Once again the internet is exploding over nothing.
Nah, I'm cool as a freezer.
It wasn't done because it was a "sexy" pose, it was done because it didn't fit the personality of the character. The creators themselves had an internal discussion about whether to remove the pose because they felt it didn't fit the character, prior to the post.
If that's true, then that's okay. They're the ones who gets to decide anyway. It's just knowing certain kinds of people on the internet, a group can try to force their hand on something that doesn't even effect them. It certainly doesn't effect me, but I needed an excuse to post since I hardy go on these days.
This is a complete non-issue. Once again the internet is exploding over nothing. It wasn't done because it was a "sexy" pose, it was done … morebecause it didn't fit the personality of the character. The creators themselves had an internal discussion about whether to remove the pose because they felt it didn't fit the character, prior to the post. When the post was made, it was basically confirmation that they weren't the only ones who thought that way, so they decided that they would remove it. They weren't pressured to do so, as they already were going to do so anyway (a single post wouldn't make a difference if they didn't already intend to change it).
Creators should be allowed to do whatever they want with their own work.
Not all damage control statements are untrue, and their statement certainly makes more sense than the alternative. There was one post that made the suggestion to not use the pose. Nowhere on Earth would one post make an entire team decide to remove something if it wasn't already planned to be removed already.
It didn't fit the personality of the character, so they decided to change it. The fact that the post was made was just an affirmation that the team weren't the only people who thought that way. It makes sense. However, the alternative, removing something they wanted to keep because one random person on the internet made a suggestion, does not make sense at all.
Therefore, it's obvious the team changed it because they wanted to change it. As I said, this is a complete non-issue. People are making a mountain out of a molehill here.
It wasn't done because it was a "sexy" pose, it was done because it didn't fit the personality of the character. The creators themselves had… more an internal discussion about whether to remove the pose because they felt it didn't fit the character, prior to the post. When the post was made, it was basically confirmation that they weren't the only ones who thought that way, so they decided that they would remove it. They weren't pressured to do so, as they already were going to do so anyway (a single post wouldn't make a difference if they didn't already intend to change it).
I read that response was when they seen the massive backlash so it was a damage control statement that was untrue
Companies have every right to censor their own intellectual property if they want to. Also, it's worth noting that the company changed it because it was out of character not because of the SJW's.
This was how Witcher franchise makers responded when targeted by SJW to change their characters I found it interesting
Czech d… moreeveloper makes a game based on 15th century Bohemia with historical accuracy ]
SJW scream "muh diversity" because the characters in the same are pretty much all white
Developer explains that the game is based on history and that there were almost no non-white people in that period in Bohemia
Developer basically saying that if they want more diversity so much that they should make their own games based on their culture
This was how Witcher franchise makers responded when targeted by SJW to change their characters I found it interesting
Czech d… moreeveloper makes a game based on 15th century Bohemia with historical accuracy ]
SJW scream "muh diversity" because the characters in the same are pretty much all white
Developer explains that the game is based on history and that there were almost no non-white people in that period in Bohemia
Developer basically saying that if they want more diversity so much that they should make their own games based on their culture
Then you can easily understand why the game sold so poorly in the west. It was marketed so poorly, combine that with bad design choices (coughs) above, and on top of that giving it a bad title. It was originally known was Battlefield Valkryia the Gallian Chronicles in Japan, western Release they named it Valkyria Chronicles. A more suitable name for the game would of been the "ingame" book that the story is meant to be based off of. On the Gallian Front which would of made a vastly superior and better title. As well as better cover art that showed it was a war game for the western release also would of been nice but they chose to show off the "BOOBs" character (ie character with giant cupcakes) glowing blue with red eyes, having nothing to do with the fact the game is about you commanding infantry and tanks. lol
Now, to be honest, they are great games still. They just took some bad choices in character design and marketing combined. The games took war more seriously than Call of Duty or Battlefield ever did. Personally though, proof that SEGA's Leadership have their heads in the sand, which is exactly why SEGA is such a "FAIL" company in the gaming world. Still, the best game they'v'e made in decades.
tbh this would piss me off to this was a bad decision the original idea looked amazing. If these were screenshots of different games I buy the first looks amazing and ignore the second as poorly made weeaboo game based on the shots here
I completely agree. So fucking pathetic that no one gives a shit that the gaming industry is absolute hell for workers who make the games, because they're too busy whining about so called feminazis on the internet.
Pure minutae.
So let me get this straight... Huge game companies underpay their employees and treat them like shit and nobody bats an eye… more. But if they remove a character pose, it's "the end of ethics in the video game industry". Makes sense to me!
Seriously, they removed a butt pose from a game...who fucking cares??? Oh yeah, clickbait magnates and Internet pundits who get ad revenue by manufacturing outrage about things that don't matter. Anita and that fat dude in the first video are both on the same team: team money.
Good lord.
Ok, people seem to have their fingers in their ears because they take a chance to rant about feminism whenever they can and have apparently either ignored or chosen not to believe my first post. So i'll repeat it.
The pose was not removed because Tracer is female. It wasn't a feminist complaint. The complaint was that it didn't suit Tracer's character, where it would have suited the female sniper's character, as she revels in her sexuality.
The hypocrisy in criticising feminists for complaining about everything when YOU'RE the ones who've made this about feminism is just ridiculous. You criticise feminists for 'making everything about gender', then proceed to turn a characterisation debate into...one about gender. You're acting no better than the people you hate.
Take your fingers out of your ears. This is about characterisation, not feminism.
Not everything is about gender. Most of you are acting no better on this thread than the worst of feminists.
It's very immature because you're just ranting rather than rationally considering the situation. You're springboarding into barely relevant rants.
People just like jumping on a hate-train even when it isn't relevant. I've mentioned that it was because of characterisation, not feminism, several times already on this thread, but they don't care.
They just want to rant and complain. Like children.
This is a complete non-issue. Once again the internet is exploding over nothing. It wasn't done because it was a "sexy" pose, it was done … morebecause it didn't fit the personality of the character. The creators themselves had an internal discussion about whether to remove the pose because they felt it didn't fit the character, prior to the post. When the post was made, it was basically confirmation that they weren't the only ones who thought that way, so they decided that they would remove it. They weren't pressured to do so, as they already were going to do so anyway (a single post wouldn't make a difference if they didn't already intend to change it).
Creators should be allowed to do whatever they want with their own work.
Once again the internet is exploding over nothing.
Nah, I'm cool as a freezer.
It wasn't done because it was a "sexy" pose, it… more was done because it didn't fit the personality of the character. The creators themselves had an internal discussion about whether to remove the pose because they felt it didn't fit the character, prior to the post.
If that's true, then that's okay. They're the ones who gets to decide anyway. It's just knowing certain kinds of people on the internet, a group can try to force their hand on something that doesn't even effect them. It certainly doesn't effect me, but I needed an excuse to post since I hardy go on these days.
But i don't get the shitstorm. Many characters have the "over the shoulder" Pose. I don't Know the Lore of Tracer And i actually don't give a shit. The only Problem that "I" see, is that blizzard uses the same poses for several characters. Thats Lazy.
Firstly, responding to fan criticism isn't censorship.
Secondly, they changed it because it conflicted with Tracer;s characterisation. Not because of gender.
Not everything is about gender Gary. Maybe you should stop getting triggered into anti-feminist rants just because a sentence contained the word 'female' and 'butt'.
Great, more pointless censorship. Looks like I'm not buying overwatch now. I won't support a developer that is willing to change their game just because someone gets "triggered" over a butt.
Am I the only one who doesn't even understand it? How do you go from "Are people on other continents and cultures so incompetent that they need me to produce their culture," to "colored people are incompetent." He's obviously stating that everyone the world over is incompetent - it's equal opportunity discrimination.
This was how Witcher franchise makers responded when targeted by SJW to change their characters I found it interesting
Czech d… moreeveloper makes a game based on 15th century Bohemia with historical accuracy ]
SJW scream "muh diversity" because the characters in the same are pretty much all white
Developer explains that the game is based on history and that there were almost no non-white people in that period in Bohemia
Developer basically saying that if they want more diversity so much that they should make their own games based on their culture
So, if telltale started to make longer episodes because people were complaining about the short ones, is that censoring their art?
I fail to see how responding to characterisation concerns is censorship.
As another example, if you're writing a book, and you hold a focus group, and many members of that focus group think one chapter is particularly week, and your editor says maybe you should revise it, is that censor ship?
You seem to forget that we're talking about businesses here.
Ok, people seem to have their fingers in their ears because they take a chance to rant about feminism whenever they can and have apparently … moreeither ignored or chosen not to believe my first post. So i'll repeat it.
The pose was not removed because Tracer is female. It wasn't a feminist complaint. The complaint was that it didn't suit Tracer's character, where it would have suited the female sniper's character, as she revels in her sexuality.
The hypocrisy in criticising feminists for complaining about everything when YOU'RE the ones who've made this about feminism is just ridiculous. You criticise feminists for 'making everything about gender', then proceed to turn a characterisation debate into...one about gender. You're acting no better than the people you hate.
Take your fingers out of your ears. This is about characterisation, not feminism.
Not everything is about gender. Most of you are acting no better on this thread than the… [view original content]
Good points. If it fits the content, then it doesn't need be changed just to make the character(s) sexually appealing. Doing that for the sake of it can be stupid.
You bring up a good point about men not giving a shit that most game's protaganists are in peak physical condition. I'm not going to claim to understand where these complainers are coming from, it just seems like some petty crap to me.
We don't really know the whole story, either Blizzard changed it because they felt like they had to, or they really did have another pose planned.
They felt they had to because there was such a split between her character and her pose. If the sniper had that pose there'd be no issue. It was simply bad characterisation.
Also, if it all was truly about Tracer's character not matching the pose, would this complaint still be valid if Tracer was a guy instead of a woman.
Absoltuely 100% yes.
Imagine if, after scoring a headshot, solid snake pulled down his trousers, revealed a thong, slapped his bum and winked at the camera. It'd be completely and utterly random and not fit remotely with his character.
However, a male character who's obsessed with sex and sexuality doing that wouldn't seem THAT out of place.
Similarly, Tracer, whose characterisation has absolutely nothing to do with sexuality, seems really random when doing that. However the female sniper character would fit right in with it.
People need to stop making everything about gender. It's very tiresome.
We don't really know the whole story, either Blizzard changed it because they felt like they had to, or they really did have another pose pl… moreanned.
Also, if it all was truly about Tracer's character not matching the pose, would this complaint still be valid if Tracer was a guy instead of a woman.
On a side note, I actually thought there were a lot of egalitarian elements of that game, specifically in how little gender really came into it. A line I really love is Selvaria saying "This time, I am going to face you as a woman," in the exact same way people would be 'man up,' or things like that. Basically, she was using her womanhood to connote strength and honor, and I liked it.
That said, yes, her 'giant cupcakes' were a bit much.
Then you can easily understand why the game sold so poorly in the west. It was marketed so poorly, combine that with bad design choices (co… moreughs) above, and on top of that giving it a bad title. It was originally known was Battlefield Valkryia the Gallian Chronicles in Japan, western Release they named it Valkyria Chronicles. A more suitable name for the game would of been the "ingame" book that the story is meant to be based off of. On the Gallian Front which would of made a vastly superior and better title. As well as better cover art that showed it was a war game for the western release also would of been nice but they chose to show off the "BOOBs" character (ie character with giant cupcakes) glowing blue with red eyes, having nothing to do with the fact the game is about you commanding infantry and tanks. lol
Now, to be honest, they are great games still. They just took some bad choices in character design and marketing combined… [view original content]
if they want more diversity so much that they should make their own games based on their culture
Hm..
But as Gone Home shows us, if 'SJWs' do make games about the things they like and find interesting, Social Conservatism Warriors will still get up in arms about that. So not sure it's accurate?
People need to make up their minds over whether SJWs if they have an issue should make their own games rather than 'censor' other studios, or instead give feedback to studios with their opinions.
Opposing both, saying no you should making art you find interesting, and no you shouldn't give that particular feedback even if it's your opinion, basically results in you telling people not to express their opinions.
And surely that's much closer to censorship than expressing an opinion about a video game's characteriation?
This was how Witcher franchise makers responded when targeted by SJW to change their characters I found it interesting
Czech d… moreeveloper makes a game based on 15th century Bohemia with historical accuracy ]
SJW scream "muh diversity" because the characters in the same are pretty much all white
Developer explains that the game is based on history and that there were almost no non-white people in that period in Bohemia
Developer basically saying that if they want more diversity so much that they should make their own games based on their culture
We don't really know the whole story, either Blizzard changed it because they felt like they had to, or they really did have another pose pl… moreanned.
They felt they had to because there was such a split between her character and her pose. If the sniper had that pose there'd be no issue. It was simply bad characterisation.
Also, if it all was truly about Tracer's character not matching the pose, would this complaint still be valid if Tracer was a guy instead of a woman.
Absoltuely 100% yes.
Imagine if, after scoring a headshot, solid snake pulled down his trousers, revealed a thong, slapped his bum and winked at the camera. It'd be completely and utterly random and not fit remotely with his character.
However, a male character who's obsessed with sex and sexuality doing that wouldn't seem THAT out of place.
Similarly, Tracer, whose characterisation has absolutely nothing to do with sexuality, seems really random whe… [view original content]
Well taking off youre clothes isnt necessary if youre wearing somethink skin tight.
What I was saying was, if Tracer was a male, and was in the exact same pose, 100% the same, no one would care.
If that male character was wearing a skin tight body suit which showed off curves and did that pose? I think many would. I certainly would.
But that happens rarer for male characters. Which is logical and understandable because most developers are straight guys who prefer making Tracer wear those clothes and make that pose than characters like Solid Snake.
Regardless the vast majority of peopel on this thread seem to think that askign for a pose that is bad characterisation to be removed is censorship and SJWs gone mad or whatever, so when you say 'no-one would care' that doesnt seem to be true here.
I don't think you can really compare someone looking over their shoulder to someone taking off their clothes.
What I was saying was, if Tracer was a male, and was in the exact same pose, 100% the same, no one would care.
They changed it because of characterisation. It didn't fit Tracer's character. It would have fit the female sniper's character.
Nothing to do with the SJW boogieman.
They actually released a statement that stated that they had an internal discussion to change it because it didn't fit the personality of the character, and they actually already had an alternate pose made, prior to the controversy. So, yes. We do know the whole story. They removed it themselves, because it didn't fit the personality of the character, not because of pressure from anyone. As I said above, there was one post that made a suggestion to remove the pose. There's no way that a team would remove something, if they had intended to keep it, just because one random person on the internet made a suggestion to remove it.
This is what the game's director, Jeffrey Kaplan, said about the situation:
Well, that escalated quickly...
While I stand by my previous comment, I realize I should have been more clear. As the game director, I have final creative say over what does or does not go into the game. With this particular decision, it was an easy one to make—not just for me, but for the art team as well. We actually already have an alternate pose that we love and we feel speaks more to the character of Tracer. We weren't entirely happy with the original pose, it was always one that we wrestled with creatively. That the pose had been called into question from an appropriateness standpoint by players in our community did help influence our decision—getting that kind of feedback is part of the reason we're holding a closed beta test—but it wasn't the only factor. We made the decision to go with a different pose in part because we shared some of the same concerns, but also because we wanted to create something better.
We wouldn't do anything to sacrifice our creative vision for Overwatch, and we're not going to remove something solely because someone may take issue with it. Our goal isn't to water down or homogenize the world, or the diverse cast of heroes we've built within it. We have poured so much of our heart and souls into this game that it would be a travesty for us to do so.
We understand that not everyone will agree with our decision, and that's okay. That's what these kinds of public tests are for. This wasn't pandering or caving, though. This was the right call from our perspective, and we think the game will be just as fun the next time you play it.
If it isn't, feel free to continue sharing your concerns, thoughts, and feedback about this and other issues you may have with the game, please just keep the discussion respectful.
Thanks,
jeffrey
If Tracer was a male and they had made that pose for him, of course they would have changed the pose, since this was done as part an internal discussion over two alternate takes of a pose that had both already been created. If he had been a male, the first pose still wouldn't have fit the personality of the character.
We don't really know the whole story, either Blizzard changed it because they felt like they had to, or they really did have another pose pl… moreanned.
Also, if it all was truly about Tracer's character not matching the pose, would this complaint still be valid if Tracer was a guy instead of a woman.
Well taking off youre clothes isnt necessary if youre wearing somethink skin tight.
What I was saying was, if Tracer was a male, and w… moreas in the exact same pose, 100% the same, no one would care.
If that male character was wearing a skin tight body suit which showed off curves and did that pose? I think many would. I certainly would.
But that happens rarer for male characters. Which is logical and understandable because most developers are straight guys who prefer making Tracer wear those clothes and make that pose than characters like Solid Snake.
Regardless the vast majority of peopel on this thread seem to think that askign for a pose that is bad characterisation to be removed is censorship and SJWs gone mad or whatever, so when you say 'no-one would care' that doesnt seem to be true here.
As I said, outside of character/costume design the game was amazing. That is why it's sad seeing the original concept art when compared to the original content. The Devs really had a good idea going but SEGA's top brass wanted to sell figurines, so the women had to be sexed up more. According to the commentator notes in my concept art book I bought for the game. I remember reading that one of the devs stated they fought so hard to stop it from happening but they were only able to get the "grunts" in the game ie none major female characters in baggy shorts, but the main 3 still ended up in mini skirts.
On a side note, I actually thought there were a lot of egalitarian elements of that game, specifically in how little gender really came into… more it. A line I really love is Selvaria saying "This time, I am going to face you as a woman," in the exact same way people would be 'man up,' or things like that. Basically, she was using her womanhood to connote strength and honor, and I liked it.
That said, yes, her 'giant cupcakes' were a bit much.
Nah, I'm cool as a freezer.
You represent the entire internet? Interesting.I'd love to do an in-depth interview about bearing that b… moreurden!
a group can try to force their hand on something that doesn't even effect them.
This is literally what anti-feminists are doing here. The issue is about characterisation and they're making it about gender.
There was no outrage over the sexuality of Tracer's pose though. The only outrage was from people who were furious because the team decided to remove the pose.
There was one post where someone suggested that they change the pose as it didn't fit the personality of the character (it was never about sexualization, but rather about characterization). The director agreed, and stated that the team had already been planning to change it as they had already made a second pose that fit the personality of the character better.
If this was a situation that had to do with sexualization of women instead of a matter of conflict with a character's personality, other women characters would also have their poses changed.
However, this pose remains in the game. The difference is that this pose fits the personality of Widowmaker, but it didn't fit Tracer's personality.
This. Isn't. A feminist. Issue.
They changed it because it didn't fit Tracer's character. It would have worked on the (female) sniper character.
You're the one making this about feminism and you're the one making a big deal out of this.
That is something I've always hated, and as I guy it just shows i have more respect for women than a lot of gamers seem to do. Lineage II comes to mind when I say that. Early on in the games development women wore armor, save for the dark elves, but dark elves both women/men had skimpy clothing so it made sense. So say level No Grade and D Grade (lvl1-20 required to use) looked fine. Most of C grade looked fine, B Grade it started becoming skimpy, A and S.... ya omg. Even the Female Dwarf wasn't immune to it by A grade panties and skin visible everywhere.
Good points. If it fits the content, then it doesn't need be changed just to make the character(s) sexually appealing. Doing that for the sake of it can be stupid.
The people that complain about this stuff do not play the games. Anita, doesn't play videogames, theres videos online where she says games are stupid. Taking complaints of those people would be like TTG making an action game without any story because some random COD fanboy would say that TTG sucks and COD is more awesome.
So, if telltale started to make longer episodes because people were complaining about the short ones, is that censoring their art?
I fail… more to see how responding to characterisation concerns is censorship.
As another example, if you're writing a book, and you hold a focus group, and many members of that focus group think one chapter is particularly week, and your editor says maybe you should revise it, is that censor ship?
You seem to forget that we're talking about businesses here.
So whos stopping those people to make games, all I know from Gone Home is that its boring compared to The Stanley Parable which also came earlier if I recall.
if they want more diversity so much that they should make their own games based on their culture
Hm..
But as Gone Home shows us, … moreif 'SJWs' do make games about the things they like and find interesting, Social Conservatism Warriors will still get up in arms about that. So not sure it's accurate?
People need to make up their minds over whether SJWs if they have an issue should make their own games rather than 'censor' other studios, or instead give feedback to studios with their opinions.
Opposing both, saying no you should making art you find interesting, and no you shouldn't give that particular feedback even if it's your opinion, basically results in you telling people not to express their opinions.
And surely that's much closer to censorship than expressing an opinion about a video game's characteriation?
Eastern Europe will not bend to EU in regards to immigration and I see they also not gonna bend the knee to the diversity and feminism fanatics in gaming, seeing how good Witcher 3 did I see good future for Eastern Europe developers. Its really starting to look like a new bastion of freedom compared to the west.
This was how Witcher franchise makers responded when targeted by SJW to change their characters I found it interesting
Czech d… moreeveloper makes a game based on 15th century Bohemia with historical accuracy ]
SJW scream "muh diversity" because the characters in the same are pretty much all white
Developer explains that the game is based on history and that there were almost no non-white people in that period in Bohemia
Developer basically saying that if they want more diversity so much that they should make their own games based on their culture
I wasn't even planning on playing the game, but this actually annoyed me more than I expected. They removed it on the grounds that the pose didn't fit in with her energetic and playful character, but since when does flirtatiousness interfere with these attributes, especially the latter. Seems a bit ridiculous for an optional pose.
Eastern Europe will not bend to EU in regards to immigration and I see they also not gonna bend the knee to the diversity and feminism fanat… moreics in gaming, seeing how good Witcher 3 did I see good future for Eastern Europe developers. Its really starting to look like a new bastion of freedom compared to the west.
Comments
Nah, I'm cool as a freezer.
If that's true, then that's okay. They're the ones who gets to decide anyway. It's just knowing certain kinds of people on the internet, a group can try to force their hand on something that doesn't even effect them. It certainly doesn't effect me, but I needed an excuse to post since I hardy go on these days.
Not all damage control statements are untrue, and their statement certainly makes more sense than the alternative. There was one post that made the suggestion to not use the pose. Nowhere on Earth would one post make an entire team decide to remove something if it wasn't already planned to be removed already.
It didn't fit the personality of the character, so they decided to change it. The fact that the post was made was just an affirmation that the team weren't the only people who thought that way. It makes sense. However, the alternative, removing something they wanted to keep because one random person on the internet made a suggestion, does not make sense at all.
Therefore, it's obvious the team changed it because they wanted to change it. As I said, this is a complete non-issue. People are making a mountain out of a molehill here.
This was how Witcher franchise makers responded when targeted by SJW to change their characters I found it interesting
Companies have every right to censor their own intellectual property if they want to. Also, it's worth noting that the company changed it because it was out of character not because of the SJW's.
They weren't being coerced.
That's how the SJW should always be responded to.Bravo
Welcome to Poland.
Edit : Errr...Czech Republic. My bad.
Then you can easily understand why the game sold so poorly in the west. It was marketed so poorly, combine that with bad design choices (coughs) above, and on top of that giving it a bad title. It was originally known was Battlefield Valkryia the Gallian Chronicles in Japan, western Release they named it Valkyria Chronicles. A more suitable name for the game would of been the "ingame" book that the story is meant to be based off of. On the Gallian Front which would of made a vastly superior and better title. As well as better cover art that showed it was a war game for the western release also would of been nice but they chose to show off the "BOOBs" character (ie character with giant cupcakes) glowing blue with red eyes, having nothing to do with the fact the game is about you commanding infantry and tanks. lol
Now, to be honest, they are great games still. They just took some bad choices in character design and marketing combined. The games took war more seriously than Call of Duty or Battlefield ever did. Personally though, proof that SEGA's Leadership have their heads in the sand, which is exactly why SEGA is such a "FAIL" company in the gaming world. Still, the best game they'v'e made in decades.
I completely agree. So fucking pathetic that no one gives a shit that the gaming industry is absolute hell for workers who make the games, because they're too busy whining about so called feminazis on the internet.
This. Isn't. A feminist. Issue.
They changed it because it didn't fit Tracer's character. It would have worked on the (female) sniper character.
You're the one making this about feminism and you're the one making a big deal out of this.
Ok, people seem to have their fingers in their ears because they take a chance to rant about feminism whenever they can and have apparently either ignored or chosen not to believe my first post. So i'll repeat it.
The pose was not removed because Tracer is female. It wasn't a feminist complaint. The complaint was that it didn't suit Tracer's character, where it would have suited the female sniper's character, as she revels in her sexuality.
The hypocrisy in criticising feminists for complaining about everything when YOU'RE the ones who've made this about feminism is just ridiculous. You criticise feminists for 'making everything about gender', then proceed to turn a characterisation debate into...one about gender. You're acting no better than the people you hate.
Take your fingers out of your ears. This is about characterisation, not feminism.
Not everything is about gender. Most of you are acting no better on this thread than the worst of feminists.
It's very immature because you're just ranting rather than rationally considering the situation. You're springboarding into barely relevant rants.
People just like jumping on a hate-train even when it isn't relevant. I've mentioned that it was because of characterisation, not feminism, several times already on this thread, but they don't care.
They just want to rant and complain. Like children.
You represent the entire internet? Interesting.I'd love to do an in-depth interview about bearing that burden!
This is literally what anti-feminists are doing here. The issue is about characterisation and they're making it about gender.
They changed it because of characterisation. It didn't fit Tracer's character. It would have fit the female sniper's character.
Nothing to do with the SJW boogieman.
I just Play Battleborn.
But i don't get the shitstorm. Many characters have the "over the shoulder" Pose. I don't Know the Lore of Tracer And i actually don't give a shit. The only Problem that "I" see, is that blizzard uses the same poses for several characters. Thats Lazy.
Firstly, responding to fan criticism isn't censorship.
Secondly, they changed it because it conflicted with Tracer;s characterisation. Not because of gender.
Not everything is about gender Gary. Maybe you should stop getting triggered into anti-feminist rants just because a sentence contained the word 'female' and 'butt'.
Am I the only one who doesn't even understand it? How do you go from "Are people on other continents and cultures so incompetent that they need me to produce their culture," to "colored people are incompetent." He's obviously stating that everyone the world over is incompetent - it's equal opportunity discrimination.
So, if telltale started to make longer episodes because people were complaining about the short ones, is that censoring their art?
I fail to see how responding to characterisation concerns is censorship.
As another example, if you're writing a book, and you hold a focus group, and many members of that focus group think one chapter is particularly week, and your editor says maybe you should revise it, is that censor ship?
You seem to forget that we're talking about businesses here.
We don't really know the whole story, either Blizzard changed it because they felt like they had to, or they really did have another pose planned.
Also, if it all was truly about Tracer's character not matching the pose, would this complaint still be valid if Tracer was a guy instead of a woman.
That's the concern with Tracer. It had nothing to do with her character. The pose would have fit the female sniper much more.
The complain comes from the fact that the pose doesn't fit Tracer's character.
It's a bit like if solid snake wore a thong. Just like...what?
It's not to do with gender. Anti-feminists are the only one's making this about gender. It's a point of characterisation.
The pose would be excellent on the female sniper as she revels in her sexuality.
They felt they had to because there was such a split between her character and her pose. If the sniper had that pose there'd be no issue. It was simply bad characterisation.
Absoltuely 100% yes.
Imagine if, after scoring a headshot, solid snake pulled down his trousers, revealed a thong, slapped his bum and winked at the camera. It'd be completely and utterly random and not fit remotely with his character.
However, a male character who's obsessed with sex and sexuality doing that wouldn't seem THAT out of place.
Similarly, Tracer, whose characterisation has absolutely nothing to do with sexuality, seems really random when doing that. However the female sniper character would fit right in with it.
People need to stop making everything about gender. It's very tiresome.
On a side note, I actually thought there were a lot of egalitarian elements of that game, specifically in how little gender really came into it. A line I really love is Selvaria saying "This time, I am going to face you as a woman," in the exact same way people would be 'man up,' or things like that. Basically, she was using her womanhood to connote strength and honor, and I liked it.
That said, yes, her 'giant cupcakes' were a bit much.
Hm..
But as Gone Home shows us, if 'SJWs' do make games about the things they like and find interesting, Social Conservatism Warriors will still get up in arms about that. So not sure it's accurate?
People need to make up their minds over whether SJWs if they have an issue should make their own games rather than 'censor' other studios, or instead give feedback to studios with their opinions.
Opposing both, saying no you should making art you find interesting, and no you shouldn't give that particular feedback even if it's your opinion, basically results in you telling people not to express their opinions.
And surely that's much closer to censorship than expressing an opinion about a video game's characteriation?
Good job blizzard, Tracer can't poop anymore.
I don't think you can really compare someone looking over their shoulder to someone taking off their clothes.
What I was saying was, if Tracer was a male, and was in the exact same pose, 100% the same, no one would care.
Well taking off youre clothes isnt necessary if youre wearing somethink skin tight.
If that male character was wearing a skin tight body suit which showed off curves and did that pose? I think many would. I certainly would.
But that happens rarer for male characters. Which is logical and understandable because most developers are straight guys who prefer making Tracer wear those clothes and make that pose than characters like Solid Snake.
Regardless the vast majority of peopel on this thread seem to think that askign for a pose that is bad characterisation to be removed is censorship and SJWs gone mad or whatever, so when you say 'no-one would care' that doesnt seem to be true here.
That makes 50% of my statement invalid.
They actually released a statement that stated that they had an internal discussion to change it because it didn't fit the personality of the character, and they actually already had an alternate pose made, prior to the controversy. So, yes. We do know the whole story. They removed it themselves, because it didn't fit the personality of the character, not because of pressure from anyone. As I said above, there was one post that made a suggestion to remove the pose. There's no way that a team would remove something, if they had intended to keep it, just because one random person on the internet made a suggestion to remove it.
This is what the game's director, Jeffrey Kaplan, said about the situation:
If Tracer was a male and they had made that pose for him, of course they would have changed the pose, since this was done as part an internal discussion over two alternate takes of a pose that had both already been created. If he had been a male, the first pose still wouldn't have fit the personality of the character.
If Tracer was a guy and in the skin tight suit, I highly doubt there would be an outrage, not to mention, Snake has worn skin tight suits.
As I said, outside of character/costume design the game was amazing. That is why it's sad seeing the original concept art when compared to the original content. The Devs really had a good idea going but SEGA's top brass wanted to sell figurines, so the women had to be sexed up more. According to the commentator notes in my concept art book I bought for the game. I remember reading that one of the devs stated they fought so hard to stop it from happening but they were only able to get the "grunts" in the game ie none major female characters in baggy shorts, but the main 3 still ended up in mini skirts.
I still have nightmares with the bulge ;~;
Your attempt on trying to rile me up won't work. I am speaking for myself, not for others.
You're missing my point. If you want to use that argument take it to the others.
Eh, whatever. I've got the answers, nothing left to talk about, I'd rather not repeat myself.
There was no outrage over the sexuality of Tracer's pose though. The only outrage was from people who were furious because the team decided to remove the pose.
There was one post where someone suggested that they change the pose as it didn't fit the personality of the character (it was never about sexualization, but rather about characterization). The director agreed, and stated that the team had already been planning to change it as they had already made a second pose that fit the personality of the character better.
If this was a situation that had to do with sexualization of women instead of a matter of conflict with a character's personality, other women characters would also have their poses changed.
However, this pose remains in the game. The difference is that this pose fits the personality of Widowmaker, but it didn't fit Tracer's personality.
11+ People disagree with you and yes it is a feminist issue. It's been stated millions of times.
That is something I've always hated, and as I guy it just shows i have more respect for women than a lot of gamers seem to do. Lineage II comes to mind when I say that. Early on in the games development women wore armor, save for the dark elves, but dark elves both women/men had skimpy clothing so it made sense. So say level No Grade and D Grade (lvl1-20 required to use) looked fine. Most of C grade looked fine, B Grade it started becoming skimpy, A and S.... ya omg. Even the Female Dwarf wasn't immune to it by A grade panties and skin visible everywhere.
The people that complain about this stuff do not play the games. Anita, doesn't play videogames, theres videos online where she says games are stupid. Taking complaints of those people would be like TTG making an action game without any story because some random COD fanboy would say that TTG sucks and COD is more awesome.
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So whos stopping those people to make games, all I know from Gone Home is that its boring compared to The Stanley Parable which also came earlier if I recall.
Eastern Europe will not bend to EU in regards to immigration and I see they also not gonna bend the knee to the diversity and feminism fanatics in gaming, seeing how good Witcher 3 did I see good future for Eastern Europe developers. Its really starting to look like a new bastion of freedom compared to the west.
I wasn't even planning on playing the game, but this actually annoyed me more than I expected. They removed it on the grounds that the pose didn't fit in with her energetic and playful character, but since when does flirtatiousness interfere with these attributes, especially the latter. Seems a bit ridiculous for an optional pose.
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