No I didn't. I said that the way in which we phrase opinions can be harmful.
'Kenny is evil' vs 'I'm not sure Kenny's the best person bec… moreause of x y and z'. The same opinion, but wildly different in its presentation.
If its impossible to phrase opinions online in a way that won't severely upset people (e.g. 'Black people are evil'), then it is advisable not to attempt to express them.
You want to be honest? Okay. I liked you at first because I thought you stood up for your beliefs, but right now I don't know what to think about you. Almost every comment you make now brings up unnecessary hate.
That's the thing, though.
We're praising people for personas they've constructed, not who they actually are.
In real life is everyone … more'very nice'? Not even remotely.
It just feels painfully obvious to me that people aren't being themselves, and trying to praise them for such is a fruitless endeavour like Aeneas trying to stay in Carthage, or praising Jay Gatsby for who he 'is'.
It reeks of desperation to try to please everyone or make friends with everyone at the cost of losing what makes you 'you'.
If people on this thread were being honest, far more negative, things would be being said. As it is it's superficial.
Compliments mean nothing if you compliment every person. Positives mean nothing without negatives and vice versa.
Again, just my opinion.
Freedom of speech, if it existed, would mean that we can say 'All Kenny fans are evil and should kill themselves' with no negative consequence.
Instead, we should have freedom to express an opinion. That's not the same thing. Opinions can be expressed in harmless ways, and they should always be attempted to do so.
No I didn't. I said that the way in which we phrase opinions can be harmful.
'Kenny is evil' vs 'I'm not sure Kenny's the best person bec… moreause of x y and z'. The same opinion, but wildly different in its presentation.
If its impossible to phrase opinions online in a way that won't severely upset people (e.g. 'Black people are evil'), then it is advisable not to attempt to express them.
Yes, because of what I said above.
Freedom of speech, if it existed, would mean that we can say 'All Kenny fans are evil and should kill … morethemselves' with no negative consequence.
Instead, we should have freedom to express an opinion. That's not the same thing. Opinions can be expressed in harmless ways, and they should always be attempted to do so.
Opinions can and should always be expressed in ways that are harmless. Some opinions are impossible to express in a harmless way, e.g. 'Black people are evil', and thus it is recommendable to not express that opinion. We can;t' stop them from doing so, but we can and should suggest it.
Whereas 'Kenny fans are evil' can be phrased in a much nicer, more logical and less needlessly cruel way.
Your own quote, from this thread: http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/comment/1705208/
Freedom of speech shouldn't exist… more. We have to limit what people can say in some situations for the wellbeing of others.
As you can see, nothing about phrasing.
Freedom of opinion and freedom of speech are basically the same thing though. If someone were to say 'All Kenny fans are evil and should kill themselves' that's their opinion. No matter how much you dislike it, it's still their opinion.
Freedom of opinion and freedom of speech are basically the same thing though. If someone were to say 'All Kenny fans are evil and should kill themselves' that's their opinion. No matter how much you dislike it, it's still their opinion.
You want to be honest? Okay. I liked you at first because I thought you stood up for your beliefs, but right now I don't know what to think about you. Almost every comment you make now brings up unnecessary hate.
well I think he refer to "Flog61 is ugly piece of sh**" but instead "Flog61 is not so pretty" if I am right it sound no more harm.
and off context I do like you Flog61
Yeah, only the second one sounds more like "Freedom of opinion that doesn't hurt anyone", and not just "Freedom of opinion" which happens to equal "Freedom of speech".
Freedom of opinion means freedom of expressing any opinion. Therefore, it's the same as freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech = freedom to say whatever the hell you want with no negative consequences.
Freedom of opinion = freedom to express opinions, in ways which aren't unnecessarily rude or cruel.
You know, you have a point. It's easy for people to be liked online as long as they act nice, but who knows if that's just a front to get positive attention? Not saying anyone here is doing that, but this thread does make me a bit uncomfortable now that you bring it up.
That's fine. I appreciate honesty.
I simply do not care that you guys don't like me. Most people on this thread seem to have an obsession with trying to be liked by everyone.
I've already explained about tonation. I hope I don't have to do it again.
To use a metaphor, take the colour red. This colour red is our opinion which we want to express by putting it on a piece of paper.
Now, there are lots of brightness-shades of red. Pink, blood red, extremely pale red etc. which we can choose to use to put this colour on the piece of paper.
However, we know that one shade, let's saypink, is very upsetting to people for some reason, and seeing it would harm them. So a nice person chooses a shade which isn't pink. They end up choosing blood red.
Now, it's the same opinion; the same colour. It's merely expressed in a way which is less rude and offensive.
Being told you're not allowed to put the colour red on a piece of paper is very different to being told not to use one brightness-shade of it.
Yeah, only the second one sounds more like "Freedom of opinion that doesn't hurt anyone", and not just "Freedom of opinion" which happens to… more equal "Freedom of speech".
Freedom of opinion means freedom of expressing any opinion. Therefore, it's the same as freedom of speech.
See above.
Opinions can and should always be expressed in ways that are harmless. Some opinions are impossible to express in a harmless … moreway, e.g. 'Black people are evil', and thus it is recommendable to not express that opinion. We can;t' stop them from doing so, but we can and should suggest it.
Whereas 'Kenny fans are evil' can be phrased in a much nicer, more logical and less needlessly cruel way.
Then it's not a freedom. What sort of freedom is it that it limits you?
Also, to add to that tonation thing, saying that the thread is "gross" isn't the same as saying "I personally disagree with this thread/don't like it".
I've already explained about tonation. I hope I don't have to do it again.
To use a metaphor, take the colour red. This colour red is our… more opinion which we want to express by putting it on a piece of paper.
Now, there are lots of brightness-shades of red. Pink, blood red, extremely pale red etc. which we can choose to use to put this colour on the piece of paper.
However, we know that one shade, let's saypink, is very upsetting to people for some reason, and seeing it would harm them. So a nice person chooses a shade which isn't pink. They end up choosing blood red.
Now, it's the same opinion; the same colour. It's merely expressed in a way which is less rude and offensive.
Being told you're not allowed to put the colour red on a piece of paper is very different to being told not to use one brightness-shade of it.
Comments
I am not agreed with you, the true must be spoken let him be. Hes realistic
Sorry to butt in, but you actually said freedom of speech "doesn't and shouldn't exist".
Erm... Okay?
You want to be honest? Okay. I liked you at first because I thought you stood up for your beliefs, but right now I don't know what to think about you. Almost every comment you make now brings up unnecessary hate.
Yes, because of what I said above.
Freedom of speech, if it existed, would mean that we can say 'All Kenny fans are evil and should kill themselves' with no negative consequence.
Instead, we should have freedom to express an opinion. That's not the same thing. Opinions can be expressed in harmless ways, and they should always be attempted to do so.
Your own quote, from this thread: http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/comment/1705208/
As you can see, nothing about phrasing.
Yeah, but that's also limiting freedom of speech, which you said you didn't say :P
Because lingvort was conflating freedom of speech with freedom to express opinion.
See above.
Opinions can and should always be expressed in ways that are harmless. Some opinions are impossible to express in a harmless way, e.g. 'Black people are evil', and thus it is recommendable to not express that opinion. We can;t' stop them from doing so, but we can and should suggest it.
Whereas 'Kenny fans are evil' can be phrased in a much nicer, more logical and less needlessly cruel way.
I'm sorry, how is the freedom to express opinions different from freedom of speech? They are integral parts of one another, IMO.
Freedom of opinion and freedom of speech are basically the same thing though. If someone were to say 'All Kenny fans are evil and should kill themselves' that's their opinion. No matter how much you dislike it, it's still their opinion.
I've literally just said how they're not the same.
Freedom of speech = freedom to say whatever the hell you want with no negative consequences.
Freedom of opinion = freedom to express opinions, in ways which aren't unnecessarily rude or cruel.
well I think he refer to "Flog61 is ugly piece of sh**" but instead "Flog61 is not so pretty" if I am right it sound no more harm.
and off context I do like you Flog61
That's fine. I appreciate honesty.
I simply do not care that you guys don't like me. Most people on this thread seem to have an obsession with trying to be liked by everyone.
Yes, this is basically what I'm saying.
And thanks, although you don't really know me so I;m not sure how much that means :P
Sorry, but my definition of freedom of opinion doesn't match up with yours. It's not freedom if you're limited, lol.
Yeah, only the second one sounds more like "Freedom of opinion that doesn't hurt anyone", and not just "Freedom of opinion" which happens to equal "Freedom of speech".
Freedom of opinion means freedom of expressing any opinion. Therefore, it's the same as freedom of speech.
You know, you have a point. It's easy for people to be liked online as long as they act nice, but who knows if that's just a front to get positive attention? Not saying anyone here is doing that, but this thread does make me a bit uncomfortable now that you bring it up.
Well then literally all of us are slaves, as none of us are free to do whatever we want.
Quite depressing, but if that's the way you view things then go for it.
I've already explained about tonation. I hope I don't have to do it again.
To use a metaphor, take the colour red. This colour red is our opinion which we want to express by putting it on a piece of paper.
Now, there are lots of brightness-shades of red. Pink, blood red, extremely pale red etc. which we can choose to use to put this colour on the piece of paper.
However, we know that one shade, let's saypink, is very upsetting to people for some reason, and seeing it would harm them. So a nice person chooses a shade which isn't pink. They end up choosing blood red.
Now, it's the same opinion; the same colour. It's merely expressed in a way which is less rude and offensive.
Being told you're not allowed to put the colour red on a piece of paper is very different to being told not to use one brightness-shade of it.
'Black people are evil' instead of 'Black people are unpleasant' or 'Black people are not as good as we are'
Now isn't that rude Flog, we're just having fun here.
Exactly: all three of those are offensive.
Whereas 'Kenny fans are often unpleasant' is far less offensive than 'Kenny fans are evil'.
Then it's not a freedom. What sort of freedom is it that it limits you?
Also, to add to that tonation thing, saying that the thread is "gross" isn't the same as saying "I personally disagree with this thread/don't like it".
well now depends of them...
I like to call me evil instead of unpleasant
the last one is comparison, I did not say black are bad or worse but are not so good that mean that black people can be and are good.
I know rude is your persona's buzzword towards me, but I give actual reasons for what I say, it's not baseless meanness for the sake of meanness.
well do not worry he is having fun... at least fun of you, just joke here
but the true must be spoken
Well Flog, yet you want to ruin people's fun. You can't just keep your opinions to yourself sometimes for the sake of other people.
Who are you?
I call him "The One With Shitty Grammar".
Seems fair.
I agree with you Flog, freedom of speech shouldn't exist, specially when let's people like you say whatever they want.
agreed
Joke------------->
You------------>
Oooo come on... I feel surrounded here.
The true must be spoken
The Joke's on you?
Facepalm
Okay, we will give you space.