What is your opinion of the new laws that Indiana and Arkansas have set?
The one that states that business owners have there right to refuse service to homosexual couples, based on religious grounds?
I personally, believe that business owners should indeed have the right to refuse service to anyone they see fit.
I think that if the business owner is religious, and if he views homosexuality is wrong, that he is well within his right to refuse them service.
Business owners have the right to set standards for their places of business, and both employees and customers are obligated to follow them.
And by following said standards, it actually shows respect for the proprietors.
Many today do not hold religion in high regard, and given all that happened regarding the Catholic Church some years back, a problem that is still going on today, it is easy to see why.
However, it should not be forgotten that the reason the Colonies declared independence from England, was to have freedom of religion.
Religion has been at the very core of America since before it's beginning as a nation.
Comments
I think it's sick and very homophobic. Sure, the Bible condemns homosexuality, but there's a difference between using the Bible as a trump card to restrict gay people (emphasis on the word people) from having basic rights and believing that homosexuality is wrong.
The Bible teaches that we should not condemn other people or presume to know who will or will not be saved. Jesus and other New Testament leaders taught by word and example not to be self-righteous or shun or discriminate against those we consider to be "sinners".
Long story short, this is another case of men using God's word to facilitate their own selfish and hateful way of life against those who are different from them. Whether the Pope, the church or your mom says they don't deserve equal rights doesn't matter, it's out of the question. We're all equal to God.
"Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean." (Romans 14:13-14)
It makes me not want to go to Indiana and Arkansas, but I had no plans of going there anyway.
lmfao
How would that even work practically?
It's not like you can tell someone is gay by looking at them.
Unless ofcourse you get them all registered. And maybe have them wear a sign on the outside of their clothes?
Lmfao, 1939 all over again.
So you believe that stores and other businesses should have to the right to refuse services to people based on things they can't help like race, sex, sexual orientation, and disorders? I'm not quite sure you understand how business laws work at all. When you open a business to the public you have to follow the constitutional laws that forbids refusing goods and services to people based on sex, race, religion, etc. In other words, if you start a business that serves to provide goods and services to the public, you are obligated to serve the people within that public. Having your way in thinking that businesses should have the right to refuse services to anyone they see fit is a dangerous, shameful, and disingenuous view that could actually harm people in the long run.
Keep in mind that no one says you can't refuse services to people, you just can't refuse them based off of things they can't help. You're free to refuse customers when they threaten to harm employees or other patrons, when a store is closed, or when their presence creates an issue of safety or health hazards.
Just to make sure you're not a hypocrite, would you be perfectly fine if a religious person used their religious beliefs to refuse services to people of other religious faith and people who are irreligious? What about if they used their religion to justify their hatred and animosity toward specific groups of people while running their said business? Or any other store owner that implements religious beliefs that many would deem controversial or too extreme to have? Where do you draw the line?
Showing respect for business proprietors is more important than showing respect for the public?! The vary same public that many store owners rely on to help keep their businesses afloat? Out of curiosity, have you ever worked at a retail store?
People, at least here in the US, are not obligated to hold religion in high regard. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. And why do I get the feeling that when you say religion, you specifically just mean Christianity? America is not a Christian nation (or a theocracy at all), even though Christians make up the majority of this country. No one is saying you can't be religious and practice your beliefs, it's just that when you open a business to the public you have to follow specific rules and guidelines that ensure that you must serve people within that public unless they are causing trouble for you or other customers. Any religious beliefs you have while you are serving the public get put on hold.
You know what? I was pretty disgusted at first, but after a bit of thinking, now I'm ok with it.
If you want to refuse service for bigoted reasons, it's your decision as the owner of your private business.
Just don't go crying afterwards when you lose all those customers who are either victims of your bigotry, or friends with those who are.
I certainly won't cry if you go out of business.
It still shouldn't be legal, this is pure discrimination.
They have the 'right' to be homophobic, racist, sexist and all the rest in their own time.
But actually PREVENTING other people from doing something PURELY because of their sexual orientation? That is 100% homophobic.
If a law passed saying it was okay to refuse service to black people because they're black, would you be okay with it? Would you really?
Also you choose to be a Christian. It is, and always has been, 100% okay to judge someone/restrict someone for their choices (not that saying 'you can't prevent others from doing things for terrible reasons' is really a restriction) - because our entire law system is based on the fact that people be judged for the choices they make rather than who they are. You do not choose to be female, or black, or gay any more than you chose to be male and white and straight.
Religious people should not get special rights in their actions just because they have religious motivation. Religions should be respected but should not define the law, and must work within the confines of it.
Its just wrong, no one should be refused of something just because they are gay.
Yeah.
The thing is, those people are not preventing anything; They are saying "I don't want to do it", which is different.
In a properly working free market, there will be other similar businesses around who are not run by idiots, and who will be glad to service the people those idiots refused and their friends. So all the idiots accomplished was losing customers, and respectability outside their little circle of idiots.
It's actually a good thing that they are allowed to reveal themselves for the idiots they are. At least the rest of the world knows what they are dealing with.
Actually preventing service, as in, forbidding everyone from servicing someone based on religion, race, sexual orientation or whatever, well, that is wrong, sure.
But allowing people to show themselves for who they are? Why the heck not.
"You there!"
"What?"
"THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT A FAGGOT WOULD SAY! GET HIM OUT OF HERE!"
I imagine it sort of goes like that. lol
How dare people have religious freedom in today's society. OMG AMIRITE GUZ.
It sad it came down to this, but here is the facts.
When the Federal government is pushing for "Gay marriage legalization everywhere." It is safe to say their will be some outrage among its citizens, some of those citizens are Lawyers, judges, whatever, so they know the law. They got a law passed, to fight the Federal mandated laws. A federal judge makes a decision that effects everyone in their state, people will find ways around it, to fight it. You didn't think there would be some blowback?
I'm surprised you would joke about six million dead.
Yellow badge
I'll joke about anything I find funny, as long as it's within reason (even though I didn't joke about it, just laughed at the thought of it).
As a Jew, I find it funny that the same mistake would be repeated, and that people will allow another case of genocide to occur.
It's not really a joke.
Religious freedoms shouldn't extend to restricting the lives of non-members of said religion.
They are preventing things - this law means that if a gay couple wants a cake from a shop in indiana for their wedding, they can legally be turned away just for their sexuality. I.e. they can be prevented from buying a cake at that store.
I feel bad for anyone gay living in most of the USA, seems like the nation is behind on gay "understanding" and treating gay's as equals. When I went to Montana last year it seemed pretty homophobic. I read a study that says in the USA 57% of all citizens believe in being gay (that its okay) and 80% of British Columbians (Western Canada) believe in being gay
Also Indiana and Arkansas can suck my ass, discriminatory fuckers.
Its a legal battle being waged, Personally i kind of agree with the laws to a point, you can't have freedom be a one way street. As long as its done in a legal/respectable way, i don't have a problem with it. When people start making a mountain over a molehill is what i have problems with.
I swear to god, it reminds me of the old adage.
She is like the woman who is crying she has no bread, when she has a ham under each arm.
This is bullshit. Like Flog said they have a right to be homophobic but this is just too much.
Ham tastes pretty bad.
Gay/Lesbian people are treated pretty well in America, better than me. I don't get special treatment, i don't have groups of females wanting to be friends with my PTSD ass.
They have it so bad... Ever been to Iraq?
Okay sorry but you cant pull that card dude.
Not as much as they should be generally, the south especially treats gay people bad and also they probably dont get treated better than you.. do business refuse to serve you because you've been to war? I highly doubt it, im not saying you dont have your own stuggles but please dont compare going to war with being gay.
Thats just a terrible stereotype that isnt really true about gay people
Pretty sure that theres lots of people wanting/willing to help you out with your PTSD. Such as friends, family, support groups, therapists and etc.
No, but going to war in the United States is something you're willing to do, you know that you are going into a war and will see some terrible shit. Gay people dont sign up to go live in America, also are you saying any first world issues dont matter because you've been to Iraq and seen way worse? Because thats kind of what it sounds like.
Right, they might be like that pizza restaurant that lost so much business from the gay community for not serving pizza at a wedding on the grounds it was a gay wedding. Except, they got 200,000 dollars (last I had heard, I'm sure it's substantially higher than that now) in support from idiots who agreed with their right to discriminate. Don't think they will be going out of business any time soon, unless they want to retire. (But to be fair, the support had a lot to do with the idiotic reception the restaurant received from the homosexual/homosexual supporting community.)
TBH i don't even care.
I care, but not enough to take any form of action aside from typing about it on an unassociated gaming forum. So it's safe to assume I don't care that much. Lol
Religion is a choice though. Just because someone is born into a religion doesn't mean they can't leave it for another belief (or lack of one) and be able to think for themselves once they reach a certain age, which I'm pretty sure is what Flog is talking about. Do you really think most atheists and agnostics born to Christian families in the US were always atheists and agnostics from the start while growing up? I mean, some probably were, but others most certainly weren't.
Except even the people who choose to stay with their religion have chosen to stay with their religion. They could change, they just haven't. Whether they think they can choose is irrelevant, they can choose. Just as I could choose to start following the religious teachings of Islam, but I choose not to.
Religion is not innate.
People is Saudi Arabia can choose to stop following the religion there, most don't because of the consequences.
At that store, yes. But, I don't know about you, I wouldn't even want the cake anymore at that point. Certainly wouldn't want to pay those people for it.
If this happens, the couple can and should just tell them to fuck off and get to another cake shop not run by morons. It's not their loss, it's the shop owner's.
Sorry for all the swearing, by the way. I don't usually write like this, but I can't really talk about bigoted people anymore kindly. Again, I'm glad that they get a change to reveal themselves, so we can deal with them accordingly.
I hope you are joking, but…
So, if I had a business, I have the right to refuse service to you because I see fit? So, instead of having more income, I refuse service to people based on things they can't choose ( sexual orientation, gender, race, etc.)? In my opinion, it is a bad idea for the business.
Sorry, but that's sickly homophobic. Can I refuse straight people service because I believe in something? Of course not! Who has a business based on ideas such as homophobia, sexism, racism (etc.) should not have a business.
I guess you agree with the idea of that, if the owner of the business was sexist/racist, she/he would ban any other person from a different sex/race. But, hey, the important thing is respect and blind obedience, right? (Sarcasm)
If you love religion so much, go back to the Middle Ages, where religion was as its prime. Yeah, the Middle Ages, where kings and queens were considered divine souls, most of the population was under a few and religion was the center of everything. I am no USA historian, but I think that it wasn't only for the religion the colonies wanted freedom.
i'm not going to get into a argument over something i have zero control over LOL.
Its like getting upset at Obama's mistakes. All i can do is just laugh and hope the bomb don't go off around me.
TBH you are right, i don't care. I've seen things that would make people puke, this is nothing to me. Like i said, Gay people in America could be living under another religions domination, i wonder how Draconian Muslim Faith would treat the Gay/Lesbian community.
Two Hams, no bread.
I live in the middle of no where. If the bomb hits me then the person dropping the bomb either has really bad aim or they are trying to kill our corn. Lol.
But I wasn't arguing with you, I pretty much agreed with you actually
Perfectly said.
#FREE MARKET MOTHERFUCKERS
But seriously, it's the choice of the damned business owners who they provide services to and not to. I don't care if they refuse people because they are clowns, lawyers, doctors, teachers, gays, whites, blacks, straights, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Catholic Priests, tall people, short people, men, women, poor people, rich people, people with mohawks, people with bowl cuts, people who enjoy dancing to Michael Jackson's "Thriller" while ordering their Subway sandwich, people under the age of 18, people over the age of 30, people with white hair, people in chicken costumes, or any other ridiculous reason they have. It is their business, and as a privately owned, funded, and organized company, it is well within their legal and economic rights to fuck themselves over and drive people away from their business. I know people don't like it because it lets people be discriminatory in their own private land under their basic rights, but if Joe Shmuck won't give you a sandwich because you have a pair of breasts, or because you're homosexual, then spread the word about the fact that the business itself is discriminatory based upon sexuality/gender, because as we've seen with the great outcry of this example, Joe Shmuck won't be getting a lot of public support if he refuses to serve people for those reasons.
Don't blame the state of Indiana for allowing private companies to make their own business decisions (which are not causing infliction of physical harm). Blame the companies that are stupid enough to commit economic suicide and actually refuse services to people for reasons of sexuality/gender.
I think it's pretty dumb, despite the fact that it's only being done to try and spite homosexuals, it's just a stupid idea that in the end is going to be their loss more than anyone else. Not only are they going to lose homosexual customers but also people who are willing to defend homosexuals as well, that's quite a bit of money that isn't going in their pocket, and as a business I'm pretty sure your main concern would be to get that $$$ before anything else, not trying to condemn homosexuals because you feel like it.