What type of reforms do you think would help to make our prison system better?
Issuing the death penalty for all violent criminals.
Some of these people are beyond reform, and it doesn't make much sense to keep throwing money at a problem that is never going to improve.
And, not only are these people a menace to society, but they are also a menace to nonviolent prisoners as well.Forcing every prisoner to work.
There's an old saying: "Idle hands and minds are the devil's workshop."
Well unless these prisoners have something positive to do, they're just gonna get worse and worse.
It can be something simple, like digging a drainage ditch, or planting trees.
Also, why should they be allowed to just sit around all day and do nothing, while the we have to go to work, and not only provide for ourselves and our families, but then have to also pay for their room and board?
These are just 2 things that I think would help.
And I will add more at a later tie, so stay tuned.
But in the meantime, I invite you to share your ideas, both on what I've said, and what you think could help.
Comments
Close to 50% of USA prisoners in prison are in for nonviolent offenses involving drugs. The USA needs to reform how it handles drug offenses.
Surprising Fact: It actually costs more to legally execute a person than it does to imprison them for life.
They are usually kept in different parts and sometimes in different prisons, the killers aren't usually mingled with the guy who was charged with Tax Evasion (well....we've all seen Wealsey Smiles kill ppl :PPPP)
Some places do that but one problem is that the killers and stuff could use the tools to escape but places don't give the killers and stuff that opportunity so yeah, some prisons do that.
I think an important factor for the future is not what to do with the people in prison once they're there but what to do with people so they don't end up in prison by education at a young age and stuff.
Decriminalization of most drug related issues. Focus should be on rehabilitation, not punishment
Please tell me this isn't what you meant. Someone convicted of a crime of passion should be given anger management treatment and a timeout from society (ie, a few years in prison), not put to death.
Is that not currently the case? I always had it in my head that every prisoner had a job unless they were in solitary. Edit: just looked it up and, at least in federal prisons, everyone who's physically capable of working is required to work. I imagine it's the same in most State facilities.
In my opinion, we should be focusing on rehabilitating criminals whenever possible. Punishment should be secondary. If I had my way, we would model our prisons off what Norway is doing. They treat their prisoners like human beings, and around 20% of released criminals re-offend, as opposed to America's 75%. Surprise, surprise, if you treat people like animals, they'll act like animals. For reference, here's a typical Norwegian prison "cell":
Well, seeing how some people are beyond reform means everyone must receive the death penalty, is absolutely ridiculous. This means if someone punches someone, which is assault and a violent crime, they die.
We go to work because we get something out of it, money. You aren't forced to work. We can do loads of stuff with that money. Go to the beach, visit another country, etc. They can't do that. Sure we have to provide for ourselves and our families (if you even have one), we get the liberty to do things. They do nothing.
In most (all?) jurisdictions, prisoners are paid for their work. It's like a tenth of minimum wage, and they're encouraged to spend it in the prison commissary on stuff like snack food, but they're usually compensated.
In the words of Kareem Saïd from the HBO series Oz. "We don't need better prisons....we need better justice."
1.) No more mandatory minimum sentences for non-violent offenses. In what universe does it make sense to have a drug dealer spend more time in prison than a child rapist? But thanks to three-strikes and similar laws, small-time crack dealers can get anywhere from 10 years to life if they have prior convictions.
2.) Make high-school equivalency classes mandatory for dropouts and allow prisoners to pursue higher education behind bars. "Idle hands are the devil's playthings? Nope, but idle minds are. Inmates who earn a GED have a decreased likelihood of recidivism. Those who earn a college degree almost never re-offend.
3.) More drug counseling and pre-release training. Set prisoners up to learn a trade, rather than go back to stealing or pushing/doing drugs.
4.) As OP said, work is good, especially for violent inmates. A tired prisoner is less likely to get into fights or participate in other illegal activities.
Of course none of this could happen, because prisons are big business now and they need a steady flow of inmates to keep the shareholders happy. It's profitable to lock people up for as long as possible and to set them up for recidivism and failure.
The problem in America's prison system is that many U.S. prisons are owned by corporations. It's simply not profitable to run prisons to the same standards as those in Norway. Most of the time, they're maintained at the lowest standards possibly while still being considered livable.
So much this. Chances are most people who go to jail because of drug related issues will go right back to it when they get out
1.I honestly think the death penalty is just a pointless waste of life. Unless a person truly is beyond reform and out of touch with reality, then I'd make an exception. But the statistics show that the death penalty really isn't really a deterrent to violent crime.
As for my own thoughts, I think a general shift from punishment to rehabilitation would help reduce crime. Most people in prison just end up re-offending and back in prison. It's an endless cycle. Making sure they're able to re-enter society is better for them and their would-be victims, in my opinion.
I think norway goes over the top, It shouldnt be nice in prison, even if focused on rehabilitation its still a punishment, that room looks nicer than many peoples actual homes.
Like I said, it's not like Norwegian criminals are clamoring to get back into prison. Even a nice prison is still a prison. You lose your freedom and your life is basically on hold. In many cases, for years on end. It's still a punishment. Just a more tolerable one.
We already have a death penalty post, but I feel incredibly strongly about one you think said - I think the idea of using the death penalty to save money is an absolutely disgusting argument. If you are saying they're a menace that can't be rehabilitated, I disagree, but at least I can understand that opinion. I find it's a uniquely American sentiment that whenever we talk about somebody getting killed, whether the death penalty or police brutality, somebody is going to bring up their 'tax dollars,' as though those are more valuable that human life.
Also, guess what, prisoners do work. Prison labor is a large part of how we can maintain a cheap manufacturing base. As to why people don't have jobs - it's been a downward spiral particularly since the 70s, as deindustrialization took the jobs out of the inner city and white flight took out the capital. People talk about 'don't do drugs,' and as much as you shouldn't, in a lot of places that is the economy, and the prison industrial complex only ensures that's it's a self-perpetuating problem.
We need to do more to help people in prison, but what we really need to do is stop people from going to prison. You are inherently going to have a certain amount of crime in society, that is inevitable, but you're going to have a whole lot less when there is real opportunity for a decent standard of living. I'm not talking about two cars in suburbia, but job security, food security, and a halfway decent education sure go a long way.
And an easy no1 - no jail time for low-quantity no-violent drug offenses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p62BF1apkyY
^ This, right here.
I'm personally a big believer in suspended sentences for drug charges. Instead of sending a crack addicted to prison for 2 years, give him a 2 year suspended sentence and court-ordered drug treatment. If the drug-abuser gets clean and obeys the law, the possession charges get dropped after two years and the person's criminal record stays clean.
If they skip-out on rehab or re-offend, send em' back to court and let the judge decide if they should be thrown in jail or given another chance.
It's probably worth pointing out that the recidivism rates you mentioned would likely skyrocket if you made GED and/or college classes mandatory. It's a self-selecting sample. Prisoners who take the initiative to better themselves in prison are more likely to take the same initiative outside of prison. They should totally encourage prisoners to take advantage of the programs, though.
The statistics wouldn't look as nice, but it would still force prisoners to acquire the basic reading/math skills they need to get any legitimate employment outside of jail.
The OP sounds decent.
I agree 50/50 with this reform. Yeah, they are a menace to nonviolent prisoners and to society; but what if one was innocent and wrongly accused?
What I think is great would be a reform for seperating nonviolent criminals away from violent prisoners.
I agree 100% with this idea of yours. At least those prisoners will do something useful and, in the meanwhile, forced work will teach them next time to think twice before commiting a crime.
State sanctioned killings [Sorry didn't realize you disagreed with the capital punishment part. There's still no rehabilitation in locking violent criminals up with more violent criminals and throwing away the key] and slavery [a bit hyperbolic, but indentured servitude to privately own prison sweatshops is far more exploitative than constructive] Yay! [Obvious sarcasm]
Apparently it's still not tolerable enough for some.
But seriously. When someone who murders 77 people in your country's history gets sent to prison and his list of grievances sound like that of a spoiled 12-year old...I don't think you can call what you're doing "punishment" anymore. And while I'm supportive of the idea of prison not being about punishment so much as containment and rehabilitation, I do agree with Firewallcano that Norway's prison system goes way past "humane treatment" and ventures into "coddling."
I wish people would care more about what happens on the inside of prison more. Prison sexuality is at an all time high these days
Yeah...gotta be honest, if there were a box on my tax form that I could check to pay an extra 5 dollars in order to keep Charles Manson alive for another year...I probably wouldn't check that box.
To me, the whole debate comes to down to whether you want a system that punishes people or a system that rehabilitates people. You can't have both. I would accept "coddling" a few prisoners if it meant less crime.
I agree with you to a point. Should weed be made legal, yes. Should Meth, no.
Why can't you have both? Isn't there some balance that can be reached?
Here is my idea ,
Here is what i would do. You know how when you call tech support, you always get someone from india on the line, who you can't understand. They constantly say the word ok. So what if instead , we put the Prisoners to work on the phones doing tech support. That way they can earn money for their upkeep.
Sure. I meant punishment as in what most people think of as punishment. Shitty looking cells, nasty food, and all that. Why isn't taking away someone's freedom for a few years punishment enough? Why does it have to be a thoroughly miserable experience?
But is coddling Anders fuckin' Breivik really going to mean less crime? The guy massacred 77 people, including children. No amount of rehabilitative therapy is ever going to make it okay to release him back to the general public as a private citizen. So at this point, you're just coddling him for the sake of coddling him.
I agree too. Hard drugs like Meth and Heroin should be illegal and weed shouldn't anymore.
I agree, I never dealt with anyone on Meth, but i have known people whose Children took Heroin one time, and they ruined their lives. Its hard to see a woman you know emotionally break down and cry, telling you that her daughter is selling herself for heroin. What are you supposed to say to that, the words i am sorry just don't feel appropriate.
It would certainly force them to put those anger management sessions to good use.
I truly don't care what happens to Breivik as long as he stays under lock and key. No amount of punishment is going to bring those 77 people back to life.
I'm concerned with the general prison population. Throw the handful of truly unfixable people in a pit if you want. It shouldn't mean we give up on the rest.
At least it would give them something to do in prison, make some money, learn a trade. Outsourcing jobs to india isn't the answer.
It's horrible thing. My cousin struggles with heroin and it did ruin her life. The only thing we can do is to offer help in any way we can. And try to help them get off the stuff through lifestyle changes and rehab. It's a difficult process, but I believe it can work.
Sad, i wish her the best.
Thanks man. She is doing better and had a child a few years ago who's doing well too.
I care that the money I pay to the government isn't going towards funding a mass murderer's game library or raising his allowance. I don't need him to be tortured 24/7 for what he did, but I see no reason why he should be provided luxuries by the state. The state's job at that point is to simply keep him away from the public and it should do that job in the most efficient and cost-effective way possible.
I agree that we shouldn't give up on the general prison population, but that doesn't mean that we should shower them with amenities either. They committed a crime. That's a bad thing. It should be treated as a bad thing.
If you don't mind me opposing your deep and vast argument, here it is:
For what I've understood about what you said in your post about "State sanctioned killings" is: death penalty = capital punishment.
Umph... I was saying that I agreed with that violent criminals are a "menace to nonviolent prisoners and to society", but I disagreed with capital punishment since "what if one was innocent and wrongly accused?"
Is it clear now?
Well, so let's follow what Wikipedia says about slavery:
Okay then, let's start. "People can be treated as property". If we take the most common and accepted definition of property (I'll take the words of Guillermo Cabanellas, a historian, lawyer, editor, lexicographer and Spanish writer): property is the rule that an individual has about a certain thing, with which he/she can do what he/she wants.
So, the prisoners... have I ever said that we can hurt them? No. Have I ever said that we can assault them? No. Have I said that we can exploit them? No. Have I meant that we can do what the "owner" wants to do with the prisoner? No
Okay, next: "and can be owned (I have NOT said that), bought (I have NOT said that) and sold (I have NOT said that)".
Last, but not least: "and cannot withdraw unilaterally from the arrangement". Prisoners in countries, such as yours and mine, legally cannot withdraw unilaterally from the jails and prisons. That means they are slaves? No.
Hold on for a moment... are you happy because of "state sanctioned killings and slavery"? Damn, bro, I though different about you.
Anywho, if you read up to here, sorry for my short answer to you, but I tried to explain my ideas as simple as I could just for you. I hope you respond with an answer over 6 words. Thank you.
K.
1) Recognize prisoners as human beings worthy and capable of change, instead of as animals
Most criminals regret their actions after being incarcerated, yet are treated like livestock by the prison that is supposed to help prevent them from committing illegal acts in the future. Prison inmates are being beaten with fists and batons, stomped on, kicked, stunned with tasers, maced, choked, and slammed face first onto floors by the officers whose job it is to guard them. Inmates have ended up with broken jaws, smashed ribs, missing teeth, burn scars - not to mention physical and emotional pain. Some have died. Both male and female prisoners are victims of staff rape and sexual abuse. All this shows to criminals is that if you make a mistake, you are automatically considered less of a person and unworthy of basic respect and the opportunity to change.
2) Stop using solitary confinement as a form of punishment and realize that it does more harm than good
Solitary confinement is known to cause extreme trauma and mental illness in prisoners, including anxiety, PTSD, depression, paranoia & psychosis (often involving both auditory and visual hallucinations), uncontrollable irritability & hostility, self harm and even attempts of suicide. In California, it has been shown that inmates within a segregated housing unit are 33 times more likely to commit suicide than other prisoners incarcerated elsewhere. In some places in the US and other parts of the world, solitary confinement is being misused and abused by prisons, and are acting as a way to punish even mild misbehaviour from prisoners. Segregation does not fix the problem - it only magnifies any hint of mental illness and makes it worse. It should not be used as a "timeout". Prolonged isolation crushes the mind.
3) Recognize drug abuse as a health concern, not a crime
People involved with drugs who are convicted as criminals and incarcerated by the law are often done so due to being in possession of drugs or were under the influence of drugs at the time a crime was committed and are sometimes charged more harshly than more severe criminals are. Drug abuse should not be seen as a crime but as a public health concern, because addiction itself is not a crime. It is a disease and should be treated as such, with rehabilitation and treatment, not a cell. Addiction is not usually asked for. Because of this, anyone under the influence isn't fully aware or in control of their actions.
4) Separate nonviolent offenders from violent offenders to minimize the risk of prison violence
Nonviolent criminals such as thieves, embezzlers, arsonists, fraud artists or any other white collar criminal do not belong in the same place as violent criminals like murderers or rapists or those who have assaulted others. Not only will this make room for prison violence between prisoners, but it also opens doors for criminals to become influenced by inmates who have committed more severe acts. The only right way to prevent violent criminals from becoming a "menace to nonviolent prisoners" is not to kill the violent ones, but to separate them.
5) Provide appropriate psychiatric, behavioural and physical treatment to all prisoners
This one's pretty self-explanatory. Prisons shouldn't be a warehouse for the mentally ill by any means, but some inmates develop mental illnesses while being incarcerated and if that's the case, appropriate treatment and medication should be issued. The same goes for physical healthcare. The wellbeing of a prison's inmates should always come first.