Should be about quality of acting for awards not your race to decide if you picking people for race over talent when the awards are talent based that is racism. If actors or actresses are talented they will get chosen it will be as diverse as the talent that year.
I agree that it should be the quality of acting, and last year there has been some great acting of some people of color. For example, Will Smith in Concussion. He was excellent in that movie. I was quite disappointed that even the movie didn't get a nomination. I guess it is just some people's opinions.
Should be about quality of acting for awards not your race to decide if you picking people for race over talent when the awards are talent b… moreased that is racism. If actors or actresses are talented they will get chosen it will be as diverse as the talent that year.
In that case, I'm of mixed opinion. It would be great to see more minorities get recognized for their work, but generally, I think quotas are bad and a 'band-aid' solution.
This ^ . We don't want to fundamentally reform the casting system to have black actors as the main character because we think the majority white audience won't identify with them (even when George Romero and John Carpenter disproved that with "Night of the Living Dead" and "Assault on Precinct 13" back in the 1960s and 70s respectively) so we occasionally point to 'black movie' (looking at you "12 Years a Slave," the only movie for which black people have won an Oscar in almost 10 years) and pretend that that is equality.
In that case, I'm of mixed opinion. It would be great to see more minorities get recognized for their work, but generally, I think quotas are bad and a 'band-aid' solution.
To all the people saying 'they deserve an oscar if they deserve an oscar' Yes, because let's pretend that during casting black and while people have the same footing to be cast as the main character, that Hollywood marketers won't say "oh, if you put this black actor as lead, it will seem like a 'black film."
Then your gripe is with the film industry and their ways of choosing actors (which I don't necessarily agree with, disagree with, nor care about). Expecting more Oscars to be handed to black people, while admitting that less black people are in a position to receive an Oscar, is a bit ridiculous.
To all the people saying 'they deserve an oscar if they deserve an oscar' Yes, because let's pretend that during casting black and while peo… moreple have the same footing to be cast as the main character, that Hollywood marketers won't say "oh, if you put this black actor as lead, it will seem like a 'black film."
How are the Oscars not diverse? We have tons of black actors and actresses. If their roles are good enough to earn an Oscar...then they earn an Oscar. Can you show me some proof that there is discrimination in the awards?
Or if you are just saying that we should give black people Oscars just for the sake of them being black, sorry but I disagree entirely. That is racist in itself. If no black person wins an Oscar this year, it has nothing to do with anything, it just means black actors/actresses did not have any outstanding performances.
Guys, when I mean "people of color", I just don't mean blacks. Anyway, I am not saying that a person should get a nomination or an award just because he/she is black or another person of color. I do agree that they should do an awesome to get at least nominated. I do not know about your guys opinion, but Will Smith's role in Concussion was phenomenal. The film was phenomenal itself. I just believe that at least him should have gotten a nomination for that role. If he was nominated, would I expect him to win? Not at all. So I do not think that blacks or other people of color should get an award or nomination because of their race. That would not be fair.
That a person of color, who has done an excellent job on his/her role, gets at least a nomination.
Uh huh.
So I do not think that blacks or other people of color should get an award or nomination because of their race
Uh huh.
Alright, so I get what you're saying. You want people of color to be more recognized during award shows by getting at least nominations for their great work. I agree, people who did great jobs acting should get recognition for their work. Well, first off as a disclaimer, I don't watch award shows, I don't care about them and I find them pointless. I don't know if you think there is some kind of thing with awards to where black people are actively not picked because they are black, I heavily doubt that and disagree.
Guys, when I mean "people of color", I just don't mean blacks. Anyway, I am not saying that a person should get a nomination or an award jus… moret because he/she is black or another person of color. I do agree that they should do an awesome to get at least nominated. I do not know about your guys opinion, but Will Smith's role in Concussion was phenomenal. The film was phenomenal itself. I just believe that at least him should have gotten a nomination for that role. If he was nominated, would I expect him to win? Not at all. So I do not think that blacks or other people of color should get an award or nomination because of their race. That would not be fair.
You're exactly right, my gripe is on an industrial level. Although I don't know see where I said we need to hand out more Oscars to black people artificially. I'm not going to twist any indivdual writer's arm and say "MAKE HIM BLACK!" but I think there should be more opportunity for leading black/non-descript roles, especially in cases where race is irrelevant to that role (citing again Assault of Prencinct 13).
Then your gripe is with the film industry and their ways of choosing actors (which I don't necessarily agree with, disagree with, nor care a… morebout). Expecting more Oscars to be handed to black people, while admitting that less black people are in a position to receive an Oscar, is a bit ridiculous.
I think the problem is that the Oscars don't really represent the best movies in a year anyways. They are completely divorced from reality, and if they weren't, they'd probably be more naturally diverse. It's all just so stupid by now.
Exactly. I just want more recognition for people of color. I don't believe that the Oscars are racist or anything, I just want people like me to be recognized more. I hope people don't believe that I'm racist or anything.
That a person of color, who has done an excellent job on his/her role, gets at least a nomination.
Uh huh.
So I do not think t… morehat blacks or other people of color should get an award or nomination because of their race
Uh huh.
Alright, so I get what you're saying. You want people of color to be more recognized during award shows by getting at least nominations for their great work. I agree, people who did great jobs acting should get recognition for their work. Well, first off as a disclaimer, I don't watch award shows, I don't care about them and I find them pointless. I don't know if you think there is some kind of thing with awards to where black people are actively not picked because they are black, I heavily doubt that and disagree.
Oh no, not like that. And like I said before, when I mean "colored people" I don't specifically mean blacks. And it would be crazy if the Oscars just gave awards to people who are just black. That wouldn't be cool.
How are the Oscars not diverse? We have tons of black actors and actresses. If their roles are good enough to earn an Oscar...then they earn… more an Oscar. Can you show me some proof that there is discrimination in the awards?
Or if you are just saying that we should give black people Oscars just for the sake of them being black, sorry but I disagree entirely. That is racist in itself. If no black person wins an Oscar this year, it has nothing to do with anything, it just means black actors/actresses did not have any outstanding performances.
That was a joke, I felt like leaving at that but I feel like I should give you more than that. Have people of color been unrecognized in awards lately? I can't tell you to be honest, don't watch them. I don't think so though, I feel like you want more people of color to be shown and announced even if they don't win...I don't get the point of that though, the awards don't matter, your recognition is what matters to them.
Exactly. I just want more recognition for people of color. I don't believe that the Oscars are racist or anything, I just want people like me to be recognized more. I hope people don't believe that I'm racist or anything.
Oh yes, for the Golden Globes some people of color were nominated like Rami Malek and Idris Elba. I think Taraji P. Henson was the only one won for her role in Empire. But I don't really care for the GG like the Oscars because it isn't as big as the Oscars. I believe that the Oscars is the most watched award show.
I just want people like me to be recognized more.
Oh you're an actor?
That was a joke, I felt like leaving at that but I feel lik… moree I should give you more than that. Have people of color been unrecognized in awards lately? I can't tell you to be honest, don't watch them. I don't think so though, I feel like you want more people of color to be shown and announced even if they don't win...I don't get the point of that though, the awards don't matter, your recognition is what matters to them.
Oh yes, for the Golden Globes some people of color were nominated like Rami Malek and Idris Elba. I think Taraji P. Henson was the only one … morewon for her role in Empire. But I don't really care for the GG like the Oscars because it isn't as big as the Oscars. I believe that the Oscars is the most watched award show.
Yes but people shouldn't get recognised if they don't deserve to be recognised. The Oscars are a prestigious award. You may 'like' to see more people get nominated, but they definitely shouldn't unless their role in a certain film is DESERVING of a nomination. If the Oscars started handing out awards to people of colour just because people think they should be more recognised, the Oscars will become irrelevant.
I don't think you're racist and I get your point...I just don't think it should work that way.
Exactly. I just want more recognition for people of color. I don't believe that the Oscars are racist or anything, I just want people like me to be recognized more. I hope people don't believe that I'm racist or anything.
Honestly, I think there's a problem with casting calls in general. In some cases, race matters, of course, but in most cases, it shouldn't even be there in the casting call at all.
Yet every casting call that you'll ever see always reads like: Marsha, wife of Bob (mid 40's, thin, Caucasian female). The gender matters of course, but why should it matter whether Marsha's Caucasian (or thin for that matter, but that's a topic for another thread)?
Sometimes people do buck the trend and go to an audition for a role that they don't meet the criteria (I remember watching a story about a black woman who stated that the casting call called for a white woman, and she went anyway and won the part), but just listing race at all is seriously limiting your options.
You're exactly right, my gripe is on an industrial level. Although I don't know see where I said we need to hand out more Oscars to black pe… moreople artificially. I'm not going to twist any indivdual writer's arm and say "MAKE HIM BLACK!" but I think there should be more opportunity for leading black/non-descript roles, especially in cases where race is irrelevant to that role (citing again Assault of Prencinct 13).
I don't know if you think there is some kind of thing with awards to where black people are actively not picked because they are black, I heavily doubt that and disagree.
Everyone nominated in the acting categories this year and last year were white. Despite there being plenty of great non-white performances. Maybe it was innocent, but in general, there's a ton of evidence showing that white people are at an advantage when it comes to being hired and what-not. There was a study where they sent out a bunch of identical resumes, with a variety of names. Surprise, surprise the white-sounding names were much more likely to get call-backs. I don't even think its conscious discrimination in most cases. There's something in Western culture that predisposes us to looking favorably on white people. The Academy is largely made up of old, white men, so I'm really not inclined to give them the benefit of a doubt. Again, its probably not even conscious racism.
Which is why I'm starting to come around to the idea of setting quotas when possible. In a perfect world, we wouldn't do it, but we don't live in a perfect world. The ideal solution would be to get rid of that impulse, but I have yet to see a solution proposed that won't take decades, if not generations. So, in the meantime, I think that anything to level the playing field is a good idea, as long as it doesn't go too far in the opposite direction.
In the case of the Oscar's, I would impose some sort of soft quota. Say, for the best actor categories, if the nominees are all white, replace the lowest voted white nominee with the highest voted non-white nominee. That probably still would put the non-white actors at a disadvantage, but it might counterbalance the scales a bit.
That a person of color, who has done an excellent job on his/her role, gets at least a nomination.
Uh huh.
So I do not think t… morehat blacks or other people of color should get an award or nomination because of their race
Uh huh.
Alright, so I get what you're saying. You want people of color to be more recognized during award shows by getting at least nominations for their great work. I agree, people who did great jobs acting should get recognition for their work. Well, first off as a disclaimer, I don't watch award shows, I don't care about them and I find them pointless. I don't know if you think there is some kind of thing with awards to where black people are actively not picked because they are black, I heavily doubt that and disagree.
There seems to be a notion that Hollywood and more specifically, the Academy is completely impartial and that 'if minorities deserve an Oscar, they'll get an Oscar.' Give me a break! Given what we know about the Academy (thanks @Mosfet) and Hollywood's casting practices, the notion that the Oscars are a colorblind meritocracy Is naive at best. Of course, this brings me to my second point.
I don't really care that much. Do I feel Will Smith should've gotten a nomination for Concussion? Absolutely. Do I think this is a gross injustice? Not really. Will Smith IS being recognized for his work, whether or not he recieves a lump of metal from the Academy. His work is being appreciated to the tune of millions upon millions of dollars in his bank account. The fact that a ultra-successful, black man with a net worth of 250m is being denied an award nomination barely makes a blip on my injustice radar. If 1% "activists" like Spike Lee and Jada Plinkett Smith gave half a damn about the injustice facing blacks, they would be using their clout to help people and organize in, say...Flint Michigan, instead of bitching about the Oscars on Twitter.
EDIT : I realize that my tone is a little harsh here. I'm not trying to be dismissive toward this thread, just trying to put things in perspective.
Diversity is the most racist concept ever. There have been plenty of black, asian or other minorities getting Oscars but if you say that we definitely have to give the black man an Oscar then thats racism and leads to segregation. Let everyone compete on an even field and ignore race.
Diversity is the most racist concept ever. There have been plenty of black, asian or other minorities getting Oscars but if you say that we … moredefinitely have to give the black man an Oscar then thats racism and leads to segregation. Let everyone compete on an even field and ignore race.
As I said, if you want a world free of racism you stop invoking race and judge everyone equally. If you say that Oscars need more diversity you mean that we should judge people based on ace and give preferance to minorities purely on racial grounds not due to their talent. Thats damn racist in my book.
As I said, if you want a world free of racism you stop invoking race and judge everyone equally. If you say that Oscars need more diversity … moreyou mean that we should judge people based on ace and give preferance to minorities purely on racial grounds not due to their talent. Thats damn racist in my book.
No they are not, its just some dumb people on twitter with too much time on their hands. There where not many good films with minority actors this year. The same people gave Oscars to plenty of minorities in past when it was deserved.
But the argument here is that people are allegedly not judged the same...
Also, I think you're confusing 'diversity' with 'affirmative action', which to be fair, OP did too.
Everyone nominated in the acting categories this year and last year were white. Despite there being plenty of great non-white performances. Maybe it was innocent, but in general, there's a ton of evidence showing that white people are at an advantage when it comes to being hired and what-not.
Ah, oh well, like I said, I don't watch them. At least I do know now the statistics of the awards.
Which is why I'm starting to come around to the idea of setting quotas when possible.
Setting quotas on race? Hey, I'm all for getting more diversity recognized in the awards but I don't think we should actively force people to give people of color a nomination or award just because they're a POC or deny one to a white actor because they're white. Should we promote diversity? Sure and we definitely should try and getting new reforms in the program...I just don't agree with quotas.
I don't know if you think there is some kind of thing with awards to where black people are actively not picked because they are black, I he… moreavily doubt that and disagree.
Everyone nominated in the acting categories this year and last year were white. Despite there being plenty of great non-white performances. Maybe it was innocent, but in general, there's a ton of evidence showing that white people are at an advantage when it comes to being hired and what-not. There was a study where they sent out a bunch of identical resumes, with a variety of names. Surprise, surprise the white-sounding names were much more likely to get call-backs. I don't even think its conscious discrimination in most cases. There's something in Western culture that predisposes us to looking favorably on white people. The Academy is largely made up of old, white men, so I'm really not inclined to give them the benefit of a doubt. Again, its probably not even cons… [view original content]
Just saw a bit on the news about people boycotting the awards. Apparently only two percent of the voters are black, which explains a lot. I was also reminded that Idris Elba was fucking amazing in Beasts of no Nation.
Just saw a bit on the news about people boycotting the awards. Apparently only two percent of the voters are black, which explains a lot. I was also reminded that Idris Elba was fucking amazing in Beasts of no Nation.
Comments
In what way?
Should be about quality of acting for awards not your race to decide if you picking people for race over talent when the awards are talent based that is racism. If actors or actresses are talented they will get chosen it will be as diverse as the talent that year.
I agree that it should be the quality of acting, and last year there has been some great acting of some people of color. For example, Will Smith in Concussion. He was excellent in that movie. I was quite disappointed that even the movie didn't get a nomination. I guess it is just some people's opinions.
That a person of color, who has done an excellent job on his/her role, gets at least a nomination.
In that case, I'm of mixed opinion. It would be great to see more minorities get recognized for their work, but generally, I think quotas are bad and a 'band-aid' solution.
Nope. Diversity is a distraction. If they deserve an Oscar give them an Oscar. If they don't then don't give them an Oscar.
This ^ . We don't want to fundamentally reform the casting system to have black actors as the main character because we think the majority white audience won't identify with them (even when George Romero and John Carpenter disproved that with "Night of the Living Dead" and "Assault on Precinct 13" back in the 1960s and 70s respectively) so we occasionally point to 'black movie' (looking at you "12 Years a Slave," the only movie for which black people have won an Oscar in almost 10 years) and pretend that that is equality.
To all the people saying 'they deserve an oscar if they deserve an oscar' Yes, because let's pretend that during casting black and while people have the same footing to be cast as the main character, that Hollywood marketers won't say "oh, if you put this black actor as lead, it will seem like a 'black film."
Then your gripe is with the film industry and their ways of choosing actors (which I don't necessarily agree with, disagree with, nor care about). Expecting more Oscars to be handed to black people, while admitting that less black people are in a position to receive an Oscar, is a bit ridiculous.
The Oscars are a joke.
How are the Oscars not diverse? We have tons of black actors and actresses. If their roles are good enough to earn an Oscar...then they earn an Oscar. Can you show me some proof that there is discrimination in the awards?
Or if you are just saying that we should give black people Oscars just for the sake of them being black, sorry but I disagree entirely. That is racist in itself. If no black person wins an Oscar this year, it has nothing to do with anything, it just means black actors/actresses did not have any outstanding performances.
It shouldn't matter what colour their skin is. If they are deserving of an Oscar that should be why they are nominated.
Guys, when I mean "people of color", I just don't mean blacks. Anyway, I am not saying that a person should get a nomination or an award just because he/she is black or another person of color. I do agree that they should do an awesome to get at least nominated. I do not know about your guys opinion, but Will Smith's role in Concussion was phenomenal. The film was phenomenal itself. I just believe that at least him should have gotten a nomination for that role. If he was nominated, would I expect him to win? Not at all. So I do not think that blacks or other people of color should get an award or nomination because of their race. That would not be fair.
Of course it doesn't matter. I just would like to see more people of color get recognized for their work.
Uh huh.
Uh huh.
Alright, so I get what you're saying. You want people of color to be more recognized during award shows by getting at least nominations for their great work. I agree, people who did great jobs acting should get recognition for their work. Well, first off as a disclaimer, I don't watch award shows, I don't care about them and I find them pointless. I don't know if you think there is some kind of thing with awards to where black people are actively not picked because they are black, I heavily doubt that and disagree.
You're exactly right, my gripe is on an industrial level. Although I don't know see where I said we need to hand out more Oscars to black people artificially. I'm not going to twist any indivdual writer's arm and say "MAKE HIM BLACK!" but I think there should be more opportunity for leading black/non-descript roles, especially in cases where race is irrelevant to that role (citing again Assault of Prencinct 13).
I think the problem is that the Oscars don't really represent the best movies in a year anyways. They are completely divorced from reality, and if they weren't, they'd probably be more naturally diverse. It's all just so stupid by now.
Exactly. I just want more recognition for people of color. I don't believe that the Oscars are racist or anything, I just want people like me to be recognized more. I hope people don't believe that I'm racist or anything.
Oh no, not like that. And like I said before, when I mean "colored people" I don't specifically mean blacks. And it would be crazy if the Oscars just gave awards to people who are just black. That wouldn't be cool.
Oh you're an actor?
That was a joke, I felt like leaving at that but I feel like I should give you more than that. Have people of color been unrecognized in awards lately? I can't tell you to be honest, don't watch them. I don't think so though, I feel like you want more people of color to be shown and announced even if they don't win...I don't get the point of that though, the awards don't matter, your recognition is what matters to them.
Oh yes, for the Golden Globes some people of color were nominated like Rami Malek and Idris Elba. I think Taraji P. Henson was the only one won for her role in Empire. But I don't really care for the GG like the Oscars because it isn't as big as the Oscars. I believe that the Oscars is the most watched award show.
So a few, you want more though? I understand, though what can you do?
Yeah, just a little more. And I can't do anything about it. Just sit, wait, and hope it changes a little bit in the future.
Well, I hope everyone gets credit and recognition where it's due.
No, who cares its all celebrity trash anyway
People, of any race, deserve what they work for.
Yes but people shouldn't get recognised if they don't deserve to be recognised. The Oscars are a prestigious award. You may 'like' to see more people get nominated, but they definitely shouldn't unless their role in a certain film is DESERVING of a nomination. If the Oscars started handing out awards to people of colour just because people think they should be more recognised, the Oscars will become irrelevant.
I don't think you're racist and I get your point...I just don't think it should work that way.
Honestly, I think there's a problem with casting calls in general. In some cases, race matters, of course, but in most cases, it shouldn't even be there in the casting call at all.
Yet every casting call that you'll ever see always reads like: Marsha, wife of Bob (mid 40's, thin, Caucasian female). The gender matters of course, but why should it matter whether Marsha's Caucasian (or thin for that matter, but that's a topic for another thread)?
Sometimes people do buck the trend and go to an audition for a role that they don't meet the criteria (I remember watching a story about a black woman who stated that the casting call called for a white woman, and she went anyway and won the part), but just listing race at all is seriously limiting your options.
Everyone nominated in the acting categories this year and last year were white. Despite there being plenty of great non-white performances. Maybe it was innocent, but in general, there's a ton of evidence showing that white people are at an advantage when it comes to being hired and what-not. There was a study where they sent out a bunch of identical resumes, with a variety of names. Surprise, surprise the white-sounding names were much more likely to get call-backs. I don't even think its conscious discrimination in most cases. There's something in Western culture that predisposes us to looking favorably on white people. The Academy is largely made up of old, white men, so I'm really not inclined to give them the benefit of a doubt. Again, its probably not even conscious racism.
Which is why I'm starting to come around to the idea of setting quotas when possible. In a perfect world, we wouldn't do it, but we don't live in a perfect world. The ideal solution would be to get rid of that impulse, but I have yet to see a solution proposed that won't take decades, if not generations. So, in the meantime, I think that anything to level the playing field is a good idea, as long as it doesn't go too far in the opposite direction.
In the case of the Oscar's, I would impose some sort of soft quota. Say, for the best actor categories, if the nominees are all white, replace the lowest voted white nominee with the highest voted non-white nominee. That probably still would put the non-white actors at a disadvantage, but it might counterbalance the scales a bit.
A couple points I'd like to make.
There seems to be a notion that Hollywood and more specifically, the Academy is completely impartial and that 'if minorities deserve an Oscar, they'll get an Oscar.' Give me a break! Given what we know about the Academy (thanks @Mosfet) and Hollywood's casting practices, the notion that the Oscars are a colorblind meritocracy Is naive at best. Of course, this brings me to my second point.
I don't really care that much. Do I feel Will Smith should've gotten a nomination for Concussion? Absolutely. Do I think this is a gross injustice? Not really. Will Smith IS being recognized for his work, whether or not he recieves a lump of metal from the Academy. His work is being appreciated to the tune of millions upon millions of dollars in his bank account. The fact that a ultra-successful, black man with a net worth of 250m is being denied an award nomination barely makes a blip on my injustice radar. If 1% "activists" like Spike Lee and Jada Plinkett Smith gave half a damn about the injustice facing blacks, they would be using their clout to help people and organize in, say...Flint Michigan, instead of bitching about the Oscars on Twitter.
EDIT : I realize that my tone is a little harsh here. I'm not trying to be dismissive toward this thread, just trying to put things in perspective.
Diversity is the most racist concept ever. There have been plenty of black, asian or other minorities getting Oscars but if you say that we definitely have to give the black man an Oscar then thats racism and leads to segregation. Let everyone compete on an even field and ignore race.
Lolwut?
As I said, if you want a world free of racism you stop invoking race and judge everyone equally. If you say that Oscars need more diversity you mean that we should judge people based on ace and give preferance to minorities purely on racial grounds not due to their talent. Thats damn racist in my book.
I think I made a mistake making this thread.
But the argument here is that people are allegedly not judged the same...
Also, I think you're confusing 'diversity' with 'affirmative action', which to be fair, OP did too.
I don't. Just because people have conflicting opinions doesn't mean it isn't a debate worth having.
No they are not, its just some dumb people on twitter with too much time on their hands. There where not many good films with minority actors this year. The same people gave Oscars to plenty of minorities in past when it was deserved.
Ah, oh well, like I said, I don't watch them. At least I do know now the statistics of the awards.
Setting quotas on race? Hey, I'm all for getting more diversity recognized in the awards but I don't think we should actively force people to give people of color a nomination or award just because they're a POC or deny one to a white actor because they're white. Should we promote diversity? Sure and we definitely should try and getting new reforms in the program...I just don't agree with quotas.
Just saw a bit on the news about people boycotting the awards. Apparently only two percent of the voters are black, which explains a lot. I was also reminded that Idris Elba was fucking amazing in Beasts of no Nation.
I heard that that movie was great as well. :P Yeah, I heard that Jada Pinkett is the one who is starting the boycott.