No, what he said was too far. What Kenny said had the potential to turn Clem into a suicidal wreck and was completely uncalled for. He put the entire blame on her shoulders which was reckless, inconsiderate and just plain stupid. Yes, he lost someone but he should know not to take out his pain on innocent people, especially a child
He murdered an innocent member of the group and didn't show any remorse, of course it's fair to hold it against him. But that wasn't even my point, I was just pointing out that what he said was applicable to him in the first season and how hypocritical he's being.
Because Clem wasn't a train wreck after having her girlfriend Sarita killed before her eyes. Sarita's death might not magically go away, but… more kenny's outburst sure as hell can. I forgot all about it.
And how is it fair to hold against him something that he did years ago? Is it really right to keep bringing up the meat locker every single time Kenny accuses someone of getting someone killed? As if all conversations are supposed to be like this.
Kenny: You killed Walt you son of a-
Carver: Meetlocker.
Kenny: Ooops, sorry kind sir, I forgot.
Kenny: You got Sarita killed, you can't escape responsibility just because you're a little girl-
Clem: Meetlocker.
Kenny: Oh no, my apologies, me bad man.
That's good to know. I felt genuinely betrayed by Kenny, considering I merely killed the walker that bit her. If he said that shit to Lee I would just shrug and roll my eyes, but you don't berate a little girl like that. I don't need an apology, but Clementine could sure use one, just so she knows uncle Ken still loves her. The last thing anyone needs in a zombie apocalypse is for their friends to start turning on them. Either way, I forgive the prick.
Clem is the closest thing to family Kenny has now.. They have known each other and been through a lot together. Kenny doesn't know any of these people except Clem, Thats why he took it out on her and used her as a punching bag to flush out his emotions.. because she's the only one who he knows he can do it to and she will still not hold it against him.. Its like a family thing with Kenny.. You wanna be my friend? Well you have to cop some of my shit sometimes..
You're exaggerating, he was harsh, and he was wrong, and his claims wrong. But for crying out loud, it was a human reaction in a moment of rage and grief which he fixes given the time to recover himself.
"of course it's fair to hold it against him", For so long? so that's it? that one action he did automatically means that this man is beyond hope and irrecoverable and unforgivable, that he is to be damned til the ends of time regardless of what he does afterwards? So regardless of how Lilly is or what she's doing, when/if clem see's her, she's supposed to constantly mention and bash onto her how she killed Carley/Tried to kill Ben?
The hypocrisy argument doesn't even work either for the same reason. He's a hypocrite for calling out someone after he did something 2 years ago? To hell with what he's currently doing. That's like calling a former cigarette smoker a hypocrite for telling us that smoking is bad.
No, what he said was too far. What Kenny said had the potential to turn Clem into a suicidal wreck and was completely uncalled for. He put t… morehe entire blame on her shoulders which was reckless, inconsiderate and just plain stupid. Yes, he lost someone but he should know not to take out his pain on innocent people, especially a child
He murdered an innocent member of the group and didn't show any remorse, of course it's fair to hold it against him. But that wasn't even my point, I was just pointing out that what he said was applicable to him in the first season and how hypocritical he's being.
Thats kind of childish dont you think? Wa! he didn't say sowwy im going to hold grudges... Kenny's character is hard to understand for some.. he didn't mean it..
Yes, it was an understandable human reaction, but NOT a justifiable one. Frankly, Kenny was being incredibly childish there, and to tell you the truth, I wouldn’t be so hard on him if this was the first time this happened. Except we know from experience what kind of man Kenny is; a self-absorbed, myopic brat who simply can’t accept the reality that maybe, just maybe, he did something wrong. He’s someone who just refuses to ever accept responsibility for his own actions, and pushes the entirety of the blame on other people to make himself feel better at their expense. People don't dislike him for this one action, this is a regular thing with Kenny.
Remember Ben? He holds him entirely accountable for Duck and Katjaa’s deaths, making Ben into a self-loathing, suicidal mess.
Duck, Katjaa, Brie, Walter, Alvin, Carlos, Nick, Sarah, Sarita… Kenny is partly to blame for all of their deaths, just as he holds Clem accountable for Sarita’s death, yet he never faces up to his own mistakes. That is why he’s a hypocrite. He sees it fit to pile the blame on others so he doesn’t have to feel bad, while completely refusing to even consider the notion that he’s to blame as well.
Rebecca? She gets angry at Kenny for getting Alvin killed, but she’s enough of an adult to realize that rubbing that incident in Kenny’s face at every opportunity isn’t the way to handle things.
Kenny? He hypocritically blows up at Clem, and in most scenarios, he never ever apologizes for his unwarranted outburst and pretends things are perfectly fine between him and Clem. He acts as though he hasn’t just verbally assaulted a little girl he supposedly cares about, and never owns up to his mistake.
Remember the Kenny who felt genuine remorse for leaving Shawn and actually admits he was in the wrong in that situation? That was the last we ever saw of the Kenny that was truly a good man. And even then, if you try to save Larry, he throws Shawn back at your face, too. “Don’t worry. You turned out like a hero in [Duck’s] eyes.”
You're exaggerating, he was harsh, and he was wrong, and his claims wrong. But for crying out loud, it was a human reaction in a moment of r… moreage and grief which he fixes given the time to recover himself.
"of course it's fair to hold it against him", For so long? so that's it? that one action he did automatically means that this man is beyond hope and irrecoverable and unforgivable, that he is to be damned til the ends of time regardless of what he does afterwards? So regardless of how Lilly is or what she's doing, when/if clem see's her, she's supposed to constantly mention and bash onto her how she killed Carley/Tried to kill Ben?
The hypocrisy argument doesn't even work either for the same reason. He's a hypocrite for calling out someone after he did something 2 years ago? To hell with what he's currently doing. That's like calling a former cigarette smoker a hypocrite for telling us that smoking is bad.
Kenny always comes through! He had a right to be mad at Clem, he did go a little far, but we've all gone a little far to prove points to people we love. This is an instance in Clem being the only person Kenny can confide in, and it spilling over and him not meaning it. Kenny will get it together, he just needed to blow off some steam.
You speak as if Kenny has never owned up or made up to any of his mistakes, The Ben mistake? He forgives Ben and mercy kills him after attempting to save him. Almost getting himself killed as well.
Duck and Katjaa died because of The bandits, Ben and the zombie that bit duck, not because of Kenny.
He went silent and felt bad upon Carlos accusing Kenny of how his action led to Walt's death.(before bouncing back when Carlos continued)
How did Kenny cause Alvin,Carlos,Nick,Sarah and Sarita's deaths? I am seriously lost on this one.
Rubbing the incident at every opportunity, are you kidding me?? He lectures Clementine only when she arrives with Rebecca and Jane. And he doesn't apologize? He does apologize, especially if you're not an ass to him. I have no idea how being an ass to him is a way to get or expect or warrant an apology. And he does/has already owned up to it, in ways much bigger than saying words. He's always been there to help(except maybe during his 2 minutes of grief) more often than almost anyone else in the entire cast and put himself in the line when it counts more often as well, and he almost got himself killed to save clementine from Carver. But to hell with that, all we care about is that the word sorry comes out of his mouth, right? Cause according to you, a guy's sorry when he says it and not when he acts like it.
"who simply can’t accept the reality that maybe, just maybe, he did something wrong." It's really funny hearing you describe him like that in a thread that shows kenny apologized. I mean holy cow man, the color is green right in front of you yet you call it blue.
Yes, it was an understandable human reaction, but NOT a justifiable one. Frankly, Kenny was being incredibly childish there, and to tell you… more the truth, I wouldn’t be so hard on him if this was the first time this happened. Except we know from experience what kind of man Kenny is; a self-absorbed, myopic brat who simply can’t accept the reality that maybe, just maybe, he did something wrong. He’s someone who just refuses to ever accept responsibility for his own actions, and pushes the entirety of the blame on other people to make himself feel better at their expense. People don't dislike him for this one action, this is a regular thing with Kenny.
Remember Ben? He holds him entirely accountable for Duck and Katjaa’s deaths, making Ben into a self-loathing, suicidal mess.
Duck, Katjaa, Brie, Walter, Alvin, Carlos, Nick, Sarah, Sarita… Kenny is partly to blame for all of their deaths, just as he holds Clem accountable for Sarita’s death, … [view original content]
Man... fuck Kenny. Did you see Clementine's face when he was yelling at her? How could he not know that saying things like that hits hard. Especially for an eleven year old girl that was just trying to keep his loved ones alive.
Kenny really makes my skin crawl, he's such a hypocrite. Drumming up the pathetic "victim card," like he's the only person who's been through shit.
Wow, nice. I got kenny to say something nice too, although the complete opposite of "You're just a kid"
Clementine: I need you kenny.
Kenny: Heh, need me? You're more capable than three adults put together. But thanks I guess.
And even in the instance of him not apologizing, I don't understand why people are so upset about his outburst. It was unfair for him to bla… moreme Clem, but it shouldn't be so difficult to understand why he said what he said.
An apology would be nice, but I honestly don't need one, considering how he treats Clem for the rest of the episode.
You speak as if Kenny has never owned up or made up to any of his mistakes, The Ben mistake? He forgives Ben and mercy kills him after attempting to save him. Almost getting himself killed as well.
A completely determinate scene. And even in the scene he mercy kills Ben, Kenny was in the wrong. It’s great that he wanted to help the kid, but why the hell did he lock himself down in the alley when he knew Clementine was still out there to save? “You and Clem are my family?” Then what the fuck are you doing in that alley, Ken?
Duck and Katjaa died because of The bandits, Ben and the zombie that bit duck, not because of Kenny.
Kenny is partly responsible because he did nothing to protect his family during the raid. For a self-confessed family man, Kenny didn’t seem all that concerned about his wife and child as he made a dash to the RV without even looking back, leaving Lee to, once again, take care of his family. And what does he do when Katjaa is clearly in need of his emotional support? “Get on the train, Kat!”
He went silent and felt bad upon Carlos accusing Kenny of how his action led to Walt's death.(before bouncing back when Carlos continued)
Oh, good for Kenny. He felt bad. I’m sure Walter really appreciates that.
How did Kenny cause Alvin,Carlos,Nick,Sarah and Sarita's deaths? I am seriously lost on this one.
I never said Kenny caused their deaths, but he sure as hell was greatly involved. His recklessness during the hostage situation can get Alvin killed, just like Walter. He wasted everyone’s time by taking ages to kill Carver, even after everyone kept telling him that they didn’t have time for his “revenge” bullshit and to just shoot him, leading to the group getting caught by Troy, wasting even more time. If not for Kenny’s stupidity, the group would have been long gone before Tavia showed up and shot everyone.
Rubbing the incident at every opportunity, are you kidding me?? He lectures Clementine only when she arrives with Rebecca and Jane. And he doesn't apologize? He does apologize, especially if you're not an ass to him. I have no idea how being an ass to him is a way to get or expect or warrant an apology. And he does/has already owned up to it, in ways much bigger than saying words. He's always been there to help(except maybe during his 2 minutes of grief) more often than almost anyone else in the entire cast and put himself in the line when it counts more often as well, and he almost got himself killed to save clementine from Carver. But to hell with that, all we care about is that the word sorry comes out of his mouth, right? Cause according to you, a guy's sorry when he says it and not when he acts like it.
It’s not just this incident that I’m talking about. Remember Larry? Kenny never lets Lee hear the light of day if he tried to save him. Ben? Never let’s Lee hear the end of it if he saves the kid. “Oh, you should’ve murdered him, Lee! I’m super mad that you didn’t murder this teenager!” This is a regular thing with the guy. And you’re right, a guy is sorry when he acts like it, which is not what Kenny does. He blows up at Clem (even when she didn’t cut off Sarita’s hand), and he never apologizes (except in one very short, easily missed, completely optional scene) and then he acts like he hasn’t just nearly traumatized a little girl he claims to care about. He doesn’t act sorry, he acts like he never did anything wrong in the first place. Big difference.
And it’s incredible how people keep downplaying Kenny’s outburst. Oh, he was just in grief for about 2 minutes. That’s it? How about, shoving the entirety of the guilt on a little girl because he can’t accept that he was more to blame for the escape going to hell than pretty much everyone else in the group? Remember how Clem already feels guilty for getting Lee and Omid killed? She doesn’t need anymore guilt from Kenny, especially since she clearly doesn’t deserve the blame this time.
"who simply can’t accept the reality that maybe, just maybe, he did something wrong." It's really funny hearing you describe him like that in a thread that shows kenny apologized. I mean holy cow man, the color is green right in front of you yet you call it blue.
Once again, a belated apology that is extremely easy to miss and completely optional.
And you know what's the worst? For all Kenny's talk about how he loves his family, and how he'd do anything to protect them, he's incredibly hypocritical. If Sarita escapes the herd, she begs Kenny to end her suffering. He refuses and condemns her to a slow, painful death because he's too caught up in his selfish, insane hope that she won't turn. I understand that the guy really wants his girl to live, but if Kenny had truly cared about Sarita, he would've put such selfish hopes aside and faced reality to give her the release she wanted. Kenny was a coward in this situation. A blind, selfish coward. And Sarita suffered because of it. My respect for Kenny just keeps declining with each episode.
You speak as if Kenny has never owned up or made up to any of his mistakes, The Ben mistake? He forgives Ben and mercy kills him after attem… morepting to save him. Almost getting himself killed as well.
Duck and Katjaa died because of The bandits, Ben and the zombie that bit duck, not because of Kenny.
He went silent and felt bad upon Carlos accusing Kenny of how his action led to Walt's death.(before bouncing back when Carlos continued)
How did Kenny cause Alvin,Carlos,Nick,Sarah and Sarita's deaths? I am seriously lost on this one.
Rubbing the incident at every opportunity, are you kidding me?? He lectures Clementine only when she arrives with Rebecca and Jane. And he doesn't apologize? He does apologize, especially if you're not an ass to him. I have no idea how being an ass to him is a way to get or expect or warrant an apology. And he does/has already owned up to it, in ways much bigger than saying words. He's always been there to… [view original content]
A completely determinate scene. And even in the scene he mercy kills Ben, Kenny was in the wrong. It’s great that he wanted to help the kid, but why the hell did he lock himself down in the alley when he knew Clementine was still out there to save? “You and Clem are my family?” Then what the fuck are you doing in that alley, Ken?
A mistake of stupidity, not a mistake of selfishness. And said mistake didn't lead to anyone's death, as for the "a detrimental scene" argument, what is that supposed to mean? that kenny should hug and make up with Ben even when in the situation where Ben dies an episode beforehand?
Kenny is partly responsible because he did nothing to protect his family during the raid. For a self-confessed family man, Kenny didn’t seem all that concerned about his wife and child as he made a dash to the RV without even looking back, leaving Lee to, once again, take care of his family. And what does he do when Katjaa is clearly in need of his emotional support? “Get on the train, Kat!”
Kenny was preparing the RV for their escape since he was the only one working on the RV in the first place. Or would you've rather the bandits and walkers keep closing in on everyone and killing them? Katjaa and Duck included.
Oh, good for Kenny. He felt bad. I’m sure Walter really appreciates that.
Well, your argument was that kenny's a selfish brat that never admits or feels for his mistakes, well that argument is moot.
I never said Kenny caused their deaths, but he sure as hell was greatly involved. His recklessness during the hostage situation can get Alvin killed, just like Walter. He wasted everyone’s time by taking ages to kill Carver, even after everyone kept telling him that they didn’t have time for his “revenge” bullshit and to just shoot him, leading to the group getting caught by Troy, wasting even more time. If not for Kenny’s stupidity, the group would have been long gone before Tavia showed up and shot everyone.
"Everyone kept telling him"? How you rewatch the episode before you go on a random typing spree on your keyboard. And Tavia and everyone else had already reached the roof even before Clementine attacked Carver, the shots that hit Carlos and Nick were completely accidental stray unlucky bullets unless you want to blame kenny of the butterfly effect too.
And when you're with him, you can convince him not to do the Alvin mistake, so what's with the "He never listens to anyone and insists that he's always right" treatment?
It’s not just this incident that I’m talking about. Remember Larry? Kenny never lets Lee hear the light of day if he tried to save him.
He made up with him pretty quickly in the early stages of episode 3, and forgives and forgets Lee's post-apocalypse crime.
Ben? Never let’s Lee hear the end of it if he saves the kid.
Never let's Lee hear the end of it? It's one line, I can't tell if you're being serious or not. If he was really like that, then he wouldn't have come with me to episode 5
“Oh, you should’ve murdered him, Lee! I’m super mad that you didn’t murder this teenager!” This is a regular thing with the guy. And you’re right, a guy is sorry when he acts like it, which is not what Kenny does.
What about all the instances in which he did? When he concedes he's wrong and kills duck himself? When he talks about his reaction to Lee's Larry decision? When he goes down to try to save Ben? When he says that he could've done more and could've been a better Husband, Father and Friend. But no, no. According to you, this man Kenneth never feels sorry, because these events never happened.
He blows up at Clem (even when she didn’t cut off Sarita’s hand), and he never apologizes (except in one very short, easily missed, completely optional scene) and then he acts like he hasn’t just nearly traumatized a little girl he claims to care about. He doesn’t act sorry, he acts like he never did anything wrong in the first place. Big difference.
Let me ask you this, was it really so hard to get him to apologize? Did we have to say some tongue twisting words and vocal song lyrics to convince him to apologize? He hasn't traumatized, or even nearly traumatized Clementine, you're greatly exaggerating. "He acts like he never did anything wrong"? In the very scene or he wishes he died and says that he's of help to no one?
And it’s incredible how people keep downplaying Kenny’s outburst. Oh, he was just in grief for about 2 minutes. That’s it? How about, shoving the entirety of the guilt on a little girl because he can’t accept that he was more to blame for the escape going to hell than pretty much everyone else in the group? Remember how Clem already feels guilty for getting Lee and Omid killed? She doesn’t need anymore guilt from Kenny, especially since she clearly doesn’t deserve the blame this time.
He wasn't to blame for the escape going to hell for the reasons I've said. And well, like I said before, it was not only a human mistake which you did say was understandable, but also one that he made up for. Plus I'd rather a guy who'd protect me and scream at me(even if wrongfully) than one who sugar talks me but leaves me for dead when the going gets hard.
Once again, a belated apology that is extremely easy to miss and completely optional.
I ask yet once again, are you seriously suggesting that acting like an ass to him is the proper way to get an apology or help or consideration out of him?
And you know what's the worst? For all Kenny's talk about how he loves his family, and how he'd do anything to protect them, he's incredibly hypocritical. If Sarita escapes the herd, she begs Kenny to end her suffering. He refuses and condemns her to a slow, painful death because he's too caught up in his selfish, insane hope that she won't turn. I understand that the guy really wants his girl to live, but if Kenny had truly cared about Sarita, he would've put such selfish hopes aside and faced reality to give her the release she wanted. Kenny was a coward in this situation. A blind, selfish coward. And Sarita suffered because of it. My respect for Kenny just keeps declining with each episode.
Kenny was too stupid and sad to know what was best for her. It's not selfish thinking, if it was, he wouldn't have talked about how much of a useless burden he is.(which he isn't)
You speak as if Kenny has never owned up or made up to any of his mistakes, The Ben mistake? He forgives Ben and mercy kills him after attem… morepting to save him. Almost getting himself killed as well.
A completely determinate scene. And even in the scene he mercy kills Ben, Kenny was in the wrong. It’s great that he wanted to help the kid, but why the hell did he lock himself down in the alley when he knew Clementine was still out there to save? “You and Clem are my family?” Then what the fuck are you doing in that alley, Ken?
Duck and Katjaa died because of The bandits, Ben and the zombie that bit duck, not because of Kenny.
Kenny is partly responsible because he did nothing to protect his family during the raid. For a self-confessed family man, Kenny didn’t seem all that concerned about his wife and child as he made a dash to the RV without even looking back, leaving Lee to, once again, take care of his family. And wha… [view original content]
Clem answer to Kenny after "apologizes": You think because you're Kenny you can just get me hurt and no one who will care? That because you're "sorry" it'll all magicaly go away? That's not how it works!
So fuck this "apologizes" Kenny! Clem has enough problem...
Clem answer to Kenny after "apologizes": You think because you're Kenny you can just get me hurt and no one who will care? That because you'… morere "sorry" it'll all magicaly go away? That's not how it works!
So fuck this "apologizes" Kenny! Clem has enough problem...
Props to Gavin Hammon for such voicing an amazing and very difficult character.
I am not going to hold Kenny for his overall emotional dilemma, losing Sarita like that was brutal. Its understandable that he would hold Clementine responsible if she were to cut off Sarita's arm and Sarita just died right there. But its NOT UNDERSTANDABLE to have the same angry reaction when Sarita came along side.
as much as I loved comforting him in my first play through, It felt really good and satisfying when Clementine said "Don't be an asshole" to Kenny's "What do you know Clementine?". When Kenny said all those stuffs about "you think it will magically going away", I imagined Clementine getting stabbed right through her heart and having all flashback's to the people she is/might feel responsible for: Lee, Omid, and now Sarita. This is not the second time , she is in this stage, BUT THE THIRD TIME...Kenny's words along are like a trauma man.
From my pov, I was really happy that Kenny found Sarita and wanted to leave early so that Carver wouldn't harm them. With that mindset is why I made Clementine cut off Sarita's arm. Now she is too blame for all the things that happened.. Having to deal with such thing from the inside, with Christa, then Kenny..I loved the fact that she got to blow off some streams..even though it puts more strain on their relationship.
A mistake of stupidity, not a mistake of selfishness. And said mistake didn't lead to anyone's death, as for the "a detrimental scene" argument, what is that supposed to mean? that kenny should hug and make up with Ben even when in the situation where Ben dies an episode beforehand?
Because stupidity is so much better than selfishness? Besides, my point was that by staying with Ben when escaping would have been ridiculously easy proved that Kenny barely cares about Clem. If he really cared about her, why wouldn’t he have immediately shot Ben and went with Lee to save her?
By “determinate scene”, the argument is that Kenny only ever owned up to his mistake with Ben if he’s saved. In other words, in the alternate continuity, Kenny never apologizes to Ben and is in fact absolutely elated that he has just convinced Lee to murder a teenager.
Kenny was preparing the RV for their escape since he was the only one working on the RV in the first place. Or would you've rather the bandits and walkers keep closing in on everyone and killing them? Katjaa and Duck included.
Because grabbing Kat and Duck’s hands and leading them to safety, to the RV, would have been too hard? I would rather Kenny go to the RV with his family, whom he claims to want to protect, and then work on the RV. You act as though Kenny had a one-or-the-other choice between fixing the RV and protecting his family when he could have easily done both if not for his panicking.
Well, your argument was that kenny's a selfish brat that never admits or feels for his mistakes, well that argument is moot.
It’s not moot. After Carlos accuses Kenny of Walter’s death, his response is “I don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, but I know it’s bullshit!” Really Ken? You don't understand that you’re partly to blame for Walter’s death? Furthermore, when Reggie asks what happened between Walter and Carver, Kenny places all of the blame on Carver. “He killed [Walter} because he’s a crazy son of a bitch!” Well Kenny, I see that you’ve neglected to mention that Carver also killed Walter because you randomly murdered one of his own men, and Carver needed to show that he meant business. As Bonnie says, “Carver was protecting his people, Kenny could’ve killed us all!”
"Everyone kept telling him"? How you rewatch the episode before you go on a random typing spree on your keyboard. And Tavia and everyone else had already reached the roof even before Clementine attacked Carver, the shots that hit Carlos and Nick were completely accidental stray unlucky bullets unless you want to blame kenny of the butterfly effect too. And when you're with him, you can convince him not to do the Alvin mistake, so what's with the "He never listens to anyone and insists that he's always right" treatment?
“We have to go” – Carlos
“Just shoot him” –Clem
“Shoot him” –Rebecca
“Kenny, please…” – Sarita
“We don’t have time for this!” – Clem
And whether or not Tavia was already on the roof, they didn’t start firing in the direction of the group until after the confrontation with Troy. Rewatch the scene and listen to the gunfire. It's coming from a distance. The group starts their foray into the herd as Tavia and co. fire their guns elsewhere, and then a few seconds later Tavia and co. start firing directly at them. The group could have gotten away with no accidents if Kenny hadn’t held them up.
And he shoots Jonny regardless of what Clem says. So I’ll correct that statement. “He never listens to anyone until he has escalated the situation and it’s far too late.”
He made up with him pretty quickly in the early stages of episode 3, and forgives and forgets Lee's post-apocalypse crime.
Um, what? He holds the Larry thing against Lee until episode 5. Remember him refraining from helping Clem in Around Every Corner, just because Lee didn’t help murder Larry? And how he leaves Lee to die multiple times? And him forgiving Lee’s crime is determinate. If you haven’t kissed his ass for the past episodes, Kenny actually rubs that mistake in Lee’s face too. “If I ever need advice on American history, or committing murder, I’ll be sure to ask!”
Never let's Lee hear the end of it? It's one line, I can't tell if you're being serious or not. If he was really like that, then he wouldn't have come with me to episode 5
“Should’ve left him behind when we had a chance.” – Kenny, as he glares at Lee.
“Lee should’ve left you in Crawford!” – Kenny
“Leave this shitbird behind!” – Kenny
I’m serious. He never let’s Lee live it down until Ben stands up to him and makes him wake up to his hypocrisy. And he may have come with you, but for plenty of players, Kenny simply refuses to help Clem because Lee helped Ben.
What about all the instances in which he did? When he concedes he's wrong and kills duck himself? When he talks about his reaction to Lee's Larry decision? When he goes down to try to save Ben? When he says that he could've done more and could've been a better Husband, Father and Friend. But no, no. According to you, this man Kenneth never feels sorry, because these events never happened.
You do realize that by “And you’re right, a guy is sorry when he acts like it, which is not what Kenny does,” I was responding to how you said he acts sorry in Amid the Ruins, right? As in, Kenny does not act apologetic at all in Amid the Ruins. I myself admitted in a previous post that Kenny is capable of apologies.
Remember the Kenny who felt genuine remorse for leaving Shawn and actually admits he was in the wrong in that situation? That was the last we ever saw of the Kenny that was truly a good man. And even then, if you try to save Larry, he throws Shawn back at your face, too. “Don’t worry. You turned out like a hero in [Duck’s] eyes.”
And his reaction to Lee’s Larry decision? You mean how he constantly rubs it in Lee’s face that “I did what had to be done. You’re useless, Lee?” Not very apologetic. And what about his alternate speech where he berates Katjaa for committing suicide, completely ignoring how a factor of her suicide was Kenny’s complete lack of support when she needed it the most?
Let me ask you this, was it really so hard to get him to apologize? Did we have to say some tongue twisting words and vocal song lyrics to convince him to apologize? He hasn't traumatized, or even nearly traumatized Clementine, you're greatly exaggerating. "He acts like he never did anything wrong"? In the very scene or he wishes he died and says that he's of help to no one?
Clem should not have had to talk an apology out of Kenny. She should not have had to act like Kenny is a special little flower and is the only person who’s suffered, or to pretend like Kenny hasn’t just inflicted horrible emotional pain on her. Rebecca was mature enough to apologize to Clem with needing to be convinced that what she did was wrong. Bonnie was man enough to admit she made a horrible mistake and actively tried to make up for it. Not Kenny. Kenny’s special. He needs a little girl to comfort him and coddle him until he’s realized what he did was wrong.
Interesting you bring up the tent scene, because that is the greatest display of how self-absorbed Kenny is. “Oh, no one needs me, boo-hoo.” “Oh, why didn’t Carver kill me?” His only concern is his own pain. If Clementine brings up how she’s lost just as much as him, and calls Kenny out on feeling sorry for himself when others have suffered more than him, he responds with “I don’t need to hear this shit” and storms off. What shit? Can’t accept the reality that everyone’s suffered and you’re not special, Ken? Are you a child or something Kenneth?
He wasn't to blame for the escape going to hell for the reasons I've said. And well, like I said before, it was not only a human mistake which you did say was understandable, but also one that he made up for. Plus I'd rather a guy who'd protect me and scream at me(even if wrongfully) than one who sugar talks me but leaves me for dead when the going gets hard.
He was to blame for the escape going to hell for the reasons I’ve said. And you know what? I would also rather have a person who protects me and screams at me. But you know what I’d take over that? A person who protects me and is mature and rational and doesn't unjustifiably screams at me.
Christa, please come back "Kenny couldn't pull that shit on me."
Oh well, I've still got Bonnie and Mike...
I ask yet once again, are you seriously suggesting that acting like an ass to him is the proper way to get an apology or help or consideration out of him?
Once again, Clem shouldn’t have had to baby Kenny to get an apology out of him. Several other characters have made mistakes in the past and were adult enough to realize it on their own and own up to it.
Kenny was too stupid and sad to know what was best for her. It's not selfish thinking, if it was, he wouldn't have talked about how much of a useless burden he is.(which he isn't)
Kenny was too concerned about his own feelings to end Sarita’s suffering. He says so himself that “I won’t be left alone again.” His concern is not Sarita’s well-being. What he really cares about is himself, that he never have to feel the pain of being alone again. While that’s an understandable desire, the fact that he puts said desire above Sarita’s wishes is what makes him selfish. He cared more about his own pain than Sarita's horrible suffering. His relationship with Sarita was not love, she was nothing more than a substitute for Katjaa, and as soon as she was dying, Kenny was more concerned about "oh no, now I won't have a wife anymore", rather than "oh no, my wife is dying horribly, I need to end her suffering." That is not love. It may have looked like love, Kenny may have claimed it was love, but that is not love.
And if he was selfish, he wouldn’t think he’s a burden? That doesn’t really make any sense. A person can be selfish and consider themselves a burden at the same time. Remember Ben?
A completely determinate scene. And even in the scene he mercy kills Ben, Kenny was in the wrong. It’s great that he wanted to help the kid,… more but why the hell did he lock himself down in the alley when he knew Clementine was still out there to save? “You and Clem are my family?” Then what the fuck are you doing in that alley, Ken?
A mistake of stupidity, not a mistake of selfishness. And said mistake didn't lead to anyone's death, as for the "a detrimental scene" argument, what is that supposed to mean? that kenny should hug and make up with Ben even when in the situation where Ben dies an episode beforehand?
Kenny is partly responsible because he did nothing to protect his family during the raid. For a self-confessed family man, Kenny didn’t seem all that concerned about his wife and child as he made a dash to the RV without even looking back, leaving Lee to, once again, take care of his family. And what does he do when Katjaa i… [view original content]
Because stupidity is so much better than selfishness? Besides, my point was that by staying with Ben when escaping would have been ridiculously easy proved that Kenny barely cares about Clem. If he really cared about her, why wouldn’t he have immediately shot Ben and went with Lee to save her? the argument is that Kenny only ever owned up to his mistake with Ben if he’s saved. In other words, in the alternate continuity, Kenny never apologizes to Ben and is in fact absolutely elated that he has just convinced Lee to murder a teenager.
He was too stupid/caught up in the heat of the moment to realize that he could've shot Ben quickly and went with Lee, that's what I meant by stupid mistake and can't use the "barely cares about Clem" argument. And the reason he doesn't appologize to Ben is because Ben is dead, and he's an asshole because of that? I mean, how can you use that as an argument?
Because grabbing Kat and Duck’s hands and leading them to safety, to the RV, would have been too hard?
Yes. He can't pause time and think and grab kat and duck to the RV since Lilly's shot/snipe was surprising and known ahead of time only to Lee. Evident with how most/everyone scattered.(not just Kenny) No one else had time to react properly. And by the time he got separated from kat and duck, if he went out to shoot with Lee, the bandits would've closed in and killed everyone with no RV driver to drive them away.
his response is “I don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, but I know it’s bullshit!”
No, that his response to....whatever super english Carlos used in replyance to Sarita.
“We have to go” – Carlos “Just shoot him” –Clem “Shoot him” –Rebecca “Kenny, please…” – Sarita “We don’t have time for this!” – Clem
None of those was telling kenny to that there was no time (except that last one), the first one was Carlos just stating the need to go. The second and third is Clem and Rebecca telling Luke to kill Carver, the fourth is Sarita pleading Kenny not to do it at all. They don't "keep telling him" there's no time, they very obviously leave silently with the very obvious silence.
Um, what? He holds the Larry thing against Lee until episode 5. Remember him refraining from helping Clem in Around Every Corner, just because Lee didn’t help murder Larry? And how he leaves Lee to die multiple times? And him forgiving Lee’s crime is determinate. If you haven’t kissed his ass for the past episodes, Kenny actually rubs that mistake in Lee’s face too. “If I ever need advice on American history, or committing murder, I’ll be sure to ask!”
Are you kidding me, he stops giving mention to the Larry thing quarter way into episode 3, and in episode 5, he mentions how he overeacted to Lee's decision. And telling Kenny about my past = kissing his ass? Cause that's all I needed to do for Kenny to say that he doesn't give a shit about it when Lilly mentions it.
Clem should not have had to talk an apology out of Kenny. She should not have had to act like Kenny is a special little flower and is the only person who’s suffered, or to pretend like Kenny hasn’t just inflicted horrible emotional pain on her. Rebecca was mature enough to apologize to Clem with needing to be convinced that what she did was wrong. Bonnie was man enough to admit she made a horrible mistake and actively tried to make up for it. Not Kenny. Kenny’s special. He needs a little girl to
facepalm......sigh, the special tongue twisting hug ultra special easily miss-able dialogue option that has kenny say "sorry" to is........drums roll............silence.
Hell, it's even in this thread's OP, I knew it, you'll say yellow even when the screen in front of you is obviously red.
“Should’ve left him behind when we had a chance.” – Kenny, as he glares at Lee. “Lee should’ve left you in Crawford!” – Kenny “Leave this shitbird behind!” – Kenny
The second one was directed at Ben, the third one was not addressing Lee's choice to save Ben. Yet somehow to you it looks like Kenny keeps nagging Lee on and on about what he did.
Christa, please come back "Kenny couldn't pull that shit on me." Oh well, I've still got Bonnie and Mike...
Awfully picky aren't we? Careful, that type of attitude sometimes results in things like....say kenny and christa and mike and bonnie die and you being left with.....the stranger and carver.
Once again, Clem shouldn’t have had to baby Kenny to get an apology out of him. Several other characters have made mistakes in the past and were adult enough to realize it on their own and own up to it.
A mistake of stupidity, not a mistake of selfishness. And said mistake didn't lead to anyone's death, as for the "a detrimental scene" argum… moreent, what is that supposed to mean? that kenny should hug and make up with Ben even when in the situation where Ben dies an episode beforehand?
Because stupidity is so much better than selfishness? Besides, my point was that by staying with Ben when escaping would have been ridiculously easy proved that Kenny barely cares about Clem. If he really cared about her, why wouldn’t he have immediately shot Ben and went with Lee to save her?
By “determinate scene”, the argument is that Kenny only ever owned up to his mistake with Ben if he’s saved. In other words, in the alternate continuity, Kenny never apologizes to Ben and is in fact absolutely elated that he has just convinced Lee to murder a teenager.
Kenny was preparing the RV for their escape since he was the only one working on the RV in… [view original content]
He was too stupid/caught up in the heat of the moment to realize that he could've shot Ben quickly and went with Lee, that's what I meant by stupid mistake and can't use the "barely cares about Clem" argument. And the reason he doesn't appologize to Ben is because Ben is dead, and he's an asshole because of that? I mean, how can you use that as an argument?
Whatever Kenny’s flaws, he isn’t stupid. We’ve seen from his quick thinkning in the meat locker that he wouldn’t be that stupid/ caught up in the heat of the moment during a bad situation. Therefore, the only explanation is that he made a conscious decision to stay behind and not help Lee, something that does not sit well with me.
Um, he doesn’t feel bad about Ben if he isn’t saved because Ben isn’t around to call him out on his hypocrisy. In other words, in the continuity where Ben is killed, Kenny realizes his own flaws. That’s my argument.
Yes. He can't pause time and think and grab kat and duck to the RV since Lilly's shot/snipe was surprising and known ahead of time only to Lee. Evident with how most/everyone scattered.(not just Kenny) No one else had time to react properly. And by the time he got separated from kat and duck, if he went out to shoot with Lee, the bandits would've closed in and killed everyone with no RV driver to drive them away.
You’d think that someone so concerned about his family would immediately think “oh crap, gotta protect my family!” in a bad situation. Kenny was right next to his family, he should have made their safety top priority. Anyways, I brought this up in the first place because I wanted to draw attention to how often Kenny places the entirety of the blame on other people. He didn’t protect his family, it’s all Ben’s fault! His girlfriend was bitten, it’s all Clem’s fault!
No, that his response to....whatever super english Carlos used in replyance to Sarita.
A translation of Carlos’s super English: “Even though you had good intentions, your rash actions led to Walter’s death”. Which is a completely valid point, which Kenny claims is "bullshit".
And… not going to respond to how Kenny placed all the blame on Carver when talking with Reggie?
None of those was telling kenny to that there was no time (except that last one), the first one was Carlos just stating the need to go. The second and third is Clem and Rebecca telling Luke to kill Carver, the fourth is Sarita pleading Kenny not to do it at all. They don't "keep telling him" there's no time, they very obviously leave silently with the very obvious silence.
Actually, Sarita was most likely pleading not to kill Carver in such an unnecessarily brutal fashion. And what does it matter if they don’t “keep telling him?” Clem can quite clearly warn Kenny of the time sensitivity of their situation, and he completely ignores her. The fact that he isn’t repeatedly warned does not make his actions any less stupid or mistaken. He was warned. He ignored the warning. The group suffered as a result.
Are you kidding me, he stops giving mention to the Larry thing quarter way into episode 3, and in episode 5, he mentions how he overeacted to Lee's decision. And telling Kenny about my past = kissing his ass? Cause that's all I needed to do for Kenny to say that he doesn't give a shit about it when Lilly mentions it.
As others have pointed out, you can side with Kenny all the time except for the Larry decision, and he will claim that “there have been plenty of times Lee hasn’t looked out for him”. The implication, of course, is that not killing Larry is the only reason Kenny is reluctant to help Clem.
And, okay? Kenny didn’t rub Lee’s past in your face. That’s great for you. Not so great for the people who had to deal with Kenny constantly complaining about their mistakes and "never siding with him".
facepalm......sigh, the special tongue twisting hug ultra special easily miss-able dialogue option that has kenny say "sorry" to is........drums roll............silence.
Hell, it's even in this thread's OP, I knew it, you'll say yellow even when the screen in front of you is obviously red.
Because most people would just stand there and stare at Kenny, right? The apology is ultra special easily miss-able because most people would try to comfort the guy after everything, or call him out on his hypocrisy. I will give him credit for reaching the conclusion that he was wrong to blame Clem on his own if she’s silent. But if Clem tries to talk to him? Have some heart to heart with the man who is suffering just like her? No apology. No realization that he screwed up. Perhaps it would have been more accurate for me to say that Kenny should be able to reach the conclusion that he was wrong regardless of outside influence or lack thereof. He should have realizes he was wrong even when Clem calls him an asshole because she was right to say he's not the only one who's suffered. Compare with Rebecca, who apologizes for being an asshole even if Clem's a jerk to her in response. She didn't let Clem's behavior towards her effect her realization that she did something wrong.
And come on. We may have differing opinions on Kenny, but I’ve been making a conscious effort to keep the trash-talking directed only at the man himself. There’s no reason to insult each other like that.
The second one was directed at Ben, the third one was not addressing Lee's choice to save Ben. Yet somehow to you it looks like Kenny keeps nagging Lee on and on about what he did.
My point was that Kenny, unlike a mature adult, never lets people forget something they’ve done wrong. He may not outright say “Lee, why didn’t you kill Ben” a million times, but it could not be clearer from the way he treats Ben that he is thinking “I wish you were dead Ben. Why the fuck did Lee save you?” constantly. It’s not until things go really wrong and the boat is stolen that Kenny verbally vents his feelings.
Hell, it takes Lee getting bitten for Kenny to let bygones be bygones and admit that his hating Lee for so long was unfair. Compare with Christa and Omid, who are mature enough to immediately apologize and make up when they argue with each other.
Awfully picky aren't we? Careful, that type of attitude sometimes results in things like....say kenny and christa and mike and bonnie die and you being left with.....the stranger and carver.
Picky? I’d be fine with anyone in the group but Kenny to be honest :P
Because stupidity is so much better than selfishness? Besides, my point was that by staying with Ben when escaping would have been ridiculou… moresly easy proved that Kenny barely cares about Clem. If he really cared about her, why wouldn’t he have immediately shot Ben and went with Lee to save her? the argument is that Kenny only ever owned up to his mistake with Ben if he’s saved. In other words, in the alternate continuity, Kenny never apologizes to Ben and is in fact absolutely elated that he has just convinced Lee to murder a teenager.
He was too stupid/caught up in the heat of the moment to realize that he could've shot Ben quickly and went with Lee, that's what I meant by stupid mistake and can't use the "barely cares about Clem" argument. And the reason he doesn't appologize to Ben is because Ben is dead, and he's an asshole because of that? I mean, how can you use that as an argument?
Because grabbing Kat and Duck’s hands and… [view original content]
I don't really think it was in that context I personally think he was apologising for ranting.
As he said and I quote
"Just becase you're a little girl doesn't make it okay to get people killed."
Clem lost her parents, Lee, Omid, Christa is gone, Pete, Nick and the other members of the cabin group. And Clem never yelled at nobody, so Kenny shut the fuck up. Don't be selfish Kenny. Kenny think he is the only one, who lost his family.
Fucking stupid kid? Clem is the smartest member of the group, so i can't agree with Kenny.
Fucking stupid kid? Clem is the smartest member of the group, so i can't agree with Kenny.
Actually, if you pick "I need you" dialogue option, Kenny will say something like "Hell, I've seen you being more capable than three adults all together. But thanks, I guess."
Clem lost her parents, Lee, Omid, Christa is gone, Pete, Nick and the other members of the cabin group. And Clem never yelled at nobody, so … moreKenny shut the fuck up. Don't be selfish Kenny. Kenny think he is the only one, who lost his family.
Fucking stupid kid? Clem is the smartest member of the group, so i can't agree with Kenny.
Yeah, this is good. I understand Kenny, he lost his family, he was beat almost to death by Carver, he lost Sarita, but he understand Clem's feeling? This little gril gone through so many bad things. And nobody ask: Hey Clem, are you okay?
Fucking stupid kid? Clem is the smartest member of the group, so i can't agree with Kenny.
Actually, if you pick "I need you" dialog… moreue option, Kenny will say something like "Hell, I've seen you being more capable than three adults all together. But thanks, I guess."
He just has temper. Some people (me, for example) just swallow their feelings and wander around while being grumpy all the day. But some people need to throw out their emotions to feel better. Yes, they say bad things while doing this, but you shouldn't think that this is what they actually think about you. They just act rash and that's all.
Trust me, I know many things about people with temper. I grew up among them.
Yeah, this is good. I understand Kenny, he lost his family, he was beat almost to death by Carver, he lost Sarita, but he understand Clem's feeling? This little gril gone through so many bad things. And nobody ask: Hey Clem, are you okay?
Yeah, this is good. I understand Kenny, he lost his family, he was beat almost to death by Carver, he lost Sarita, but he understand Clem's feeling? This little gril gone through so many bad things. And nobody ask: Hey Clem, are you okay?
Yeah... no. Sorry, Kenny, nothing will EVER change the immense hate I have for you. If you die in the next episode, I won't be the tiniest bit upset. I will actually be crying out of happiness.
Go ahead and down vote, see if I care in the slightest, I am proud of my opinion, and down votes don't phase me in ANY WAY.
Comments
No, what he said was too far. What Kenny said had the potential to turn Clem into a suicidal wreck and was completely uncalled for. He put the entire blame on her shoulders which was reckless, inconsiderate and just plain stupid. Yes, he lost someone but he should know not to take out his pain on innocent people, especially a child
He murdered an innocent member of the group and didn't show any remorse, of course it's fair to hold it against him. But that wasn't even my point, I was just pointing out that what he said was applicable to him in the first season and how hypocritical he's being.
That's good to know. I felt genuinely betrayed by Kenny, considering I merely killed the walker that bit her. If he said that shit to Lee I would just shrug and roll my eyes, but you don't berate a little girl like that. I don't need an apology, but Clementine could sure use one, just so she knows uncle Ken still loves her. The last thing anyone needs in a zombie apocalypse is for their friends to start turning on them. Either way, I forgive the prick.
Clem is the closest thing to family Kenny has now.. They have known each other and been through a lot together. Kenny doesn't know any of these people except Clem, Thats why he took it out on her and used her as a punching bag to flush out his emotions.. because she's the only one who he knows he can do it to and she will still not hold it against him.. Its like a family thing with Kenny.. You wanna be my friend? Well you have to cop some of my shit sometimes..
Doesn't change the fact that he didn't apologize to any other dialogue options, and until he does, he's on his own.
You're exaggerating, he was harsh, and he was wrong, and his claims wrong. But for crying out loud, it was a human reaction in a moment of rage and grief which he fixes given the time to recover himself.
"of course it's fair to hold it against him", For so long? so that's it? that one action he did automatically means that this man is beyond hope and irrecoverable and unforgivable, that he is to be damned til the ends of time regardless of what he does afterwards? So regardless of how Lilly is or what she's doing, when/if clem see's her, she's supposed to constantly mention and bash onto her how she killed Carley/Tried to kill Ben?
The hypocrisy argument doesn't even work either for the same reason. He's a hypocrite for calling out someone after he did something 2 years ago? To hell with what he's currently doing. That's like calling a former cigarette smoker a hypocrite for telling us that smoking is bad.
So he's supposed to be nice even when we're a dick to him? I'll call kenny an asshole, that's sure to get me an apology or compliment from him.
Thats kind of childish dont you think? Wa! he didn't say sowwy im going to hold grudges... Kenny's character is hard to understand for some.. he didn't mean it..
Yes, it was an understandable human reaction, but NOT a justifiable one. Frankly, Kenny was being incredibly childish there, and to tell you the truth, I wouldn’t be so hard on him if this was the first time this happened. Except we know from experience what kind of man Kenny is; a self-absorbed, myopic brat who simply can’t accept the reality that maybe, just maybe, he did something wrong. He’s someone who just refuses to ever accept responsibility for his own actions, and pushes the entirety of the blame on other people to make himself feel better at their expense. People don't dislike him for this one action, this is a regular thing with Kenny.
Remember Ben? He holds him entirely accountable for Duck and Katjaa’s deaths, making Ben into a self-loathing, suicidal mess.
Duck, Katjaa, Brie, Walter, Alvin, Carlos, Nick, Sarah, Sarita… Kenny is partly to blame for all of their deaths, just as he holds Clem accountable for Sarita’s death, yet he never faces up to his own mistakes. That is why he’s a hypocrite. He sees it fit to pile the blame on others so he doesn’t have to feel bad, while completely refusing to even consider the notion that he’s to blame as well.
Rebecca? She gets angry at Kenny for getting Alvin killed, but she’s enough of an adult to realize that rubbing that incident in Kenny’s face at every opportunity isn’t the way to handle things.
Kenny? He hypocritically blows up at Clem, and in most scenarios, he never ever apologizes for his unwarranted outburst and pretends things are perfectly fine between him and Clem. He acts as though he hasn’t just verbally assaulted a little girl he supposedly cares about, and never owns up to his mistake.
Remember the Kenny who felt genuine remorse for leaving Shawn and actually admits he was in the wrong in that situation? That was the last we ever saw of the Kenny that was truly a good man. And even then, if you try to save Larry, he throws Shawn back at your face, too. “Don’t worry. You turned out like a hero in [Duck’s] eyes.”
Kenny always comes through! He had a right to be mad at Clem, he did go a little far, but we've all gone a little far to prove points to people we love. This is an instance in Clem being the only person Kenny can confide in, and it spilling over and him not meaning it. Kenny will get it together, he just needed to blow off some steam.
You speak as if Kenny has never owned up or made up to any of his mistakes, The Ben mistake? He forgives Ben and mercy kills him after attempting to save him. Almost getting himself killed as well.
Duck and Katjaa died because of The bandits, Ben and the zombie that bit duck, not because of Kenny.
He went silent and felt bad upon Carlos accusing Kenny of how his action led to Walt's death.(before bouncing back when Carlos continued)
How did Kenny cause Alvin,Carlos,Nick,Sarah and Sarita's deaths? I am seriously lost on this one.
Rubbing the incident at every opportunity, are you kidding me?? He lectures Clementine only when she arrives with Rebecca and Jane. And he doesn't apologize? He does apologize, especially if you're not an ass to him. I have no idea how being an ass to him is a way to get or expect or warrant an apology. And he does/has already owned up to it, in ways much bigger than saying words. He's always been there to help(except maybe during his 2 minutes of grief) more often than almost anyone else in the entire cast and put himself in the line when it counts more often as well, and he almost got himself killed to save clementine from Carver. But to hell with that, all we care about is that the word sorry comes out of his mouth, right? Cause according to you, a guy's sorry when he says it and not when he acts like it.
"who simply can’t accept the reality that maybe, just maybe, he did something wrong." It's really funny hearing you describe him like that in a thread that shows kenny apologized. I mean holy cow man, the color is green right in front of you yet you call it blue.
I got this five!
Man... fuck Kenny. Did you see Clementine's face when he was yelling at her? How could he not know that saying things like that hits hard. Especially for an eleven year old girl that was just trying to keep his loved ones alive.
Kenny really makes my skin crawl, he's such a hypocrite. Drumming up the pathetic "victim card," like he's the only person who's been through shit.
I told the Rebecca and the baby need his help, so sucked it up and helped the baby.
The way Kenny works is that he needs someone to depend on him for help, that's what gives him a reason to keep going on.
The way characters get hated on is their angry, hurt, or hate Clem or they don't agree with your choices.
I guess one good thing will come from Mute Clem.
That's not exactly what sounds like but I suppose it's better than nothing.
A completely determinate scene. And even in the scene he mercy kills Ben, Kenny was in the wrong. It’s great that he wanted to help the kid, but why the hell did he lock himself down in the alley when he knew Clementine was still out there to save? “You and Clem are my family?” Then what the fuck are you doing in that alley, Ken?
Kenny is partly responsible because he did nothing to protect his family during the raid. For a self-confessed family man, Kenny didn’t seem all that concerned about his wife and child as he made a dash to the RV without even looking back, leaving Lee to, once again, take care of his family. And what does he do when Katjaa is clearly in need of his emotional support? “Get on the train, Kat!”
Oh, good for Kenny. He felt bad. I’m sure Walter really appreciates that.
I never said Kenny caused their deaths, but he sure as hell was greatly involved. His recklessness during the hostage situation can get Alvin killed, just like Walter. He wasted everyone’s time by taking ages to kill Carver, even after everyone kept telling him that they didn’t have time for his “revenge” bullshit and to just shoot him, leading to the group getting caught by Troy, wasting even more time. If not for Kenny’s stupidity, the group would have been long gone before Tavia showed up and shot everyone.
And it’s incredible how people keep downplaying Kenny’s outburst. Oh, he was just in grief for about 2 minutes. That’s it? How about, shoving the entirety of the guilt on a little girl because he can’t accept that he was more to blame for the escape going to hell than pretty much everyone else in the group? Remember how Clem already feels guilty for getting Lee and Omid killed? She doesn’t need anymore guilt from Kenny, especially since she clearly doesn’t deserve the blame this time.
Once again, a belated apology that is extremely easy to miss and completely optional.
And you know what's the worst? For all Kenny's talk about how he loves his family, and how he'd do anything to protect them, he's incredibly hypocritical. If Sarita escapes the herd, she begs Kenny to end her suffering. He refuses and condemns her to a slow, painful death because he's too caught up in his selfish, insane hope that she won't turn. I understand that the guy really wants his girl to live, but if Kenny had truly cared about Sarita, he would've put such selfish hopes aside and faced reality to give her the release she wanted. Kenny was a coward in this situation. A blind, selfish coward. And Sarita suffered because of it. My respect for Kenny just keeps declining with each episode.
A mistake of stupidity, not a mistake of selfishness. And said mistake didn't lead to anyone's death, as for the "a detrimental scene" argument, what is that supposed to mean? that kenny should hug and make up with Ben even when in the situation where Ben dies an episode beforehand?
Kenny was preparing the RV for their escape since he was the only one working on the RV in the first place. Or would you've rather the bandits and walkers keep closing in on everyone and killing them? Katjaa and Duck included.
Well, your argument was that kenny's a selfish brat that never admits or feels for his mistakes, well that argument is moot.
"Everyone kept telling him"? How you rewatch the episode before you go on a random typing spree on your keyboard. And Tavia and everyone else had already reached the roof even before Clementine attacked Carver, the shots that hit Carlos and Nick were completely accidental stray unlucky bullets unless you want to blame kenny of the butterfly effect too.
And when you're with him, you can convince him not to do the Alvin mistake, so what's with the "He never listens to anyone and insists that he's always right" treatment?
He made up with him pretty quickly in the early stages of episode 3, and forgives and forgets Lee's post-apocalypse crime.
Never let's Lee hear the end of it? It's one line, I can't tell if you're being serious or not. If he was really like that, then he wouldn't have come with me to episode 5
What about all the instances in which he did? When he concedes he's wrong and kills duck himself? When he talks about his reaction to Lee's Larry decision? When he goes down to try to save Ben? When he says that he could've done more and could've been a better Husband, Father and Friend. But no, no. According to you, this man Kenneth never feels sorry, because these events never happened.
Let me ask you this, was it really so hard to get him to apologize? Did we have to say some tongue twisting words and vocal song lyrics to convince him to apologize? He hasn't traumatized, or even nearly traumatized Clementine, you're greatly exaggerating. "He acts like he never did anything wrong"? In the very scene or he wishes he died and says that he's of help to no one?
He wasn't to blame for the escape going to hell for the reasons I've said. And well, like I said before, it was not only a human mistake which you did say was understandable, but also one that he made up for. Plus I'd rather a guy who'd protect me and scream at me(even if wrongfully) than one who sugar talks me but leaves me for dead when the going gets hard.
I ask yet once again, are you seriously suggesting that acting like an ass to him is the proper way to get an apology or help or consideration out of him?
Kenny was too stupid and sad to know what was best for her. It's not selfish thinking, if it was, he wouldn't have talked about how much of a useless burden he is.(which he isn't)
when kenny was angry it reminded me of good old season 1
i was never angry with kenny,but its nice to know thank you
Clem answer to Kenny after "apologizes": You think because you're Kenny you can just get me hurt and no one who will care? That because you're "sorry" it'll all magicaly go away? That's not how it works!
So fuck this "apologizes" Kenny! Clem has enough problem...
kenny has sacrificed everything,leave him alone
Props to Gavin Hammon for such voicing an amazing and very difficult character.
I am not going to hold Kenny for his overall emotional dilemma, losing Sarita like that was brutal. Its understandable that he would hold Clementine responsible if she were to cut off Sarita's arm and Sarita just died right there. But its NOT UNDERSTANDABLE to have the same angry reaction when Sarita came along side.
as much as I loved comforting him in my first play through, It felt really good and satisfying when Clementine said "Don't be an asshole" to Kenny's "What do you know Clementine?". When Kenny said all those stuffs about "you think it will magically going away", I imagined Clementine getting stabbed right through her heart and having all flashback's to the people she is/might feel responsible for: Lee, Omid, and now Sarita. This is not the second time , she is in this stage, BUT THE THIRD TIME...Kenny's words along are like a trauma man.
From my pov, I was really happy that Kenny found Sarita and wanted to leave early so that Carver wouldn't harm them. With that mindset is why I made Clementine cut off Sarita's arm. Now she is too blame for all the things that happened.. Having to deal with such thing from the inside, with Christa, then Kenny..I loved the fact that she got to blow off some streams..even though it puts more strain on their relationship.
Because stupidity is so much better than selfishness? Besides, my point was that by staying with Ben when escaping would have been ridiculously easy proved that Kenny barely cares about Clem. If he really cared about her, why wouldn’t he have immediately shot Ben and went with Lee to save her?
By “determinate scene”, the argument is that Kenny only ever owned up to his mistake with Ben if he’s saved. In other words, in the alternate continuity, Kenny never apologizes to Ben and is in fact absolutely elated that he has just convinced Lee to murder a teenager.
Because grabbing Kat and Duck’s hands and leading them to safety, to the RV, would have been too hard? I would rather Kenny go to the RV with his family, whom he claims to want to protect, and then work on the RV. You act as though Kenny had a one-or-the-other choice between fixing the RV and protecting his family when he could have easily done both if not for his panicking.
It’s not moot. After Carlos accuses Kenny of Walter’s death, his response is “I don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, but I know it’s bullshit!” Really Ken? You don't understand that you’re partly to blame for Walter’s death? Furthermore, when Reggie asks what happened between Walter and Carver, Kenny places all of the blame on Carver. “He killed [Walter} because he’s a crazy son of a bitch!” Well Kenny, I see that you’ve neglected to mention that Carver also killed Walter because you randomly murdered one of his own men, and Carver needed to show that he meant business. As Bonnie says, “Carver was protecting his people, Kenny could’ve killed us all!”
“We have to go” – Carlos
“Just shoot him” –Clem
“Shoot him” –Rebecca
“Kenny, please…” – Sarita
“We don’t have time for this!” – Clem
And whether or not Tavia was already on the roof, they didn’t start firing in the direction of the group until after the confrontation with Troy. Rewatch the scene and listen to the gunfire. It's coming from a distance. The group starts their foray into the herd as Tavia and co. fire their guns elsewhere, and then a few seconds later Tavia and co. start firing directly at them. The group could have gotten away with no accidents if Kenny hadn’t held them up.
And he shoots Jonny regardless of what Clem says. So I’ll correct that statement. “He never listens to anyone until he has escalated the situation and it’s far too late.”
Um, what? He holds the Larry thing against Lee until episode 5. Remember him refraining from helping Clem in Around Every Corner, just because Lee didn’t help murder Larry? And how he leaves Lee to die multiple times? And him forgiving Lee’s crime is determinate. If you haven’t kissed his ass for the past episodes, Kenny actually rubs that mistake in Lee’s face too. “If I ever need advice on American history, or committing murder, I’ll be sure to ask!”
“Should’ve left him behind when we had a chance.” – Kenny, as he glares at Lee.
“Lee should’ve left you in Crawford!” – Kenny
“Leave this shitbird behind!” – Kenny
I’m serious. He never let’s Lee live it down until Ben stands up to him and makes him wake up to his hypocrisy. And he may have come with you, but for plenty of players, Kenny simply refuses to help Clem because Lee helped Ben.
You do realize that by “And you’re right, a guy is sorry when he acts like it, which is not what Kenny does,” I was responding to how you said he acts sorry in Amid the Ruins, right? As in, Kenny does not act apologetic at all in Amid the Ruins. I myself admitted in a previous post that Kenny is capable of apologies.
Remember the Kenny who felt genuine remorse for leaving Shawn and actually admits he was in the wrong in that situation? That was the last we ever saw of the Kenny that was truly a good man. And even then, if you try to save Larry, he throws Shawn back at your face, too. “Don’t worry. You turned out like a hero in [Duck’s] eyes.”
And his reaction to Lee’s Larry decision? You mean how he constantly rubs it in Lee’s face that “I did what had to be done. You’re useless, Lee?” Not very apologetic. And what about his alternate speech where he berates Katjaa for committing suicide, completely ignoring how a factor of her suicide was Kenny’s complete lack of support when she needed it the most?
Clem should not have had to talk an apology out of Kenny. She should not have had to act like Kenny is a special little flower and is the only person who’s suffered, or to pretend like Kenny hasn’t just inflicted horrible emotional pain on her. Rebecca was mature enough to apologize to Clem with needing to be convinced that what she did was wrong. Bonnie was man enough to admit she made a horrible mistake and actively tried to make up for it. Not Kenny. Kenny’s special. He needs a little girl to comfort him and coddle him until he’s realized what he did was wrong.
Interesting you bring up the tent scene, because that is the greatest display of how self-absorbed Kenny is. “Oh, no one needs me, boo-hoo.” “Oh, why didn’t Carver kill me?” His only concern is his own pain. If Clementine brings up how she’s lost just as much as him, and calls Kenny out on feeling sorry for himself when others have suffered more than him, he responds with “I don’t need to hear this shit” and storms off. What shit? Can’t accept the reality that everyone’s suffered and you’re not special, Ken? Are you a child or something Kenneth?
He was to blame for the escape going to hell for the reasons I’ve said. And you know what? I would also rather have a person who protects me and screams at me. But you know what I’d take over that? A person who protects me and is mature and rational and doesn't unjustifiably screams at me.
Christa, please come back
"Kenny couldn't pull that shit on me."
Oh well, I've still got Bonnie and Mike...
Once again, Clem shouldn’t have had to baby Kenny to get an apology out of him. Several other characters have made mistakes in the past and were adult enough to realize it on their own and own up to it.
Kenny was too concerned about his own feelings to end Sarita’s suffering. He says so himself that “I won’t be left alone again.” His concern is not Sarita’s well-being. What he really cares about is himself, that he never have to feel the pain of being alone again. While that’s an understandable desire, the fact that he puts said desire above Sarita’s wishes is what makes him selfish. He cared more about his own pain than Sarita's horrible suffering. His relationship with Sarita was not love, she was nothing more than a substitute for Katjaa, and as soon as she was dying, Kenny was more concerned about "oh no, now I won't have a wife anymore", rather than "oh no, my wife is dying horribly, I need to end her suffering." That is not love. It may have looked like love, Kenny may have claimed it was love, but that is not love.
And if he was selfish, he wouldn’t think he’s a burden? That doesn’t really make any sense. A person can be selfish and consider themselves a burden at the same time. Remember Ben?
He was too stupid/caught up in the heat of the moment to realize that he could've shot Ben quickly and went with Lee, that's what I meant by stupid mistake and can't use the "barely cares about Clem" argument. And the reason he doesn't appologize to Ben is because Ben is dead, and he's an asshole because of that? I mean, how can you use that as an argument?
Yes. He can't pause time and think and grab kat and duck to the RV since Lilly's shot/snipe was surprising and known ahead of time only to Lee. Evident with how most/everyone scattered.(not just Kenny) No one else had time to react properly. And by the time he got separated from kat and duck, if he went out to shoot with Lee, the bandits would've closed in and killed everyone with no RV driver to drive them away.
No, that his response to....whatever super english Carlos used in replyance to Sarita.
None of those was telling kenny to that there was no time (except that last one), the first one was Carlos just stating the need to go. The second and third is Clem and Rebecca telling Luke to kill Carver, the fourth is Sarita pleading Kenny not to do it at all. They don't "keep telling him" there's no time, they very obviously leave silently with the very obvious silence.
Are you kidding me, he stops giving mention to the Larry thing quarter way into episode 3, and in episode 5, he mentions how he overeacted to Lee's decision. And telling Kenny about my past = kissing his ass? Cause that's all I needed to do for Kenny to say that he doesn't give a shit about it when Lilly mentions it.
facepalm......sigh, the special tongue twisting hug ultra special easily miss-able dialogue option that has kenny say "sorry" to is........drums roll............silence.
Hell, it's even in this thread's OP, I knew it, you'll say yellow even when the screen in front of you is obviously red.
The second one was directed at Ben, the third one was not addressing Lee's choice to save Ben. Yet somehow to you it looks like Kenny keeps nagging Lee on and on about what he did.
Awfully picky aren't we? Careful, that type of attitude sometimes results in things like....say kenny and christa and mike and bonnie die and you being left with.....the stranger and carver.
lol
Whatever Kenny’s flaws, he isn’t stupid. We’ve seen from his quick thinkning in the meat locker that he wouldn’t be that stupid/ caught up in the heat of the moment during a bad situation. Therefore, the only explanation is that he made a conscious decision to stay behind and not help Lee, something that does not sit well with me.
Um, he doesn’t feel bad about Ben if he isn’t saved because Ben isn’t around to call him out on his hypocrisy. In other words, in the continuity where Ben is killed, Kenny realizes his own flaws. That’s my argument.
You’d think that someone so concerned about his family would immediately think “oh crap, gotta protect my family!” in a bad situation. Kenny was right next to his family, he should have made their safety top priority. Anyways, I brought this up in the first place because I wanted to draw attention to how often Kenny places the entirety of the blame on other people. He didn’t protect his family, it’s all Ben’s fault! His girlfriend was bitten, it’s all Clem’s fault!
A translation of Carlos’s super English: “Even though you had good intentions, your rash actions led to Walter’s death”. Which is a completely valid point, which Kenny claims is "bullshit".
And… not going to respond to how Kenny placed all the blame on Carver when talking with Reggie?
Actually, Sarita was most likely pleading not to kill Carver in such an unnecessarily brutal fashion. And what does it matter if they don’t “keep telling him?” Clem can quite clearly warn Kenny of the time sensitivity of their situation, and he completely ignores her. The fact that he isn’t repeatedly warned does not make his actions any less stupid or mistaken. He was warned. He ignored the warning. The group suffered as a result.
As others have pointed out, you can side with Kenny all the time except for the Larry decision, and he will claim that “there have been plenty of times Lee hasn’t looked out for him”. The implication, of course, is that not killing Larry is the only reason Kenny is reluctant to help Clem.
And, okay? Kenny didn’t rub Lee’s past in your face. That’s great for you. Not so great for the people who had to deal with Kenny constantly complaining about their mistakes and "never siding with him".
Because most people would just stand there and stare at Kenny, right? The apology is ultra special easily miss-able because most people would try to comfort the guy after everything, or call him out on his hypocrisy. I will give him credit for reaching the conclusion that he was wrong to blame Clem on his own if she’s silent. But if Clem tries to talk to him? Have some heart to heart with the man who is suffering just like her? No apology. No realization that he screwed up. Perhaps it would have been more accurate for me to say that Kenny should be able to reach the conclusion that he was wrong regardless of outside influence or lack thereof. He should have realizes he was wrong even when Clem calls him an asshole because she was right to say he's not the only one who's suffered. Compare with Rebecca, who apologizes for being an asshole even if Clem's a jerk to her in response. She didn't let Clem's behavior towards her effect her realization that she did something wrong.
And come on. We may have differing opinions on Kenny, but I’ve been making a conscious effort to keep the trash-talking directed only at the man himself. There’s no reason to insult each other like that.
My point was that Kenny, unlike a mature adult, never lets people forget something they’ve done wrong. He may not outright say “Lee, why didn’t you kill Ben” a million times, but it could not be clearer from the way he treats Ben that he is thinking “I wish you were dead Ben. Why the fuck did Lee save you?” constantly. It’s not until things go really wrong and the boat is stolen that Kenny verbally vents his feelings.
Hell, it takes Lee getting bitten for Kenny to let bygones be bygones and admit that his hating Lee for so long was unfair. Compare with Christa and Omid, who are mature enough to immediately apologize and make up when they argue with each other.
Picky? I’d be fine with anyone in the group but Kenny to be honest :P
I don't really think it was in that context I personally think he was apologising for ranting.
As he said and I quote
"Just becase you're a little girl doesn't make it okay to get people killed."
DAMMMN!!!! OH SHITTT! That made my day that was fucking amazing. I need to replay the episode now..
Same here!
Yes, thats what it sounds like to me.
Clem lost her parents, Lee, Omid, Christa is gone, Pete, Nick and the other members of the cabin group. And Clem never yelled at nobody, so Kenny shut the fuck up. Don't be selfish Kenny. Kenny think he is the only one, who lost his family.
Fucking stupid kid? Clem is the smartest member of the group, so i can't agree with Kenny.
Actually, if you pick "I need you" dialogue option, Kenny will say something like "Hell, I've seen you being more capable than three adults all together. But thanks, I guess."
Yeah, this is good. I understand Kenny, he lost his family, he was beat almost to death by Carver, he lost Sarita, but he understand Clem's feeling? This little gril gone through so many bad things. And nobody ask: Hey Clem, are you okay?
He just has temper. Some people (me, for example) just swallow their feelings and wander around while being grumpy all the day. But some people need to throw out their emotions to feel better. Yes, they say bad things while doing this, but you shouldn't think that this is what they actually think about you. They just act rash and that's all.
Trust me, I know many things about people with temper. I grew up among them.
Luke asked if she was okay when she was on the stairs in episode 4.
Hehe we kinda still can.
Yeah... no. Sorry, Kenny, nothing will EVER change the immense hate I have for you. If you die in the next episode, I won't be the tiniest bit upset. I will actually be crying out of happiness.
Go ahead and down vote, see if I care in the slightest, I am proud of my opinion, and down votes don't phase me in ANY WAY.
It changes nothing...
The idiot was once a father...
There is NEVER...under ANY circumstances...that you lash out at a CHILD in that manner....unless you have some serious issues upstairs.