Carver and Sarah *EP4 spoiler*
Honestly, everyone says they hate Carver, but if you start leaving people behind just because they're weaker or need more help than you, it doesn't make you much different than him. It will just prove his point that Clementine is just like him.
"I know you Clementine.We're the same. You just go with that feeling you got right know. It's what makes you stronger than them."
"Reggie was weak, and we can't have that anymore. You have to be able to contribute. He put us at risk with his incompetence. Killing one in order to save many is part of survival. It's one of the tough decisions weaker people couldn't make. That's why it falls to people like US to do it. They are weak, and we are strong. "
Just replace Reggie with Sarah and you got the argument most people use to justify killing Sarah [if not the weird "she's annoying" one]. At least if you're going to kill her, don't be an hypocrite and just say that you agree with Carver and Crawford.
Comments
Seriously though, when it comes to this shit, there's no excusing things. YOU ARE LIKE CARVER OR YOU'RE NOT. END OF STORY.
Yep, damn straight. I knew right when I saw Sarah we had no choice. Only the strong survive in TWD and in real life!
The Reggie-Sarah situations can't be compared really. Carver straight up murdered Reggie. Choosing to give up on Sarah and worry about your own survival and the survival of others is not the same thing as murdering her.
You could argue that giving up on Sarah is a bad thing to do, but it does not make you like cold-blooded murder like Carver.
In real life?
Hehehe you must not know what Social Security or government welfare is.
Yeah but if you are weak you are gonna get picked on.
But is Jane going around killing people because she thinks that they are liabilities? No. She simiply wants to get away from the liabilities. There is a big difference.
I'll assume you made an error, or you made a jab on Jane's unoriginality, but Molly hated Crawford and Carvers' ideology. Survival of the fittest killed her sister.
So, am I like Caver for for watching die. but I chose to save Sarah twice(The way she died was horrific) So doesn't make me like him right?
I saved Sarah and then Told Jane to save her later. She was flawed, But i couldn't leave her to die without trying to help. I was sad when she died.
What do you mean? Watching Kenny beat him is hardly the same as leaving Sarah.
Being picked on doesn't mean shit unless you make it, though, so...
My question doesn't make sense when I think about it, so never mind and sorry for confusing you.
I hated Carver! I saved Sarah in that room as well and told Jane to help Sarah but Jane could not save her alone, There should of been a third option to help Jane save Sarah.
I tried to save everyone, But still they died
If you pay attention to the lyrics at the credits of EP4, it kind of sounds like it was Sarah singing it to Clem. The ending songs usually have some meaning relevant to the plot.
"I felt like you cared" - How she felt Clem was the only one who cared about her in the end. "They were going to leave me, weren't they? Why didn't you leave me?..."
"I was so green
nothing could touch me" - How she was so sheltered and thought that nothing could harm her as long as her dad was around
"I'm not saying that
I wanna go"- How even though she's unable to move when she's panicking, it doesn't mean she wants to "go", to die, like Jane said Jaime wanted to.
"the falling leaf that never tries
to hold on to what
keeps it alive" - How even though Luke and Nick were trying their best to save her, it didn't seem like she was trying to let them save her
"the sudden ease when you arrive
it's you
that makes me try" - How her friend Clem was the only one who was able to make her feel at ease and convince her to try to live. "You have to try, Sarah!"
Never gets old
I left her because she is that kind of person who always want the others to beg her to do shit. She wants everyone to keep begging 19 hours for her to leave and fucking survive. There's a lot of persons like that in real life, and I also hate them, so, no mercy for Sarah.
Exactly. We easily could have saved her if that option was there. I mean, there weren't too many actually near Sarah and we had guns. But nooo, Telltale doesn't want a determinate character.
There are degrees of severity. I wouldn't go as far as saying we're exactly like Carver, but we can be very much like him. Reggie was killed in a very "safe" place while Sarah's situation was WAY different. That was a life or death situation and sometimes trying to save one can cause the death of everyone.
Carver has what might be the right idea for survival in this world but the wrong execution. And it's pretty obvious that many of his "people" were scared of him / did not agree with his methods. That's what happens when all of the power rests in the hands of one person. He basically made his little kingdom and played King for a while. Only he alone got to decide who was useful and who wasn't and those he deemed weren't he killed or had killed. Reggie really didn't do anything that warranted that type of punishment but Carver got to make the rules.
Choosing to leave Sarah in the trailer while a dozen walkers are literally 2 feet away and ready to kill the both of you isn't the same as getting pissed off at a one-armed guy and throwing him off a perfectly good, safe roof. Reggie was still able to contribute to the group in many ways despite his handicap- he just pissed Carver off and Carver decided he DESERVED to die. That's a big difference. Leaving Sarah and saving yourself is not deciding she DESERVES to die- it's saving your own ass because no good will come of it if you both just sit there and get devoured. At a certain point people have to help themselves as well and trying to convince someone to have the will to live is incredibly difficult. Just ask Jane.
There may be a difference of scale but not different when it comes to Carver's Words.
Despite the roof being a safe place, Carver's group was bigger and his base a tad bit more secure but you remember the situation. EPISODE 3 The HERD was coming. There was Zombies banging on the wall every night.
Sarah's predicament may be on a smaller scale but ultimately it's the same. Her dying in the balcony and her dying in the trailer was "She is a liability, she won't survive"
"Reggie is a liability. he won't survive."
Giving up on their potential and their shortcomings for survival for the bettering of your group is still cruel especially when you know they are afraid. Sarah didn't Give up. Sarah was afraid and confused and depressed but she was screaming for help. She was screaming for her father who she in her panic and disillusion may come back.
and when she falls off the balcony she screams for someone to help her. you still condemned another to death.
Well that could've been the case with clementine in the start of season 1. With proper training with Sarah, and a little time, she would've been useful. Don't blame her for her break down, blame Carlos.
Yeah but see the difference is Reggie was in a safe situation. Carver DECIDED he DESERVED to be killed right then and there because it may help people later on. Which is ridiculous. Even with one arm he can hold a pair of binoculars and stand watch. He can hold a handgun and shoot. He can still contribute. Not under attack, in a relatively safe place Carver decided he got to choose who lives and who dies so he THREW Reggie off the roof.
In the trailer- Clem has to make a choice whether to leave Sarah and save herself or to try to help Sarah which COULD have wound up getting them BOTH killed. The fact that we know you can save both is just hindsight being 20-20. In a real life scenario there's no guarantee Clem will get through to Sarah and they'll both live. They easily could have both died right then and there and in real life there's no reset button like there is in the game.
The deck is a little bit of a different situation but still- Sarah FELL off when the deck collapsed. Clem didn't DECIDE that she DESERVED to die and threw her down there- THAT would make her no different than Carver. The fact also remains that Clem can try to help but ultimately it doesn't matter- Sarah dies anyway but not because Clem or anyone else decided it was better that way.
Carver does have the right idea- only the strong survive and if you're going to be in a group you need strong people with a will to live who can contribute. No argument there. But being the judge, jury, and executioner for everyone is going beyond that.
Reggie sealed his fate when he helped the group escape, the group which (possibly) had the mother of his child. Once he knew his role in the situation, Carver was waiting for the right moment to remove the "weakness" in his community...and to use him as a lesson. This was probably all of the justification Carver needed.
In that kind of world though, the only thing that really matters is principle. So although Clementine didn't straight up kill Sarah, leaving her to die was something Carver would've done. And that's where similarities are drawn.
I blame everyone who didn't even try to contribute aid for Sarah. She was a goner the moment her dad died, no one else gave a shit about her.
first How dare you compare clementine to that murderer
second as much as i hate to admit it carver wasnt wrong,the strong live the weak die,sarah was weak(not because of her supposedly crippling disability)she did nothing to help,she did nothing,at least reggie worked to live
But the same can be said about Clementine on a smaller scale. Clementine doesn't have the same INFLUENCE or CONTROL as carver but still can be the deciding factor of these character's lives.
Sarah and Clementine are essentially Clementine and Lee in Season 1.
And if you think about the extent Lee went to to protect Clementine and raising her: it's the same. The only difference though is in this final chapter at her death, what was she more like? Lee or Carver?
In her detriment scene in the Trailer it was a very Lee like move to save her. But in the final one?
Clementine barely protected her. She could have thrown a gun down. She could have tried and convince them and not just jane to save her. She quite literally looked out for herself or for jane (because of jane's usefulness) which is a very Carver-esque decision rather than a Lee one. It may be a "can't save everyone moment" but it's a load of bull to say they couldn't save her because Clementine has been in worse and narrower situations throughout S2 By herself than this where she has Bonnie, Luke, Mike AND Jane who are all capable along with herself to fend the zombies off long enough to save Sarah.
But details aside, what about her reaction. She barely mourned Sarah at all. Heck one of the responses was extremely Carver-esque, that she was doomed anyway. That didn't sound at all what Lee would say.
I feel like they should've had at least one determinant character from Season 1 make it. :c imo
The feels ;-;
Sarah's dad died and she seems to have an anxiety disorder, besides... when has she begged to do anything?
That sounds an awful lot like victim blaming.
I didn't hate Carver, he was one of my favorite characters of the season.
You're missing the point that Carver WAS crazy.. The Reggie-Sarah situation was different, BUT it's all about the idea of killing the weak ones in order to survive. So it was a painful decision for me. I ended up saying NO i'm not gonna be the next Carver and saved Sarah. What Jane said was also complete bullshit. Sarah wanted to live, she was just broken which is understandable. Clementine had the right person and time to learn how to survive, yet Sarah didn't have..
Watching her die at the deck.. nobody saved her and no one cared, at least we should have an option to jump down or just shoot her (instead of being torn apart by friggin zombies). Poor girl, i didn't really liked her, but i promised to look after her and she was a friend. And we don't leave friends behind!
You are damn right, leaving Sarah because she is considered like a liability is proving that Carver was totally right about some Clems.
Sarah is a retard. She wasnt going to make it at all... no matter what (Even if you did save her she would have died anyway)
Carver killed Reggie even though it really wasnt his fault. It was Sarah and Clementines + Reggie wouldnt make me do anything so
Lets be honest Jane is right. Its easier to survive on your own.
Nothing like Carver... Carver kills them Recklessly.
Does Chopping Saritas arm off help anybody? No. She would have died anyway. She killed herself by not being good at walking through hordes
(Clementine as a kid did it better then her)
I shot Rebecca in the face why? Because everybody was fighting and Clem was the only one who saw her as a walker. Somebody would have been bit (most likely)
Nothing like Carver. I actually forgive people if they have a reason.. Carver just kills them cause nothing went his way
Havent seen one reason Clem was like carver at all
Why do people think sarah's "annoying"?
Be Quiet Sarah (OOHHH A RED BUTTON LOOK AT THAT OMG ZOMBIE HELP)
Well if she was going to be anything like Nick, Then i'm glad it wasnt an option.