Gun Control

So. Gun Control. The thing that America says doesn't work, and that it won't stop gun massacres. But I'm undecided on this. Because gun control CAN work. It worked here in Australia. After the mass shooting at Port Arthur (a small town and former convict settlement) that left 35 dead (including children) , the Prime Minister, John Howard, delivered gun control laws that saw around 700,000 automatic weapons bought back and destroyed. As a result, there has not been a single gun massacre here since 1996, and the crime rate involving guns has declined significantly. Now, you could say the same can't happen in America because it's such a different country, but the thing is that until Port Arthur, lot's of people had automatic weapons here too, and when John Howard wanted guns laws, people protested, just like America. But Port Arthur happened, and everyone realized: Guns serve no purpose but to kill.

So can America and other countries learn from this? Maybe, maybe not, but I'd suggest to America to at least take a look at the effect it's had here, because I know none of you want more mass shootings.

Anyone who wants to add anything is welcome to.

Comments

  • It's a complicated issue, especially for me since I'm a gun owner and leftist. My basic stance on gun control is as follows.

    ANTI - Assault Weapon Ban: It's a flawed law that targets weapons based on appearance/notoriety. For ex. the law bans the Tec-9 handgun because of its popularity among criminals.

    PRO - Rifle magazine limits.

    ANTI - pistol magazine limits.

    PRO - Universal background checks. Honest gun-owners have nothing to worry about.

    PRO - Concealed Carry (only with training)

    PRO - Smart Guns

    Basically gun culture is too ingrained in our society to get rid of semi-auto weapons. Still, there are steps that can be taken.

  • Like BigBlindMax said, the 2nd Amendment is ingrained into our collective souls, and they are plenty of people who rely on guns for protection and sustenance. When you live out in the middle of Nowhere, Kansas, there' no such thing as 911. You're on your own in the country, and guns are the best thing to protect yourself with.

    The two main reasons the 2nd Amendment exists is to have civilian militias (a must back then and still is today) and protection against overly tyrannical governments.

    As far as my personal beliefs, I believe that we need people to know how to use a gun, I'm anti-concealed carry, and I don't believe there should be limits to magazines.

  • If I may ask, why are you anti-CC?

    Like BigBlindMax said, the 2nd Amendment is ingrained into our collective souls, and they are plenty of people who rely on guns for protecti

  • It's hard to feel safe when a bunch of dudes are walking around carrying guns with them. Even if they'll use it for good, it's still hard to trust them.

    BigBlindMax posted: »

    If I may ask, why are you anti-CC?

  • BigBlindMaxBigBlindMax Banned
    edited July 2014

    You can trust meeee...since my CC handgun is collecting dust back home (I'm at college). It's crazy here in PA, all you need to get a license is like one day of training. I did about a week's worth of classes before I got mine, but that's mostly because I wanted an in-depth explanation of all the legal implications.

    As far as people carrying guns, it's pretty common where I live, so I guess I'm just used to it. Wielding a deadly weapon during the commission of a felony is an automatic 10 years in prison, so I trust most people not to draw their guns willy-nilly. ;)

    It's hard to feel safe when a bunch of dudes are walking around carrying guns with them. Even if they'll use it for good, it's still hard to trust them.

  • Ah. I didn't know that much, but yeah, I'm from the South, and I'm used to guns, but I guess I'm just paranoid.

    BigBlindMax posted: »

    You can trust meeee...since my CC handgun is collecting dust back home (I'm at college). It's crazy here in PA, all you need to get a licen

  • SO what you guys are saying is that guns are too deeply-ingrained in society to remove right away? What about just restricting them? Such as waiting periods and increased background checks etc

    Ah. I didn't know that much, but yeah, I'm from the South, and I'm used to guns, but I guess I'm just paranoid.

  • I personally think background checks are important. We don't need convicted criminals to be armed.

    But what do you mean waiting periods?

    SO what you guys are saying is that guns are too deeply-ingrained in society to remove right away? What about just restricting them? Such as waiting periods and increased background checks etc

  • Like when you don't get the gun immediately. I don't know that much, but for example, you buy a gun, and you have a criminal record. You buy the gun, but you have to wait for the store to check your backgrounds before you actually get it. You'll have to look into it yourself. I don't know much about them.

    I personally think background checks are important. We don't need convicted criminals to be armed. But what do you mean waiting periods?

  • Ok, that's logical enough. I'll be fine with that, but as long as they're quick and efficient about it.

    Like when you don't get the gun immediately. I don't know that much, but for example, you buy a gun, and you have a criminal record. You buy

  • Well like you aid earlier: We don't need people with criminal records arming themselves.
    So do you need a licence to own a gun where you live? Because i think guns are a state law so it varies across the country, and are convicted criminals legally allowed to own a gun? because you can't here, and automatic weapons have been banned since Port Arthur.

    Ok, that's logical enough. I'll be fine with that, but as long as they're quick and efficient about it.

  • Waiting periods and background checks are fine IMO. Buying a gun is a rather large investment, so I'm happy to take my time.

    Most of the anti-background check people are shitheads who are afraid of being put in a secret government database or something. Idiots.

    SO what you guys are saying is that guns are too deeply-ingrained in society to remove right away? What about just restricting them? Such as waiting periods and increased background checks etc

  • edited July 2014

    Yes, you have to be 18+ to own rifles and shotguns and 21+ to own guns in Mississippi.

    Well like you aid earlier: We don't need people with criminal records arming themselves. So do you need a licence to own a gun where you l

  • What about Handguns?

    Yes, you have to be 18+ to own rifles and shotguns and 21+ to own guns in Mississippi.

  • But do you still see automatic weapons as necessary?

    BigBlindMax posted: »

    Waiting periods and background checks are fine IMO. Buying a gun is a rather large investment, so I'm happy to take my time. Most of the

  • I see them as something that won't go away in my lifetime. Like I said, gun culture has been a part of American society since the beginning.

    But do you still see automatic weapons as necessary?

  • I meant handguns for 21+. Dumbass moment here.

    What about Handguns?

  • So you can get rifles at a younger age than you can get handguns? Okay, I gotta say WTF.

    I meant handguns for 21+. Dumbass moment here.

  • Handguns are concealable and have little to no hunting purpose. Rifles and shotguns put dinner on the table for a lot of people.

    So you can get rifles at a younger age than you can get handguns? Okay, I gotta say WTF.

  • What BigBlindMax says. Trust me, I know quite a few people who rely on hunting to subsist.

    So you can get rifles at a younger age than you can get handguns? Okay, I gotta say WTF.

  • And I can completely understand that. If someone needs a rifle to put food on the table for their family, and they have a licence to own a rifle, then it's their right. Here's something that may work, if you try to get a gun licences, you should get evaluated on whether or not it would be safe for others for you to have a gun. That way, the responsible adults will be the ones with guns.

    What BigBlindMax says. Trust me, I know quite a few people who rely on hunting to subsist.

  • Well, here in Finland, you have to get a permission to own a gun from the goverment. You have take a mental health test and everything before they can give you the permission to own a gun. But even if you get the permission, you can't still carry it with you in public places, like in america. You have to get an another permission to that and if you don't have it but you still carry a gun with you, you will be arrested and you have to pay a fine and the gun own permission will be taken away from you.. forever.

    I think it works pretty well, because there isn't lots of shootouts here and people kill each other or rob places with knives.

    Also, there has been only 2 school shootings in Finland's history...
  • Welcome back, @VinceOrKenny! Anyway, you present a lot of valid points here, but yeah, it won't exactly work well in America. Finnish ways =/= American ways. :/

    Well, here in Finland, you have to get a permission to own a gun from the goverment. You have take a mental health test and everything befor

  • Thanks buddy :D and yeah, you are right, Finland is a lot smaller than USA.

    Also, the populations; Finland: almost 6 billion
    USA: over 300 billion

    So many people in there already owns a gun, so Finnish kind of gun laws wouldn't work, the country is just too big :/

    Welcome back, @VinceOrKenny! Anyway, you present a lot of valid points here, but yeah, it won't exactly work well in America. Finnish ways =/= American ways. :/

  • Shit, I'm moving to FINLAND!

    Well, here in Finland, you have to get a permission to own a gun from the goverment. You have take a mental health test and everything befor

  • Yay!

    Shit, I'm moving to FINLAND!

  • Sorry to be a grammar Nazi, but it should be million.

    Anyway, yeah, it's true. A lot of things from Europe: democratic socialism, universal healthcare, stuff like that, they work in Europe because of the smaller population.

    Hopefully it could work better here, but between partisan asshats on both sides and our apathy toward politics, I don't know how well :/

    Thanks buddy :D and yeah, you are right, Finland is a lot smaller than USA. Also, the populations; Finland: almost 6 billion

  • Actually, you'd by surprised, it's more the lobbyists and the various industrial complexes (military, prison, medical) than politicians.

    Sorry to be a grammar Nazi, but it should be million. Anyway, yeah, it's true. A lot of things from Europe: democratic socialism, univers

  • I didn't think of those, but yeah, those greedy bastards and professional bribers should have no place in Washington.

    BigBlindMax posted: »

    Actually, you'd by surprised, it's more the lobbyists and the various industrial complexes (military, prison, medical) than politicians.

  • Jk, but I'd like to visit if I had the money, but any overseas trip is gonna be a few thousand bucks over here.

    Yay!

  • That's sort of amazing to me.

    In America, strict gun laws aren't as effective. Camden, New Jersey and Oakland, California are two of the most dangerous cities in America and both lie in states with very strict gun laws. No-Carry zones and magazine limits ring a bit hollow when shotguns, Mac-11's and AK's keep showing up in the crime reports.

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    The photos are anecdotal evidence, of course, but you get the idea. Gang members in Camden can get this kind of hardware past he radar. Yet my sister can't even carry pepper-spray or a stun gun when she passes through on her way to campus. It simply doesn't produce the desired results.

    The only real effective law I've seen implemented is the 10-20-Life law in Florida. 10 extra years for wielding a firearm while committing a felony, 20 extra years if you fire it, or a mandatory 25-Life if the bullet hits someone. Even so, that seems way too draconian to me.

    Well, here in Finland, you have to get a permission to own a gun from the goverment. You have take a mental health test and everything befor

  • So what you're saying is that it's not affecting the right people.

    BigBlindMax posted: »

    That's sort of amazing to me. In America, strict gun laws aren't as effective. Camden, New Jersey and Oakland, California are two of the

  • In some cases, yes.

    So what you're saying is that it's not affecting the right people.

  • Sometimes draconian is the only way that'll work

    BigBlindMax posted: »

    That's sort of amazing to me. In America, strict gun laws aren't as effective. Camden, New Jersey and Oakland, California are two of the

  • Very rarely. I'm opposed to minimum sentences in general, especially "three strikes laws". One of the good things about English Common Law is that it gives judges the flexibility to use their discretion. They sentence convicted felons based on both the historical precedent and their own judgement of the crime, rather than following strict, static guidelines.

    Sometimes draconian is the only way that'll work

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