?
Arvo, The Pill Master
That's a possibility too!
It was something about stealing pills from him.
I just love to see this many people disscusing and having fun:D
im glad i could post this topic!
It'd make sense because telltale are kind of reusing the ideas of season 1.
Don't worry, have my like!
We don't know her story at all really, we hardly know anything about Tavia and what she may have had to go through
Bonnie was in the same conditions as her, yet she made the right call and helped the innocent, you can't justify her actions by saying she may have been through a lot.
And you have mine!
Nah, if you say victor is dead you will be hated on
We can't really say that, Tavia seemed quite afraid of Carver in episode 3 when Vince said he was going to tell Carver that she was smoking.... you'd be surprised at what people in fear would do... TWAU....
i think They Used Victor/Tavia Model So they wont spoil us you know Telltale they do this Crazy Shit
BAE, OUR BABY LUKE IS ALIVE!
WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. When did Christa shoot VIctor in the stomach?!
Well, Bonnie did it, and she was a drug addict, and Tavia could have done it all the same.
I meant Michelle, oops!
It was a typo, but still if they hate me for an opinion they can go fuck themselves, I meant Michelle, I dunno why I said that, maybe the guy edited it because I can swear he said something about Michelle.
Oooh. It's k.
Guys... What if it's Eddie?
LUUUUKKKEEEEEE
I'm thinking it's either Tavia or somebody in Eddies group we haven't met.
Reminds me of Lewis from Left 4 Dead. “Pills!”
Well, Bonnie gave us the feel she was bad but she said im sorry to Clem and she was never mean with her, she felt bad and guilty thats why i trust her, but Tavia, she insulted Clem's jacket, she was kind of rude with Reggie, and she doesn't feel guilty at all, Tavia was a scared little girl inside a grown up body, Bonnie went through drugs, made some bad decisions but in the end she took the right way and apologized to Clem, Bonnie is awesome, Tavia no.
Life isn't always about being brave and doing the right thing, people make mistakes, people can either overcome those mistakes or live with them. Tavia isn't Bonnie, Tavia had comfort and safety and she wasn't about to give it all up so that she could risk her own life to save Clem and the gang. Bonnie felt guilt for what she saw and what she was a part of, and her interaction with Clementine made her see that the life she was living was barley a life at all.
Tavia doesn't care, she's safe and comfortable, and she isn't afraid to watch some nasty things to survive, but is she evil for it? No. She's simply looking out for her own survival, it doesn't make her the worst shit in the world today, realistically people are selfish and people don't care. Tavia is one such person.
I agree with you, but Tavia could have done something to make that community a little better, the way Carver was handling that community was not right, he was a leader yes, he had potential, hell yeah i admit it, but he had prisoners not friends, no one was able to leave and they were forced to do dangerous jobs taht could kill them while Carver, Tavia and co. played it safe, she was ok with that, yeah she felt safe and all but she knew they were doing things the wrong way, Bonnie realized it and she decided to leave, Carver even said to Clem no one would have the balls to say something like that to him, cos they knew he would kill them, Carver had prisoners and Tavia knew it, that's why many of us hate her, same happened with Bonnie at first, but now she is awesome, Tavia had her reasons, we can call it survival or whatever, but the way she was surviving wasn't right.
It could be linked to the first achievement "Got separated from the group" as half the group isn't there (Jane, Mike, Rebecca, Nick if saved)
There is also a character called Arvo in the game, so maybe we come across him?
Everybody seems to think this person is Victor (the guy from the stream) because he has a similar skin tone to this person, but they probably have gloves on... besides, there's more than one person
You're right, Tavia is one such person, a weak person, a person that is so dependent on others like Carver that she would shit on anyone besides him if it means saving her own ass.
She's a bad person, she had a choice, she chose the selfish choice, Bonnie had like 3 minutes of talking with Clem and that was not what convinced her to change, she was in the same conditions as Tavia, Bonnie made the right call and Tavia made the selfish call.
Does survival even matter anymore when you have a choice? Survival is something only necessary if you have no other choice, and she had a lot of opportunities to oppose Carver like Bonnie did or at least run away with the group in the 1st or 2nd time, she's a cow, a bitch that cares about her own ass and her ass only, you can never justify her actions if she had another choice, a choice that would not only save her, but also prevent countless deaths and pain and save 2 little girls AND an unborn child!
So it was that, or living a good life while being Carver's bitch, and she chose that, fuck that woman and may she burn in a fire.
"Pills over 'ere!"
I think you should spoiler tag this, some people don't want to know that person from ep 4.
You can't actually tell by the skin color. The person aiming the gun at Bonnie is wearing gloves if you look closely, and is wearing a hood over his/her head. So the only thing you can go by is the clothing.