An analysis of Luke and Jane's irresponsible actions
(This thread has been heavily edited, so initial comments may not make sense. Also, this is not a defense of what Jane and Luke did. I'm totally disappointed in the both of them for their actions too.)
How did Luke and Jane get to such a point where it seems they're almost out-of-character for being so irresponsible? We know it was just meaningless sex. Of course it was. They had just met! But it could've meant more to both parties as well. In addition, Luke's image of Clem is breaking down (if you made the darker choices), and this is why he doesn't share much with her.
Luke finds a similarity with Jane when she tells her story about her sister. They both tried to save someone, but they both failed (even if you saved Sarah from the trailer, Clem could only snap Sarah out of it). So there's their reason for finding comfort in each other.
Jane and Luke have a couple other similarities--they look out for Clem as if she's a younger sister, and they don't want to burden Clem with their emotions. In Jane's case, she was trying to hide them from Clem. E.g. when she got emotional after holding up Arvo, she had to leave Clem. She doesn't tell Clem what's going on with her at the picnic table either--she just cuts herself off and changes the subject. Similarly, Luke doesn't share what's going on in his head with Clem. He never really shared what happened to his family even though Clem shared her story; Nick says Luke just "keeps moving," implying he never stops to grieve or show emotion.
Similarly to Jane, I think Luke doesn't want to burden Clem with his emotional troubles, just like Kenny mentions (det): "Sometimes I forget you're just a kid. I'm sorry, Clementine, for burdening you with all this." Maybe that’s the same reason why Luke doesn't want to tell Clem his story, although he'll gladly listen to hers. He needed a peer like Jane to talk to; someone he felt he could connect with.
Luke may also be reluctant to talk to Clem because Luke's perception of Clem changed if she left Sarah behind. His image of Clem was destroyed; this wasn't the little-sister-figure he knew before. If you didn't save Sarah, Luke says, "About Sarah...I, uh...I didn't think you'd leave her. It's hard to think about..." The same thing happened if Clem watched Carver die; he confronts her about it by saying something like: "I thought the horror wasn't getting to you. But you watched your friend kill Carver. Clem...you didn't even blink." Perhaps this was another reason why Luke felt he couldn't talk to Clem. Either he didn't want to spoil what was left of her innocence, or he didn't want to share his experiences with a Clem who was darker than he first imagined.
Also, everyone mentions how Luke seemed to be more upset about Jane leaving than Nick dying. But honestly, it seems that his relationship with Jane had been Luke's only coping mechanism we've seen him use to try to get over his grief. When Jane left, his only mechanism to deal with Nick's (and others') deaths also left. When he punched the wall, that was him being upset about both Jane leaving, as well as everyone else leaving (dying). When else has Luke actually lost it and yelled like that, or ever gotten so angry? Luke says,"… Everything is SHIT. So forgive me for wantin' to enjoy ONE MOMENT of somethin' else!" At least Luke's expressing his anger and frustration for once, rather than just keeping it bottled inside. But I think talking to Jane finally forced Luke to start letting his emotions out, and processing them. Talking to her helped him open the lid, and he can't put it back on anymore. Did you notice how Luke got steadily more aggressive towards Kenny the rest of the episode (and vice versa of course, Kenny's no saint either), as if Luke was just letting his anger flow freely?
Then of course, Jane leaves. This has been covered in threads before, but Jane obviously doesn't want to put down roots with the group when she knows they'll inevitably die. Their fling was a wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. To an extent, it was meaningless sex for both of them. But the claim that it had absolutely no significant meaning for either of them is, I think, faulty. C'mon guys, these characters are more complicated than that.
too long; didn't read: Their fling was, at its core, just meaningless sex. But Jane and Luke have some similarities: 1) they both have let down someone they tried to save, 2) neither of them show their negative emotions to Clem (because she's young, or I imagine they don't want to burden her with any more emotional baggage than she already has), and 3) they both care for Clem like an adoptive-little sister.
Luke's vision of Clem as an innocent little sister is being tarnished if you left Sarah behind, if you watched Carver die, or if you stole from Arvo, so I feel Luke's becoming more taciturn towards her in those situations.
Luke's and Jane's little fling as well as their conversation was probably Luke's only coping mechanism, and now he can't keep the stopper on his emotions (notice how he gets super testy towards Kenny the whole rest of the ep after Jane leaves.)
Kindly explain why you don't agree. Thanks.
Comments
There was no meaning, it was to remove stress....
hey don't blame me when your heart is broken when jane doesn't want any more of luke ( ͡* ͜ʖ ͡*)
Feels like I'm in tumblr
Luke was in the mood. I won't hate in him for that but he SHOULD have held it in his pants until the baby was born.
No way I am reading all of that but I agree in the most general idea that yes it was more than just that. . . at least for Jane. In my opinion, Jane left because of Luke. I think maybe she was growing attracted to him, and in a larger part the group. Like she said she couldn't handle her coming attached to the group only to see members die again. To be honest, I thought it was kind of obvious that it wasn't just "meaningless sex." Anyways, it all just adds to Janes beliefs about not growing attached to anyone or anything, from someone who left her sister behind.
I think this is the longest thread I've ever seen...
I just tl;dr my friend
Just read that part, I almost didn't read that
Im waiting for the Juke fans to come
My heart was never "broken," buddy. I didn't have any ships in this game until after I wrote this thing, and I'm very reluctant to call myself flat-out "shipping" it. I was just trying to do some character analysis. And if you can't read, well.... * shrugs * Though I didn't realize how long this original post was. My tiny computer screen makes all text look long to me. I cut it down some....
Also if you had actually read my post, you would've realized I agree with you. It was mostly meaningless, but that doesn't mean there was no significance behind it at all.
Just wondering when Luke said that line about watching Carver die, I don't remember getting it?
I think you raise some good points that I hadn't thought about, especially about Luke and Jane taking similar approaches to Clem, Luke's perception of Clementine changing, and both he and Jane being the types to keep their problems to themselves until they fall apart. Also very astute observation about Luke's anger growing over the course of the episode, like he'd uncorked his feelings and couldn't turn the tap back off once he had, I didn't really think about that. I definitely think he was happy to get his rocks off, but that he did also legitimately see Jane as potentially more than that, and that Jane in turn completely shut off the chance of forming any real feelings for him or anybody, because it freaked her out and made her too vulnerable.
It's understandable that it happened between them, though I don't really ship them at all, it's just hard to get past the anger at the terrible timing to delve into the headspace issues.
Well I shortened the post to the mostly more significant points I haven't seen others make, so maybe you could give it a go. I thought it was obvious that it wasn't just "meaningless sex" as well, but the number of dissenters I found around on certain threads was staggering. That's why I felt the need to go into such depth before, but like I said, I edited it out.
Also I agree about Jane becoming attached, if you read above....
Thank you for your helpful feedback. Love this discussion.
Luke just wanted a minute of something else, much Like I would like a miniute of something else with Megan Fox....and also Mia Kulnis. Then Id like them both to have a minute of something else with each other while I watch.
You have to say "Kenny was protecting us" and then possibly "he deserved it". I can't remember which conversation it is - I think it happens when Luke comes to check on Clementine after Arvo leaves.
That quote was from a gif set actually; give me some time, and I'll try to dig up the link for you....
I agree; their timing was ridiculously bad. If Rebecca's water hadn't just broken I would be more forgiving, but they knew the baby was coming in the next 24 hours or so! (I feel I have to rectify my old phrasing-- I "shipping" them might be too strong a word.) The only reason I see them together now is because it happened, and in my opinion two stoic characters finding comfort in each other, whether it be sex or whatever, is sweet. Again, the circumstances were terribly terrible. But if there had been no baby and no walkers, then yes. Also, I think this is a realistic portrayal--the two of them got swept up in each other, making them forget their responsibilities momentarily, just like normal people do. That's definitely one of the great releases of sex pre-ZA--you can forget about all the shiz for a bit and just let yourself go. And they literally did forget about the walkers and the stress of the group for a bit, just, not at the right time.
By "headspace," do you mean, "headcanon"?
Also, thank you sincerely for being the only person to actually read my original post and respond with some thought. Apologies for the original length.
Yup. Thank you also for not reading my post. I agree with what you said and stated the exact same above, but I also made more completely different points that I've doubt you've read elsewhere.
They didn't even do it, they just cuddled from what it looks like
Jane was putting her boots back on when Clem found 'em. Do you cuddle with your feet?
Well some people do; I don't judge lol.
Here's the link for the original post of the conversation about Carver: Click here Still hunting for a video....
Jane gave him the offer no one could refuse, good enough for me.
Well, now that I look back at it. Luke: "That's about as human as a felt in a long time. I almost forgot what-- Perhaps they did
m not angry with the poor guy, not one bit. And I side with Kenny not Luke, at any given choice.
Its the ZA for gods sakes, the chances of relaxation through sex are almost nil, yet theyre both still human. They will want some form of 'connection' to life for want of a better word.
They had just been through a traumatic experience at Carver's camp, then watched a third of their number die. In a situation such as this, your group is your family, and whilst so many of you are berating Luke for not grieving for Nick. This was part of the grieving process - he had no chance to grieve at the mobile home other than a broken "Fuck..." Maybe Jane wanted to do this for him, knowing he was hurting physically and emotionally?
Yes, it was piss poor timing, but did the guy even know she was in labour at the time?
Just cut the guy a break, maybe, just maybe. After losing Pete - the last thing he had resembling family, then Nick - on top of the others, knowing without a doubt that at some point this world would kill him - the poor guy just didnt want to be alone? To die alone? God knows I'd probably do the same!
You're absolutely right; he had no time to grieve at the trailer park, and he had to grieve somehow. And I didn't even think of the possibility that Jane could've wanted to do this for him, not just wanting it for herself. That could definitely have been part of the situation.
Update: shortened the original post.
Also Luke wondering if Jane 'doesn't like the whole group, or just doesn't like me' suggests he has feelings for her.
Nick- " I wish I was like him, I wish I could always keep moving on" I want Luke to reveal his whole and true self next episode.
Yes me too! If he's struggling to keep a hold on his emotions after sharing them with Jane like I suggested, I think we'll see more of his true self. Unfortunately I think it'll be mostly through his anger lashing out at Kenny, as that's what we've seen so far. I really hope Luke doesn't accidentally lash out at Clem, but I think that's entirely possible. He'll probably apologize right after, but I just hope Luke gets a good enough hold on himself to realize how he's acting.
i don't care that they had sex, i cared that they put the group in danger and cost Sarah her life in the end. I understand why he did it, he was foaming at the brain, but his actions have consequences, one was Sarah dying.
Yup. I totally agree with you, but that's not what I'm talking about here.
But now I've edited it, I dare ya to read it. Come at me, bro.