Still reading but something sticks out at me. You may not be doing Luke any favors by bringing up negative examples of other characters. It will likely get viewed as you tearing down others to build up him up.
Probably but damn near all the cabin group got bashed though. But it makes sense that players have made their peace with those characters now that their stories are over. Luke's story is still ongoing so he has a chance to win (more) people over.
It is SO refreshing to see someone justify their viewpoint in such a thought out, reasonable manner.
On this forum people just say 'Kenny is better because lol' or 'lol luke has no faults'
Pretty much every viewpoint on this forum that someone disagrees with but can't argue against is just met by a host of childish down votes instead of intelligent discussion.
Which reminds me, I was goin to make a no down vote petition. Ill do that later.
People are giving Luke lots of shit for royally fucking up one time (and I full admit, like he does, that he fucked up). Nobody seems to remember all of the good things he has done over the past four episodes, such as.
Saving Clem's life in episode one, then offering her a place in the group and food later on.
Sheilding her from a bullet with his own body in episode two.
Traveling for over 24 hours without sleep, and probably without food or water in order to save his freinds in episode three.
Running through the entire herd to try and save Sarah, than staying with her for hours to try and help her.
Alot of the current favorites have made mistakes far worse than what Luke did in episode four. And I still like them. All I'm saying is, if you like these other characters in spite of their mistakes, why can't you give Luke the same curtesy?
Fine.
People are giving Luke lots of shit for royally fucking up one time (and I full admit, like he does, that he fucked up). Nobody see… morems to remember all of the good things he has done over the past four episodes, such as.
* Saving Clem's life in episode one, then offering her a place in the group and food later on.
* Sheilding her from a bullet with his own body in episode two.
* Traveling for over 24 hours without sleep, and probably without food or water in order to save his freinds in episode three.
* Running through the entire herd to try and save Sarah, than staying with her for hours to try and help her.
Alot of the current favorites have made mistakes far worse than what Luke did in episode four. And I still like them. All I'm saying is, if you like these other characters in spite of their mistakes, why can't you give Luke the same curtesy?
I'm reading through it and commenting on little things I see here and there, minor or not.
He literally puts himself in the way of a bullet to try to save Clementine.
This seems like a retelling of the scene. Yes, he protected Clem and that is a point in his favor, but this makes it sound like the bullet would have hit Clementine if he hadn't. He simply got himself out of the line of fire, bringing Clementine down too so she wouldn't get hit either. Again, it shows he's protective of her and that's good, but this makes his actions sound way more heroic than they were.
Keep in mind, the only reason he wanted to lie was to keep his best friend alive.
Doesn't make the idea any less wrong. Walter is the victim here, and Luke was suggesting keeping him in the dark over the death of his own boyfriend. Moreover, it wasn't Luke's decision to make, but he tried to make it so. It was Nick's, and Nick was prepared to accept the risks.
He doesn’t change his mind when Kenny tells Sarita it’s too dangerous.
Why would he? I'm sure he knows everything they ever do will be dangerous. Kenny clearly only told Sarita that because he didn't want to put her specifically in harm's way, not because the mission in question was going to be any more dangerous than anything Luke had already done that day, including nearly dying during the walker fight on the bridge. Still brave, sure, but what Kenny said wouldn't have affected his decision in the first place.
Moving on, I will say I always thought it was dumb that people complained about Luke suggesting leaving Kenny behind, when he was clearly speaking logically and the group jumped all over him for it. Luke was making the right calls, and the exact same calls Kenny would have made had it been Luke who was beaten so savagely and rendered unconscious. The outrage was always unwarranted, so I agree on your points there.
Re: Luke yelling at Sarah, I've only seen comments on the ableism in the writing surrounding Sarah, not necessarily that Luke is a horrible person, although I'm sure that's been said, don't get me wrong. I mean, no one's calling Clementine horrible for slapping Sarah, but they are commenting on that being a symptom of a bigger problem in the writing. In any case, I've also seen a focus on one of Luke's lines, "I don't know what's wrong with you!", which is pretty stupid considering Luke should know exactly what's wrong with her. I can certainly see why that would be seen as asshole-ish of him since he just sounds like he's lashing out after getting tired of her personal issues.
Still, I can agree that Luke probably just doesn't know anything about handling Sarah, so calling it ignorance is about as fair as you can be.
running through an entire herd to save someone who is a liability to the rest of the group
I have some issues with referring to Sarah as a liability at that point considering nothing she did before that ever caused the group any trouble. She was always thrust into situations beyond her control and outside of her influence because the group was constantly facing problems that they had either brought on themselves or that Carver had brought unto them. But even if it were the case, you seem to be implying that being a liability is a reason to abandon her (otherwise, you wouldn't have brought it up at all), and that we should be praising Luke for not doing so. There's that Crawford mentality popping up again; I guess they had a point, eh?
Re: Little reaction to Nick's death. This whole point is kind of undercut by this scene simply not existing if Nick has already died at the ski lodge, in which case Luke appears to never once give a crap about Nick. Now, I don't hold that against him personally, since it's certainly possible, as his defenders may point out, that he mourned off-screen. I will however, hold it against the writing once again, because absolutely no reaction of a character to the death of another character who was his friend for years is just a sign of oversight in the writing, nothing more. You can't even say Luke's been too busy, he's had plenty of chances now to say something about Nick, but he didn't. Again, something I blame more on the writing than Luke himself.
To all the people who ship Luke and Nick (or Luke and anyone else for that matter), honestly ask yourself this: If it had been Luke and Nick (or anyone you shipped Luke with) up in that gift shop, how many of you would be cheering about your OTP, saying that Luke and Nick were clearly the best characters in the game, and that neither of them did anything wrong?
This is a silly point considering if the action were treated the same way, with the characters admitting they fucked up, then it'd be the same situation we have now. Their shippers would probably still cheer about them, but would also be disappointed in them for it, just like Luke fans have said they're disappointed in him for it too.
If anything, Jane took advantage of him. You should be pissed at her, not so much at him. He had a reason to not be using his wits. His best friend just died (likely following the orders Luke gave him), and he just left a teenage girl to die in one of the most brutal ways possible. I’d doubt he’d be thinking too straight.
Yeah, this is bull, especially considering that the same goddamn thing happens if Nick has already been dead since A House Divided, and there's been no change in Luke's behavior because of it. Nick is clearly not on his mind here. It also assumes that we've left Sarah behind, but if we didn't and Nick hasn't just died earlier, then Luke has none of these excuses this guy/girl is drumming up for him.
No, fuck Jane because she took advantage of an emotionally raw man who had just lost his best friend (and arguably only friend) in the world and then had the gall to leave without so much as a goodbye.
And again, if Nick isn't there, then Jane has no way of knowing about who Luke has lost. Hell, even if Nick is there, Jane still has no way of knowing their past unless Luke brings it up, and if we have to assume he did, then that just enters the realm of the absurd, because Luke's actions here are clearly so inconsistent with everything he's done, that we have to flat out make shit up to make it understandable.
Now, after this, you bring up everyone else who has died, a few of which Jane knows about. Fair enough. However, she's still only been with the group for, what, a day? She has no way of knowing how long they've been together or how much Luke cares unless he brought it up, and we don't know if he did.
On top of which, sure, I can understand Luke giving into temptation that one time, even if I totally don't buy this "he's holding back all his pain" stuff. But then he's clearly making plans to go screw with Jane again afterwards when he's talking with Clem, after what went down earlier as a result. That is what got a lot of people angry (well, angrier). And I can't blame them. Some may say "oh no, he really just wanted to scavenge", but i think we all can safely call bullshit. He chose her specifically so they could do the dirty deed again.
Well argued piece over all, but I think some of the points are really reaching, particularly that Luke is pissed at being used by Jane. I don't think the episode is ambiguous about the fact that he's pissed that his fuckbuddy is gone because the writing of the entire situation seems to be putting him in a bad light. And as you said, he admitted he fucked up. Different interpretations are fine, but I think it's pretty clear.
Thier is no defense for being irresponsible and putting the others at danger. Just cause one is a fan does not mean the character is in the right or shine all the time. The characters have flaws
There is also the fact that He was screaming at Sarah for hours. He tried to grab and carry Sarah out and she screams. Okay. that will attract walkers. But Why would you be SHOUTING at Sarah which likewise would make Sarah scream MORE and make Walkers which may be attracted will suddenly become Extremely aggressive.
Who's the one in the wrong? The Girl with Anxiety disorder who can barely handle the stress of her dad slapping her who now has this Idiot SCREAMING at her that there's something wrong with her and making her even more terrified?
(Note, I'm giving Luke's character credit and 100% blame everything on Bad writing and not Luke himself)
Or the fully grown adult who supposedly knew Sarah and Sarah's father for months? And Who was the Leader of the group and was probably told 20 times already by her father about said daughter's disorder?
Either Luke surviving this whole time is a complete fluke. He's an idiot. or bad writing.
The stress of having walkers around obviously did not help, but giving birth without a doctor around was very risky and dangerous to begin with. She still probably would have died regardless if walkers had attacked or not.
To be fair, some people blame him for the death of Sarah (In the deck) because he was the one that caused the walkers to get so close in the… more first place.
I forgive Luke because i understand what he did. But they have a point, if he was looking out, maybe even Rebecca could've gotten a proper labor too.
No, he was not handling it appropriately, but to be fair, I think a lot of people would be panicking at that point. Sarah wasn't budging, and hadn't moved for hours, and there were tons of zombies out there trying to break through. He was desperate and afraid that not only would she die, he would too.
There is also the fact that He was screaming at Sarah for hours. He tried to grab and carry Sarah out and she screams. Okay. that will attra… morect walkers. But Why would you be SHOUTING at Sarah which likewise would make Sarah scream MORE and make Walkers which may be attracted will suddenly become Extremely aggressive.
Who's the one in the wrong? The Girl with Anxiety disorder who can barely handle the stress of her dad slapping her who now has this Idiot SCREAMING at her that there's something wrong with her and making her even more terrified?
(Note, I'm giving Luke's character credit and 100% blame everything on Bad writing and not Luke himself)
Or the fully grown adult who supposedly knew Sarah and Sarah's father for months? And Who was the Leader of the group and was probably told 20 times already by her father about said daughter's disorder?
Either Luke surviving this whole time is a complete fluke. He's an idiot. or bad writing.
As a Luke fan, I thank you for that! It was everything that needed to be said about this dork.
I have to say, I was really mad at Luke for putting the group in danger the way he did. Now that I've had a couple of days to kind of think over it all, I do understand the place Luke was coming from when he accepted Jane's offer instead of doing his job of checking the perimeter. I'm still a little mad, but not as much as I was initially.
I still love this dork though. He's still my bro. I know he fucked up big time, but then again, who hasn't? At least he admitted it and apologized. That's more than what some people would ever do. If I can forgive Rebecca for being a bitch the first time we met her, Nick for almost shooting Clem, Carlos for the shed, and Kenny for all his rage and ill temper, then I can and will forgive Luke for this.
As a Luke fan, I thank you for that! It was everything that needed to be said about this dork.
I have to say, I was really mad at Luke fo… morer putting the group in danger the way he did. Now that I've had a couple of days to kind of think over it all, I do understand the place Luke was coming from when he accepted Jane's offer instead of doing his job of checking the perimeter. I'm still a little mad, but not as much as I was initially.
I still love this dork though. He's still my bro. I know he fucked up big time, but then again, who hasn't? At least he admitted it and apologized. That's more than what some people would ever do. If I can forgive Rebecca for being a bitch the first time we met her, Nick for almost shooting Clem, Carlos for the shed, and Kenny for all his rage and ill temper, then I can and will forgive Luke for this.
This was mostly directed to the tumblr fandom, which was pretty upset about the latest episode. There were a lot of posts talking about how much better all the people who died this episode where than Luke, which completely overlooks their flaws.
Does Luke have flaws? Absolutely. He is a human being. Don't hate him because he fucked up one time and love everyone else in spite of their much, MUCH worse fuckups.
Thier is no defense for being irresponsible and putting the others at danger. Just cause one is a fan does not mean the character is in the right or shine all the time. The characters have flaws
I hope they bring back the sibling dynamic Luke and Clementine had! cough @puzzlebox cough hahaha
And yeah, I was angry at Luke at first but I've calmed down now that it's been a few days. I still love him.
Yes yes, I still like Luke, but I'm still pissed because he gave in.. Do you see Bonnie and Mike hooking up? No. You STILL don't give into that urge.. Peoples' lives are on the line and you decide to just have sexual relations with a woman you just met? Obviously she took advantage of him, but was he the only one that just lost his friends?? No! He didn't have the "luxury" of seeing Luke and having to finish him off.. Clementine did. Wouldn't YOU want to protect your friends, make sure they're safe BEFORE thinking about yourself? Yes yes it's nice once in a while to have those moments, but not a time like this. Of course I'm pissed at Jane! The Group has seen how she manipulated Troy, Luke should have been aware of that, ESPECIALLY because she took all the medical supplies!! Come on now.. Honestly, the only people I trust as of now is Mike and Bonnie, unfortunately though, Mike looks like he's the first to die in episode five..
I agree mostly with what you said.. But Luke giving into temptation is a matter of opinion, for me that was completely wrong and I was pretty upset after seeing this.. It really angered me that he actually did wanted to do the "dirty deed" again and was pissed because he couldn't..
I'm reading through it and commenting on little things I see here and there, minor or not.
He literally puts himself in the way of a b… moreullet to try to save Clementine.
This seems like a retelling of the scene. Yes, he protected Clem and that is a point in his favor, but this makes it sound like the bullet would have hit Clementine if he hadn't. He simply got himself out of the line of fire, bringing Clementine down too so she wouldn't get hit either. Again, it shows he's protective of her and that's good, but this makes his actions sound way more heroic than they were.
Keep in mind, the only reason he wanted to lie was to keep his best friend alive.
Doesn't make the idea any less wrong. Walter is the victim here, and Luke was suggesting keeping him in the dark over the death of his own boyfriend. Moreover, it wasn't Luke's decision to make, but he tried to make it so. It was Nick's, and Nick was prepared to accept t… [view original content]
This. Thank you. Couldn't write it better myself. Jane is to blame, I even heard a theory that she slept with him because she knew it would cause problems, like she told Clementine that groups crumble, and she did it to make that group fall apart because she knew Clementine wouldn't leave just like that.
Luke has tried though.. And even though it's "the thought that counts" type of mentality, he failed. Kenny wasn't Godlike this episode either, he was an asshole to me for chopping Sarita's arm off.. But, he did pull through for the group to help with the childbirth so I give him that.
THIS.
This. Thank you. Couldn't write it better myself. Jane is to blame, I even heard a theory that she slept with him because she knew … moreit would cause problems, like she told Clementine that groups crumble, and she did it to make that group fall apart because she knew Clementine wouldn't leave just like that.
What, so Jane's just a wild and crazy bitch who goes around looking for opportunities to break up groups with her vagina?
She doesn't even want to alert Clem to her leaving and she rejects Clem's suggestion that she could go with her.
It seemed as though you were mildly endorsing it. Also, I would say that while Jane does share some of the responsibility here, it's still Luke that bears most of the burden. Just like Nick beared most of the burden for shooting Matthew. Being in a weak state of mind explains recklessness, but it doesn't excuse it.
I would not think the majority are hating on him for one screw up only, but its just the fact he choose sex,which lets be honest is the first time in the walking dead game as a lame or most simple fuck up action no other character has committed. It was in that moment in this episode the main cause of the situation was from Luke mainly. Still its enough for me to dislike em and upset about Kenny too on how he was acting when we been threw this shit before. To be honest am surprise no one[ myself included ] is hating on Jane
That's exactly my point.
This was mostly directed to the tumblr fandom, which was pretty upset about the latest episode. There were a lot… more of posts talking about how much better all the people who died this episode where than Luke, which completely overlooks their flaws.
Does Luke have flaws? Absolutely. He is a human being. Don't hate him because he fucked up one time and love everyone else in spite of their much, MUCH worse fuckups.
He wasn't screening at her for hours. If he was, we would have heard him before we even got near the place. We only hear him yell at the last 5 minutes, right after you find the glasses.
There is also the fact that He was screaming at Sarah for hours. He tried to grab and carry Sarah out and she screams. Okay. that will attra… morect walkers. But Why would you be SHOUTING at Sarah which likewise would make Sarah scream MORE and make Walkers which may be attracted will suddenly become Extremely aggressive.
Who's the one in the wrong? The Girl with Anxiety disorder who can barely handle the stress of her dad slapping her who now has this Idiot SCREAMING at her that there's something wrong with her and making her even more terrified?
(Note, I'm giving Luke's character credit and 100% blame everything on Bad writing and not Luke himself)
Or the fully grown adult who supposedly knew Sarah and Sarah's father for months? And Who was the Leader of the group and was probably told 20 times already by her father about said daughter's disorder?
Either Luke surviving this whole time is a complete fluke. He's an idiot. or bad writing.
It seemed as though you were mildly endorsing it. Also, I would say that while Jane does share some of the responsibility here, it's still L… moreuke that bears most of the burden. Just like Nick beared most of the burden for shooting Matthew. Being in a weak state of mind explains recklessness, but it doesn't excuse it.
I'm still pretty pissed off at Luke, but it would be easy to forgive him if I thought that dynamic would come back. If they can have a real conversation or two, remind us that he cares about what she's going through, and have him tell her that he's sorry for screwing up and he'll have her back from now on, that would mean the world. But IDK, it just kind of feels like there's no time left, no pun intended. This episode was the place for it and instead we got what we got.
Ugh, I'll still side with him if we have to make a choice, but damn it, I want to love him again.
I hope they bring back the sibling dynamic Luke and Clementine had! cough @puzzlebox cough hahaha
And yeah, I was angry at Luke at first but I've calmed down now that it's been a few days. I still love him.
I think that Luke's screw up is the only real character development since he was first introduced. Despite Luke's indiscretion and his derelict patrol, I still like him as a character.
Hopefully Luke is one of the survivors from the russian ambush. The feud between him and Kenny will keep things interesting, especially now with the baby a stressing point.
I am a Luke fan, but I'll admit I was pretty pissed about the timing they did it. Took me time to calm down and just laugh about it now. You cant forget that awkward moment. xD
Well at least I wont be complaining how perfect he was anymore. ^^
Nono, I don't endorse it nor did I intend on doing it.
Nick and Luke's position is different.
Luke didn't kill anyone. Nick did.
You kinda can't say he costed Sarah's life (if you saved her) since even if he was looking out at the perimeter, he couldn't have killed them all. Either way, they would have made it up to the observation deck and done the same thing.
It seemed as though you were mildly endorsing it. Also, I would say that while Jane does share some of the responsibility here, it's still L… moreuke that bears most of the burden. Just like Nick beared most of the burden for shooting Matthew. Being in a weak state of mind explains recklessness, but it doesn't excuse it.
Wellington is said to be a camp in or near MICHIGAN. Most of our characters are in the Georgia area, maybe a little more north (I believe we are said to be in the North Carolina area or something?) so no not Florida.
I prefer the theory that after robbing (or nearly robbing) Arvo Jane has a huge breakdown of conscience to the point where she realizes she's not completely numb to attachments. Is she feeling for this group particularly Clementine? Is she afraid of feeling? I think she offers the deed to Luke to see if she feels anything anymore or simply to forget her crisis of emotion-- but by the end of it she realized it didn't work and she needs to leave this group before she becomes attached and suffers more. She doesn't want to suffer like when she lost her sister ever again.
THIS.
This. Thank you. Couldn't write it better myself. Jane is to blame, I even heard a theory that she slept with him because she knew … moreit would cause problems, like she told Clementine that groups crumble, and she did it to make that group fall apart because she knew Clementine wouldn't leave just like that.
Well to take some good out of Luke's "mistake", at least it seemed like he was looking to start a relationship with Jane instead of just banging her and moving on like it was nothing.
Well to take some good out of Luke's "mistake", at least it seemed like he was looking to start a relationship with Jane instead of just banging her and moving on like it was nothing.
Comments
Maybe he meant other characters are forgiven for their mistakes, but Luke gets bashed. I don't know.
Probably but damn near all the cabin group got bashed though. But it makes sense that players have made their peace with those characters now that their stories are over. Luke's story is still ongoing so he has a chance to win (more) people over.
You're a legend.
If I could like this fifty times I would.
This is amazing. You definitely made me look at Luke in a new light.
Can I just also say this:
It is SO refreshing to see someone justify their viewpoint in such a thought out, reasonable manner.
On this forum people just say 'Kenny is better because lol' or 'lol luke has no faults'
Pretty much every viewpoint on this forum that someone disagrees with but can't argue against is just met by a host of childish down votes instead of intelligent discussion.
Which reminds me, I was goin to make a no down vote petition. Ill do that later.
But yeah seriously, huge kudos to you for this.
Ummm a tl;dr version pls?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Fine.
People are giving Luke lots of shit for royally fucking up one time (and I full admit, like he does, that he fucked up). Nobody seems to remember all of the good things he has done over the past four episodes, such as.
Alot of the current favorites have made mistakes far worse than what Luke did in episode four. And I still like them. All I'm saying is, if you like these other characters in spite of their mistakes, why can't you give Luke the same curtesy?
Thanks.
Lots of good points.
I'm reading through it and commenting on little things I see here and there, minor or not.
This seems like a retelling of the scene. Yes, he protected Clem and that is a point in his favor, but this makes it sound like the bullet would have hit Clementine if he hadn't. He simply got himself out of the line of fire, bringing Clementine down too so she wouldn't get hit either. Again, it shows he's protective of her and that's good, but this makes his actions sound way more heroic than they were.
Doesn't make the idea any less wrong. Walter is the victim here, and Luke was suggesting keeping him in the dark over the death of his own boyfriend. Moreover, it wasn't Luke's decision to make, but he tried to make it so. It was Nick's, and Nick was prepared to accept the risks.
Why would he? I'm sure he knows everything they ever do will be dangerous. Kenny clearly only told Sarita that because he didn't want to put her specifically in harm's way, not because the mission in question was going to be any more dangerous than anything Luke had already done that day, including nearly dying during the walker fight on the bridge. Still brave, sure, but what Kenny said wouldn't have affected his decision in the first place.
Moving on, I will say I always thought it was dumb that people complained about Luke suggesting leaving Kenny behind, when he was clearly speaking logically and the group jumped all over him for it. Luke was making the right calls, and the exact same calls Kenny would have made had it been Luke who was beaten so savagely and rendered unconscious. The outrage was always unwarranted, so I agree on your points there.
Re: Luke yelling at Sarah, I've only seen comments on the ableism in the writing surrounding Sarah, not necessarily that Luke is a horrible person, although I'm sure that's been said, don't get me wrong. I mean, no one's calling Clementine horrible for slapping Sarah, but they are commenting on that being a symptom of a bigger problem in the writing. In any case, I've also seen a focus on one of Luke's lines, "I don't know what's wrong with you!", which is pretty stupid considering Luke should know exactly what's wrong with her. I can certainly see why that would be seen as asshole-ish of him since he just sounds like he's lashing out after getting tired of her personal issues.
Still, I can agree that Luke probably just doesn't know anything about handling Sarah, so calling it ignorance is about as fair as you can be.
I have some issues with referring to Sarah as a liability at that point considering nothing she did before that ever caused the group any trouble. She was always thrust into situations beyond her control and outside of her influence because the group was constantly facing problems that they had either brought on themselves or that Carver had brought unto them. But even if it were the case, you seem to be implying that being a liability is a reason to abandon her (otherwise, you wouldn't have brought it up at all), and that we should be praising Luke for not doing so. There's that Crawford mentality popping up again; I guess they had a point, eh?
Re: Little reaction to Nick's death. This whole point is kind of undercut by this scene simply not existing if Nick has already died at the ski lodge, in which case Luke appears to never once give a crap about Nick. Now, I don't hold that against him personally, since it's certainly possible, as his defenders may point out, that he mourned off-screen. I will however, hold it against the writing once again, because absolutely no reaction of a character to the death of another character who was his friend for years is just a sign of oversight in the writing, nothing more. You can't even say Luke's been too busy, he's had plenty of chances now to say something about Nick, but he didn't. Again, something I blame more on the writing than Luke himself.
This is a silly point considering if the action were treated the same way, with the characters admitting they fucked up, then it'd be the same situation we have now. Their shippers would probably still cheer about them, but would also be disappointed in them for it, just like Luke fans have said they're disappointed in him for it too.
Yeah, this is bull, especially considering that the same goddamn thing happens if Nick has already been dead since A House Divided, and there's been no change in Luke's behavior because of it. Nick is clearly not on his mind here. It also assumes that we've left Sarah behind, but if we didn't and Nick hasn't just died earlier, then Luke has none of these excuses this guy/girl is drumming up for him.
And again, if Nick isn't there, then Jane has no way of knowing about who Luke has lost. Hell, even if Nick is there, Jane still has no way of knowing their past unless Luke brings it up, and if we have to assume he did, then that just enters the realm of the absurd, because Luke's actions here are clearly so inconsistent with everything he's done, that we have to flat out make shit up to make it understandable.
Now, after this, you bring up everyone else who has died, a few of which Jane knows about. Fair enough. However, she's still only been with the group for, what, a day? She has no way of knowing how long they've been together or how much Luke cares unless he brought it up, and we don't know if he did.
On top of which, sure, I can understand Luke giving into temptation that one time, even if I totally don't buy this "he's holding back all his pain" stuff. But then he's clearly making plans to go screw with Jane again afterwards when he's talking with Clem, after what went down earlier as a result. That is what got a lot of people angry (well, angrier). And I can't blame them. Some may say "oh no, he really just wanted to scavenge", but i think we all can safely call bullshit. He chose her specifically so they could do the dirty deed again.
Well argued piece over all, but I think some of the points are really reaching, particularly that Luke is pissed at being used by Jane. I don't think the episode is ambiguous about the fact that he's pissed that his fuckbuddy is gone because the writing of the entire situation seems to be putting him in a bad light. And as you said, he admitted he fucked up. Different interpretations are fine, but I think it's pretty clear.
Thier is no defense for being irresponsible and putting the others at danger. Just cause one is a fan does not mean the character is in the right or shine all the time. The characters have flaws
There is also the fact that He was screaming at Sarah for hours. He tried to grab and carry Sarah out and she screams. Okay. that will attract walkers. But Why would you be SHOUTING at Sarah which likewise would make Sarah scream MORE and make Walkers which may be attracted will suddenly become Extremely aggressive.
Who's the one in the wrong? The Girl with Anxiety disorder who can barely handle the stress of her dad slapping her who now has this Idiot SCREAMING at her that there's something wrong with her and making her even more terrified?
(Note, I'm giving Luke's character credit and 100% blame everything on Bad writing and not Luke himself)
Or the fully grown adult who supposedly knew Sarah and Sarah's father for months? And Who was the Leader of the group and was probably told 20 times already by her father about said daughter's disorder?
Either Luke surviving this whole time is a complete fluke. He's an idiot. or bad writing.
The stress of having walkers around obviously did not help, but giving birth without a doctor around was very risky and dangerous to begin with. She still probably would have died regardless if walkers had attacked or not.
I read this on Tumblr and it made me love him all over again. Thanks for doing this post! It was well thought out.
No, he was not handling it appropriately, but to be fair, I think a lot of people would be panicking at that point. Sarah wasn't budging, and hadn't moved for hours, and there were tons of zombies out there trying to break through. He was desperate and afraid that not only would she die, he would too.
As a Luke fan, I thank you for that! It was everything that needed to be said about this dork.
I have to say, I was really mad at Luke for putting the group in danger the way he did. Now that I've had a couple of days to kind of think over it all, I do understand the place Luke was coming from when he accepted Jane's offer instead of doing his job of checking the perimeter. I'm still a little mad, but not as much as I was initially.
I still love this dork though. He's still my bro. I know he fucked up big time, but then again, who hasn't? At least he admitted it and apologized. That's more than what some people would ever do. If I can forgive Rebecca for being a bitch the first time we met her, Nick for almost shooting Clem, Carlos for the shed, and Kenny for all his rage and ill temper, then I can and will forgive Luke for this.
I hope they bring back the sibling dynamic Luke and Clementine had! cough @puzzlebox cough hahaha
And yeah, I was angry at Luke at first but I've calmed down now that it's been a few days. I still love him.
That's exactly my point.
This was mostly directed to the tumblr fandom, which was pretty upset about the latest episode. There were a lot of posts talking about how much better all the people who died this episode where than Luke, which completely overlooks their flaws.
Does Luke have flaws? Absolutely. He is a human being. Don't hate him because he fucked up one time and love everyone else in spite of their much, MUCH worse fuckups.
I hope they bring back the sibling dynamic too. It was one of my favorite parts about Season 2, that bond that began forming in episodes 1 & 2.
I'm tired of him. All he's done is screw up and then go against Kenny like he's got the right to give orders. At least Kenny has been useful.
Yes yes, I still like Luke, but I'm still pissed because he gave in.. Do you see Bonnie and Mike hooking up? No. You STILL don't give into that urge.. Peoples' lives are on the line and you decide to just have sexual relations with a woman you just met? Obviously she took advantage of him, but was he the only one that just lost his friends?? No! He didn't have the "luxury" of seeing Luke and having to finish him off.. Clementine did. Wouldn't YOU want to protect your friends, make sure they're safe BEFORE thinking about yourself? Yes yes it's nice once in a while to have those moments, but not a time like this. Of course I'm pissed at Jane! The Group has seen how she manipulated Troy, Luke should have been aware of that, ESPECIALLY because she took all the medical supplies!! Come on now.. Honestly, the only people I trust as of now is Mike and Bonnie, unfortunately though, Mike looks like he's the first to die in episode five..
I agree mostly with what you said.. But Luke giving into temptation is a matter of opinion, for me that was completely wrong and I was pretty upset after seeing this.. It really angered me that he actually did wanted to do the "dirty deed" again and was pissed because he couldn't..
THIS.
This. Thank you. Couldn't write it better myself. Jane is to blame, I even heard a theory that she slept with him because she knew it would cause problems, like she told Clementine that groups crumble, and she did it to make that group fall apart because she knew Clementine wouldn't leave just like that.
Luke has tried though.. And even though it's "the thought that counts" type of mentality, he failed. Kenny wasn't Godlike this episode either, he was an asshole to me for chopping Sarita's arm off.. But, he did pull through for the group to help with the childbirth so I give him that.
What, so Jane's just a wild and crazy bitch who goes around looking for opportunities to break up groups with her vagina?
She doesn't even want to alert Clem to her leaving and she rejects Clem's suggestion that she could go with her.
What? No. it's a theory someone made up. I didn't say I supported it... Damn.
It seemed as though you were mildly endorsing it. Also, I would say that while Jane does share some of the responsibility here, it's still Luke that bears most of the burden. Just like Nick beared most of the burden for shooting Matthew. Being in a weak state of mind explains recklessness, but it doesn't excuse it.
I would not think the majority are hating on him for one screw up only, but its just the fact he choose sex,which lets be honest is the first time in the walking dead game as a lame or most simple fuck up action no other character has committed. It was in that moment in this episode the main cause of the situation was from Luke mainly. Still its enough for me to dislike em and upset about Kenny too on how he was acting when we been threw this shit before. To be honest am surprise no one[ myself included ] is hating on Jane
He wasn't screening at her for hours. If he was, we would have heard him before we even got near the place. We only hear him yell at the last 5 minutes, right after you find the glasses.
Just back to what I said in the essay, I wasn't trying to excuse his actions as much as explain them.
I'm still pretty pissed off at Luke, but it would be easy to forgive him if I thought that dynamic would come back. If they can have a real conversation or two, remind us that he cares about what she's going through, and have him tell her that he's sorry for screwing up and he'll have her back from now on, that would mean the world. But IDK, it just kind of feels like there's no time left, no pun intended. This episode was the place for it and instead we got what we got.
Ugh, I'll still side with him if we have to make a choice, but damn it, I want to love him again.
I think that Luke's screw up is the only real character development since he was first introduced. Despite Luke's indiscretion and his derelict patrol, I still like him as a character.
Hopefully Luke is one of the survivors from the russian ambush. The feud between him and Kenny will keep things interesting, especially now with the baby a stressing point.
I am a Luke fan, but I'll admit I was pretty pissed about the timing they did it. Took me time to calm down and just laugh about it now. You cant forget that awkward moment. xD
Well at least I wont be complaining how perfect he was anymore. ^^
Nono, I don't endorse it nor did I intend on doing it.
Nick and Luke's position is different.
Luke didn't kill anyone. Nick did.
You kinda can't say he costed Sarah's life (if you saved her) since even if he was looking out at the perimeter, he couldn't have killed them all. Either way, they would have made it up to the observation deck and done the same thing.
That's what it seems like to me. Hopefully they reveal something to pinpoint our location better in episode five.
All it know for sure is that we are a long ass way from Wellington.
Wellington is said to be a camp in or near MICHIGAN. Most of our characters are in the Georgia area, maybe a little more north (I believe we are said to be in the North Carolina area or something?) so no not Florida.
I prefer the theory that after robbing (or nearly robbing) Arvo Jane has a huge breakdown of conscience to the point where she realizes she's not completely numb to attachments. Is she feeling for this group particularly Clementine? Is she afraid of feeling? I think she offers the deed to Luke to see if she feels anything anymore or simply to forget her crisis of emotion-- but by the end of it she realized it didn't work and she needs to leave this group before she becomes attached and suffers more. She doesn't want to suffer like when she lost her sister ever again.
Just a thought.
Well to take some good out of Luke's "mistake", at least it seemed like he was looking to start a relationship with Jane instead of just banging her and moving on like it was nothing.
Thanks for reminding me of all the good he's done this Season. Way better than... Kenny. #TeamLuke
Yeah. Jane leaving without even a heads up was kinda shity.
It took three days, but it was worth it.