The First Telltale Episode I've Been Really Disappointed With
As the title says, I found it absolutely ludicrous that my favorite story arc of the game (Mira's) was beholden to just the one path it was lent.
The fact that I couldn't outright displace myself from Tyrion, having not wanted any part of his deal in the first place, was just flat out stupid. Any time her story came up in this episode I found that it didn't reflect the Mira I had played in the previous installments. My Mira was cunning and silent, never taking any sides that would put her personally at risk. She's no hero, she's not going to risk herself for her family. I felt there were enough options in the episodes prior to truly embody that in her, she really was able to push her family aside, but here it was just forced upon the player with no recourse.
Strange as it might sound, I play a Telltale game by the character as I would like to see them, not as with the decisions that I would personally make. And strange as it sounds, I want my Mira Forrester to be the scheming self-absorbed handmaiden who stays in her place and leaves her family hanging in hope of finding better favor for herself. She knows her place, and it definitely isn't helping her family at her own expenses. Maybe my Gared is a Forrester boy through and through, but not my version of Mira.
Seeing my favorite arc of the season so far reduced to a one-track of attempting to help where I was previously offered the chance at being that slightly twisted character who is in it for themselves peeved me quite a bit. It was a direct contradiction to the choices I made before and during the episode, not to mention the fiasco with the Wall Fight being unavoidably fatal. One of the worst Telltale episodes I have ever seen as far as choices not being rendered properly in the story.
Comments
Hmm.. I thought this episode was the best yet.
But I'd planned to be loyal to my family and NOT siding with Tyrion, which was impossible. My Mira was always thruthful and nice to Maergery and i haven't even asked her for help once. I stayed with her and Tyrion just spoke it out, it wasn't possible to reveal it to her before. I understand why Margaery is mad at me (you don't want to ever mistreat Cesei) but as a friend of mine? She's exaggerating or just playing the friends game.
But I don't pity them. Having 5 character's which every action could affect any other, there has to be some restrictions. You still shape the Story, just as they say. And it's a very GoT-like thing to have some thinks you dislike and can't change, but have to live with
I agree with the disappointment, with the last two episodes really. I just don't feel connected to the story, and the bad guys seem particularly black and white. I mean, there's not one Whitehill guard that's somewhat of a decent person?
I also don't really care about what's going on in Kings Landing either. I guess I find the court intrigue blah, and Margery as a character sort of annoying.
The stuff at the Forresters keep just feels like a rehash of Carvers place in The Walking Dead season 2.
I am kind of interested in Gared, I don't trust any of his "friends", but it doesn't really give you any sort of choice about it. Cotter or is it Cutter? anyway I didn't find the scamp thief bit at all charming, but staying away from him seems like it's a no go. Why couldn't I have made friends with the big recruit? He would have at least been honest. I would have appreciated a story line with a straight forward character. I guess Ashers story has that though.
I really like the Asher storyline as well as the character himself, and I love Beska. His uncle seems a bit like a non-entity. Asher and his story are the only reason I'll be playing the next episode. (that and I bought the season pass.)
I realize that all TellTale games aren't truly about choice as much as they're about story. I mean the ending is going to be the ending for the most part, a death is going to be a death, and it's impossible to stop certain scenes from playing out any way but the way Telltale wants them to play out, so I guess I just don't dig this story.
Not really, but one of the guards at least has the decency to say 'My Lord...' to Gryff when he kicks Rodrik in the face, and some of the other guards look a bit uncomfortable. This only happens if you keep standing up.
However, he's still a prick, he's the one who blocked the stairs in Episode 2 :P
Well I'm sorry to hear you didn't like this episode, but I loved this episode, even more so than Episode 2. Mira's story keeps getting more and more interesting, Gared's looking to find the North Grove, but probably my favorite is Rodrik. If you stood up for yourself and refused to submit to Gryff, it has to be one of Telltale's best scenes.
The only thing that disappointed me was Telltale still giving Asher no screen time
Well what most people don't understand is that your character is not you, this is not a RPG game, characters have their own personality, you just get to choose how they behave in a particular situation, you don't get to decide who they are.I personally like it more this way and i absolutely loved the episode.
To be fair most soldiers are pricks in game of thrones.
I feel the same frustration with the lack of alternative paths. It feels like no matter what you do, in any given situation, you'll end up where telltale want you. For example: will refusing to stay down reeeally have a consequence? As a human, your brain will keep telling you "yes", but after looking back at your experience in the game, you think "yeeaaaah, but I doubt it". It's kinda shitty.
The lack of alternatives (or presence alternatives that reflect no REAL impact on the story) makes the game feel less than what I had first expected.
All things aside, I am still loving the game, the characters, the story, and practically everything the game has given me. My only complaint is that I wish they had more alternatives.
Well that sad bcuz i loved this game this one was awesome cant wait to play more episode
Bad guys being black and white? you new to gaem of thrones or something? lol
Basing on you own position, it is not that this is the worst episode in a simple sense, but this is the episode where the lack of alternative paths is more painful.
As was pointed out above, you usually don’t have real choices about your actions in TT games, but can only choose how the character will behave in a particular situation (more through words than through actions). But, in other games, the story and dialogs were done in a way that even if you wanted to go left, you were naturally driven (but not forced) right. This is not the feeling in GoT since the first episode.
Definitely not as strong as the first two. I thought there wasn't much going on and choices were ehh... Its still better than Amid The Ruins
I liked Mira's part if only, because now it felt like I was playing the game. I mean the one with politics and dirty deals (and I guess the game itself lol). I went the route of taking Tyrion's offer to help House Forrester and it weaved well into the story. I'm playing with every character doing what they can to help the house, everyone must do their part. Choosing to do the opposite and look after yourself is present, but it sucks to hear that the story doesn't want you to go that way. I guess Telltale just wants you to think of the whole picture and that couldn't be more apparent in this episode.
My problem not only is that your decisions don't matter, but the fact that the decisions you can make often break suspension of disbelief just to keep you in the game... You can make the most intentionally bone-headed decisions just for the hell of it and it doesn't matter. You'll somehow wind up on the path you're supposed to be on. Why let me be an idiot if you won't punish me for it?
Why the hell would Cersei ever keep a handmaiden from some minor and declining Northern household alive if they REFUSE TO BEND TO THEIR KING? Sansa's the key to the entire North and even SHE doesn't display that kind of defiance as it'd end up with her dead. So how does Mira get away with sassing the Queen Regent and refusing to kneel? Cersei has had handmaidens killed for less, and many of them were part of more important houses than Mira's will ever be.
Why would Griff allow Rodrick to stand up to him? The little shit was tap dancing on his rib-cage in front of his own men and no one was stopping him. He has a garrison of soldiers that are running roughshod all over the Forester halls and no resistance to stop them. I could understand Griff backing off if you secured that marriage contract with the Glenmores but otherwise, what reason would he ever be intimidated by a cripple that punches him in the face and refuses to kneel?
The game is filled with these kind of inexplicable segments where people live when they clearly should not. But it doesn't how stupid your decisions are. it doesn't matter how much of a jerk you decide to be. No sir-- we're on rails and our heroes have to win because... glory and honor I guess? But that goes against EVERYTHING Game of Thrones and A Song of Ice and Fire is. This isn't Lord of the Rings or some story where as long as you're the good guy you can charge out with a handful of men and lofty ideals and win the day because justice and righteousness and all that horseshit. In this story, you act the fool, you die a fool's death.
I'll tell you what should have happened after each of these choices:
If Mira refuses to pay respect and loyalty to the king and chooses to be snippy with Cersei, it should have ended with her being strangled to death in the night, trundled off to a black cell, or dragged to Joffrey's chambers while he sits and gleefully waves a crossbow around. The "game over" screen would show her head on a pike mounted to the Red Keep or would have us view her brutalized and violated courpse discarded unceremoniously in some unknown location in Flea Bottom.
If Rodrick failed to secure any alliances and decides to be a prick to Griff and his men by punching him in the face, Griff should plunge a sword through Rodrick's body and tell said men to kill and burn everything in sight. The "game over" screen would show smoke rising over the town with a backdrop of men and women screaming as soldiers have their way with the people and house.
Were this written by George R R Martin, that's exactly what would have happened. Because he doesn't do stories where men beat the odds by virtue of their honor and nobility.
Also, we're suddenly now told that the Whitehills "cannot afford war with us." by Duncan. Um.. what? Since when? They have more men, they have an alliance with the STRONGEST HOUSE AND THE CURRENT WARDENS IN THE NORTH. They have a garrison of men INSIDE our walls. In many people's version, we don't even have an ally to support us! Can't afford a... what the hell are you talking about, game? They have all the power! They can do whatever they want, so why don't they? And weren't you the one that told Ethan they COULD afford a war? What the hell changed? Seriously... context please. This game is starting to stretch my ability to believe any of this.
Case Number 1: Cersei gets Mira killed, Margaery is angry at her for that and decides to turn Joffrey against her, which thing is not difficult at all, that's why you're technically allowed to be sassy with Cersei.
Case number 2: The Whitehills and Gryff are enjoying it, tormenting house Forrester, being the ones in charge. When Rodrick gets up all what Gryff sees is a pathetic man to break down even more, and he likes it.
Case number 3: The Boltons are the wardens, and slaughtering the Forresters has no convenience at all for them, they have the best workers, and the Whitehills would have that chance only with a solid excuse, like an attack or a murder, that's the reason why Gared was sent to the Wall in the first place.
Alright allow me to respond.
Case 1: HUH????? You really REALLY think Margaery is going to turn Joffrey against Cersei-- over HANDMAIDENS? Especially one from a small Northern house whom nobody cares about? Yeah... right. Margaery has some influence on Joffrey but there are limits and there's only so much she can or would do before looking suspicious herself. She gave Mira fair warning-- don't be an idiot in front of the queen. You DON'T refuse to kneel to a king, especially one like Joffrey. If anything, Margaery would distance herself from Mira because it's not a case of her word vs Cersei's. Cersei was there. Tyrion was there. The Kingsguard loyal to Joffrey himself are there. There are plenty of eyes and ears to implicate Mira and Joffrey would not stand for it, neither would Margaery come to her defense and risk his questioning on why she'd defend a disloyal northern girl.
Case 2: So they don't kill them because they enjoy torturing them? Sorry, not believable. Oh I'm sure they get a kick out of torturing them, but that's not their primary goal. They're acting like dicks because they're trying to provoke the Foresters and want their land and wood to themselves. The game even says it. But they already have all the justification and power they need.
And Griff did not see a pathetic man when he was kicking Rodrick around. He was visibly insulted by Rodrick standing up to him! And when Rodrick kept getting up, he looked SCARED. He didn't see a weak man that he could torture. He saw a threat. He was exactly like Theon Greyjoy when he took Winterfell and started demanding respect from everyone. When you push men like that, they don't just back off stammering "I'll come back again! You'll be sorry!!" Especially when they have all the power. Yet we're supposed to believe that Rodricks manly jawline and voice was enough to scare him off? When he's got his sword out, everyone is watching, and respect is on the line for this "fourth-born son with something to prove" if Rodrick refuses to kneel? No... I call bullshit. This Rodrick Forrester should have followed Rodrick Cassal to the grave in exactly the same way.
Case 3: The Whitehills are one of the Bolton's most loyal bannermen. Forester craftsmen are only worth so much in terms of leverage and there's nothing stopping said craftsmen from working under the Whitehills. The Whitehills already have a solid excuse for wanting the Foresters gone-- the Foresters refuse to submit in action or in word and are conspiring to wage war (remember they have a spy feeding this information). That's worse than the murder of a few useless peasant soldiers. Do you think the Boltons would want some upstart little nothing of a house causing them trouble by tying up their other bannermen when they've got other problems? Even if the Boltons still wouldn't intervene, the burden lies on the game itself to explain this, which it hasn't.
And tying back to Case 2, I STRONGLY doubt the Boltons would give a solid shit if Griff or Lord Whitehill got tired and just decided to kill the Foresters anyway. So again, why is Griff not killing Rodrick?
I agree in a way, I felt that the many of the choices given would not be any that I would have chosen for given characters. I, too, play the game to the personality I think each character would have and make choices accordingly. I was slightly disappointed in this one, I found myself not making any choice (which is a choice), in many of the encounters. And I agree with one of the above comments that it does kind of seem that our choices are becoming less and less consequential in regard to where the story goes.... we get there anyways, regardless of choices. Hoping the next is very well thought out, not rushed, and provides true alternatives that really modify the direction of your game. I would rather wait longer for the next episode (and have it be amazing) than get it sooner and have this lack of true alternatives and game changing choices. Just my 2 cents.
And when all your protagonists die because of your decisions? Start again from episode 1? Were this written by GRRM it would be ready 2050, oh he dies before that.
I actually liked the episode most of the three.
I think this is the best epiode OVERALL (especially Rodrik's scenes) but Mira's story was the worst. I was even a little bored. Why Margaery became so harsh? She didn't care about Tyrion at all in the previous episodes. How could this little boy kill a trained, full-armed guard? Why was I forced to this deal with Tyrion? I hope next episodes and the outcome will be good.
Well there's Gywn (although that's assuming she's not feeding us false information).
I think the opposite. It was the best game, most thrilling, most stressful game I've EVER played! I am in deep with the characters and love every bit of it. I can understand your point though. I guess I got lucky that the way I played each character is exactly the way the story works best with.
I am thankful that the writers think like me lol... I can imagine how mad I'd be if the story would suddenly fit more your story. Yikes... The only way you can make your play experience better is to think this way: your Mira wanted to play it safe, but now she realizes she's just a pawn in the hands of the big players at court! Time for her to rethink her game and adapt. She can still be cunning and quiet and doesn't need to show her loyalties on her sleeve. But she has to adapt to her circumstance and make the best of it. What I'm saying is, don't see it like "my Mira suddenly changed" but rather her situation did and now she has to figure out her next steps. If you don't like the choice of actions you have but you're forced to do it anyway, just figure out a differnt motivation for doing these things. Why would your Mira steal the decree? Because she didn't want an alliance with Tyrian in the first place! It kinda works your way, too 
I guess that's mostly true about Game of Thrones, it just annoys me here for some reason.
Yup, I guess I just forgot about that point. It's been a while since I've read the books and I've only just started the TV series.
CASE 1: Words, as Cersei often said, are wind, Margaery could have sustained to Joffrey that Mira was just a stupid girl of the North that still needed to learn, Joffrey would have believed her, since even if he is a sadistic bastard, he confided on the fact that Margaery would manage her own handmaidens. If Cersei tried to sustain otherwise, Margaery would be more than capable to turn Joffrey by her side, she knows how to get hold of him, and nobody would then give two shits about a simple, useless handmaiden.
CASE 2: Gryff is not lord of Ironrath, he is just the commander of a garrison, he needs approval from his father to kill Rodrick, and his father needs approval from the Boltons, since only they have the authority to depose a lord, the Whitehills have no power in the grand scheme of things. Theon's case is entirely different. First, Rodrick Cassal is no lord, Second, Theon had no chance to mantain Winterfell for more than some weeks, he hasn't the security Gryff has, so he opted to be utterly feared to not face rebellion, Third, Theon didn't want to kill Rodrick, he was convinced by one of his man to do that, because that was the only act that would have granted him a little bit of respect from his men.
CASE 3: Refusal to submit doesn't mean complete extermination, one thing is to act, another to anger the fourth born son of one of their many bannermen. Then again from what I've heard if we don't play things right House Forrester will fall, and there are surely going to be consequences for our actions, and one of these consequences might indeed be extermination, but for a far more reasonable matter than Gryff and his anger problem.
And yes, Ramsay Bolton/Snow would not care, but Roose Bolton is smarter than that, he would entirely care about what happens in his lands.
I just want to let you guys know that only 1 spoiler is needed, and @BondedStones provided it.
I've said this before but I think Episode 3 was the best. It invoked an emotion in me that game developers want, that emotion was me getting so involved with the characters that I was swearing at the TV and would shout at it at one point, as yes I just wanted the option to do a certain thing to a certain person.
But I didnt really care for Gared until now. But when the stuff went down in my Episode 3, he just got intresting. Now im excited for them all for episode 4. I just hope we get more chances to annoy Cerci as tbh I love doing that.
He could have had help come. Maybe one of the other people that are working for the same person.
Gwyn wants Asher's D, that's why she helps.
I beg to differ.
This episode disappoints you, but Walking Dead Season 2 episode 3-5 don't????
WUT?
Opinions, amiright?
You're better off skipping this episode all together to be honest. This episode was pretty much filler through and through.
How was this filler? There was a good amount of story/character development in this episode
Character development? Not really. I mean there was some but it was more introducing new characters then developing the old ones.
Story development was what I was most disappointed with. Just when it seemed the plot was going to move forward telltale yanks ot back with there being a traitorand having to hold off on our plan. Just when it appears asher is going to get his army another wrench gets thrown into things. Tyrion gets arrested (which everyone knew was going to happen but still Teltalle like the original poster mentions pigeon holes you into this decision to make sure the Mira plot stalls.
I'm also getting tired of getting slapped around by the Whitehills and Boltons. We get it the Foresters are in a tough place how many times do we need to see the same scenario rehashed over and over again. It's redundant.
You make some valid points but overall I still think this episode had enough development to not be deemed a filler.
This was the best episode so far as far as story and character development goes, but Telltale's refusal/inability to alter the storyline based on your character choices was most apparent, and therefore the most frustrating in this episode. It is irritating when one of their main selling points of this game is, "...that the events and characters of the show are intertwined with the game, and do have a very powerful impact on House Forrester," yet the only impact any of the choices made by characters outside of the house was Rodrik's engagement if you forged a letter as Mira; and even then, I'm almost positive it is determinant, because a number of people did not secure Elena's hand.
I felt similar about Mira. First playthrough I was loyal to Margaery and didn't want to have anything to do with Tyrion or his deal, but he approached me anyway and Margaery was pissed. So when I had to replay a second time because there was something wrong with my save files I was like "Fuck that shit" and defied Margaery every chance I got. Because who cares about continuity, right?