Stranger.
Carver had the potential of being better but he didn't get enough time + Strangers background was better constructed.
You knew some guy was talking to Clem, didn't know who it was and in term a choice in episode 2 could impact the meeting with the guy.
Carver's background was that he had a connection with Rebecca and her baby (at this stage) and tried to live in "his world" which we've seen plenty of times and in the end fails, i.e St Johns, Crawford, The train station, etc.
Carver, the stranger was really boring and IMO the worst part of season 1.
I actually hated Carver and wanted to see him dead, the stranger was just stupid the moment he started talking.
Plus the stranger fails to make a compelling argument for why he should look after Clem if you played like a good person (Like not killing people etc.) and the whole scene falls flat.
Carver. Can't really call him a charmer, but he had that charisma to pull people to him and build a community; and had a cold/ruthless side when crossed/opposed (side note... wonder if he would have just let the cabin group go if Rebecca hadn't been a part of them; since all he seemed to really want was her/the baby back in his camp).
the stranger seemed to me like (to quote the cop from the opening scene in 1-01) a "fussy baby".... wah, you stole my stuff that I left unattended and out in the open during the ZA, so I blame you for everything that happened after that; so now I'm going to take your little girl (since I obviously couldn't care for/provide for my own family). If you're going to just leave your food/water/etc sitting in a car with no one around (keys still in the ignition and the door open), do you really expect that if some other desperate people come along they aren't going to take it? (not to mention, do you really expect to survive that long in the ZA if you don't protect your food/water supply). I could have done without his part entirely, and just had Vernon kidnap Clem to try and get away with her and the boat.
I was just talking about this yesterday, in another thread.
If we're going by sheer brutality and intimidation, then of course the winner is Carver. FFS he's voiced by Michael Madsen, of course he's going to be intimidating. The Stranger was a scrawny man with a '70s jacket and a Norman Bates haircut. Naturally, the guy isn't going to be as scary.
But there's no question that Stranger was better written than Carver. Stranger's story, like that of most people in the apocalypse, is marked by tragedy and loss. He feels immense guilt and responsibility for his family's demise, and he feels legitimate anger towards Lee's group for stealing his supplies. He's psychotic, and a bastard for taking Clementine, but he's still sympathetic.
Carver was just a bastard. I humbly disagree with Gavin996; I find Carver to be the boring villain, not Stranger. We never learn anything about Carver, other than he is probably the father of Rebecca's baby. We know that he is bloodthirsty and ruthless, but we never learn why, so we never really care. I hated him and wanted him dead, but that's about it. As soon as we got out of the complex, I completely forgot about him. He was a very shallow and two-dimensional villain. I'd like someone to convince me otherwise.
I agree with this. Carver could have been an amazing villain. Telltale somewhat rushed his story, I feel, and he never really got the chance to develop into the great antagonist that he could have been.
So perhaps it's unfair to compare him to Stranger. I didn't consider this when I made my first post below. Maybe Carver isn't the main villain of the Season, we still have two more episodes after all.
Stranger.
Carver had the potential of being better but he didn't get enough time + Strangers background was better constructed.
You knew s… moreome guy was talking to Clem, didn't know who it was and in term a choice in episode 2 could impact the meeting with the guy.
Carver's background was that he had a connection with Rebecca and her baby (at this stage) and tried to live in "his world" which we've seen plenty of times and in the end fails, i.e St Johns, Crawford, The train station, etc.
Stranger. Carver had potential to be an interesting gray type of antagonist, but instead we get a lame, 100% evil nut job, who's a bit two dimensional and flat.
Carver, the stranger was really boring and IMO the worst part of season 1.
I actually hated Carver and wanted to see him dead, the stranger… more was just stupid the moment he started talking.
Plus the stranger fails to make a compelling argument for why he should look after Clem if you played like a good person (Like not killing people etc.) and the whole scene falls flat.
It was pretty stupid of the stranger to leave his car running like that, granted he probably thought they weren't going to be gone for long or who knows maybe they JUST left. He took Clementine because he lost his old family and wants to redeem himself sort of mirroring how Lee is redeeming himself with taking care of Clementine, he was more interesting and sympathetic than Carver who was like any other zombie apocalypse villain.
Carver. Can't really call him a charmer, but he had that charisma to pull people to him and build a community; and had a cold/ruthless side … morewhen crossed/opposed (side note... wonder if he would have just let the cabin group go if Rebecca hadn't been a part of them; since all he seemed to really want was her/the baby back in his camp).
the stranger seemed to me like (to quote the cop from the opening scene in 1-01) a "fussy baby".... wah, you stole my stuff that I left unattended and out in the open during the ZA, so I blame you for everything that happened after that; so now I'm going to take your little girl (since I obviously couldn't care for/provide for my own family). If you're going to just leave your food/water/etc sitting in a car with no one around (keys still in the ignition and the door open), do you really expect that if some other desperate people come along they aren't going to take it? (not to mention, do you really expe… [view original content]
I agree. The Stranger was far, far better written and to be quite honest still gives me the creeps when I play that end scene. Carver though, was a waste. We knew nothing of his background, his personality or his reasons for doing what he did. That's the difference. Yes we got some snippets here and there, but he wasn't what I call a real threat. All it took was a bit of planning, a shot to the knees and a crowbar. Bye bye Carver.
Whereas Mr Stranger was cunning, manipulative and resourceful.
Either way, you leave all of your stuff unattended in the ZA and then get obsessively mad because it was taken / the ramifications that follow. Doesn't work for me, but we all have our own view.... and like Gavin mentioned, if you play 100% honest/good Lee, don't touch the wagon supplies, be good to Clem throughout; his whole speech about why he'd be a better protector makes no sense at all (when he starts babbling about Lee putting Clem in danger, there should have been a response like: it's the freakin' apocalypse. The whole world is dangerous... besides, you couldn't even protect the family you HAD).
I agree Carver came/went too fast. They could have done a better job developing the character, but who knows what's planned for ep 4 & 5 (as long it doesn't end up being a stranger part 2: "You stole my can o' beans from the trash and killed my dog Clem, so I've been tracking you for 4 episodes to get my revenge").
It was pretty stupid of the stranger to leave his car running like that, granted he probably thought they weren't going to be gone for long … moreor who knows maybe they JUST left. He took Clementine because he lost his old family and wants to redeem himself sort of mirroring how Lee is redeeming himself with taking care of Clementine, he was more interesting and sympathetic than Carver who was like any other zombie apocalypse villain.
He's obsessed with starting a new family, so perhaps he's possibly lying to himself, the stranger is a puzzle and that's why I find him more interesting.
Either way, you leave all of your stuff unattended in the ZA and then get obsessively mad because it was taken / the ramifications that foll… moreow. Doesn't work for me, but we all have our own view.... and like Gavin mentioned, if you play 100% honest/good Lee, don't touch the wagon supplies, be good to Clem throughout; his whole speech about why he'd be a better protector makes no sense at all (when he starts babbling about Lee putting Clem in danger, there should have been a response like: it's the freakin' apocalypse. The whole world is dangerous... besides, you couldn't even protect the family you HAD).
I agree Carver came/went too fast. They could have done a better job developing the character, but who knows what's planned for ep 4 & 5 (as long it doesn't end up being a stranger part 2: "You stole my can o' beans from the trash and killed my dog Clem, so I've been tracking you for 4 episodes to get my revenge").
He went after Clem because he thought he failed at being a father and a family man and wanted to redeem himself and start over with Clementine, that's way more sympathetic and interesting than " I'm evil and you should hate me" like Carver.
He went after Clem because he thought he failed at being a father and a family man and wanted to redeem himself and start over with Clementine, that's way more sympathetic and interesting than " I'm evil and you should hate me" like Carver.
Well yeah, I'm sure he also blames himself but like I said, redemption is his obsession, the way Telltale wrote Carver in Episode 3 was a bit sloppy and a little forced.
Well yeah, I'm sure he also blames himself but like I said, redemption is his obsession, the way Telltale wrote Carver in Episode 3 was a bit sloppy and a little forced.
Not really, Carver is crazy so he does shitty things like this.
The stranger is crazy the problem is he wasn't explored enough and it was executed terribly.
Carver....
* Tells Carlos to hit Sarah
* Kills Reggie who has one arm, because those kind of folks are awesome and you should hate Car… morever.
* Beats up Kenny, because Kenny is awesome and you should hate Carver.
* Beats up Alvin because Alvin is awesome and you should hate Carver.
No real sympathy, just a standard apocalypse villain you should hate who's not interesting.
Stranger was trying too hard. Even if your Lee was a saint he found the stupidest reasons to blame and accuse him of being a monster.
"Back at the drugstore that reporter girl asked you for help with batteries. And later at the dairy you MADE FUN of her for it! You vile monster!"
"Back at Clementine's house you said you'd like to have a cup of bourbon. Everyone knows Bourbon is the blood of the Devil. I'm not like you. I'd NEVER drink Bourbon! You evil creature incapable of raising a child!"
Carver is crazy because.......? The Stranger is crazy because he lost his only family and thought of himself as a monster and a failure as a dad. Carver, in my opinion, was executed sloppily.
Not really, Carver is crazy so he does shitty things like this.
The stranger is crazy the problem is he wasn't explored enough and it was executed terribly.
He started out with a good community and just started to lose it, got obsessed over his own child (which might not be his anyway)
Everything Carver did he had a reason to do it, obviously he took things too far as he was the villain.
The stranger decides it's Lee's fault because he fucked up makes no sense, it was moronic.
Carver is crazy because.......? The Stranger is crazy because he lost his only family and thought of himself as a monster and a failure as a dad. Carver, in my opinion, was executed sloppily.
"Everything Carver did he had a reason to do it." yeah in episode 2 where he was actually interesting, but not in episode 3 where all he was was just a standard crazy villain which is disappointing considering the first season had antagonist that had some dimension to them. I'm not saying the stranger is the best villain in S1, I just prefer him over Carver, I'd say the St. Johns were better antagonist than the stranger and Carver.
He started out with a good community and just started to lose it, got obsessed over his own child (which might not be his anyway)
Everyth… moreing Carver did he had a reason to do it, obviously he took things too far as he was the villain.
The stranger decides it's Lee's fault because he fucked up makes no sense, it was moronic.
"Everything Carver did he had a reason to do it." yeah in episode 2 where he was actually interesting, but not in episode 3 where all he was… more was just a standard crazy villain which is disappointing considering the first season had antagonist that had some dimension to them. I'm not saying the stranger is the best villain in S1, I just prefer him over Carver, I'd say the St. Johns were better antagonist than the stranger and Carver.
He became standard, uninteresting, and forced. He's not the worst villain I've seen, but it feels like a missed opportunity by Telltale and it's probably because the episode was an hour long and we didn't have any interesting character development.
The stranger was so weird and creepy and unique the first time I played it. I was seriously picking my dialogue carefully. He had such a sad monotone sinister voice also.
He became standard, uninteresting, and forced. He's not the worst villain I've seen, but it feels like a missed opportunity by Telltale and it's probably because the episode was an hour long and we didn't have any interesting character development.
When he started talking about "only the strong survive and we should get rid of the weak." which is basically a theme that was already dealt with in S1 episode 4 which seemed a bit cliche and well the bulletined list I set up in a previous comment sort of explains my feelings, he had potential, but the execution ended up being disappointing, in my opinion.
Agreed. Both Carver and Stranger's voice actors were perfectly cast. Stranger's Ep. 5 voice, that is. The voice he had on the walkie-talkie in Episode 3 was ridiculous.
The stranger was so weird and creepy and unique the first time I played it. I was seriously picking my dialogue carefully. He had such a sad monotone sinister voice also.
I felt the stranger was better
In every episode he was there and his presence gets bigger and bigger. Sure Carver had built up but I felt it got wasted and he missed out on the 2 big episodes.
SPOILERRR ALERTTT
Stranger
Ep 1 - Drives by you in the cop car
Ep 2 - You can steal form him
Ep 3 - You hear him
Ep 4 - He has clementine
Ep 5 - You meet him
Carver
Ep 1 - You hear about him
Ep 2 - You meet him
Ep 3 - You talk with him
Ep 4 - Likely only to be mentioned
Ep 5 - Likely gonna get his name mentioned once
The stranger felt alot more creepy, as you didnt even know his name yet he caused Lees death in a way
Comments
Stranger.
Carver had the potential of being better but he didn't get enough time + Strangers background was better constructed.
You knew some guy was talking to Clem, didn't know who it was and in term a choice in episode 2 could impact the meeting with the guy.
Carver's background was that he had a connection with Rebecca and her baby (at this stage) and tried to live in "his world" which we've seen plenty of times and in the end fails, i.e St Johns, Crawford, The train station, etc.
Depends in your definition of "villain".
The Stranger. He was actually interesting and better written.
Carver, the stranger was really boring and IMO the worst part of season 1.
I actually hated Carver and wanted to see him dead, the stranger was just stupid the moment he started talking.
Plus the stranger fails to make a compelling argument for why he should look after Clem if you played like a good person (Like not killing people etc.) and the whole scene falls flat.
Carver. Can't really call him a charmer, but he had that charisma to pull people to him and build a community; and had a cold/ruthless side when crossed/opposed (side note... wonder if he would have just let the cabin group go if Rebecca hadn't been a part of them; since all he seemed to really want was her/the baby back in his camp).
the stranger seemed to me like (to quote the cop from the opening scene in 1-01) a "fussy baby".... wah, you stole my stuff that I left unattended and out in the open during the ZA, so I blame you for everything that happened after that; so now I'm going to take your little girl (since I obviously couldn't care for/provide for my own family). If you're going to just leave your food/water/etc sitting in a car with no one around (keys still in the ignition and the door open), do you really expect that if some other desperate people come along they aren't going to take it? (not to mention, do you really expect to survive that long in the ZA if you don't protect your food/water supply). I could have done without his part entirely, and just had Vernon kidnap Clem to try and get away with her and the boat.
I was just talking about this yesterday, in another thread.
If we're going by sheer brutality and intimidation, then of course the winner is Carver. FFS he's voiced by Michael Madsen, of course he's going to be intimidating. The Stranger was a scrawny man with a '70s jacket and a Norman Bates haircut. Naturally, the guy isn't going to be as scary.
But there's no question that Stranger was better written than Carver. Stranger's story, like that of most people in the apocalypse, is marked by tragedy and loss. He feels immense guilt and responsibility for his family's demise, and he feels legitimate anger towards Lee's group for stealing his supplies. He's psychotic, and a bastard for taking Clementine, but he's still sympathetic.
Carver was just a bastard. I humbly disagree with Gavin996; I find Carver to be the boring villain, not Stranger. We never learn anything about Carver, other than he is probably the father of Rebecca's baby. We know that he is bloodthirsty and ruthless, but we never learn why, so we never really care. I hated him and wanted him dead, but that's about it. As soon as we got out of the complex, I completely forgot about him. He was a very shallow and two-dimensional villain. I'd like someone to convince me otherwise.
I'd say the Stranger. Carver was just your everyday Walking Dead villian.
I agree with this. Carver could have been an amazing villain. Telltale somewhat rushed his story, I feel, and he never really got the chance to develop into the great antagonist that he could have been.
So perhaps it's unfair to compare him to Stranger. I didn't consider this when I made my first post below. Maybe Carver isn't the main villain of the Season, we still have two more episodes after all.
Stranger. Carver had potential to be an interesting gray type of antagonist, but instead we get a lame, 100% evil nut job, who's a bit two dimensional and flat.
He lost his family and that drove him mad, so he wanted to start over with Clementine and that meant getting rid of Lee.
It just wasn't convincing.
Him going crazy is a really stupid reason to go after Lee and Clem.
It was pretty stupid of the stranger to leave his car running like that, granted he probably thought they weren't going to be gone for long or who knows maybe they JUST left. He took Clementine because he lost his old family and wants to redeem himself sort of mirroring how Lee is redeeming himself with taking care of Clementine, he was more interesting and sympathetic than Carver who was like any other zombie apocalypse villain.
I agree. The Stranger was far, far better written and to be quite honest still gives me the creeps when I play that end scene. Carver though, was a waste. We knew nothing of his background, his personality or his reasons for doing what he did. That's the difference. Yes we got some snippets here and there, but he wasn't what I call a real threat. All it took was a bit of planning, a shot to the knees and a crowbar. Bye bye Carver.
Whereas Mr Stranger was cunning, manipulative and resourceful.
Either way, you leave all of your stuff unattended in the ZA and then get obsessively mad because it was taken / the ramifications that follow. Doesn't work for me, but we all have our own view.... and like Gavin mentioned, if you play 100% honest/good Lee, don't touch the wagon supplies, be good to Clem throughout; his whole speech about why he'd be a better protector makes no sense at all (when he starts babbling about Lee putting Clem in danger, there should have been a response like: it's the freakin' apocalypse. The whole world is dangerous... besides, you couldn't even protect the family you HAD).
I agree Carver came/went too fast. They could have done a better job developing the character, but who knows what's planned for ep 4 & 5 (as long it doesn't end up being a stranger part 2: "You stole my can o' beans from the trash and killed my dog Clem, so I've been tracking you for 4 episodes to get my revenge").
He's obsessed with starting a new family, so perhaps he's possibly lying to himself, the stranger is a puzzle and that's why I find him more interesting.
He went after Clem because he thought he failed at being a father and a family man and wanted to redeem himself and start over with Clementine, that's way more sympathetic and interesting than " I'm evil and you should hate me" like Carver.
Yep, so this guy who took my food is to blame.
It's not him evil, it's just bad writing.
Stranger
Well yeah, I'm sure he also blames himself but like I said, redemption is his obsession, the way Telltale wrote Carver in Episode 3 was a bit sloppy and a little forced.
The stranger felt forced, because he is needed for the final episode to work.
I guess Carver is the same, but he felt more real I guess.
Carver....
No real sympathy, just a standard apocalypse villain you should hate who's not interesting.
Not really, Carver is crazy so he does shitty things like this.
The stranger is crazy the problem is he wasn't explored enough and it was executed terribly.
Carver.
Stranger was trying too hard. Even if your Lee was a saint he found the stupidest reasons to blame and accuse him of being a monster.
"Back at the drugstore that reporter girl asked you for help with batteries. And later at the dairy you MADE FUN of her for it! You vile monster!"
"Back at Clementine's house you said you'd like to have a cup of bourbon. Everyone knows Bourbon is the blood of the Devil. I'm not like you. I'd NEVER drink Bourbon! You evil creature incapable of raising a child!"
Carver is crazy because.......? The Stranger is crazy because he lost his only family and thought of himself as a monster and a failure as a dad. Carver, in my opinion, was executed sloppily.
He started out with a good community and just started to lose it, got obsessed over his own child (which might not be his anyway)
Everything Carver did he had a reason to do it, obviously he took things too far as he was the villain.
The stranger decides it's Lee's fault because he fucked up makes no sense, it was moronic.
"Everything Carver did he had a reason to do it." yeah in episode 2 where he was actually interesting, but not in episode 3 where all he was was just a standard crazy villain which is disappointing considering the first season had antagonist that had some dimension to them. I'm not saying the stranger is the best villain in S1, I just prefer him over Carver, I'd say the St. Johns were better antagonist than the stranger and Carver.
What did he do in episode 3 to change your mind?
He became standard, uninteresting, and forced. He's not the worst villain I've seen, but it feels like a missed opportunity by Telltale and it's probably because the episode was an hour long and we didn't have any interesting character development.
The stranger was so weird and creepy and unique the first time I played it. I was seriously picking my dialogue carefully. He had such a sad monotone sinister voice also.
Ok, but I mean what happened that made him worse?
When he started talking about "only the strong survive and we should get rid of the weak." which is basically a theme that was already dealt with in S1 episode 4 which seemed a bit cliche and well the bulletined list I set up in a previous comment sort of explains my feelings, he had potential, but the execution ended up being disappointing, in my opinion.
Agreed. Both Carver and Stranger's voice actors were perfectly cast. Stranger's Ep. 5 voice, that is. The voice he had on the walkie-talkie in Episode 3 was ridiculous.
Thanks for raping the downvote button instead of replying, now I need to pay for his therapy.
The Stranger. Saying why seems redundant, at this point, and I hate writing on a mobile phone.
I felt the stranger was better
In every episode he was there and his presence gets bigger and bigger. Sure Carver had built up but I felt it got wasted and he missed out on the 2 big episodes.
SPOILERRR ALERTTT
Stranger
Ep 1 - Drives by you in the cop car
Ep 2 - You can steal form him
Ep 3 - You hear him
Ep 4 - He has clementine
Ep 5 - You meet him
Carver
Ep 1 - You hear about him
Ep 2 - You meet him
Ep 3 - You talk with him
Ep 4 - Likely only to be mentioned
Ep 5 - Likely gonna get his name mentioned once
The stranger felt alot more creepy, as you didnt even know his name yet he caused Lees death in a way