The t******
Original Title: The traitor
So, Gwyn Whitehill revealed there's a traitor among our council when you meet her. Does anybody else suspect it's Lady Forrester? I never really trusted her, and although Maester Ortengryr might seem the traitor, it looks too obvious, since he's the only one so far who hasn't actively defended House Forrester, and it seems like Telltale wants us to suspect him.
In addition, there's also the way she accuses so quickly Duncan or Royland (depending on who you chose for sentinel), if you tell her you know there's a traitor, and she immediately wants to know how you got that information, if you don't tell her about Gwyn. I told Lady Forrester about the traitor to see how she reacted and it just made me more suspicious of her. About the motive, it is clear that Lady Forrester wants to have Ryon back at any cost, and Ludd probably promised she could have him back, if she revealed everything about the Forrester's plans. Does anyone else agree with this and think there's more to Lady Forrester than what she's saying?
Comments
I needed to edit the title for now as it's slightly too spoilerish for people who haven't played yet as it's a major plot twist in the episode.
I suspect that Duncan might be the traitor.
thanks for fixing that, kinda disappointed, OP in the future please be smarter when making headlines for topics.
I suspect Lady Forrester, too. But Royland still is the other option. He tends to make things worse and leaves the meeting in the forrests quite - suspicious if you ask me.
But to this point - could be anyone.
That's actually a smart idea in my opinion, as it's away from where Whitehills could overhear them.
they wouldn't gather there if whitehills could hear them.
That's what I was saying. They were trying to stay away from where others could hear them.
yeah but he is leaving.... .... I can't tell really ... .... but to me it felt like he run straight to the whitehills. But on the other hand I think "my" mother is even more suspicous.
Maybe it's even a conspiricy between her and the whitehill daughter without lord whitehill knowing. Maybe the ladys set things up to get Rodrick bent his knee.
I thought it was Duncan. He is just a little too nice. There's something off about him. Also, the fact that he wants to find the North Grove so badly makes me nervous. I don't know if I should trust him.
Another point...we know that the Whitehills want us to provoke them into a fight. When we had our council meeting in the forest I thought it odd that Duncan, normally a man of peace, was pleased with my choice to expel Gryff. He was the only one to support that decision. Lady Forrester and Ser Royland wanted me to fetch Ryon. That makes me think the traitor might be Duncan.
This point is meaningless. Duncan supported me trying to save Ryon while Royland rejected. I think it's just the non-Sentinal disagrees no matter what.
Repost from my first threat created in this forum:
I noticed there was some sort of misunderstanding about the Whitehill soldiers in the Great Hall, although some of you let them wait outside while Lord Whitehill and Ramsay were invited to talk with Ethan. I've noticed a suggestion from another topic that it may be a traitor working for Whitehills/Boltons so I decided to expand this assumption into a theory.
Actually, I'm pretty sure it's Maester Ortengryn.
Bummer. I thought it was a clue. I have to know!!! It's going to drive me crazy. Hopefully, we found out in the next episode.
Good post. I've been incredibly distrustful of Maester Ortengryn since that first episode, but I thought he'd be a bit TOO obvious. That's why I'm suspecting Duncan. You raise some good points thought and it's definitely got the wheels in my head turning. I just have no idea at this point, but you could definitely be on to something.
It's probably the maester. All masters serve the citadel and every lord has one. It's possible that the citadel is scheming against the Forresters. Also:
Maesters control the ravens.
Maesters treat the wounded.
Maesters give lords council.
What's probably happening is the maesters of both houses are just sending ravens back and forth and that's how the Whitehills know everything. Nobody in house Forrester would even know since they don't manage the ravens.
Also, consider that since Ortengryn is a Valeman, he practices the Faith of the Seven instead of the Old Gods. It might not be the scheming of the citadel, but a rogue zealot determined to displace heathen First Men.
Also, if we accept that Duncan is the traitor we're essentially accepting that he's wicked enough to not only betray his house (the Forresters), but also his own nephew. He'd be manipulating Gared into risking his life while Gared's under the impression he's saving the Forresters, only to betray him and use Gared's hard work and sacrifice to destroy them. I can't see him being that evil. You may be right about the maester.
I thought it was very obviously the Maester.
This is what i was worried about, there could be some sort of motive for Duncan to use Gared and betray the Forresters but there are also other suspects. In the world of Game of Thrones i find it hard to trust most people.
Additional argument: I suspected from the very beginning that choice whether drink or not drink the milk of the poppy was some kind of a clue. Maybe, our creepy Maester was supposted to chop off Rodrik's legs to keep House Forrester without a strong leader and only Lady Forrester and Sentinel's interference saved our limbs?
I think its the Maester, Lord Forrester really trusted Duncan and Royland seems way to passionate about killing the Whitehills as soon as possible
I know what you mean. That aspect of perpetual distrust is what makes the Game of Thrones universe so frustrating, yet also so good. It would be quite a blow if Duncan turns out to be the traitor. I like twists, but that one would cut pretty deeply. I'd feel really bad for Lord Gregor (who clearly trusted this man with his family's survival) and for Gared (who has no other family left).
IMO it's Lady Elissa Forrester or Maseter Ortengryn.
I suspect lady Forrester as well, and it's curious that they gave you the choice to tell only her character or to hide it from her. Also, when you name one person you find suspicious, she goes on doubting about every one on the council and say there's no way to know and that you should trust nobody...
It would be funny if in future episodes you get to trick her by telling her something false and see if the Whitehill would know about it later on.
if it,s not her then I would think it might be the maester.
Yeah. I'd say it's definitely either the mother or Duncan. Someone's leaking info since they know about Asher and Mira's parts. Maester Ortegryn could easily have let Rodrick die in surgery since Rodrick being back has just made House Forrester stronger since the lord is no longer a hostage at their house. It also may not be a coincidence that they made sure it's Royland who finds Rodrick alive since this would have also been an opportunity to kill Rodrick. The mother's obvious motive would be Ryan's safety, but I find it hard to believe she'd leak plans on freeing Ryan then, and she was also the one to advise you to basically slaughter the Whitehills at the first opportunity.
I'd have to go with Duncan. He makes the most story-interesting choice since it means he sent his nephew to go find the Grove for his self-interest rather than for the Forresters. On the contrasting side, it also shows just how evil/heartless he could be to work with the people that killed his brother and niece. Of course, we don't actually know how close they were.
I fear it might be Duncan. Or the mother, but why would the mother betray the house? What would she benefit from doing all of this to her children? Was in accordance to keep Ryon safe? I don't know.
I dont know who may be the traitor...but I did close up after hearing that there was one. First I thought it could be the mother, possibly due to the link I directly saw between her and Catelyn Stark. Maester Ortegryn didnt look or sound like a traitor to me. A maester does not serve a house. A maester is bound to the castle/keep he is stationed at,providing his service to whoever holds the castle/keep. Then again what if Ortegryn ends up like Grand Maester Pycelle (who has sided with the lannisters,despite his vows). I dont think your sentinel will be the traitor. Maybe its the non-sentinal (eg. the one you didnt choose as sentinel) though royland seems so harsh against the whitehills I dont think he is the traitor(I chose him as sentinel btw). Duncan? I dont know. It may be him but I also have my doubts about that. Talia is not the traitor for sure(I love how everyone forgets about her XD).
All my money's on Maseter Ortengryn.
The lady wouldn't risk saving her son, plus her blatent hatred for the Whitehills is kinda a reason why she wouldn't work with them
Yeah, I think its Maester Ortengryn as well. He is the most likely candidate.
Lady Forrester, very much doubt it cause she hates the Whitehills with a passion.
Duncan is loyal and wise, and the former Lord Forrester trusted him obviously above all else.
Royland is rash and tough, but loyal like a dog.
Maester Ortengryn was the only one attending the meeting with them in the forest, he was also absent in first episode when Ethan meets the Boltons. I shut the gate and only allowed the Bolton Lords to enter, leaving the soldiers outside...how they got inside I do not know...but its possible the Maester lot them in. Also Maester Ortengryn pry to much into stuff...like trying to figure what happened with Gared and the former Lord at the Red Wedding.
Its possible the Maester works for the Whitehills, or that he is one of them. He is not that old, and possibly new to the house entirely. Replacing the former dead Maester.
just as Grafite said. She kinda reminds me of Lady Catelyn Stark.
I GENUINELY have no idea.
Duncan - if it's him, then why is he so persistent on finding the North Grove? Why did Lord Forrester trust him so deeply?
Royland - You can see in his eyes that he wants every Whitehill to die, but I suppose it could be an act. Maybe that's why Griff's men didn't kill him if you tell him to attack.
Ortengryn - Nothing to suggest that he isn't the traitor, but also nothing to suggest he is. If anything, he could have "accidentally" messed up Rodrik's surgery. I don't think it's him. He seems to be the most likely, however.
Lady Forrester - Maybe? If so i'm totally fucked because I told her that Gwyn gave me the info. I don't believe she would go this low, although it could be possible to save Ryon. Highly doubt it though.
Talia - While not a member of the council, I believe she's present quite a lot. Maybe she eavesdrops and listens in, feeding the enemy with information? The fact that she is so opposed to the Whitehills may just be an act.
A random guard/peasant/other eavesdropping - Who knows? If Telltale wanted to they could just blame some random guy listening in.
There's no way to KNOW Gwyn is telling the truth - for all we know, the council part was a lie and they could just have a spy listening in.
edit: if gwyn ends up in prison or dead next episode then i totally know it's lady forrester
I could see Lady Forrester coughing up info on certain things, but revealing they are going to rescue her son? Nah. There's been a lot of times where diff characters have emphasized that the family is what makes the house strong, so I choose to trust her.
I think it's Duncan or Roland. Duncan, because what Griff said about his being "really his dog". And Roland, because what better way to cover you're a traitor than pretending to hate your employers virulently. He's always barking at them, but always back down instantly. As compared to his throwing an absolute hissy fit and trying to undermine Duncan if Ethan does not pick him as Sentinel.
There really is no way to know Gwyn is telling the truth, short of catching someone in the act or a confession.
I drank milk. Was treated good and healing fine. He insists that Lady leaves anyway, but at least I wasn't feeling pain and slept through.
We don't know if she leaves or not.
Another thing we have to consider is that the traitor may not be fixed, with that I mean...what if the traitor changes between Duncan and Royland, depending on who you picked as sentinel?
Still not the point. He could just make it seems like he's healing us, keep wound uncleaned or with infection instide, stitch it and bam - weeks later your leg is all swollen and rotten. Unfortunate!
Didn't happen though, Rodrick even can walk, so I don't think Maester messed his legs. Can be traitor, maybe, but not in healing.
I am not sure yet and I don't trust any of them. If we can play the lie game with them then we might be able to find out who the traitor is.
I think it's Mama Forrester. The typical 'soft' betrayal with good intentions (ie. feeding Lord Whitehill information to appease him and ensure Ryon's safety) which actually backfires and causes more damage than it prevents.
I think the Maester is too obvious a choice (and maybe a little too invested in Rodrik?) to be the snitch. Maesters are always painted as slimy assholes if they aren't the lovable grandpa types.
And, with Royland and Duncan already being at each other's throats over the position of Sentinel and, as such, having their characters judged by the players already, they seem like unlikely choices for traitors too. Having the traitor by Royland or Duncan would likely alienate the portion of players that chose them as Sentinel and make them feel like poop. (I'm thinking from a hypothetical dev position here rather than a player.)
Maester Ortengryn is the traitor. Most of the others in the small council have too much to lose if the information from the meeting gets out. Maester Ortengryn as the traitor was my first thought before anyone else.
Maester Ortengryn has access to the Messager birds since he takes care of them and no one would notice him sending letters to Lord Whitehill about the meetings. We don't know much about Ortengryn's past other then that he was trained at the Citadel and assigned to House Forrester. Tends to go missing at points in the story where bad dodo tends to go down (Like Ethan being stabbed in the throat).
Given that Rodrik can tell his mother what Gwen said about a traitor in House Forrester, I suspect Lady Forrester knows who it is. I also suspect I know why Ortengryn betrayed House Forrester if that's the case but need more info to be sure it's not that he's a "secret" Whitehill or something.
I think it's probably Duncan... Why did he insisted to send Gared to North Grove and risk his life? He didn't seem to care too mutch about him and he asked him to broke his vows, whitch is panissable by death! That means if Gared won't die beyond the wall, he could die when he comes back. Also he is one of the least obvious choices, because he was good friends with Lord Forrester, he is a likable character and he is the one you trusted with the information about North Grove. If he is the traitor it would be a surprising and painful twist in the story, surprise and pain = GoT, so I think he is the one...