Okay but "success and money" don't equate to anything. If anything it makes the company even more disjointed. Telltale never expected The Walking Dead to blow up like it did. It was honestly the first time they were now a well-known successful company, and so many changes occurred. Funding, PR, Organisation, Staff, - The fact that the original writers left all made Telltale had to reform and change a lot, all whilst trying to create a game as good as their claimed "magnum opus".
I'm analyzing 2nd season now, step by step and believe me - it's painful. It's like a middle finger from TTG, no respect for a fan. That is … morewhy I'm harsh in my posts. Improve the game? I'm not professional writer. Can give few tips but that's all.
Yes, I was expecting good season. I believed. It was possible. They had success, they had money.
I thought this forum hates the fact that there was NO fanservice :
"Give Nick and Sarah a so-so death/ shouldn't have killed Luke/ the game… more shouldn't be so realistic with it's deaths cause it's based on zombie apocalypse which is not realistic AKA Give Sarah and Nick a so-so death/ Carver had so much potential, shouldn't have killed him off"
Like I said, I love Breckon and I have faith in him to write an amazing story worth the money like he did with Season 2, but without Lee and Clementine, which is what made Season 1 so successful, it doesn't matter who writes it, it just can't be beat. I still love Season 2 and will most likely love Season 3, but Season 1 is just unmatachable imo.
I haven't been on this forum too long and can already see S2 harbors a lot of negativity from posters here.
That is understandable of course and everyone has their own personal opinions. However, there is a fine line between constructive and destructive criticism. I feel when someone endlessly bashes something for the same, tired reasons it falls on the destructive side. Or if a person constantly ignores the positives of something that have been justified through valid reasoning and instead focuses just on the negatives to solely bash it. That is destructive criticism.
Now I have seen some of that here. Most posts do, however, iron out the reasoning for their negativity and justify it well. Is it too harsh? Maybe. As someone who aspires to be a writer it can often be challenging to write something everyone truly will enjoy...especially a sequel. So I can understand the difficulties TTG may have had while writing S2 and have learned to accept it for what it is. Flawed most definitely, but also most definitely well-written.
Nah. The large number of Tumblr fans hate Season 2 and speak far more critically of it than people do here. It even gets to a degree where I'm uncomfortable with the constant stream of negativity, which is saying a lot.
Nah. The large number of Tumblr fans hate Season 2 and speak far more critically of it than people do here. It even gets to a degree where I'm uncomfortable with the constant stream of negativity, which is saying a lot.
I had such hopes for All the characters that aren't named Clementine, because WE JUST KnOW how they were going to make it, and then my HOPES WERE DASHED, I never saw Luke's DEATH COMING OMG.
Nah. The large number of Tumblr fans hate Season 2 and speak far more critically of it than people do here. It even gets to a degree where I'm uncomfortable with the constant stream of negativity, which is saying a lot.
Was it anything, i can't think of anything that would say. You know what, this scene was well written, expect maybe a few Kenny speeches here and there, I didn't watch the Jane ending so i don't know. I know one thing is for sure, i can say there are so many obvious flaws in S2, either people are blind to it out of love or ignorance.
I haven't been on this forum too long and can already see S2 harbors a lot of negativity from posters here.
That is understandable of cou… morerse and everyone has their own personal opinions. However, there is a fine line between constructive and destructive criticism. I feel when someone endlessly bashes something for the same, tired reasons it falls on the destructive side. Or if a person constantly ignores the positives of something that have been justified through valid reasoning and instead focuses just on the negatives to solely bash it. That is destructive criticism.
Now I have seen some of that here. Most posts do, however, iron out the reasoning for their negativity and justify it well. Is it too harsh? Maybe. As someone who aspires to be a writer it can often be challenging to write something everyone truly will enjoy...especially a sequel. So I can understand the difficulties TTG may have had while writing S2 and have learned to a… [view original content]
Criticism is borne out of love - I want the things I have hope for to improve and be even better, because I see potential in them. Likewise, I feel disappointed when that potential is squandered. I wouldn't be nearly as critical of action-games like, er, Far Cry or Call of Duty because I see those as lost causes anyway.
There's still a lot I enjoy about the second season. The music, the beautiful color palette, the (underdeveloped) characters and the fact that you're put into the perspective of a vulnerable child. The execution of this story, however, is still irritating for numerous reasons - not least in that there's still too much lazy reliance on player memories of the first season for emotional effect. Token mentions of Lee and Kenny's family don't actually make me care more about what's happening to CLEM.
Okay, how about this: Telltale constantly bends what's "realistic" in order to keep their faves alive.
Kenny is capable of driving a car perfectly well despite losing an eye several days ago and having no depth perception. Clementine falls into a tumultuous river, into a freezing lake, gets shot in the shoulder, and not only does she survive these events, she's still got that damn hat like it's super-glued to her head. AJ survives through a seven day journey on what was allegedly one day's worth of formula.
On the other hand, debris magically appears to crush Sarah despite the fact she felt on top of it.
Telltale is fully capable of being unrealistic to keep characters alive.
Yeah, that's what I said, you guys want all the unique characters (in your opinion) to have a 'deserved' death, which could get unrealistic.… more Other than that your reply has so much exaggeration I'm not even going to comment on that. Now if the only thing you're going to reply me with is "Zombi apocalypse isn't realistic, so the story shouldn't realistic", then I'm not going to reply.
Criticism is borne out of love - I want the things I have hope for to improve and be even better, because I see potential in them. Likewise… more, I feel disappointed when that potential is squandered. I wouldn't be nearly as critical of action-games like, er, Far Cry or Call of Duty because I see those as lost causes anyway.
There's still a lot I enjoy about the second season. The music, the beautiful color palette, the (underdeveloped) characters and the fact that you're put into the perspective of a vulnerable child. The execution of this story, however, is still irritating for numerous reasons - not least in that there's still too much lazy reliance on player memories of the first season for emotional effect. Token mentions of Lee and Kenny's family don't actually make me care more about what's happening to CLEM.
What? You yourself just then admitted there is things you consider well-written about S2. I assure you I am not blinded out of "love or ignorance". I am also not blinded by nostalgia or disappointment over a few things. S2 had plenty of well-written scenes. There is a reason it got glowing reviews for most episodes and fanbases not from this forum praised (as well as criticized flaws) it for good writing.
I will say straight way that the entire setting of episode 1 in the woods is really well-written in my opinion. Not to mention I quite enjoyed how Carver's group were written and contrasted with the world before.
What was Well Written about S2?
Was it Luke's Death?
Was it Nick's Death?
Was it Sarah's Death?
Was it anything, i can't think o… moref anything that would say. You know what, this scene was well written, expect maybe a few Kenny speeches here and there, I didn't watch the Jane ending so i don't know. I know one thing is for sure, i can say there are so many obvious flaws in S2, either people are blind to it out of love or ignorance.
The trouble with Season 2 is people don't see it for what it is, a story about Clem surviving in a world without Lee. It's not about saving the Cabin group, it's not about Kenny, as much as it seems that way because he can be lost. it's about seeing if the world will break Clem. Will she stay true to what she was taught to be? Will she give into despair like Kenny or Sarah? Will she shut down and run away from herself like Jane? or wills he become a monster like Carver?
That was the entire point of it. it's why the ending has so much variety.
But the trip there WAS very hit and miss, did have a lot of strengths. (As underdeveloped as some of these characters were, and how sometimes they went off the rails a fair amount of them had strong or memorable moments.) Of course it had a lot of weaknesses too. To me the biggest problem was...the underdevelopment of the characters.
I just didn't care than some of them died sometimes, and I got sad when I found Chuck dead in season 1, and he was really, only along for a train ride.
Developers of every project must make the room for constructive criticism, it's a rare thing when the lack of something is more suprising than an exaggeration. Honestly you can't say that a game is flawless, you can't say the game is a completely garbage either. There are always some pros you can replace cons with, and the game is truly good when it's balanced enough.
Season 2 has many various reviews, which seems to be enough prove this game isn't straight up success, and you need to hold back and reflect on your own opinion.
Personaly, I think S2 was great and intense adventure, and S1 was the same.
I've never understood the criticism of TWD season 2. I loved it! The story was fantastic, I was just a bit annoyed that everyone I liked got killed....again! It wasn't as good as season 1 but it was still very, very good! It did however feel shorter than season 1
Criticism is borne out of love - I want the things I have hope for to improve and be even better, because I see potential in them. Likewise… more, I feel disappointed when that potential is squandered. I wouldn't be nearly as critical of action-games like, er, Far Cry or Call of Duty because I see those as lost causes anyway.
There's still a lot I enjoy about the second season. The music, the beautiful color palette, the (underdeveloped) characters and the fact that you're put into the perspective of a vulnerable child. The execution of this story, however, is still irritating for numerous reasons - not least in that there's still too much lazy reliance on player memories of the first season for emotional effect. Token mentions of Lee and Kenny's family don't actually make me care more about what's happening to CLEM.
The wasted potential of unique characters that are reduced to nothing but problematic plot devices, the ableist implications of constantly killing off disabled characters to illustrate their "weakness", the misogyny in constantly killing off female characters to fuel male angst, the fact that characters are killed off so often that it has little emotional value, the fact that characters are killed off and then new ones are cycled in to distract you from the fact that the original characters had no proper ending to their plot arcs, introducing a gay couple to seem "progressive" only to kill them off in the same episode they're introduced, the way Christa was dropped from the plot with so many loose ends, the way Luke patronizes Nick and the fact we can never address it, Kenny returning and repeating his arc from season 1, the bizarre and out of character ending given to Bonnie, Kenny being written as a "rabid dog that needed to be put down", the wasted potential of Howe's, the out of character and disappointing cameos given to the 400 Days characters, Kenny vs. Jane, and Jane's entire existence in general.
I honestly believe Season Two's cons outweigh the pros. I can enjoy the music, the look, and the envirometns. But when it comes to the actual storytelling, the game is completely unbelievable. With every episode the game gets more and more ridiculus with the story, but as it goes on I think the music improves.
I believe the game deserves its criticism, the developers need to improve on what made Season two fall apart. I will say though, I did enjoy playing the game even though I hate on it a lot.
it didn't win no game of the year awards,there was much controversy about characters,writers..or lack of ,plot,script, but overall i really enjoyed it,it felt a mish mash of games ,was it the cabin groups story? or clementines? or kennys redemption? a lot of things worked a lot of things didn't.
The wasted potential of unique characters that are reduced to nothing but problematic plot devices, the ableist implications of constantly k… moreilling off disabled characters to illustrate their "weakness", the misogyny in constantly killing off female characters to fuel male angst, the fact that characters are killed off so often that it has little emotional value, the fact that characters are killed off and then new ones are cycled in to distract you from the fact that the original characters had no proper ending to their plot arcs, introducing a gay couple to seem "progressive" only to kill them off in the same episode they're introduced, the way Christa was dropped from the plot with so many loose ends, the way Luke patronizes Nick and the fact we can never address it, Kenny returning and repeating his arc from season 1, the bizarre and out of character ending given to Bonnie, Kenny being written as a "rabid dog that needed to be put down", t… [view original content]
Maybe? I don't know, I think the complainers just want Telltale to get better instead of worse when it comes to writing characters and telling tales, cause I don't think TWD S2 is their best work.
The wasted potential of unique characters that are reduced to nothing but problematic plot devices, the ableist implications of constantly k… moreilling off disabled characters to illustrate their "weakness", the misogyny in constantly killing off female characters to fuel male angst, the fact that characters are killed off so often that it has little emotional value, the fact that characters are killed off and then new ones are cycled in to distract you from the fact that the original characters had no proper ending to their plot arcs, introducing a gay couple to seem "progressive" only to kill them off in the same episode they're introduced, the way Christa was dropped from the plot with so many loose ends, the way Luke patronizes Nick and the fact we can never address it, Kenny returning and repeating his arc from season 1, the bizarre and out of character ending given to Bonnie, Kenny being written as a "rabid dog that needed to be put down", t… [view original content]
I believe the criticism towards TWD: Season 2 is getting a bit redundant. I am pretty sure that TellTale knows that 1) while getting mostly positive reviews overall, the most dedicated fans of the series were somewhat disappointed, 2) knows what the dedicated fans didn't like and what they want for TWD: Season 3, and 3) are bummed out themselves because they made a game that wasn't even nominated for an award (I maybe incorrect here, but I don't remember any award nominations for TWD: S2). Repeating the displeasure isn't helping the situation. This side of the forums should be filled with threads for fan/community-made stories and discussions of ideas for what we want to see. I have in other threads expressed ideas and themes I think TellTale could use for season 3 for both situations where Clem is or isn't the PC. While too much fan-service can have negative side effects (TWD: Season 2), it does help TellTale know what we want to see. I say instead of us scolding TellTale for spilling milk, we should state how we think they should clean it up and what they should do to prevent future accidents. Like I said, I have stated ides, but I'm to tired to state all of them. I'm sure TellTale saw them back on those threads when they were active and took note along with the other ideas.
Comments
Okay but "success and money" don't equate to anything. If anything it makes the company even more disjointed. Telltale never expected The Walking Dead to blow up like it did. It was honestly the first time they were now a well-known successful company, and so many changes occurred. Funding, PR, Organisation, Staff, - The fact that the original writers left all made Telltale had to reform and change a lot, all whilst trying to create a game as good as their claimed "magnum opus".
There was a ridiculous amount of fanservice towards Kenny and arguably Clementine herself.
The writers were obsessed with season one characters such that 2/3 of the people who survive to the final scenes are from season one.
I really doubt that :P
You guys say like it's a fact. Stop thinking that way.
Like I said, I love Breckon and I have faith in him to write an amazing story worth the money like he did with Season 2, but without Lee and Clementine, which is what made Season 1 so successful, it doesn't matter who writes it, it just can't be beat. I still love Season 2 and will most likely love Season 3, but Season 1 is just unmatachable imo.
I haven't been on this forum too long and can already see S2 harbors a lot of negativity from posters here.
That is understandable of course and everyone has their own personal opinions. However, there is a fine line between constructive and destructive criticism. I feel when someone endlessly bashes something for the same, tired reasons it falls on the destructive side. Or if a person constantly ignores the positives of something that have been justified through valid reasoning and instead focuses just on the negatives to solely bash it. That is destructive criticism.
Now I have seen some of that here. Most posts do, however, iron out the reasoning for their negativity and justify it well. Is it too harsh? Maybe. As someone who aspires to be a writer it can often be challenging to write something everyone truly will enjoy...especially a sequel. So I can understand the difficulties TTG may have had while writing S2 and have learned to accept it for what it is. Flawed most definitely, but also most definitely well-written.
What sort of complaints do they have?
Nah. The large number of Tumblr fans hate Season 2 and speak far more critically of it than people do here. It even gets to a degree where I'm uncomfortable with the constant stream of negativity, which is saying a lot.
What heartbreak?
It felt pretty predictable.
I had such hopes for All the characters that aren't named Clementine, because WE JUST KnOW how they were going to make it, and then my HOPES WERE DASHED, I never saw Luke's DEATH COMING OMG.
What are their main complaints about season 2, out of curiosity?
What was Well Written about S2?
Was it Luke's Death?
Was it Nick's Death?
Was it Sarah's Death?
Was it anything, i can't think of anything that would say. You know what, this scene was well written, expect maybe a few Kenny speeches here and there, I didn't watch the Jane ending so i don't know. I know one thing is for sure, i can say there are so many obvious flaws in S2, either people are blind to it out of love or ignorance.
Criticism is borne out of love - I want the things I have hope for to improve and be even better, because I see potential in them. Likewise, I feel disappointed when that potential is squandered. I wouldn't be nearly as critical of action-games like, er, Far Cry or Call of Duty because I see those as lost causes anyway.
There's still a lot I enjoy about the second season. The music, the beautiful color palette, the (underdeveloped) characters and the fact that you're put into the perspective of a vulnerable child. The execution of this story, however, is still irritating for numerous reasons - not least in that there's still too much lazy reliance on player memories of the first season for emotional effect. Token mentions of Lee and Kenny's family don't actually make me care more about what's happening to CLEM.
Okay, how about this: Telltale constantly bends what's "realistic" in order to keep their faves alive.
Kenny is capable of driving a car perfectly well despite losing an eye several days ago and having no depth perception. Clementine falls into a tumultuous river, into a freezing lake, gets shot in the shoulder, and not only does she survive these events, she's still got that damn hat like it's super-glued to her head. AJ survives through a seven day journey on what was allegedly one day's worth of formula.
On the other hand, debris magically appears to crush Sarah despite the fact she felt on top of it.
Telltale is fully capable of being unrealistic to keep characters alive.
take my like. We often don't agree, but its nice that once in a while we can agree on a few things.
What? You yourself just then admitted there is things you consider well-written about S2. I assure you I am not blinded out of "love or ignorance". I am also not blinded by nostalgia or disappointment over a few things. S2 had plenty of well-written scenes. There is a reason it got glowing reviews for most episodes and fanbases not from this forum praised (as well as criticized flaws) it for good writing.
I will say straight way that the entire setting of episode 1 in the woods is really well-written in my opinion. Not to mention I quite enjoyed how Carver's group were written and contrasted with the world before.
The trouble with Season 2 is people don't see it for what it is, a story about Clem surviving in a world without Lee. It's not about saving the Cabin group, it's not about Kenny, as much as it seems that way because he can be lost. it's about seeing if the world will break Clem. Will she stay true to what she was taught to be? Will she give into despair like Kenny or Sarah? Will she shut down and run away from herself like Jane? or wills he become a monster like Carver?
That was the entire point of it. it's why the ending has so much variety.
But the trip there WAS very hit and miss, did have a lot of strengths. (As underdeveloped as some of these characters were, and how sometimes they went off the rails a fair amount of them had strong or memorable moments.) Of course it had a lot of weaknesses too. To me the biggest problem was...the underdevelopment of the characters.
I just didn't care than some of them died sometimes, and I got sad when I found Chuck dead in season 1, and he was really, only along for a train ride.
And i wanted to.
Developers of every project must make the room for constructive criticism, it's a rare thing when the lack of something is more suprising than an exaggeration. Honestly you can't say that a game is flawless, you can't say the game is a completely garbage either. There are always some pros you can replace cons with, and the game is truly good when it's balanced enough.
Season 2 has many various reviews, which seems to be enough prove this game isn't straight up success, and you need to hold back and reflect on your own opinion.
Personaly, I think S2 was great and intense adventure, and S1 was the same.
Same here.
CrazyGeorgexBokor
I ship it.
I've never understood the criticism of TWD season 2. I loved it! The story was fantastic, I was just a bit annoyed that everyone I liked got killed....again! It wasn't as good as season 1 but it was still very, very good! It did however feel shorter than season 1
Well said.
There's a reason we haven't jumped ship. We LIKE the game and we WANT to see it live up to the potential we know it has.
The wasted potential of unique characters that are reduced to nothing but problematic plot devices, the ableist implications of constantly killing off disabled characters to illustrate their "weakness", the misogyny in constantly killing off female characters to fuel male angst, the fact that characters are killed off so often that it has little emotional value, the fact that characters are killed off and then new ones are cycled in to distract you from the fact that the original characters had no proper ending to their plot arcs, introducing a gay couple to seem "progressive" only to kill them off in the same episode they're introduced, the way Christa was dropped from the plot with so many loose ends, the way Luke patronizes Nick and the fact we can never address it, Kenny returning and repeating his arc from season 1, the bizarre and out of character ending given to Bonnie, Kenny being written as a "rabid dog that needed to be put down", the wasted potential of Howe's, the out of character and disappointing cameos given to the 400 Days characters, Kenny vs. Jane, and Jane's entire existence in general.
To name a few.
I honestly believe Season Two's cons outweigh the pros. I can enjoy the music, the look, and the envirometns. But when it comes to the actual storytelling, the game is completely unbelievable. With every episode the game gets more and more ridiculus with the story, but as it goes on I think the music improves.
I believe the game deserves its criticism, the developers need to improve on what made Season two fall apart. I will say though, I did enjoy playing the game even though I hate on it a lot.
it didn't win no game of the year awards,there was much controversy about characters,writers..or lack of
,plot,script, but overall i really enjoyed it,it felt a mish mash of games ,was it the cabin groups story? or clementines? or kennys redemption? a lot of things worked a lot of things didn't.
I agree with 90% of them to be honest.
Yeah, me too. I think they tend to go a little overboard with the Jane hate, though.
i personally think season 2 was better then season 1.
That makes a lot of sense. After reading that it seems the game could have been an awful lot better, but it was still very good in my opinion
I believe the criticism towards TWD: Season 2 is getting a bit redundant. I am pretty sure that TellTale knows that 1) while getting mostly positive reviews overall, the most dedicated fans of the series were somewhat disappointed, 2) knows what the dedicated fans didn't like and what they want for TWD: Season 3, and 3) are bummed out themselves because they made a game that wasn't even nominated for an award (I maybe incorrect here, but I don't remember any award nominations for TWD: S2). Repeating the displeasure isn't helping the situation. This side of the forums should be filled with threads for fan/community-made stories and discussions of ideas for what we want to see. I have in other threads expressed ideas and themes I think TellTale could use for season 3 for both situations where Clem is or isn't the PC. While too much fan-service can have negative side effects (TWD: Season 2), it does help TellTale know what we want to see. I say instead of us scolding TellTale for spilling milk, we should state how we think they should clean it up and what they should do to prevent future accidents. Like I said, I have stated ides, but I'm to tired to state all of them. I'm sure TellTale saw them back on those threads when they were active and took note along with the other ideas.
Still a better love story than Kenny X Sarita.
It appears you have a typo there Bokor, and you wrote Kenny x Sarita instead of Kenny x Boat.
I would have agreed that we were too hard on it. Until episode 4 came around.
I don't think I've ever seen Jane hate that isn't at least slightly overboard.
You're right, I did have a typo. I meant to say Saltlick X Larry.
Oh good, because for a second there I thought you said Clementine x Juicebox.