What if they included signs or indications prior to the ending? For example, have some scattered shipping containers with the Wellington logos on them start appearing as the episode progresses (since the place appears to be named after a shipping company, it would make sense from a lore standpoint). They would serve as landmarks/callsigns that, at the very least, give the group an indication that they're going the right way/that it exists, but also remain vague enough that Jane and the others arguing against Kenny's plan are still justified.
Actually I think it would've made more sense if there had been some Wellingtonian-scouts/scavengers that had found Clem, Kenny, and AJ, inst… moreead of Kenny etc. finding Wellington (and they'd have to find them before they died too >_>). Scouts could've been out dozens or hundreds of miles from Wellington and come across Kenny and them, and they could be several scavenging groups out at a time. But oh whoops, Kenny might just muck that situation up before he even realizes the scouts are from Wellington, and who knows where that situation might go.
:ahem: Anyway, I'll drop the sarcastic tone now. You've made some good points on this thread, dude. Nice.
I think the main reason they had the "9 Days later" slide was to make sure that all the Clems from the Kenny-, Jane-, and alone-endings all had Clems that were the same age. Otherwise people might wonder if one player's Clem is significantly older than another's.
If they had different, yet realistic time frames for each ending, that would've worked better for me. But I don't think TT would've done that for simplicity's sake for season 3 planning.
The way the endings are presented, they could just as easily be taking place 2 hours later instead of 9 days.
Ugh. If Kenny had found Wellington after 2 hours I cannot begin to express how frustratingly improbable that would be.
I still think the whole "9 days later" slide was unnecessary as it is
It has no impact on any of the endings, and since it's treated as s… moreuch a minor passage of time by the narrative, I don't see why it needs to be pointed out
The "3 months later" in Starved For Help had a purpose being there, and was passage of time had a very obvious impact on the group that was worth mentioning/acknowledging (inclusion of a new survivor, the fortification of the motor inn, the lack of food, etc).
The "16 months later" in All That Remains had a purpose being there, was a passage of time that had tremendous mental and physical impacts on both characters, and since it was a major passage of time (over a year long) it made sense for it to be established
The ~1 week timeskip in between Starved For Help and Long Road Ahead didn't really need to be pointed out, because it wasn't an overly important detail at that point in the story, nor did that passag… [view original content]
Isk isk, Sialark if you're going to use realism so much, at least say it with some style :P now once more, with feeling:
And agreeing with what you said. If they knew exactly where Wellington was it might not have been such a crazy plan. Not knowing means they might've spent weeks trying to track the place down...in fact they did! It took 9 days to get to Wellington. They must've somehow gotten baby supplies before hand but it doesn't take away the risk the baby might've died in that time if they hadn't.
Jane was the option for me because, I can't just let myself allow Kenny to get away with murder, even if I think Jane's plan hiding the baby was stupid and I struggle to trust her, leaving Clem and the baby alone is worse.
Jane knew Kenny's plan to find Wellington in the freezing winter wilderness with a starving baby and just one gun made no sense. If you're g… moreoing for realism the Kenny endings are a sham because there's no way you can find a camp when you have no idea what state of the U.S. the camp is even in, and Kenny indeed had no idea where it was exactly. (He said it was "near Michigan," not "in Michigan.") That's a few hundred thousand square miles they'd have to search to find it--just a wild goose chase, stumbling around in the dark, with a starving kid, a starving baby, all in the middle of winter. If the writers wanted to go for realism, Kenny, AJ, and Clem should've been starving and barely able to walk by the time they found Wellington, if they had even been able to find it at all before freezing to death. If you were going for REALISM, Kenny, AJ, and Clem would be DEAD in Kenny's endings.
Jane suggested Howe's because it was the nearest shelte… [view original content]
Neither, I can't stand either of them, I honestly think they were both more of a child then Clementine was.
Remember the car ride, i kept thinking back to when i was a child, hearing my dad threaten to turn the car around and drive home if us kids wouldn't stop fussin.
Lol if they knew exactly where Wellington was, then that's an actual plan. Jane might've gone with them, if only to check the place out to see if it was safe. But then if that happened, oh no, * poof * no conflict! How will the writers create a climax for the season finale now with no contrived conflict?! Woe is them!
Not knowing means they might've spent weeks trying to track the place down...in fact they did! It took 9 days to get to Wellington.
Lol 9 days = almost 1.5 week(s)! ...Though that "s" is mostly optional. >.>
They must've somehow gotten baby supplies before hand but it doesn't take away the risk the baby might've died in that time if they hadn't.
I should've noted before, since people keep forgetting (though I know you personally don't) that the reason I think Kenny and them would be dead in Kenny's endings is not only that it would take so long to find Wellington, but that it would take so long and they had a baby. A hungry, crying baby that should draw walkers wherever they go. And honestly Kenny didn't even have a clear direction to go in to find Wellington--once you're in Michigan, do you go north? South? East, west? Vs. Howe's, which we knew exactly how to get back to and exactly how long it would take to get there. The longer Kenny and them would be out there, the more likely it would be that AJ will get hungry and cry and draw walkers towards them. Jane and them wouldn't be out there for months and months since they just went to Howe's, so the risk of walkers coming towards them because of AJ is significantly less with her. Especially if Kenny refused to stop anywhere before finding Wellington (he seemed to be set on going straight there.)
Isk isk, Sialark if you're going to use realism so much, at least say it with some style :P now once more, with feeling:
And agreeing… more with what you said. If they knew exactly where Wellington was it might not have been such a crazy plan. Not knowing means they might've spent weeks trying to track the place down...in fact they did! It took 9 days to get to Wellington. They must've somehow gotten baby supplies before hand but it doesn't take away the risk the baby might've died in that time if they hadn't.
Jane was the option for me because, I can't just let myself allow Kenny to get away with murder, even if I think Jane's plan hiding the baby was stupid and I struggle to trust her, leaving Clem and the baby alone is worse.
Lol if they knew exactly where Wellington was, then that's an actual plan. Jane might've gone with them, if only to check the place out to s… moreee if it was safe. But then if that happened, oh no, * poof * no conflict! How will the writers create a climax for the season finale now with no contrived conflict?! Woe is them!
Not knowing means they might've spent weeks trying to track the place down...in fact they did! It took 9 days to get to Wellington.
Lol 9 days = almost 1.5 week(s)! ...Though that "s" is mostly optional. >.>
They must've somehow gotten baby supplies before hand but it doesn't take away the risk the baby might've died in that time if they hadn't.
I should've noted before, since people keep forgetting (though I know you personally don't) that the reason I think Kenny and them would be dead in Kenny's endings is not only that it would take so long to find Wellington, but that it would take so lon… [view original content]
I think the main reason they had the "9 Days later" slide was to make sure that all the Clems from the Kenny-, Jane-, and alone-endings all had Clems that were the same age. Otherwise people might wonder if one player's Clem is significantly older than another's.
Didn't they already do that with Amid The Ruins and the choice of either leaving right away or letting Rebecca rest, though? In indeterminate amount of time passes depending on that choice, which means that the ages of the characters and the exact day episode 5 takes place are already determinant.
I think the main reason they had the "9 Days later" slide was to make sure that all the Clems from the Kenny-, Jane-, and alone-endings all … morehad Clems that were the same age. Otherwise people might wonder if one player's Clem is significantly older than another's.
If they had different, yet realistic time frames for each ending, that would've worked better for me. But I don't think TT would've done that for simplicity's sake for season 3 planning.
The way the endings are presented, they could just as easily be taking place 2 hours later instead of 9 days.
Ugh. If Kenny had found Wellington after 2 hours I cannot begin to express how frustratingly improbable that would be.
I think the main reason they had the "9 Days later" slide was to make sure that all the Clems from the Kenny-, Jane-, and alone-endings all … morehad Clems that were the same age. Otherwise people might wonder if one player's Clem is significantly older than another's.
If they had different, yet realistic time frames for each ending, that would've worked better for me. But I don't think TT would've done that for simplicity's sake for season 3 planning.
The way the endings are presented, they could just as easily be taking place 2 hours later instead of 9 days.
Ugh. If Kenny had found Wellington after 2 hours I cannot begin to express how frustratingly improbable that would be.
Excellent post. You nailed it on the head with why Kenny's plan, by all logic and reasonable realism in a story, was extremely flawed and ra… moren on nothing but pure speculation and luck.
Wellington being real all along in spite of having no proof of its existence, and the three having found the community with no sense of direction or resources in just over a week is a major cop-out. It's no wonder why Kenny's endings felt pretentious, cliché, and less natural compared to Jane's endings.
Ugh. If Kenny had found Wellington after 2 hours I cannot begin to express how frustratingly improbable that would be.
You know what… more would have been even better than 2 hours?
Kenny stabs Jane
Snowstorm ends and a welcome to Wellington sign is in front of them
The key word I said was, "Other people might wonder if one player's Clem is significantly older than another's."
The Amid the Ruins scenario was a difference of a few days. And it was implied nothing much happened in those days either; they just stayed at the observation deck. The time difference between Kenny's and Jane's endings should be at least several months for it to make sense to me. Plus in the endings they were out in the wilderness, where many more things could happen than staying on the observation deck for an extra day or two.
And in addition to what you were saying before, I wanted to say that I'm personally annoyed with how the endings turned out, because Jane should've been right. Kenny shouldn't have gotten to Wellington so easily, and consequently most people think Jane's reasoning for baiting Kenny was to "steal" Clem away from Kenny when really Jane was trying to protect Clem too. Having Kenny's endings end the way they did gives people reason to say, "See? Kenny was right all along. Jane the bitch was wrong; they got to Wellington completely fine. Jane had no reason to take on Kenny." If Clem and AJ were extremely malnourished in Kenny's endings, I wonder how many people would replay their endings so they could end up somewhere other than with Kenny, rather than replay their ending like some people did so they could end up with Kenny in what seemed to some to be the most "satisfying" ending to them.
I think the main reason they had the "9 Days later" slide was to make sure that all the Clems from the Kenny-, Jane-, and alone-endings all … morehad Clems that were the same age. Otherwise people might wonder if one player's Clem is significantly older than another's.
Didn't they already do that with Amid The Ruins and the choice of either leaving right away or letting Rebecca rest, though? In indeterminate amount of time passes depending on that choice, which means that the ages of the characters and the exact day episode 5 takes place are already determinant.
Ugh. If Kenny had found Wellington after 2 hours I cannot begin to express how frustratingly improbable that would be.
You know what… more would have been even better than 2 hours?
Kenny stabs Jane
Snowstorm ends and a welcome to Wellington sign is in front of them
The key word I said was, "Other people might wonder if one player's Clem is significantly older than another's."
Ah, right
Well, looks like I forgot how to read again
And for the second part, I actually like the idea of having them be on the brink of starvation and exhaustion in Kenny's ending. That'd also have the extra benefit of adding more weight to the final choice to stay with Kenny or not. If you're already on the brink of death, it gives you more incentive and reason to actually go into Wellington rather than risk almost certain death with Kenny. It'd also balance out the endings a bit more. Staying with Kenny is too idealistic as it stands currently, I'll agree on that. That ending is played out as a "happy ending" and doesn't really focus on the downsides of going back out into a snow-covered wasteland.
I'm not going to lie, I'm a fan of the Wellington ending, but I do agree that the way it's handled makes it seem like they reached the place far too easily and without a hitch. I mean sure, we could assume that they found some signs and stuff along the way, but that's a long shot when we're not shown anything that really supports that possibility.
I'd go back to my above suggestion: add some callsigns/landmarks that indicate Wellington's real. Have some shipping containers pop up throughout episode 5, maybe with some vague hints scrawled on them: an arrow pointing in the right direction, or something like that. You could also have these pop up before you reach the unfinished house, with Kenny suggesting they just follow the signs instead of trusting Arvo, only for the rest of the group to decide to keep following Arvo, knowing his place is closer than Wellington is.
This would also give Kenny and Jane some direction when they're in the truck. As it stands, they're driving down the road, but where exactly are they going? They're driving aimlessly down a road with no indication that anything worthwhile is even in that direction. Having a sign would solve that pretty much entirely. Perhaps you stick one along the road, with Kenny responding to it like "There's another sign, we're going the right way" while Jane is still skeptical of it, which would lead into the current argument that breaks out between them about where to go.
Also, Jane and the rest of the group's reservations about marching into the snow will still be valid in spite of the signs: they still don't know the exact location of it, and there's the chance that the place might not still be standing even if they do reach it.
That way, Wellington still stays a 'risk vs. reward' situation, except that it's much more grounded in logic and reason than it is currently. It also makes the 'risk vs. reward' argument much more even overall, since there's definite proof of Wellington's existence this way: do you keep pushing forward despite the risks, or do you try to cut losses and head back South?
For comparison, the way it is currently, the argument goes more like: do you keep trudging North through the snow in order to hunt down a needle in a freezing haystack, or do you do the smart thing and head in a different direction that won't get you killed?
Maybe tweak the way the Kenny endings start: have it open with a camera shot of another Wellington container, but one with extra stuff on it indicating that they're nearly there. Then you have a scene of Clem and Kenny trudging along some distance down the road, tired and hungry, before noticing the plume of smoke off in the distance above the trees. Cut to them approaching the hill that they run up in the original ending, and have it play out as usual from there.
The key word I said was, "Other people might wonder if one player's Clem is significantly older than another's."
The Amid the Ruins scena… morerio was a difference of a few days. And it was implied nothing much happened in those days either; they just stayed at the observation deck. The time difference between Kenny's and Jane's endings should be at least several months for it to make sense to me. Plus in the endings they were out in the wilderness, where many more things could happen than staying on the observation deck for an extra day or two.
And in addition to what you were saying before, I wanted to say that I'm personally annoyed with how the endings turned out, because Jane should've been right. Kenny shouldn't have gotten to Wellington so easily, and consequently most people think Jane's reasoning for baiting Kenny was to "steal" Clem away from Kenny when really Jane was trying to protect Clem too. Having Kenny's endings end the way t… [view original content]
...I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not lol. As in do you mean, "Sialark, you have no good argument to begin with, so what argument do you have in the first place to refute?" Or do you mean, "I agree with what you said; I legitimately don't see what much can be refuted?"
Anyway, I've seen you around and you seem like a cool reasonable guy/gal, so whatevs. Sorry if I came off as aggressive.
To reply to your original comment
Snowstorm ends and a welcome to Wellington sign is in front of them
Lol imagine the rest area was Wellington the whole time! Woodchuck Rest Area, you sly dog, you! (I love that name lol.)
...I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not lol. As in do you mean, "Sialark, you have no good argument to begin with, so what argumen… moret do you have in the first place to refute?" Or do you mean, "I agree with what you said; I legitimately don't see what much can be refuted?"
Anyway, I've seen you around and you seem like a cool reasonable guy/gal, so whatevs. Sorry if I came off as aggressive.
To reply to your original comment
Snowstorm ends and a welcome to Wellington sign is in front of them
Lol imagine the rest area was Wellington the whole time! Woodchuck Rest Area, you sly dog, you! (I love that name lol.)
Those details like a container here and there or a sign would be nice, if their appearances were spaced out during the episode; they definitely would have contributed to Kenny's plan to make it look less ridiculous, and would've made the Kenny/Jane choice just a smidge harder for me at least. I think I would even like Kenny slightly more (or hate Kenny slightly less lol) if those changes were in the game. Have a like, good sir.
But, I don't think adding those details would completely work. If there were so many more signs that Wellington did indeed exist, I don't think Jane would've gone as far as baiting Kenny with the baby, trying to get rid of the guy. Yeah, I think Jane and Kenny would argue still, but I don't think the conflict would grow so much to the point that Jane would go to the lengths she had, reaching the "climactic conflict" of their fight in episode 5. She'd recognize, just like the player would recognize, that Kenny's plan had at least some merit, and Wellington did at least exist, at least at some point in time. If there were even mile markers on those signs and it indicated they were closer to Wellington than to Howe's, I imagine Jane might then actually go to Wellington with Kenny, Clem, and AJ, if only to at least check it out, in the most skeptical way possible lol.
But again if that happened, where's TellTale's big huge final conflict of their season? Nowhereee. However if the final choice would be between going to find a Wellington like you described vs. going to find Howe's (rather than between Jane vs. Kenny) then woo-wee would that be a much harder choice! And then if Kenny and Jane actually cooperated, there'd be no need for an alone ending either.
The key word I said was, "Other people might wonder if one player's Clem is significantly older than another's."
Ah, right
Well, … morelooks like I forgot how to read again
And for the second part, I actually like the idea of having them be on the brink of starvation and exhaustion in Kenny's ending. That'd also have the extra benefit of adding more weight to the final choice to stay with Kenny or not. If you're already on the brink of death, it gives you more incentive and reason to actually go into Wellington rather than risk almost certain death with Kenny. It'd also balance out the endings a bit more. Staying with Kenny is too idealistic as it stands currently, I'll agree on that. That ending is played out as a "happy ending" and doesn't really focus on the downsides of going back out into a snow-covered wasteland.
I'm not going to lie, I'm a fan of the Wellington ending, but I do agree that the way it's handled makes it seem l… [view original content]
Jane was just doing what she thought was best and wanted what was best for the baby. When I played, I let Kenny kill Jane, but then I shot Kenny and then Clementine was alone with AJ. One more thing, WHO fakes a baby's death and then put a baby in a car (JANE)?
I stayed with Jane because she doesn't act like a dick to you and also because SHE TEACHES YOU SOMETHING Insted of Kenny nooooo kenny no fuck him he bitches at everything
Kenny: we need to go to Wellington
Me: we could go to Howes and get some supplies I mean it was full of food
Kenny: WE NEED TO GO TO WELLINGTON NOW!
Me: but Howes has food maybe we can go there then we can head to Wellington
Kenny: WELLINGTON NOW!
Oh oh and don't even get me started on when he told Clementine did she loose her taste for this??? Is he talking about when HE killed carver cause I mean clem didn't kill carver I mean yea shot him in the ear when you get the gun but she didn't kill him I mean she does have good in her like Lee taught her damn
Oh oh and when Kenny threatens to hit clem when she said she wished Lee never looked for her I mean I kinda understand the fact that Lee went to save her but come on she blames herself already for lees death he doesn't need to threaten clem without asking that's a dick move
Oh and when you try to save sarita he still treats you like shit I mean come on Kenny was nowhere near sarita or clem to even save her can you blame Clementine for quick thinking either way sarita was ganna die no matter what Kenny didn't even thing to cut off Saritas hand when they got away from the heard so Kenny was stupid and a dick for no reason (plus it's the fact that he went with someone else it just makes me wonder did he really forget about his wife??? I mean even to me that's a dick move to me )
Kenny doesn't teach you anything he just bitches and complains when he doesn't get his way
Like if you tell him to let Mike take the walkie talkie he still gives it to you PUTTING YOU IN DANGER!
Jane helps you she teaches you to make sure the walkers stay dead she even goes to help sarah if you ask her she tries and then she comes back for you after she leaves she does anything to help you
Kenny acts before he thinks I'm glad you can shoot Kenny he deserves to die after all the crap he pulled on Lee and Clementine so I'm glad he's dead
Jane, she's proven that she won't hate Clementine even though she can put her in danger multiple times, she's shown that she can change in just a short amount of time and that Clementine actually has an effect on her character, she's saved Clementine more than Kenny ever has, she actually taught Clementine some new survival tricks and also, she often thinks about the state of the group and possible outcomes, even though that pretty much meant her foreshadowing that everyone would die.
Jane was not doing what she thought was best for Aj. She did was she thought was best for her....b/c she knew there was a good chance that Clem would choose Kenny if given an ultimatum
I stayed with Jane because she doesn't act like a dick to you and also because SHE TEACHES YOU SOMETHING Insted of Kenny nooooo kenny no fuc… morek him he bitches at everything
Kenny: we need to go to Wellington
Me: we could go to Howes and get some supplies I mean it was full of food
Kenny: WE NEED TO GO TO WELLINGTON NOW!
Me: but Howes has food maybe we can go there then we can head to Wellington
Kenny: WELLINGTON NOW!
Oh oh and don't even get me started on when he told Clementine did she loose her taste for this??? Is he talking about when HE killed carver cause I mean clem didn't kill carver I mean yea shot him in the ear when you get the gun but she didn't kill him I mean she does have good in her like Lee taught her damn
Oh oh and when Kenny threatens to hit clem when she said she wished Lee never looked for her I mean I kinda understand the fact that Lee went to save her but come on she blames herself already for lees death he… [view original content]
This is a myth. No one's ever taught Clem to check "fresh" walkers vs. old walkers for supplies; no one's ever taught Clem to double-tap walkers to make sure they're dead; no one's ever taught Clem to use a nail file to pick a lock or determinately to light a fire; no one's ever given her a useful tool (the awl/screwdriver) to take out the walkers quietly and efficiently without the weapon getting stuck.
and wanted what was best for the baby
Jane was not doing what she thought was best for Aj. She did was she thought was best for her....b/c she knew there was a good chance that Clem would choose Kenny if given an ultimatum
This is a myth. No one's ever taught Clem to check "fresh" walkers vs. old walkers for supplies; no one's ever taught Clem to double-tap wal… morekers to make sure they're dead; no one's ever taught Clem to use a nail file to pick a lock or determinately to light a fire; no one's ever given her a useful tool (the awl/screwdriver) to take out the walkers quietly and efficiently without the weapon getting stuck.
Lol I mean to say, Jane was the only person we've ever seen to teach Clem all that stuff. Aerie88 I think was talking about how Jane taught Clem to take down walkers by kicking their knees first--which Clem was shown to do during the bridge scene with Luke, and so some argue that it seems that Jane didn't teach Clem this skill, as she had used it before. No matter the debate on that knee-kicking thing, I was trying to show that there were many other skills that Jane showed Clem that no one's ever shown Clem before, as far as we've seen.
Oh and also Jane showed her the cow-catcher technique too to get through the walker herd; don't forget that.
I have trust issues when it comes to Jane. She left us once what's to stop her from leaving again. Kenny might be hot headed but he cares for Clem and AJ more then he cares for himself.
i chose Jane. i didnt want her death... i really LIKE Kenny (especially in season 1) he cares about Clem and AJ . I know that Jane was trying to
convince us to leave the group and she got this stupid plan at the end . i agree that Jane is a bitch (she wanted to leave Sarah!!) but...
I dont think that Jane would die for Clem but i chose her !! it was very hard desicion
Jane needed Clem to have her back, in her ideal plan there is just Clem as a partner without annoying baby. So she is not leader in her nature, she don't know what to do tomorrow - this is plan to nowhere till totally death. Kenny always has a plan and always did business while others like flock of sheep (after Pete's or Carver's death they were doomed) followed him fighting with and put a spoke in the wheel, but still followed. But this is rational. I don't think that in final decision Clem would think rationally more than emotionally.
I picked Jane.. However, I was surprised after realizing she was lying about AJ.. I left her and ended up alone.. I wanted to replay the ending and save Kenny, but that wouldn't be it.. The game is based on choices and choices do have consequences.. You have to deal with them..
Kenny ! It was my favorite character, besides Lee, of course. I cried at the moment when you see he again on EP 2, I think. The "A house diveded" episode, when he get back to life before he lost his eye.
Comments
What if they included signs or indications prior to the ending? For example, have some scattered shipping containers with the Wellington logos on them start appearing as the episode progresses (since the place appears to be named after a shipping company, it would make sense from a lore standpoint). They would serve as landmarks/callsigns that, at the very least, give the group an indication that they're going the right way/that it exists, but also remain vague enough that Jane and the others arguing against Kenny's plan are still justified.
This shit again?
Edit: Jane has to go. We already have Molly and she wants to risk a baby.
I think the main reason they had the "9 Days later" slide was to make sure that all the Clems from the Kenny-, Jane-, and alone-endings all had Clems that were the same age. Otherwise people might wonder if one player's Clem is significantly older than another's.
If they had different, yet realistic time frames for each ending, that would've worked better for me. But I don't think TT would've done that for simplicity's sake for season 3 planning.
Ugh. If Kenny had found Wellington after 2 hours I cannot begin to express how frustratingly improbable that would be.
Isk isk, Sialark if you're going to use realism so much, at least say it with some style :P now once more, with feeling:
And agreeing with what you said. If they knew exactly where Wellington was it might not have been such a crazy plan. Not knowing means they might've spent weeks trying to track the place down...in fact they did! It took 9 days to get to Wellington. They must've somehow gotten baby supplies before hand but it doesn't take away the risk the baby might've died in that time if they hadn't.
Jane was the option for me because, I can't just let myself allow Kenny to get away with murder, even if I think Jane's plan hiding the baby was stupid and I struggle to trust her, leaving Clem and the baby alone is worse.
Remember the car ride, i kept thinking back to when i was a child, hearing my dad threaten to turn the car around and drive home if us kids wouldn't stop fussin.
I agree, i can't stand either of them.
Evil never dies, it just gets transferred from person to person, like a infectious virus.
Lol if they knew exactly where Wellington was, then that's an actual plan. Jane might've gone with them, if only to check the place out to see if it was safe. But then if that happened, oh no, * poof * no conflict! How will the writers create a climax for the season finale now with no contrived conflict?! Woe is them!
Lol 9 days = almost 1.5 week(s)! ...Though that "s" is mostly optional. >.>
I should've noted before, since people keep forgetting (though I know you personally don't) that the reason I think Kenny and them would be dead in Kenny's endings is not only that it would take so long to find Wellington, but that it would take so long and they had a baby. A hungry, crying baby that should draw walkers wherever they go. And honestly Kenny didn't even have a clear direction to go in to find Wellington--once you're in Michigan, do you go north? South? East, west? Vs. Howe's, which we knew exactly how to get back to and exactly how long it would take to get there. The longer Kenny and them would be out there, the more likely it would be that AJ will get hungry and cry and draw walkers towards them. Jane and them wouldn't be out there for months and months since they just went to Howe's, so the risk of walkers coming towards them because of AJ is significantly less with her. Especially if Kenny refused to stop anywhere before finding Wellington (he seemed to be set on going straight there.)
Like I said good sir:
Heh heh XD
Didn't they already do that with Amid The Ruins and the choice of either leaving right away or letting Rebecca rest, though? In indeterminate amount of time passes depending on that choice, which means that the ages of the characters and the exact day episode 5 takes place are already determinant.
You know what would have been even better than 2 hours?
Kenny stabs Jane
Snowstorm ends and a welcome to Wellington sign is in front of them
I have to agree on that. It was all a coincidence.
Edith sees Kenny standing on top of Jane's corpse. Shoots him dead.
The key word I said was, "Other people might wonder if one player's Clem is significantly older than another's."
The Amid the Ruins scenario was a difference of a few days. And it was implied nothing much happened in those days either; they just stayed at the observation deck. The time difference between Kenny's and Jane's endings should be at least several months for it to make sense to me. Plus in the endings they were out in the wilderness, where many more things could happen than staying on the observation deck for an extra day or two.
And in addition to what you were saying before, I wanted to say that I'm personally annoyed with how the endings turned out, because Jane should've been right. Kenny shouldn't have gotten to Wellington so easily, and consequently most people think Jane's reasoning for baiting Kenny was to "steal" Clem away from Kenny when really Jane was trying to protect Clem too. Having Kenny's endings end the way they did gives people reason to say, "See? Kenny was right all along. Jane the bitch was wrong; they got to Wellington completely fine. Jane had no reason to take on Kenny." If Clem and AJ were extremely malnourished in Kenny's endings, I wonder how many people would replay their endings so they could end up somewhere other than with Kenny, rather than replay their ending like some people did so they could end up with Kenny in what seemed to some to be the most "satisfying" ending to them.
You know what would be interesting? If someone could actually refute my arguments.
What's there to refute?
Ah, right
Well, looks like I forgot how to read again
And for the second part, I actually like the idea of having them be on the brink of starvation and exhaustion in Kenny's ending. That'd also have the extra benefit of adding more weight to the final choice to stay with Kenny or not. If you're already on the brink of death, it gives you more incentive and reason to actually go into Wellington rather than risk almost certain death with Kenny. It'd also balance out the endings a bit more. Staying with Kenny is too idealistic as it stands currently, I'll agree on that. That ending is played out as a "happy ending" and doesn't really focus on the downsides of going back out into a snow-covered wasteland.
I'm not going to lie, I'm a fan of the Wellington ending, but I do agree that the way it's handled makes it seem like they reached the place far too easily and without a hitch. I mean sure, we could assume that they found some signs and stuff along the way, but that's a long shot when we're not shown anything that really supports that possibility.
I'd go back to my above suggestion: add some callsigns/landmarks that indicate Wellington's real. Have some shipping containers pop up throughout episode 5, maybe with some vague hints scrawled on them: an arrow pointing in the right direction, or something like that. You could also have these pop up before you reach the unfinished house, with Kenny suggesting they just follow the signs instead of trusting Arvo, only for the rest of the group to decide to keep following Arvo, knowing his place is closer than Wellington is.
This would also give Kenny and Jane some direction when they're in the truck. As it stands, they're driving down the road, but where exactly are they going? They're driving aimlessly down a road with no indication that anything worthwhile is even in that direction. Having a sign would solve that pretty much entirely. Perhaps you stick one along the road, with Kenny responding to it like "There's another sign, we're going the right way" while Jane is still skeptical of it, which would lead into the current argument that breaks out between them about where to go.
Also, Jane and the rest of the group's reservations about marching into the snow will still be valid in spite of the signs: they still don't know the exact location of it, and there's the chance that the place might not still be standing even if they do reach it.
That way, Wellington still stays a 'risk vs. reward' situation, except that it's much more grounded in logic and reason than it is currently. It also makes the 'risk vs. reward' argument much more even overall, since there's definite proof of Wellington's existence this way: do you keep pushing forward despite the risks, or do you try to cut losses and head back South?
For comparison, the way it is currently, the argument goes more like: do you keep trudging North through the snow in order to hunt down a needle in a freezing haystack, or do you do the smart thing and head in a different direction that won't get you killed?
Maybe tweak the way the Kenny endings start: have it open with a camera shot of another Wellington container, but one with extra stuff on it indicating that they're nearly there. Then you have a scene of Clem and Kenny trudging along some distance down the road, tired and hungry, before noticing the plume of smoke off in the distance above the trees. Cut to them approaching the hill that they run up in the original ending, and have it play out as usual from there.
...I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not lol. As in do you mean, "Sialark, you have no good argument to begin with, so what argument do you have in the first place to refute?" Or do you mean, "I agree with what you said; I legitimately don't see what much can be refuted?"
Anyway, I've seen you around and you seem like a cool reasonable guy/gal, so whatevs. Sorry if I came off as aggressive.
To reply to your original comment
Lol imagine the rest area was Wellington the whole time! Woodchuck Rest Area, you sly dog, you! (I love that name lol.)
Yeah I meant I agree with you. Also definitely a cool name for a rest stop.
Those details like a container here and there or a sign would be nice, if their appearances were spaced out during the episode; they definitely would have contributed to Kenny's plan to make it look less ridiculous, and would've made the Kenny/Jane choice just a smidge harder for me at least. I think I would even like Kenny slightly more (or hate Kenny slightly less lol) if those changes were in the game. Have a like, good sir.
But, I don't think adding those details would completely work. If there were so many more signs that Wellington did indeed exist, I don't think Jane would've gone as far as baiting Kenny with the baby, trying to get rid of the guy. Yeah, I think Jane and Kenny would argue still, but I don't think the conflict would grow so much to the point that Jane would go to the lengths she had, reaching the "climactic conflict" of their fight in episode 5. She'd recognize, just like the player would recognize, that Kenny's plan had at least some merit, and Wellington did at least exist, at least at some point in time. If there were even mile markers on those signs and it indicated they were closer to Wellington than to Howe's, I imagine Jane might then actually go to Wellington with Kenny, Clem, and AJ, if only to at least check it out, in the most skeptical way possible lol.
But again if that happened, where's TellTale's big huge final conflict of their season? Nowhereee. However if the final choice would be between going to find a Wellington like you described vs. going to find Howe's (rather than between Jane vs. Kenny) then woo-wee would that be a much harder choice! And then if Kenny and Jane actually cooperated, there'd be no need for an alone ending either.
done
Jane was just doing what she thought was best and wanted what was best for the baby. When I played, I let Kenny kill Jane, but then I shot Kenny and then Clementine was alone with AJ. One more thing, WHO fakes a baby's death and then put a baby in a car (JANE)?
I stayed with Jane because she doesn't act like a dick to you and also because SHE TEACHES YOU SOMETHING Insted of Kenny nooooo kenny no fuck him he bitches at everything
Kenny: we need to go to Wellington
Me: we could go to Howes and get some supplies I mean it was full of food
Kenny: WE NEED TO GO TO WELLINGTON NOW!
Me: but Howes has food maybe we can go there then we can head to Wellington
Kenny: WELLINGTON NOW!
Oh oh and don't even get me started on when he told Clementine did she loose her taste for this??? Is he talking about when HE killed carver cause I mean clem didn't kill carver I mean yea shot him in the ear when you get the gun but she didn't kill him I mean she does have good in her like Lee taught her damn
Oh oh and when Kenny threatens to hit clem when she said she wished Lee never looked for her I mean I kinda understand the fact that Lee went to save her but come on she blames herself already for lees death he doesn't need to threaten clem without asking that's a dick move
Oh and when you try to save sarita he still treats you like shit I mean come on Kenny was nowhere near sarita or clem to even save her can you blame Clementine for quick thinking either way sarita was ganna die no matter what Kenny didn't even thing to cut off Saritas hand when they got away from the heard so Kenny was stupid and a dick for no reason (plus it's the fact that he went with someone else it just makes me wonder did he really forget about his wife??? I mean even to me that's a dick move to me )
Kenny doesn't teach you anything he just bitches and complains when he doesn't get his way
Like if you tell him to let Mike take the walkie talkie he still gives it to you PUTTING YOU IN DANGER!
Jane helps you she teaches you to make sure the walkers stay dead she even goes to help sarah if you ask her she tries and then she comes back for you after she leaves she does anything to help you
Kenny acts before he thinks I'm glad you can shoot Kenny he deserves to die after all the crap he pulled on Lee and Clementine so I'm glad he's dead
Jane, she's proven that she won't hate Clementine even though she can put her in danger multiple times, she's shown that she can change in just a short amount of time and that Clementine actually has an effect on her character, she's saved Clementine more than Kenny ever has, she actually taught Clementine some new survival tricks and also, she often thinks about the state of the group and possible outcomes, even though that pretty much meant her foreshadowing that everyone would die.
Jane was not doing what she thought was best for Aj. She did was she thought was best for her....b/c she knew there was a good chance that Clem would choose Kenny if given an ultimatum
she teaches Clem something that she's already been doing to take down walkers
This is a myth. No one's ever taught Clem to check "fresh" walkers vs. old walkers for supplies; no one's ever taught Clem to double-tap walkers to make sure they're dead; no one's ever taught Clem to use a nail file to pick a lock or determinately to light a fire; no one's ever given her a useful tool (the awl/screwdriver) to take out the walkers quietly and efficiently without the weapon getting stuck.
You have no solid evidence of this.
????????????????
Lol I mean to say, Jane was the only person we've ever seen to teach Clem all that stuff. Aerie88 I think was talking about how Jane taught Clem to take down walkers by kicking their knees first--which Clem was shown to do during the bridge scene with Luke, and so some argue that it seems that Jane didn't teach Clem this skill, as she had used it before. No matter the debate on that knee-kicking thing, I was trying to show that there were many other skills that Jane showed Clem that no one's ever shown Clem before, as far as we've seen.
Oh and also Jane showed her the cow-catcher technique too to get through the walker herd; don't forget that.
I have trust issues when it comes to Jane. She left us once what's to stop her from leaving again. Kenny might be hot headed but he cares for Clem and AJ more then he cares for himself.
Yes, he does
Cool story bro.
I meant @Aerie88 has the evidence
There was no way in hell I was choosing Jane over Kenny. Not because I'm a hardcore Kenny fan, but because I just really can't stand Jane.
i chose Jane. i didnt want her death... i really LIKE Kenny (especially in season 1) he cares about Clem and AJ . I know that Jane was trying to
convince us to leave the group and she got this stupid plan at the end . i agree that Jane is a bitch (she wanted to leave Sarah!!) but...
I dont think that Jane would die for Clem but i chose her !! it was very hard desicion
Jane needed Clem to have her back, in her ideal plan there is just Clem as a partner without annoying baby. So she is not leader in her nature, she don't know what to do tomorrow - this is plan to nowhere till totally death. Kenny always has a plan and always did business while others like flock of sheep (after Pete's or Carver's death they were doomed) followed him fighting with and put a spoke in the wheel, but still followed. But this is rational. I don't think that in final decision Clem would think rationally more than emotionally.
I went with Jane. Regret nothing. I did my choice and i'm proud of it!
I picked Jane.. However, I was surprised after realizing she was lying about AJ.. I left her and ended up alone.. I wanted to replay the ending and save Kenny, but that wouldn't be it.. The game is based on choices and choices do have consequences.. You have to deal with them..
Kenny ! It was my favorite character, besides Lee, of course. I cried at the moment when you see he again on EP 2, I think. The "A house diveded" episode, when he get back to life before he lost his eye.
Holy crap, how long is it going to take before this debate ends?