The NEW Order Of The Stone & The Truth [EDIT 3] [Plot Discussion/Analysis] [Repeating Cycle?]
So as far as I see it, especially with the spinning amulet at the epiloge of Episode 2, the old order will pretty much decease once and for all and be replaced by our heroes. We already saw Jesse in the position of Soren, and possibly Petra in the position of Gabriel (or of course Gabriel remains).
In my opinion, and it is pretty obvious at this point, our crew will replace the other members as well, since to be honest, they with the exception of Gabriel have been rather inconsequential jerks thus far.
Jesse - Soren [Has proven himself in multiple occasions to be a decent and motivated architect, and capeable in general]
Petra - Gabriel [She has proven herself a valiant fighter]
Axel - Magnus [Axel is basically a less jerky version]
Olivia - Eleegard [Olivia is basically a more emotional, but less stern version]
Ivor - Either Lukas or Reuben. Reuben has shown to be quite a badass, but my theory on that is that Ivor is not necessarily the most villainous of villains, and that he was likely once a rather kind person, just like Lukas. But then he got somehow betrayed and forgotten, and I hypothesize/dread that the same will happen with the super-likeable friendly guy Lukas. I mean he pretty much already was a deviant from his own gang the Asscelots, the only kind guy, and he is certainly somewhat of an outisder in the current matchup of protagonists.
Everything just screams for a repeating cycle, and I hope we (Jesse) can break it so that Lukas can have a nice life as well and not become bitter like Ivor, trying to get vengeance. What I also dread is that the group will split up just like the original order. But the prologue of the first episode has already established that many legends were forgotten and became lies, and it already happened with the legend of the order, even though they are still alive. The possibility that this here is just a re-telling (since we have a narrator as prologue and epilogue) of a at least half-way forgotten legend is possible. I mean Jesse went from an average joe to quite a badass in less than a day, which seems... legend-ish if you catch my drift.
Say what you want about Minecraft: Story Mode, but the potential to craft a great story with interesting twists has certainly been established thus far. And who does not like some good ol' symbolism? (Even though I really hope Lukas will make it out fine and dandy. He deserves it in my opinion. He is just... soooooo likeable : 3)
EDIT 1: There can also be made an argument that Jesse will shift towards Ivor, as both have proven themselves to be all-rounders. Both can fight, both have technical igenuity, both certainly are determined. Ivor being at the center of the amulet does not only show he was the boss, but also that he inherits qualities from all the other members, just like Jesse inherits lots of qualities from his group of friends. So maybe the images in the amulet were simply a bit misleading, or it will indeed turn out that Lukas will be the Ivor of this generation, enforcing the cycle / chain of events. once more. This fits because Soren was once told to be the boss instead of Ivor, and Jesse is obviously the current leader of the gang.
EDIT 2.1: Another parallel between Ivor and Lukas, they are both somehwat cowardly and they both treasure knowledge, as you can constantly see Lukas reading books and only doing the reasonable and justified things instead of being rash like e.g. Axel. We have also seen Lukas to be a peace-seeking guy, always trying to be 'cool-o-rama' with Jesse and the others as well. Ivor seems to 'remember' when you act with intelligence and peacefulness, but is willing to stand up for himself if forced into a corner, just like Lukas did against Axel and in the forest with his friends.
Edit 3: Guess I was right after all. Maybe not in the details, but overall ^3^ Has been fun discussing everything.
Comments
I like your theory, and although Jesse is in Soren's position in the amulet in the end of the episode, I think that happened simply because Soren's position was the vacant one at the time. I think this is going to change. The game has been putting a huge emphasis on how Lukas is a great builder since the begining, so I think he would be the one to replace Soren, not Jesse.
I think it is pretty obvious that Ivor used to be the leader of the order, not Soren, seeing how Ivor's part of the amulet is in the center of it. I think that's the role Jesse will fill: The actual leader.
You have some good points but I think the whole comparison between who is who in the group is a bit off (in my opinion).
If we are going off the 'four members' story then I would say this:
Jesse = Gabriel
Olivia = Ellegaard
Axel = Magnus
Lukas = Soren
I can't really see Ivor actually fitting with anybody otherwise I would do it in terms of the 'five members' but it seems like no one in the group really knows about or knows how to make potions and that seems to be Ivor's thing, so I'm kinda leaving Petra out of this one.
I think these pictures pretty much sum it up:
Everyone's with their 'parallel' I guess, except Lukas but I imagine if Soren was there Lukas would be talking to him.
Anyway, I don't really think it's a repeating cycle. It seems to be a completely different age to when the Order slayed the Ender Dragon. I guess, now it could be different. Jesse, Olivia, Axel, Lukas, they might have their parallel's to the Order but they are different from the Order at the same time. They also have different goals. The Order set out to kill a dragon that was no threat to the entire world while Jesse and his gang have set out to kill the worst threat that could ever exist on a Minecraft world.
Sure, I thought the same way, but it is odd that the positions would suddenly change between them. It still makes sense for Jesse, as he is also a capeable builder, and he is the leader of his 4-man group (Axel, Olivia & Reuben), just like Soren was told to be, even though it was Ivor who was really in charge.
Maybe a personal conflict between Ivor and Soren will be revealed, which will possibly occur between Lukas and Jesse as well, adding to my theory of the cycle.
Nice post. You actually convinced me that Jesse's role would be the same as Gabriel.
Does that scene happen if you chose to wait until morning?
What convinced you? XD :P
And yeah it does, it was nice to see the extra scene.
An excellent point Kateis. I definetly see your arguments, but it is nice you acknowledge mine as well. I thought at first Gabriel being Jesse as well, and Lukas being Soren also made sense. There are certainly arguments for both and against both our theories.
The entire situation especially gets complicated if Petra is in place of Gabriel.
The pictures, that I didn't see before because all the playthroughs I watched decided to go at night, and the decision to not include Petra in the parallels, which I haven't considered.
Ikr! That's why I liked Gabriel being there on my alternate playthrough because I could see the parallel more than when Petra is there.
I agree that Jesse is filling Gabriel's role as The Warrior. He definitely show a lot of skills with the sword during the fight against Ivor. It is impressive actually, how Ivor used a speed potion and invisibility potion and Jesse still managed to defeat him.
Nice! I'm glad it was partly the pictures, screenshots are kind of my thing so I'm glad I could use them well. :P
That's probably what made me see it the most. That fight was amazing, Jesse definitely has some skills. Everyone knows how hard it is to even get a hit on anyone using an invisibility potion, you really need a sharp eye to catch when they hold an object so, Jesse the Warrior! :P
They also hurt my heart because my poor Lukas looks so lonely there
At least Reuben is nearby.
In the end of episode 2 when the amulet was shown, in the colored parts you could see the members of the order and the "new" order, Jesse's group.
Gabriel or Petra was shown on the light blue stick, the warrior.
Magnus and Axel on the green stick, the rogue.
Olivia and Ellegaard on the red stick, the engineer.
Ivor was in the middle one, which was dark blue, probably the alchemist (and I think the original leader).
Jesse on the gray stick, the architect and leader of the order.
Now Soren wasn't shown, but that's because we didn't meet him yet, and I also think or at least hope that his disciple will be Lukas - who didn't appear on the amulet as well.
Jesse's "class" is kinda... Blurry. He/she seems to be a good builder, but also a warrior, obviously the leader of the "new" order. Maybe we will be able to decide what we wan't to be.
There's something I noticed about the amulet. When Jesse falls down (near the end, in Soren's base) after the creeper attacked him/her and Gabe/Pet runs off to get help, the amulet starts to glow in dark blue. Maybe it's nothing, or just so we can see in the dark... But it would be interesting if the parts of the amulet would glow in different places when different people of the team picks it up. For example, Axel picks it up and its green rod starts to glow or something.
That fight was the highlight of episode 2 for me.
It really made Jesse a badass.
I know...
He's always so alone but at least Jesse is his bff so you know, it's all good because Jesse talks to him a lot, they are best friends that I currently do not totally do not ship what so ever, at all... Ok maybe I do ship it a little bit, that was a lie. They are my favourite ship after GarJon. :P
I like how everyone sits in the same pose, they really are a team!
I would not ship them, but I think they can be swell friends ^^ I'm definetly working towards that goal.
Yeah, the parallels simply shift depending on who is there, but it makes sense again in the context of it being a re-told legend that might not contain the full truth. It is constructed in such a way that no matter what happens, the parallels are still there.
Yeah, at first I believed Jesse to be a parallel for Gabriel as well, but Petra is also a good candidate and once the epilogue amulet was shown with Jesse in Soren's place, it almsot made sense. He is the leader of their group with decent creativity and determined to build and craft good stuff. There are arguments for both sides.
Minecraft does not need animations ^^
That was exactly what I said, but thanks for recapping it ^^
And yeah, Jesse is kinda the allrounder.
It shines dark blue because dark blue is the color of Ivor, and obviously Ivor is nearby.
Guess, I didn't think of it that way...
Truth Behind The Game - it's very masonic.
I think the parallels are
Jesse = Ivor
Olivia = Ellegaard
Axel = Magnus
Petra = Gabriel
Lukas = Soren
Hey, no hard feeling Wallethead. ^^
You think the order of the stone is a reference ot the free masons? That... hmm... gotta think about that.
Thought the same, but then the amulet at the end of episode 2 showed Jesse in Soren's place, hence Lukas will probably be in Ivor's place.
I don't think it's right to call Lukas a coward anymore because of these pictures right here:
He fights, he doesn't freeze up, he comes down to help you which could have possibly ended in death for him. It was one time that he froze up and sorry to quote him but "I wasn't at my best for one second." That line clearly suggests that normally he would fight, Petra even says that Lukas has helped her out in tricky situations so I'm guessing the Witherstorm was just a bit much for him and his fear took over him, there was nothing he could do about that. He seems to be quite brave and he's definitely resourceful and I think episode 2 has proved he is not a coward.
Yeah, he definitely proved that at least he will fight. It is understandable that someone would freeze in a situation like that. He didn't even have a weapon at the time.
Now, I am not 100% sold on the "I totally fell on purpose to help you and didn't slip at all" thing, but if he really jumped in a dark pit just to help Jesse, having no idea what was in the bottom of it, that was very brave of him. I hope he is not getting reckless to try to prove he isn't a coward, I don't want him to get hurt.
I think that's the part that everybody forgets, how do people expect him to do something if he doesn't have a weapon? :P Another thing to add to that is, he didn't go through the portal. The others did, that shows at least some bravery, he could have just gone through.
I don't think he was trying to prove he isn't a coward, I think (if he did go down there because Jesse fell) he went down there because he knew Jesse might be in trouble and he wants to help him.
I'm starting to think that Lukas has been trying to befriend Jesse for a while but has been shut down not only by Jesse but his own group as well. The reason I began thinking this was after this conversation:
To me, I think Lukas is trying to be a really good friend to Jesse because, I think he cares about him a lot. Now, I have no idea why this is, why would he want to help someone who has been his rival for years in fact more than that, both sides seem to hate each other so I have no idea why Lukas would want to be friends. But he seems to respect Jesse so I don't know, I just ship them and I really want it to be because he has a crush on Jesse. Can I hope that?
When I saw Lukas for the first time, I thought maybe that Jesse and Lukas has some past history. I got a vibe that they used to be friends or something.
Anyway, my Jesse has never hold any grudge toward Lukas and has been nothing but kind and understanding toward him.
Yeah, Lukas is definelty trying to prove himself and shows bravery, but Ivor too fought when he was pushed into a corner, and in the forest, so were Lukas and the others. Maybe they are not huge cowards, but they have shown minor cowardiss at some points. I guess I simply was a bit overexagurating ^^ Great point Kateis.
Well, He was just supposed to come and drag either Petra of Gabriel down from the beam, which did not require a weapon. And yeah, right... he was so worried about Petra that he did not go.
Yeah, I think so too that he for some reason wants to be good friends with Jesse, but it is hard to tell how fate will change things. As the narrator already said, close friends can become arch enemies. Another potential parallel?
Oooh, interesting point. Now I really want to know so more backstory to see if you're right! :P
Same with my Jesse, I fell in love with Lukas from the get go so I wasn't planning on being mean to him or anything.
Lukas was not cornered when he fought. He could have hidden behind any of the many companions nearby. He could have gotten up a tree. He could have dug a hole in the ground and closed himself in it until the fight was over. He could have ran in front of everyone and left his companions to fight. Ivor had no choice. Lukas choose to fight.
Lukas was supposed to run in the middle of the tentacles of the Witherstorm, fighting these tentacles like Jesse did, so that he could reach either Gabriel or Petra. So yeah, a weapon would have been pretty useful. Another thing: Have you ever held a weapon in a situation of peril? It makes us feel a little less scared, because at least we are not completely defenseless. Maybe if Lukas had a weapon back then, he wouldn't have frozen. Even if he didn't use that weapon, it would have been useful to have one.
Also... Being frozen in fear in one situation (a pretty scary and absurd one) doesn't make a person is a coward. If that happened over and over again, if he left his friends and went hide somewhere, then sure, but that wasn't the case. You know who else also froze once? Luke, in The Walking Dead Season 2. How many other times he risked his life for his friends, though?
Wal... Wal-wallethead...?
big bro laughs in the background
^3^
Jack laughs in the background
Okay to be fair, I have not played the Walking Dead, so potential parallels there go right over my head. And I have already revised my argument in stating that both Ivor and Lukas have shown signs of cowardice, not that they are utter cowards. It was an overexaguration that I take back.
Nonetheless, an excellent point against my suggestion, and a nice psychological analysis as well.
Oh I overanalyze characters all the time, so it might be just that too :P
Lukas is a lot like TWD S2's Luke. They not only have similar names, but they also have the same voice actor, they are both extremely nice to the protagonist, they both froze once while the protagonist was trying to save someone, there is a scene in TWD S2 that is very similar to the "cookie scene" in the first episode of MCSM... And there are some similarities that are too vague to be intentional, but they are there (like how you can tell Luke you would "always come back for him", and if you go back to save Lukas from the Iron Golem he thanks you for coming back for him).
You can never overanalyze things ^^ It is both fun and informative to analyze what has already been established or is supposed to go over one's head [cough cough MGS V PT cough cough]
Ah I see, well I suppose to attract more TellTale fans than Minecraft fans, they figured they could take some elements from other franchises and implement them here. Luke = Lukas; Olivia is basically Sasha and Jesse Rhys from Tales From The Borderlands; and so on and so on ^^
But hey, cool to know.
Don't worry, I respect you Rhys. That's why I'm gonna make you my assistant... vice... janitor.