You're contradicting yourself, you just earlier said that:
Fetus and the Fetus doesn't have a brain so it shouldn't and doesn't have a choice.
But then after I said that they do from the early beginning you just say that it's not human, without any explanation to why I'm wrong whatsoever, you see why that's a problem?
Just because you say "still fetus" does not mean it's not a human being, it is a human being and if you want to disprove it, bring me an article of someone experienced enough to make such a grandiose statement.
You don't either.
Exactly, that's why we don't have the right to interfere and take the baby's life, because it has a right to live and decide what to do with their life.
If one doesn't know the outcome, one must not intervene in the way of nature like that, to say that you save the baby a life of pain and suffering is basically just making a wild guess, because it might live a happy life and you might have taken that from him.
You don't understand that they shouldn't be forced to deal with a little parasite feeding off of them, a fetus is a parasite if you don't want it.
A fetus is a human being and your feelings towards the "biological creature" inside your body does not magically change its status.
If you were a woman and you got raped, would you seriously go through so much pain as a constant reminder of an already horrible experience?
I know I will never be able to truly give an honest answer since I'm male, but theoretically, I'd like to believe that yes, I would.
It doesn't matter either way, because again, the pain and suffering one goes through in pregnancy does not mean that they can just throw a human into the trashcan.
Ultrasounds show that an embryo can suck his thumb starting the age of 8 weeks, react to physical contact and respond to sounds, already has… more all existing organs, the brain thinks, the heart beats, the liver produces blood cells, kidneys clear fluid and already has a fingerprint. Most abortions are performed after the eighth week.
Still just a fetus, not a human.
You don't know what will the fetus turn out to be, there are too many fetuses that survive abortions and live a happy life now, as well as orphans.
You don't either.
Just because it's a mistake does not mean the baby deserves to get his life taken away, and if the parents can't deal wit ha baby, they can send it for adoption.
You don't understand that they shouldn't be forced to deal with a little parasite feeding off of them, a fetus is a parasite if you don't want it. If you were a woman and you got raped, would you seriously go through so much pain as a constant reminder of an already horrible experience?
Just because you say "still fetus" does not mean it's not a human being, it is a human being and if you want to disprove it, bring me an article of someone experienced enough to make such a grandiose statement.
I'm not going to google a damn article to win an argument I don't even give a shit about on a video game Forum.
Exactly, that's why we don't have the right to interfere and take the baby's life, because it has a right to live and decide what to do with their life.
So yes, let us ruin a living woman's life. Great job!
A fetus is a human being and your feelings towards the "biological creature" inside your body does not magically change its status.
It is not a human and just because you say it is doesn't mean it is. Just because you bring up articles of it turning human doesn't make it human in the womb.
I know I will never be able to truly give an honest answer since I'm male, but theoretically, I'd like to believe that yes, I would.
Exactly you can't, you don't know the pain that comes with it.
It doesn't matter either way, because again, the pain and suffering one goes through in pregnancy does not mean that they can just throw a human into the trashcan.
They're going to throw it away later when it's actually human anyway...If they don't want it, they're not going to keep it. Oh but yes let it be born, let is actually experience pain and a shitty life.
I don't know why you keep responding, we're not going to change each others mind and I don't give a shit. You're wasting your time.
You're contradicting yourself, you just earlier said that:
Fetus and the Fetus doesn't have a brain so it shouldn't and doesn't have a… more choice.
But then after I said that they do from the early beginning you just say that it's not human, without any explanation to why I'm wrong whatsoever, you see why that's a problem?
Just because you say "still fetus" does not mean it's not a human being, it is a human being and if you want to disprove it, bring me an article of someone experienced enough to make such a grandiose statement.
You don't either.
Exactly, that's why we don't have the right to interfere and take the baby's life, because it has a right to live and decide what to do with their life.
If one doesn't know the outcome, one must not intervene in the way of nature like that, to say that you save the baby a life of pain and suffering is basically just making a wild guess, because it might live a happy life… [view original content]
I think a woman should be allowed to have an abortion regardless of the situation. It's her body; she shouldn't be forced to give birth to a kid if she doesn't want to. And it's kinda weird to hear guys talk about their stance on the matter, especially if it's the pro-life stance, whenever it's not their body being thrown into a political debate.
I'm not going to google a damn article to win an argument I don't even give a shit about on a video game Forum.
Hey, it's your choice, it just means that until you disprove what I said, there's not other option but coming to terms with the fact that the information I supplied is in fact the truth (that is unless you're willing to prove me wrong).
So yes, let us ruin a living woman's life. Great job!
Giving birth to a child doesn't ruin a woman's life, and it sure has less of a possibility to do that then actually killing a human.
It is not a human and just because you say it is doesn't mean it is. Just because you bring up articles of it turning human doesn't make it human in the womb.
I don't know what to say, I gave you all the information you need to know, yet you insist on your opinion, I don't say things that I can't back up, and if I do I admit my mistake.
Exactly you can't, you don't know the pain that comes with it.
Yep, but it's either that pain or taking away any possibility of life.
They're going to throw it away later when it's actually human anyway...
But not into a trashcan, they will give it to a human couple who wants to raise a baby.
Just because you say "still fetus" does not mean it's not a human being, it is a human being and if you want to disprove it, bring me an art… moreicle of someone experienced enough to make such a grandiose statement.
I'm not going to google a damn article to win an argument I don't even give a shit about on a video game Forum.
Exactly, that's why we don't have the right to interfere and take the baby's life, because it has a right to live and decide what to do with their life.
So yes, let us ruin a living woman's life. Great job!
A fetus is a human being and your feelings towards the "biological creature" inside your body does not magically change its status.
It is not a human and just because you say it is doesn't mean it is. Just because you bring up articles of it turning human doesn't make it human in the womb.
I know I will never be able to truly give an honest answer since I'm male, but theoretically,… [view original content]
How is that fair to the child though..? Killing the unborn born baby just because of the undesirable circumstances that led to the pregnancy is still not acceptable in my opinion. Obviously it would be difficult for the mother to go through with the pregnancy, but this does not justify robbing someone of their chance to live.
Giving birth to a child doesn't ruin a woman's life, and it sure has less of a possibility to do that then actually killing a human.
...Are...Are...You know what you don't even know.
But not into a trashcan, they will give it to a human couple who wants to raise a baby.
How do you know?
Not at all, I love debating
Then you're wasting my time, I'm done with this little argument, believe what you want, I just hope you see the truth one day and don't force people into more pain than they have to.
I'm not going to google a damn article to win an argument I don't even give a shit about on a video game Forum.
Hey, it's your choic… moree, it just means that until you disprove what I said, there's not other option but coming to terms with the fact that the information I supplied is in fact the truth (that is unless you're willing to prove me wrong).
So yes, let us ruin a living woman's life. Great job!
Giving birth to a child doesn't ruin a woman's life, and it sure has less of a possibility to do that then actually killing a human.
It is not a human and just because you say it is doesn't mean it is. Just because you bring up articles of it turning human doesn't make it human in the womb.
I don't know what to say, I gave you all the information you need to know, yet you insist on your opinion, I don't say things that I can't back up, and if I do I admit my mistake.
Exactly you can't, you don't know the p… [view original content]
Giving birth to a child doesn't ruin a woman's life, and it sure has less of a possibility to do that then actually killing a human.
… more ...Are...Are...You know what you don't even know.
But not into a trashcan, they will give it to a human couple who wants to raise a baby.
How do you know?
Not at all, I love debating
Then you're wasting my time, I'm done with this little argument, believe what you want, I just hope you see the truth one day and don't force people into more pain than they have to.
...Are...Are...You know what you don't even know.
What.
How do you know?
Because when people give birth to a baby, the… morey either give it away or keep it.
I just hope you see the truth one day
The truth is objective, I feel like your arguments are too subjective to be truth, but alright.
The whole idea of the mother being able to do whatever she wants with the baby just because "it's her own body and she can do whatever she wants with her own body" is seriously such a cop out argument. Yes, it's her own body, but why on earth are we using that logic and ignoring the actual life in question (the life of the baby)? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If the mother's own life isn't being threatened by the pregnancy, there is no morally acceptable reason for robbing the unborn baby of their chance to live.
Being completely honest, abortion sickens me, and I think it's crazy how readily accessible the procedure is.
I think it should depend on the situation, for example in cases of rape, inbreeding, mothers life in danger, or if their younger than 16 should be allowed to have the option to have one.
And it's kinda weird to hear guys talk about their stance on the matter, especially if it's the pro-life stance, whenever it's not their body being thrown into a political debate.
I'll admit that I feel a little self conscious about it, but guys should be able to voice their opinions on this subject without any issue, regardless of the fact that they obviously will never have to physically deal with pregnancy itself.
I think a woman should be allowed to have an abortion regardless of the situation. It's her body; she shouldn't be forced to give birth to a… more kid if she doesn't want to. And it's kinda weird to hear guys talk about their stance on the matter, especially if it's the pro-life stance, whenever it's not their body being thrown into a political debate.
Doesn't that go both ways? The chances that a person would be incontrovertibly helpful in such things as you mentioned (cancer research, remarkable inventor, one in a million theorist, etc) is much less than the chances they would be detrimental to the overall welfare of the people around them (especially when looking at the statistics Sara posted).
The whole idea of the mother being able to do whatever she wants with the baby just because "it's her own body and she can do whatever she w… moreants with her own body" is seriously such a cop out argument. Yes, it's her own body, but why on earth are we using that logic and ignoring the actual life in question (the life of the baby)? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If the mother's own life isn't being threatened by the pregnancy, there is no morally acceptable reason for robbing the unborn baby of their chance to live.
Being completely honest, abortion sickens me, and I think it's crazy how readily accessible the procedure is.
I find it entertaining you are so excited about someone agreeing with your stance, like it's a grand accomplishment to have others who see the situation the same way you do. Especially under the circumstances of a rather two sided argument where people really only have two choices on their plate to begin with. If you have a choice between chicken or pork chops and you pick one, then odds are you're going to have others who picked the same way you have. Sorry, I just found this really funny and had to give my two cents
I find it entertaining you are so excited about someone agreeing with your stance, like it's a grand accomplishment to have others who see t… morehe situation the same way you do. Especially under the circumstances of a rather two sided argument where people really only have two choices on their plate to begin with. If you have a choice between chicken or pork chops and you pick one, then odds are you're going to have others who picked the same way you have. Sorry, I just found this really funny and had to give my two cents
I just feel happy to see I'm not the only one who thinks a certain way, everyone just wants to feel like they belong somewhere and identify with others, I don't see what's funny in it lol
And I don't think it's like picking food because while I can't prove to you porkchops are better than chicken (since it's your taste and I can't change it), I can give you what I have to say on this topic, and I feel like I make my point very clear, but I guess it's too hard convincing someone about this topic so maybe it is a little like food haha
I find it entertaining you are so excited about someone agreeing with your stance, like it's a grand accomplishment to have others who see t… morehe situation the same way you do. Especially under the circumstances of a rather two sided argument where people really only have two choices on their plate to begin with. If you have a choice between chicken or pork chops and you pick one, then odds are you're going to have others who picked the same way you have. Sorry, I just found this really funny and had to give my two cents
Looking at the comments pro and anti sentiments seem rather evenly distributed.
Would you choose pork chops or chicken? If you would say chicken then:
EXACTLY! THANK YOU!
Dancing Link(?) GIF
Just seemed, to me, like he felt having you agree with him was... extremely advantageous, or something. (Perhaps "advantageous" wasn't the best word... I'll ponder that question for awhile :P )
I reacted that way because the answer to this topic seems very easy to understand for me, and Belan is a smart guy who doesn't spit things out for no reason, so I didn't feel in the dark about it and was happy
Looking at the comments pro and anti sentiments seem rather evenly distributed.
Would you choose pork chops or chicken? If you would say … morechicken then:
EXACTLY! THANK YOU!
Dancing Link(?) GIF
Just seemed, to me, like he felt having you agree with him was... extremely advantageous, or something. (Perhaps "advantageous" wasn't the best word... I'll ponder that question for awhile :P )
Most people wouldn't be so eccentric for having one who thinks the same way they do when there are plenty of other people who think the same way, even in the exact same spot (this comment section). They may try to support each other's claims, but in the middle of a discussion it's not often that something takes place nearly equivalent to a "high five" of acceptance. At least, not in my experiences.
It's actually quite comparable to picking one of the two foods. The severity of the matter not so much, but the comparison between picking one or the either, yes.
I just feel happy to see I'm not the only one who thinks a certain way, everyone just wants to feel like they belong somewhere and identify … morewith others, I don't see what's funny in it lol
And I don't think it's like picking food because while I can't prove to you porkchops are better than chicken (since it's your taste and I can't change it), I can give you what I have to say on this topic, and I feel like I make my point very clear, but I guess it's too hard convincing someone about this topic so maybe it is a little like food haha
Most people wouldn't be so eccentric for having one who thinks the same way they do when there are plenty of other people who think the same… more way, even in the exact same spot (this comment section). They may try to support each other's claims, but in the middle of a discussion it's not often that something takes place nearly equivalent to a "high five" of acceptance. At least, not in my experiences.
It's actually quite comparable to picking one of the two foods. The severity of the matter not so much, but the comparison between picking one or the either, yes.
Well, what can I say, I found it nice that someone thinks the same way I do and expressed it in a comment.
I actually saw a lot of people do that in my time here.
I reacted that way because the answer to this topic seems very easy to understand for me, and Belan is a smart guy who doesn't spit things out for no reason, so I didn't feel in the dark about it and was happy
Yes she is. The only thing that labels that thing as human is DNA, and my mole has that. The only "life" in question is the life of the mother, and how it will be affected by having or not having the abortion, it then falls into her hands whether she feels it's right or wrong to give birth. No one can, or should, decide that for her.
The fetus/unborn baby/ whatever else you would want to call it is absolutely affected. It's being aborted/terminated. It's opportunity to live is being stolen. Regardless of how you want to define what is living and not living, by aborting the baby you are stealing it's opportunity to live. So again, the mother is not the only one being affected here, as the action of aborting the pregnancy clearly dictates what is to happen to the life in question. Considering this, it should not solely be up to the mother to decide how she wants to handle the pregnancy.
Yes she is. The only thing that labels that thing as human is DNA, and my mole has that. The only "life" in question is the life of the moth… moreer, and how it will be affected by having or not having the abortion, it then falls into her hands whether she feels it's right or wrong to give birth. No one can, or should, decide that for her.
Affected is one of those words. You can affect the air, or a rock, they are not living. Neither is the clump of cells. The mother is the only one who is being affected on a level beyond that of moving the placement and arrangement of a group of atoms. It is not a life in question, the only life in question is that of the mother.
The fetus is not living, the mother is, and there is no reason to lower the "value" of the woman's life (in her eyes, by either forcing her to have the child, or forcing her to remove the fetus in a less safe way) for something that is not living.
The fetus/unborn baby/ whatever else you would want to call it is absolutely affected. It's being aborted/terminated. It's opportunity to li… moreve is being stolen. Regardless of how you want to define what is living and not living, by aborting the baby you are stealing it's opportunity to live. So again, the mother is not the only one being affected here, as the action of aborting the pregnancy clearly dictates what is to happen to the life in question. Considering this, it should not solely be up to the mother to decide how she wants to handle the pregnancy.
I am pro life. I believe the ability to bring life into the world is one of the most beautiful things a woman can do. It's our duty when we become mothers to protect, nurture and love our children. Especially in the womb, because they don't have a voice yet, they can't fend for themselves, they depend on us completely. To look at your own child as a mistake to get rid of like trash just because the timing is off or they weren't conceived in the way you wanted..I can't even fathom it. That's your own flesh and blood, your own little girl/boy. The way I see it, the moment you have sex, you're accepting all the possible repercussions that come with it. If you're mature enough to have sex, than you're mature enough to have a baby. That's just how it is. The "my body my choice" argument is honestly so damn selfish, it's not just about your body anymore, there's another life and body to consider now. Yes, the baby wasn't planned, but is 9 months, not even a fraction of your life, really such an unbearable inconvenience? Is it really asking too much of you to give another person a chance at life in exchange for a few months? I'll say it again, it's beyond selfish to only think of how it's going to affect you and your life without even remotely considering your baby's. A life in the womb is just as valuable as a life outside of the womb. If you're reckless enough to have sex without protection, then take responsibility, don't take it out on an innocent life. It's not their fault you didn't use protection. If you don't want kids, use a condom or take birth control, it's really not that hard. If you don't have either on hand, then keep it in your pants until you do. And as controversial as it is, same goes for pregnancy by rape. It's still not the baby's fault that they were conceived in that way, murdering them isn't going to lessen the pain and suffering caused by your rapist. Two wrongs don't make a right. If you still don't want your own child because of the unfortunate circumstances they were conceived in, then give the baby up for adoption, there are plenty of infertile couples who desperately want a child and would give the baby the love they deserve.
Bottom line, there should never be any pride, encouragement or support in taking the life of someone who hasn't even left the womb, robbing them of their only chance to live for such selfish reasons. They're innocent, they've done nothing wrong, they don't deserve to die just because "you aren't ready yet" and won't take responsibility for the consequences of your actions. Call the baby a fetus if you want, say they're just a bunch of cells, that they're an unwelcome parasite, that you're too young to be a mother, that 9 months was asking too much, that you don't have the funds to support a baby etc. Go on, tell all the lies, and make all the excuses you want to help yourself feel better so you can sleep at night, for no amount of lying or twisting of the truth will take away the fact that you are condoning murder, that you have murdered your own child. Words cannot express how disgusting, immoral and inhumane abortion is in my eyes. To wrap this post up, I'd like to share one of my favorite quotes which I believe encompasses the sheer hypocrisy of the pro choice movement.
"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."- Ronald Reagan
I didn't mean to up vote your responses, but oh well.
If a woman doesn't feel she is ready to raise a child, I'm sorry, but I think she has every right to get an abortion. It's her body. You may not like that statement, but it's the simple truth. In fact, if I'm going to be completely honest, I think it's selfish to force a woman to go through the excruciating process of labor to give birth to a child she never wanted. Given to adoption or not, that's basically using the mother as nothing more than a vessel. Anyway, that's all I have to say on the matter. I will always be pro-choice, and none of the "murder" guilt-tripping will change that.
If a woman doesn't feel she is ready to raise a child, I'm sorry, but I think she has every right to get an abortion.
She doesn't have to raise the child, she can give her child up for adoption. Surely that would be the better alternative to straight up killing it/ robbing it of a chance to live simply because she doesn't feel that she is personally ready to raise said child.
It's her body. You may not like that statement, but it's the simple truth.
Of course it's her body. This fact doesn't really change anything. "The whole idea of the mother being able to do whatever she wants with the baby just because "it's her own body and she can do whatever she wants with her own body" is seriously such a cop out argument. Yes, it's her own body, but why on earth are we using that logic and ignoring the actual life in question (the life of the baby)? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If the mother's own life isn't being threatened by the pregnancy, there is no morally acceptable reason for robbing the unborn baby of their chance to live." (Quoted from one of my other posts in this thread)
In fact, if I'm going to be completely honest, I think it's selfish to force a woman to go through the excruciating process of labor to give birth to a child she never wanted.
Well, if we're going to talk about selfishness, then I think we should look at the fact that a woman going through with an abortion is being selfish, and in a much more extreme fashion. She is denying someone the chance to live because of her own selfish reasoning. That's pretty screwed up.
It isn't selfish to stop something immoral from happening. (Yes, I feel that killing unborn children is immoral)
Given to adoption or not, that's basically using the mother as nothing more than a vessel.
Well, that's kind of what she is.
I will always be pro-choice, and none of the "murder" guilt-tripping will change that.
It's not really guilt tripping at all, though I could see someone going that route. There is really no refuting the fact that abortion is the process of robbing an unborn child of their chance to live, and the reasons for doing so are more often than not pure garbage and are entirely unfair to the life in question. It kind of sounds like you're wanting to be stubborn here
I see no legitimate arguments that can justify abortion, and it kind of sickens me that such a process is legal.
I didn't mean to up vote your responses, but oh well.
If a woman doesn't feel she is ready to raise a child, I'm sorry, but I think she h… moreas every right to get an abortion. It's her body. You may not like that statement, but it's the simple truth. In fact, if I'm going to be completely honest, I think it's selfish to force a woman to go through the excruciating process of labor to give birth to a child she never wanted. Given to adoption or not, that's basically using the mother as nothing more than a vessel. Anyway, that's all I have to say on the matter. I will always be pro-choice, and none of the "murder" guilt-tripping will change that.
Affected is one of those words. You can affect the air, or a rock, they are not living. Neither is the clump of cells. The mother is the only one who is being affected on a level beyond that of moving the placement and arrangement of a group of atoms. It is not a life in question, the only life in question is that of the mother
This isn't a parallel comparison, as the things that you listed are what they are. They aren't going to change, and they are not sentient. We're talking about the potential to live here, regardless of how you personally want to define life. The fact doesn't change that if you were to do nothing about the pregnancy, a human being would be born. So it seems rather illogical to just wave the argument away and insist that no one is being affected other than the mother when that isn't truly the case. You're still depriving a human being of the chance to live, so clearly you are having an affect on it.
The fetus is not living, the mother is, and there is no reason to lower the "value" of the woman's life (in her eyes, by either forcing her to have the child, or forcing her to remove the fetus in a less safe way) for something that is not living.
As I explained above, it doesn't matter how you personally want to define "living", the act of abortion still affects another human being's chance at life. That is irrefutable. If the fetus were left to naturally progress, it would be born into the world, free to live it's life. You're still extinguishing life by going through with the process of abortion. You're actively preventing someone from being born. Lowering the "value" of life for the woman in question isn't really a legitimate and fair argument when the alternative is totally removing all value of life in regards to the unborn child. The more and more we dissect the arguments for pro-choice, the more we see how selfish and unfair the choice of abortion really is.
Affected is one of those words. You can affect the air, or a rock, they are not living. Neither is the clump of cells. The mother is the onl… morey one who is being affected on a level beyond that of moving the placement and arrangement of a group of atoms. It is not a life in question, the only life in question is that of the mother.
The fetus is not living, the mother is, and there is no reason to lower the "value" of the woman's life (in her eyes, by either forcing her to have the child, or forcing her to remove the fetus in a less safe way) for something that is not living.
I'm a guy. So my answer to that question is logically that it isn't my place to make a choice like that. If a woman wants to abort a fetus she has no intention of raising or taking care of, why not? People get so caught up in the morality of it that they don't realize that some woman aren't parenting material.
Now, if a woman is in a relationship with another person. I'd hope the woman would address her significant other about her interest in aborting. The statistic that disgusts me is that a lot of "women" (which I use that term in this situation loosely) will cheat on their husband or boyfriend, get knocked up, and doesn't knows who's it is. So, without telling their spouse, just go and abort the fetus without any recourse. Now that's fucked up.
I'm a guy. So my answer to that question is logically that it isn't my place to make a choice like that. If a woman wants to abort a fetus s… morehe has no intention of raising or taking care of, why not? People get so caught up in the morality of it that they don't realize that some woman aren't parenting material.
Now, if a woman is in a relationship with another person. I'd hope the woman would address her significant other about her interest in aborting. The statistic that disgusts me is that a lot of "women" (which I use that term in this situation loosely) will cheat on their husband or boyfriend, get knocked up, and doesn't knows who's it is. So, without telling their spouse, just go and abort the fetus without any recourse. Now that's fucked up.
Comments
You're contradicting yourself, you just earlier said that:
But then after I said that they do from the early beginning you just say that it's not human, without any explanation to why I'm wrong whatsoever, you see why that's a problem?
Just because you say "still fetus" does not mean it's not a human being, it is a human being and if you want to disprove it, bring me an article of someone experienced enough to make such a grandiose statement.
Exactly, that's why we don't have the right to interfere and take the baby's life, because it has a right to live and decide what to do with their life.
If one doesn't know the outcome, one must not intervene in the way of nature like that, to say that you save the baby a life of pain and suffering is basically just making a wild guess, because it might live a happy life and you might have taken that from him.
A fetus is a human being and your feelings towards the "biological creature" inside your body does not magically change its status.
I know I will never be able to truly give an honest answer since I'm male, but theoretically, I'd like to believe that yes, I would.
It doesn't matter either way, because again, the pain and suffering one goes through in pregnancy does not mean that they can just throw a human into the trashcan.
I'm not going to google a damn article to win an argument I don't even give a shit about on a video game Forum.
So yes, let us ruin a living woman's life. Great job!
It is not a human and just because you say it is doesn't mean it is. Just because you bring up articles of it turning human doesn't make it human in the womb.
Exactly you can't, you don't know the pain that comes with it.
They're going to throw it away later when it's actually human anyway...If they don't want it, they're not going to keep it. Oh but yes let it be born, let is actually experience pain and a shitty life.
I don't know why you keep responding, we're not going to change each others mind and I don't give a shit. You're wasting your time.
I think a woman should be allowed to have an abortion regardless of the situation. It's her body; she shouldn't be forced to give birth to a kid if she doesn't want to. And it's kinda weird to hear guys talk about their stance on the matter, especially if it's the pro-life stance, whenever it's not their body being thrown into a political debate.
Hey, it's your choice, it just means that until you disprove what I said, there's not other option but coming to terms with the fact that the information I supplied is in fact the truth (that is unless you're willing to prove me wrong).
Giving birth to a child doesn't ruin a woman's life, and it sure has less of a possibility to do that then actually killing a human.
I don't know what to say, I gave you all the information you need to know, yet you insist on your opinion, I don't say things that I can't back up, and if I do I admit my mistake.
Yep, but it's either that pain or taking away any possibility of life.
But not into a trashcan, they will give it to a human couple who wants to raise a baby.
Not at all, I love debating
How is that fair to the child though..? Killing the unborn born baby just because of the undesirable circumstances that led to the pregnancy is still not acceptable in my opinion. Obviously it would be difficult for the mother to go through with the pregnancy, but this does not justify robbing someone of their chance to live.
...Are...Are...You know what you don't even know.
How do you know?
Then you're wasting my time, I'm done with this little argument, believe what you want, I just hope you see the truth one day and don't force people into more pain than they have to.
What.
Because when people give birth to a baby, they either give it away or keep it.
The truth is objective, I feel like your arguments are too subjective to be truth, but alright.
You just made me spit my drink out laughing.
Alright bye.
I don't see what's funny in that... lol.
See ya.
Lol, sure, no problem
The whole idea of the mother being able to do whatever she wants with the baby just because "it's her own body and she can do whatever she wants with her own body" is seriously such a cop out argument. Yes, it's her own body, but why on earth are we using that logic and ignoring the actual life in question (the life of the baby)? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If the mother's own life isn't being threatened by the pregnancy, there is no morally acceptable reason for robbing the unborn baby of their chance to live.
Being completely honest, abortion sickens me, and I think it's crazy how readily accessible the procedure is.
But hey, if you want to chat later about something other than this then you can PM me.
I think it should depend on the situation, for example in cases of rape, inbreeding, mothers life in danger, or if their younger than 16 should be allowed to have the option to have one.
I'll admit that I feel a little self conscious about it, but guys should be able to voice their opinions on this subject without any issue, regardless of the fact that they obviously will never have to physically deal with pregnancy itself.
And why did you edit your comment? Out of curiosity, what was your "How easy." comment directed at?
Doesn't that go both ways? The chances that a person would be incontrovertibly helpful in such things as you mentioned (cancer research, remarkable inventor, one in a million theorist, etc) is much less than the chances they would be detrimental to the overall welfare of the people around them (especially when looking at the statistics Sara posted).
EDIT: I should have read Awesomeo's post
EXACTLY! THANK YOU!
Lol, yeah no problem
I find it entertaining you are so excited about someone agreeing with your stance, like it's a grand accomplishment to have others who see the situation the same way you do. Especially under the circumstances of a rather two sided argument where people really only have two choices on their plate to begin with. If you have a choice between chicken or pork chops and you pick one, then odds are you're going to have others who picked the same way you have. Sorry, I just found this really funny and had to give my two cents
Never hurts to have someone support your opinions, especially when yours seem to be outnumbered.
I just feel happy to see I'm not the only one who thinks a certain way, everyone just wants to feel like they belong somewhere and identify with others, I don't see what's funny in it lol
And I don't think it's like picking food because while I can't prove to you porkchops are better than chicken (since it's your taste and I can't change it), I can give you what I have to say on this topic, and I feel like I make my point very clear, but I guess it's too hard convincing someone about this topic so maybe it is a little like food haha
Looking at the comments pro and anti sentiments seem rather evenly distributed.
Would you choose pork chops or chicken? If you would say chicken then:
EXACTLY! THANK YOU!
Dancing Link(?) GIF
Just seemed, to me, like he felt having you agree with him was... extremely advantageous, or something. (Perhaps "advantageous" wasn't the best word... I'll ponder that question for awhile :P )
How is it ridiculous to have consideration for the actual life in question? The mother isn't the only one being affected in this situation.
I reacted that way because the answer to this topic seems very easy to understand for me, and Belan is a smart guy who doesn't spit things out for no reason, so I didn't feel in the dark about it and was happy
Most people wouldn't be so eccentric for having one who thinks the same way they do when there are plenty of other people who think the same way, even in the exact same spot (this comment section). They may try to support each other's claims, but in the middle of a discussion it's not often that something takes place nearly equivalent to a "high five" of acceptance. At least, not in my experiences.
It's actually quite comparable to picking one of the two foods. The severity of the matter not so much, but the comparison between picking one or the either, yes.
Well, what can I say, I found it nice that someone thinks the same way I do and expressed it in a comment.
I actually saw a lot of people do that in my time here.
Maybe it's a forum thing? I just found it... weird.
So it did seem advantageous, or self-reassuring, and that's why you did it? Interesting.
Not advantageous, just self-reassuring.
Yes she is. The only thing that labels that thing as human is DNA, and my mole has that. The only "life" in question is the life of the mother, and how it will be affected by having or not having the abortion, it then falls into her hands whether she feels it's right or wrong to give birth. No one can, or should, decide that for her.
The fetus/unborn baby/ whatever else you would want to call it is absolutely affected. It's being aborted/terminated. It's opportunity to live is being stolen. Regardless of how you want to define what is living and not living, by aborting the baby you are stealing it's opportunity to live. So again, the mother is not the only one being affected here, as the action of aborting the pregnancy clearly dictates what is to happen to the life in question. Considering this, it should not solely be up to the mother to decide how she wants to handle the pregnancy.
Affected is one of those words. You can affect the air, or a rock, they are not living. Neither is the clump of cells. The mother is the only one who is being affected on a level beyond that of moving the placement and arrangement of a group of atoms. It is not a life in question, the only life in question is that of the mother.
The fetus is not living, the mother is, and there is no reason to lower the "value" of the woman's life (in her eyes, by either forcing her to have the child, or forcing her to remove the fetus in a less safe way) for something that is not living.
I am pro life. I believe the ability to bring life into the world is one of the most beautiful things a woman can do. It's our duty when we become mothers to protect, nurture and love our children. Especially in the womb, because they don't have a voice yet, they can't fend for themselves, they depend on us completely. To look at your own child as a mistake to get rid of like trash just because the timing is off or they weren't conceived in the way you wanted..I can't even fathom it. That's your own flesh and blood, your own little girl/boy. The way I see it, the moment you have sex, you're accepting all the possible repercussions that come with it. If you're mature enough to have sex, than you're mature enough to have a baby. That's just how it is. The "my body my choice" argument is honestly so damn selfish, it's not just about your body anymore, there's another life and body to consider now. Yes, the baby wasn't planned, but is 9 months, not even a fraction of your life, really such an unbearable inconvenience? Is it really asking too much of you to give another person a chance at life in exchange for a few months? I'll say it again, it's beyond selfish to only think of how it's going to affect you and your life without even remotely considering your baby's. A life in the womb is just as valuable as a life outside of the womb. If you're reckless enough to have sex without protection, then take responsibility, don't take it out on an innocent life. It's not their fault you didn't use protection. If you don't want kids, use a condom or take birth control, it's really not that hard. If you don't have either on hand, then keep it in your pants until you do. And as controversial as it is, same goes for pregnancy by rape. It's still not the baby's fault that they were conceived in that way, murdering them isn't going to lessen the pain and suffering caused by your rapist. Two wrongs don't make a right. If you still don't want your own child because of the unfortunate circumstances they were conceived in, then give the baby up for adoption, there are plenty of infertile couples who desperately want a child and would give the baby the love they deserve.
Bottom line, there should never be any pride, encouragement or support in taking the life of someone who hasn't even left the womb, robbing them of their only chance to live for such selfish reasons. They're innocent, they've done nothing wrong, they don't deserve to die just because "you aren't ready yet" and won't take responsibility for the consequences of your actions. Call the baby a fetus if you want, say they're just a bunch of cells, that they're an unwelcome parasite, that you're too young to be a mother, that 9 months was asking too much, that you don't have the funds to support a baby etc. Go on, tell all the lies, and make all the excuses you want to help yourself feel better so you can sleep at night, for no amount of lying or twisting of the truth will take away the fact that you are condoning murder, that you have murdered your own child. Words cannot express how disgusting, immoral and inhumane abortion is in my eyes. To wrap this post up, I'd like to share one of my favorite quotes which I believe encompasses the sheer hypocrisy of the pro choice movement.
"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."- Ronald Reagan
Strongly in favor of.
I didn't mean to up vote your responses, but oh well.
If a woman doesn't feel she is ready to raise a child, I'm sorry, but I think she has every right to get an abortion. It's her body. You may not like that statement, but it's the simple truth. In fact, if I'm going to be completely honest, I think it's selfish to force a woman to go through the excruciating process of labor to give birth to a child she never wanted. Given to adoption or not, that's basically using the mother as nothing more than a vessel. Anyway, that's all I have to say on the matter. I will always be pro-choice, and none of the "murder" guilt-tripping will change that.
She doesn't have to raise the child, she can give her child up for adoption. Surely that would be the better alternative to straight up killing it/ robbing it of a chance to live simply because she doesn't feel that she is personally ready to raise said child.
Of course it's her body. This fact doesn't really change anything. "The whole idea of the mother being able to do whatever she wants with the baby just because "it's her own body and she can do whatever she wants with her own body" is seriously such a cop out argument. Yes, it's her own body, but why on earth are we using that logic and ignoring the actual life in question (the life of the baby)? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If the mother's own life isn't being threatened by the pregnancy, there is no morally acceptable reason for robbing the unborn baby of their chance to live." (Quoted from one of my other posts in this thread)
Well, if we're going to talk about selfishness, then I think we should look at the fact that a woman going through with an abortion is being selfish, and in a much more extreme fashion. She is denying someone the chance to live because of her own selfish reasoning. That's pretty screwed up.
It isn't selfish to stop something immoral from happening. (Yes, I feel that killing unborn children is immoral)
Well, that's kind of what she is.
It's not really guilt tripping at all, though I could see someone going that route. There is really no refuting the fact that abortion is the process of robbing an unborn child of their chance to live, and the reasons for doing so are more often than not pure garbage and are entirely unfair to the life in question. It kind of sounds like you're wanting to be stubborn here
I see no legitimate arguments that can justify abortion, and it kind of sickens me that such a process is legal.
This isn't a parallel comparison, as the things that you listed are what they are. They aren't going to change, and they are not sentient. We're talking about the potential to live here, regardless of how you personally want to define life. The fact doesn't change that if you were to do nothing about the pregnancy, a human being would be born. So it seems rather illogical to just wave the argument away and insist that no one is being affected other than the mother when that isn't truly the case. You're still depriving a human being of the chance to live, so clearly you are having an affect on it.
As I explained above, it doesn't matter how you personally want to define "living", the act of abortion still affects another human being's chance at life. That is irrefutable. If the fetus were left to naturally progress, it would be born into the world, free to live it's life. You're still extinguishing life by going through with the process of abortion. You're actively preventing someone from being born. Lowering the "value" of life for the woman in question isn't really a legitimate and fair argument when the alternative is totally removing all value of life in regards to the unborn child. The more and more we dissect the arguments for pro-choice, the more we see how selfish and unfair the choice of abortion really is.
I'm a guy. So my answer to that question is logically that it isn't my place to make a choice like that. If a woman wants to abort a fetus she has no intention of raising or taking care of, why not? People get so caught up in the morality of it that they don't realize that some woman aren't parenting material.
Now, if a woman is in a relationship with another person. I'd hope the woman would address her significant other about her interest in aborting. The statistic that disgusts me is that a lot of "women" (which I use that term in this situation loosely) will cheat on their husband or boyfriend, get knocked up, and doesn't knows who's it is. So, without telling their spouse, just go and abort the fetus without any recourse. Now that's fucked up.
/\/\/\/\/\/\
TRUTH.
Oh, sorry!
Often times I forget which section I'm in.