I don't understand...
Both Luke and Kenny showed flaws in episode 4 yet people aren't as mad at Kenny because he has lost people, So has Luke, he is the last surviver of the cabin group also he has lost his parents. I am not a 'Kenny hater' I just really don't get why people are so mad at Luke for making one mistake that he apologises for and receives a lot of hate yet they aren't that mad at Kenny or any other character that has made a mistake (which would be all of them.)
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i think it is mainly just episode 4, luke just seems like a bit of a letdown, plus there is no way to console or sympathise with him, at least with kenny we were a part of his grieving process, we could console him, we could help him out and we could talk to him about things, but we as players just aren't a part of luke's story, luke is far more distant and separated from us compared to kenny who we were with and a part of his story almost the whole time
Probably because Luke's mistake is still fresh in our minds. Give it another episode, people will start to forgive and forget.
Also, I think Kenny was a little more helpful than Luke in Episode 4. Kenny helped Rebecca and brought the baby into the world, despite how hurt he was over Sarita's death. Luke yelled at Sarah, had to be rescued by Clem and Jane, started several arguments with Kenny, and then had sex with Jane at the worst possible time.
But like you said, every character makes mistakes. Every great character has flaws.
Kenny seems to wear his heart on his sleeve unlike Luke who seemingly pushes back his emotions, I think that maybe because of this people feel more sympathy towards Kenny as he is showcasing his emotions, but I don't think that it is right for people to be mad at both Luke and Kenny but forgive only Kenny because they say he was acting that way because he has lost so many people however they don't forgive Luke even if he apologises and admits to his mistake because he doesn't show his emotions and show that he was basically acting like he did in the episode because of the built up emotions he has of the people he has lost.
Well to be fair, the only way to save sarah is to slap her eventually. So we can't really say that him yelling at her is that bad.
He also only had to be saved by Clem and Jane because he refused to leave someone to die.
The other points, however, are definitely valid.
one mistake? Hes at least made 2-3 at minmum
I agree, and I hope that people will forgive Luke, I agree he messed up but who doesn't? We are all only human, I understand that people may not like Luke but I don't like hearing people say that Kenny shouting at Clementine was justifiable because he has lost so many people yet Luke having sex with Jane is unforgivable, I do agree that Kenny seemed to be more helpful in this episode as he helped with the birth of Rebecca's baby however Luke was just as helpful, he tried to save Sarah and acted as emotional support at times to Rebecca. I like both Luke and Kenny but have always been a bit more of a Luke fan so seeing people turn on him for making a mistake and being human doesn't seem right to me but I'm glad others can see he is only human too!
but it is hard to sympathise with someone who doesn't show any emotions or you can't talk to them about it, we as players can imagine how characters are feeling, but unless they say it, it just doesn't feel as real, because for all we know luke could really be thinking "meh, nick was a loser anyway, whatever" he probably isn't thinking that, but from a storytelling perspective an non emotionally open character is hard to feel for
I agree, which is why I hope that if Luke survives the shoot out in episode 4 that he will show some of his built up emotions in episode 5 but I really do think he cared for nick and the others and I do think their deaths have affected him as he did travel all the way to Carvers camp with no food, no sleep when he could have basically left them.
Oh yeah you're right, I should have clarified. It's not so much that he was yelling at her, it's just that he was yelling in general, when the two of them were surrounded by walkers. She's already hysterical, so trying to be even louder wasn't the right thing to do. But in all fairness, that was a very sticky situation that they were in, and there was definitely no easy way out of it. But hearing him lose his patience when trying to distract the walkers with Jane was just annoying.
Nah, one is really the minimum. The maximum changes dramatically judging by how you view each situation.
But unless you can give me, say, three examples of things which he did are intrinsically bad, and not just your perception of what was bad, then my mind will not be changed,
Let me guess the mistakes would be;
Dropping Clementine when he saw she was bitten - He was scared, how would you react if you were carrying a little girl and saw she had a bite on her arm and you didn't know for sure wether it was a walker bite, sure we as the audience wish he could have been more gentle but that isn't a mistake.
'Wanting to leave Kenny behind' - He didn't want to leave him behind at first he said they should rest up but when everyone was so persistent on leaving straight away he told them they would have to leave him behind because there was no way they could carry him.
Stealing food from Carver and getting caught - yes, I agree that wasn't a good thing to do but he had just traveled a very long distance with no food and no sleep he probably would have dies if he didn't eat soon and thought he wouldn't get caught, when he did he apologises and admits guilt, his actions may have caused him to get caught but it wasn't in his intentions to get caught.
Any other mistakes let me know, I do agree he may have made more than one mistake in his life being human we make tonnes of mistakes but none of his mistakes seem to be that important.
Well, he had been in there for hours trying to save her. If I was in that situation I would sure as hell be yelling. The walkers weren't going to just leave them alone after they knew they were in there and could see them either, regardless of the noise.
I think him losing his patience was bad, but understandable. Hence I don't really view him as any worse because of it.
It's not like he lost his temper and insulted members of the group and called clem a 'fucking kid' or anything, unlike some. He was always at least a nice guy.
Excluding towards Ken, but I can't really blame him. Kenny has been deliberately antagonising Luke since I chose to sit with Luke over him in my game.
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that most players don't understand where Luke was coming from when he made his mistake. Kenny's situation we understood better, because he's from season 1, and we've seen him lose his family before, so seeing him go through it again, and react the way he did was to be expected. Whereas with Luke, this is the first time players have seen him mess up so badly, and seen him breakdown, so of course people would be more surprised by how he handles it, and less forgiving of what he did.
It's also harder to sympathize with Luke's situation, because we're never given time to understand his character's situation or emotional state, so him messing up as badly as he did, seems very unjustified to many people. And considering how such little time was spent on the deaths of the rest of the cabin group, and how no characters even react to their deaths in any meaningful way, of course people wouldn't understand how much of an affect their deaths would have on Luke, since we as players didn't feel anything for these deaths, so why should we think they affected Luke as well? We don't, and as a result, we don't understand that Luke's lost people as well, whereas with Kenny we've known full well from last season that he's lost people, so him losing another would just send him off the edge.
There just wasn't enough time invested into Luke's character arc this episode for players to understand his situation or motivations, so a lot of what he did seemed really unjustified to people, and as a result has made it harder for people to forgive him for his mistake. But with Kenny, we all understand what he's going through since we've seen him go through it before, and seen him mess up numerous of times, so it's easier for people to forgive him. At least that's my take on it.
I agree that with Kenny we know his story and his character better than we know Luke and that Luke does not show us his emotions which may mean that people are less likely to understand why he acted the way he did in episode 4 however I don't think that just because we know Kenny more and understand his situation more that we should excuse him for doing something and not Luke, i do get that as players some of us wouldn't really think too much about Luke and how many people he had lost in the episode because he didn't voice it, just like in episode 3 when he travels a long distance to try to save his friends, since this happened off screen we as the players don't really think about it that much. I hope that telltale make Luke react to the death of his friends in episode 5 so maybe people can cut him some slack and see that he has lost the same amount as Kenny, even Clementine has lost the same amount as Kenny.
Honestly, don't understand AT ALL how people are mad at Luke. What did he do? Seriously, what did he do? Im not mad/ upset at any character but if I had to choose one to be mad at it would be Kenny. Someone please tell me what Luke did to merit anyone being mad about him ?
It was because he had sex with Jane when he was meant to be on lookout, also people don't like that he seemed to 'react more to Janes departure than to Nicks death' also they don't like that he was 'shouting at Sarah' I really don't like all the hate he has received from this episode I can completely understand why he reacted 'more' to Janes departure as he had sex with her in the first place because he probably needed the comfort and when she left without even saying goodbye he would have felt used and with the repressed feelings he has of Nicks death and feeling like crap from Carvers beating and I don't know if he even had any food since we last saw him since Carver caught him trying to steal food so he was feeling beaten up, hungry, tired and had repressed emotions and after finding comfort in Jane and she leaves him he would react the way he did because it would feel like everything was going wrong. As for him 'shouting' at Sarah I don't see what was so bad about what he said, the worst was probably 'why are you being like this?!' And after running through a herd to try and save Sarah and after she won't move and shuts herself out from Luke he would feel slightly frustrated especially if there were walkers surrounding them that could break down the place any moment and Sarah wouldn't budge, I actually liked Luke a little more for this because he actually stayed with her when he could have left, it seems like an unselfish thing to do, and when he doesn't react much to Nicks death it's because he knows that Sarah is the one who is in need of emotional comfort and not him so combining these and all his other acts of selflessness I think that him acting selfish in one moment can be forgiven as who isn't selfish in their lifetime?
My main point is that his mistakes never hurt the group. Every bad thing that happens in this game USUALLY happens because of someone making a decision or sheer stupidity. Luke, like everyone, has made mistakes but he has never hurt the group because of it (at least not yet anyways. . . knock on wood)
I completely agree which is why I want people to cut Luke some slack!
Yep, this exactly. While i don't think it gives Luke a good excuse for instance his timing with jane, I do notice how most people are easily forgiven when they royally mess up, but when Luke does so, the reaction is a lot worse.
Yeah, I don't understand why everyone turns on Luke for his mistake but forgives other characters so easily, it seemed to me like people just wanted a reason to hate him, I understand not everyone will like Luke but I don't see how his actions can be unforgivable to some.
To be honest,in that episode Luke didn't appear like the most helpful individual-and then he does "you know" later on.
In contrast,he appeared more helpful in earlier episodes-he's one of the Clem's first allies in Season 2,they appear to be buddies and partners in episode 2,in episode 3 he follows the group and tries to help them escape and then episode 4 -well...not his best moments. Plus he does appear more helpful with actions like assisting Rebecca's birth.
I agree with the point that he has the advantage of being in the story longer-cances are there's more love for Kenny rather than Luke love.
Personally for me,it would've been nice if he consoled Clem near the end of the episode. Even if Clem's got stronger some emotional support would be nice.
All in all,there's one more episode so things could change.
He was the reason the zombies sneaked up on the group in the first place causing the situation which got Sarah killed, do you understand now? I didn't want her to die, even if she was broken.
Yeah, I hope that we will see Luke break down or something in episode 5, I would have loved him to console her although he did ask if she's okay, I think Luke was helpful in the episode but maybe not as helpful as Kenny was seeing as Kenny has had babies before
Sure I know he made a mistake but that's not what I am trying to say, my point is that even if he did mess up when he gave in to Jane (as she made the offer) I don't see how he can't be forgiven even if he apologises, I know people are blaming Luke for Sarah's death but to be honest I don't think that even if he did do his job that they would have been able to provent the walkers from surrounding them, Rebecca couldn't travel far as she was in pain so they would have ended up in the same place and even if he could have warned them earlier there is no way they could have brought up their defences anymore and Rebecca wouldn't have had her baby any sooner so in my opinion the same situation would have happened. I know that what Luke did was in the worst possible time and I am not saying I dont see what he did wrong because I understand, but I can forgive him for this mistake because I know that even if he is a videogame character telltale want us to think of them as human and really episode 4 just showed us his realistic human flaws, he can be selfish at times but so can we all.
I was mad at Luke during the situation, but I'm not really made at him now.
Yes he did do it with Jane, but most people seem to blame Luke instead of Jane, also with the Walker crisis, there was a whole herd, whose to say it wouldn't have reached them anyway and cause the same events to happen or even kill Luke? I'm not saying what Luke did was acceptable since he put the group in jeopardy, but you can't expect him to act just like most fictional characters. This is something I love about The Walking Dead, the characters are fake, but what defines them are real, their decisions are relatable and dislikeable, they do things in a way that's a bit realistic.
I understand why Luke did what he did. It wasnt the best timing and it wasnt a great decision but after everything he went through, I can understand him wanting to ease some of his grief and loneliness with someone who was feeling some of the same things. He couldnt have predicted that Rebecca would go into labor right at that moment. It was human weakness, not unforgivable sin. I will say nothing more about Kenny. Ive expounded enough on my distaste for him.
I agree!
I agree!
We can play what if's forever.
I know that he didn't do his job, now i understand what Carver meant., if you don't do a job it puts us "all." at risk.
both have flaws and people dislike and like both , Kenny is on the edge and was a dick too Clementine at the start of episode 4 he definately has his moments and Luke is a great character but is very careless he disappears all the time but i dont see what he problem with him and jane was but a the same time i can understand why they are pissed he should have been taking watch
What Season 2 Kenny's done, regardless of intention:
1: Took on 4 armed attackers, which drove Carver to kill his host. (Carver's fault, but instigated by his aggressiveness.)
2: Tried to jump armed guards back in the truck, which is moronic and could have got everyone shot.
3: Wasted time by being over-dramatic in Carver's death rather than shooting him.
4: Didn't stay close to Sarita, which forced Clem to take action rather than him.
5: Decides to sit and mope, only coming into action (and mega-denial) once he hears that Rebecca is about to have a baby.
The problem with Luke, is he isn't a memorable character. From episode one, I can't think of anything he has said/done to make me concerned about his well-being. If he dies in episode five, then so what. In my opinion he is more of a detriment to the group.
Now Kenny, yes he has said and done some stupid things, but that's Kenny. Plus, we know him. We can predict what his actions will be most of the time.
I fully expected him to have a go at Clementine for Sarita's death. It's obvious he would, considering what he was like previously. Trouble is with Kenny, is his mouth is far ahead of his brain. He says things in the heat of the moment that he doesn't mean. Many of us are the same where that's concerned. When or if it comes to the crunch though, I fully expect him to come through for Clementine. However, I can't see Luke doing the same. I doubt he would risk his life for someone that killed his family, which is what Ben did to Kenny.
I respect your opinion and I know that everyone has their own opinion, to me I think that Luke has done more for the group or has at least tried to do more for the group, he was the leader, he saved clementine from the walkers at the beginning, gave her food and sat with her listening to her story, he realised she wasn't just a little girl and that she was valuable to them all, he cared enough for Nick and Pete to want to go out searching for them, he tried to save the group in episode 3 from Carver and suffered from lack of sleep and food, he went after Sarah and stayed with her trying to get them out of the bad situation they were in, he acted as emotional support to rebecca when faced with Nick/Sarah's death. This is my opinion that I think he has done enough and I respect that your opinion is that he hasn't.
I agree, I know both are flawed and received hate from episode 4 which I don't really get, I think that they should both be forgiven and I don't really understand why Kenny has recieved more forgiveness than Luke, I can understand why people would be mad too but I can't understand why people could hate them both for being human and making a mistake but I guess every person is different and not everyone will see things the same
Sure I know that his mistake put them in danger but atleast he appologises, that is enough for me to forgive him, his mistake made me realise that even though he is a video game character he is human, I know not everyone can see things the same way so I get that people will be mad at him but I wish people would see that even if he is flawed we all are, every character in the game is even Clementine and Lee.
The only thing i have to say to that is... Haters gonna hate.
Because he left a bunch of people to die just because his hormones were in a twist.
Imagine if Carlos was alive, do you think that apology would mean anything? Your sorry, they're just words.
Sarah would've died in that trailer if it wasn't for Luke.
He hardly left them to die and I think it was more than about hormones. He's a grown man, not a teenager.