Then why isn't it happening yet? Maybe because humans aren't sex driven machines that want to fuck every single thing they see? Your logic is that if a male and female are in the same bathroom the guy will instantly grab her and take her to a stall for some quality alone time.
No, but it could start. Like, say if I see a girl walk in there and then a guy walk in there, you can let both of them in there, and...you know what happens next. And it'll probably be silent. Did you know bathrooms have door locks?
Then why isn't it happening yet? Maybe because humans aren't sex driven machines that want to fuck every single thing they see? Your logic i… mores that if a male and female are in the same bathroom the guy will instantly grab her and take her to a stall for some quality alone time.
They do it as much in a gender neutral bathroom as they do it in an alleyway. Sexual predators have been around for ages, and they're not exclusively male either. Gender neutral bathrooms aren't disgusting just because it's possible to rape someone in it, you can rape someone anywhere.
They do it as much in a gender neutral bathroom as they do it in an alleyway. Sexual predators have been around for ages, and they're not ex… moreclusively male either. Gender neutral bathrooms aren't disgusting just because it's possible to rape someone in it, you can rape someone anywhere.
Should not be supported . It's a stupid....stupid idea...
Don't want guys in my restroom period . But I saw this coming . Man wanna be women and vice versa . Clearly the human race needs a do-over.
What is your opinion of gender neutral restrooms?
Should not be supported . It's a stupid....stupid idea...
Don't want guys in my r… moreestroom period . But I saw this coming . Man wanna be women and vice versa . Clearly the human race needs a do-over.
Middle ground, the most reasonable place you could be in politics, no wonder we're hardly ever there and why bills in congress hardly get passed. People are concerned about other people, the bathrooms themselves are merely a middle ground in this conversation. I, myself, only see this as bathroom issue and I like to listen to all possibilities and choose a side once I have.
It really comes down to people being the issue, not the restrooms, which is the root of what seems to be most concerns people have about a w… moreide variety of topics nowadays. I think they should try and find a middle ground, like open up gender neutral restrooms in certain places where restrooms are difficult to find/are often occupied/take a while to get to, cause then people would have more of an option, although most shops do have restrooms so people could always use those if they preferred.
Personally to me Transgender doesn't exist. There is no such thing. It's just a surgical make over and nothing more. I think south park hit the nail on the head when they had an entire episode on Plastic Surgery. Just because you have surgery to make yourself a Dolphin does not mean you're a Dolphin.
I don't mind the idea of neutral bathrooms, it's a sociological issue that causes people to be so up tight about the idea. However, I think the entire debate has come about for completely the wrong reasons. We shouldn't be arguing this because of Transgender equality as to me Transgender doesn't exist, it's a stupid reason to even bring the argument forward. We shouldn't be encouraging people to surgically change themselves and then declare they're a new gender.
I'd love to be a women, I've always felt that way, it would be a lot easier than trying to be a feminine man in today's world were femininity and masculinity are more defined than ever. By pretending to be a women. But it's stupid personally. As society needs to accept that both men and women can be masculine and feminine. How we physically look shouldn't define this. So that being said, any man who wants to physically change their body to "look" like a women, to me it is down right wrong, their friends, their family, no one should encourage this.
But this entire debate on restrooms has come about because of this and personally I find it all utterly stupid.
Personally to me Transgender doesn't exist. There is no such thing. It's just a surgical make over and nothing more. I think south park … morehit the nail on the head when they had an entire episode on Plastic Surgery. Just because you have surgery to make yourself a Dolphin does not mean you're a Dolphin.
I don't mind the idea of neutral bathrooms, it's a sociological issue that causes people to be so up tight about the idea. However, I think the entire debate has come about for completely the wrong reasons. We shouldn't be arguing this because of Transgender equality as to me Transgender doesn't exist, it's a stupid reason to even bring the argument forward. We shouldn't be encouraging people to surgically change themselves and then declare they're a new gender.
I'd love to be a women, I've always felt that way, it would be a lot easier than trying to be a feminine man in today's world were femininity and masculinity are more defin… [view original content]
i dont really have much of an opinion on public gender neurtral bathrooms as there are none in the area i live but i wouldnt care as long as i dont make eye contact with someone from the crack in the door
Personally to me Transgender doesn't exist. There is no such thing. It's just a surgical make over and nothing more. I think south park … morehit the nail on the head when they had an entire episode on Plastic Surgery. Just because you have surgery to make yourself a Dolphin does not mean you're a Dolphin.
I don't mind the idea of neutral bathrooms, it's a sociological issue that causes people to be so up tight about the idea. However, I think the entire debate has come about for completely the wrong reasons. We shouldn't be arguing this because of Transgender equality as to me Transgender doesn't exist, it's a stupid reason to even bring the argument forward. We shouldn't be encouraging people to surgically change themselves and then declare they're a new gender.
I'd love to be a women, I've always felt that way, it would be a lot easier than trying to be a feminine man in today's world were femininity and masculinity are more defin… [view original content]
Yes, academics that want their name in the books somewhere as everything else is already claimed. "Oh I will fight for Transgender rights!" Rather than using common sense. Again, if you had surgery to look like a Dolphin doesn't mean you're a Dolphin, common sense at it's core right there.
Common sense is no substitute for the consensus of research. The burden of proof falls on you. Otherwise: "that which is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
Yes, academics that want their name in the books somewhere as everything else is already claimed. "Oh I will fight for Transgender rights!"… more Rather than using common sense. Again, if you had surgery to look like a Dolphin doesn't mean you're a Dolphin, common sense at it's core right there.
Are you honestly using a dolphin as an example to show that being transgender is a simple phase? I'm actually laughing at the fact that you think that's solid proof to back up your argument. It's already been proven that being transgender is biologically caused so please get your facts right before blabbering ignorant bullshit onto the internet.
Yes, academics that want their name in the books somewhere as everything else is already claimed. "Oh I will fight for Transgender rights!"… more Rather than using common sense. Again, if you had surgery to look like a Dolphin doesn't mean you're a Dolphin, common sense at it's core right there.
Yes, academics that want their name in the books somewhere as everything else is already claimed. "Oh I will fight for Transgender rights!"… more Rather than using common sense. Again, if you had surgery to look like a Dolphin doesn't mean you're a Dolphin, common sense at it's core right there.
I really have no solid opinion on it and that's mostly because I'm in the middle of the road about it.
I can see both side of the arguments. I think that people should be able to use any bathroom that they feel comfortable with using and I also think that people have the right to voice that they are uncomfortable with it. Some of the excuses that people that use as to WHY they're uncomfortable with it is bullshit - while I can see a person or two taking advantage of this, it doesn't mean it WILL happen. Personally, I'd be uncomfortable with a woman who hasn't transitioned quite yet using the same bathroom as me, but you know what? As a society, we have a long way to go for equality. I'm sure I have ways to grow just as much as anyone else.
I'd like to add, however, that this is not about "how we feel anymore". The "Bathroom Laws" are going to be hit down by the Supreme Court, I'm just waiting for it. It's a matter of legality at this point considering that denying these bathrooms to any entire group of people is illegal by constitutional standards, really.
I don't think they've actually come to a clear definition has I've read the academic community is still split over the subject. As well as the word Transgender is just a modern rebranding of the older term Transsexual, it isn't like say a homosexuality, as Transgenders can also be homosexual, or heterosexual. Regardless of what psychological disorder someone would use to claim it exist. Transgenders seems to be nothing more than cosmetic. As the classification is so vague that it's in the end just someone who wants to find an excuse for a sex change.
I'd love you to prove that it's beyond just cosmetic. There isn't anything biological about it from what I've read. So ya the Dolphin reference is a perfect reference to how idiotic it is.
Are you honestly using a dolphin as an example to show that being transgender is a simple phase? I'm actually laughing at the fact that you … morethink that's solid proof to back up your argument. It's already been proven that being transgender is biologically caused so please get your facts right before blabbering ignorant bullshit onto the internet.
If the Romans can have children, women and men all in one huge public bathroom why can't we, modern day humans do the same? They invented toilets after all so, if they didn't have a problem then why do we?
I'll tell you why, because humans are so wrapped up in what's normal and what's different that we forget that we are all just a bunch of animals.
But I do admit sexual predators could be an issue but when are sexual predators not an issue? They could be anywhere and it could be the same case for assigned toilets, they just have to sneak up in there and boom, sexual predator in the loo with you. Having gender neutral bathrooms could help trans and non-binary people and why would you want to stop that? Because people are scared, scared of things that shouldn't bother us and scared of things that are none of our business. If you're so worried about sexual predators then why can't we solve the problem by letting trans and non-binary people go into the bathrooms they want to go into? But no one will allow that either, will they? And that's because people are so scared of something that is none of their bloody business, people spend two seconds in a loo, we need to get over it.
I say we all grow up and realise that we are a species that have driven other species to extinction so, one person in a toilet isn't gonna bother a species like that, right?
I honestly think if you have a dong you stand and piss in the gents' room, if you don't then you sit and piss in the ladies' room. No need to complicate shit.
Gender neutral bathrooms, sure they already exists. Gender neutral bathrooms being the only option, no.
Trans-people entering gender specific bathrooms when they don't actually look like the gender they identify as, no. There are already trans-people whom use the bathroom that represents their gender. Those people don't have issues because they look like the gender that they identify as. Sorry I don't support a grizzly looking perv who says he identifies as female to be able to walk into a female bathroom. Whos to say whos really trans, this is a slippery-slope.
Ok, that was pretty abhorrent behavior. To ask for a fucking ID from an obviously butch female is disgusting, especially since not one person using the restrooms seemed exactly favorable of their treatment to her in the first place. I mean it's not like anyone seemed uncomfortable and most of them knew the person was a female to begin with.
But, I also think Ana Kasparian is a fucking moron and never liked TYT's whole stereotyping all conservatives with the same brush, like as if every conservative can't think for themselves and are all hate-mongering pigs while they hate-monger themselves.
What I'd wish is that (some) cops could learn how to defuse a situation rather than escalating it. Why they immediately started accusing and forcibly removing someone who is just trying to piss in a fucking public restroom that's supposed to be accessible to anyone of that gender (whether they are that or identify as it, whatever) is retarded. Present why you're there, respect the situation and treat it delicately. And really? An ID? What does that dumbass think he is? Colombo?
@MosesARose wrote:
Trans-people entering gender specific bathrooms when they don't actually look like the gender they identify as, no. There are already trans-people whom use the bathroom that represents their gender. Those people don't have issues because they look like the gender that they identify as. Sorry I don't support a grizzly looking perv who says he identifies as female to be able to walk into a female bathroom. Whos to say whos really trans, this is a slippery-slope.
There is no "slippery slope". That's what pundits always use to make people scared, but what they don't acknowledge is that any legislation that protects transgender people always includes the wording "gender identity and expression". The latter is important, as these laws actually require transgender people to express their identity to be able to use the facilities. You can't just claim to be one gender, you have to actually present yourself as that gender.
It's all just a scare tactic, as there are no recorded crimes ever being made by transgender people in bathrooms (there was a case where a high school girl claimed that a transgender student harassed her in the change room, but it was later revealed that she had made it up to harass the transgender student). There are, however, many cases of transgender people being harassed, attacked, and even killed in restrooms and change rooms.
And these laws against transgender people are actually doing nothing but causing actual men who look like men and identify as men, to harass women (who were born as women, identify as women, but don't conform to a traditional appearance for their gender) in the restroom. So, in reality, these laws are actually causing men to harass women in the bathroom.
These laws are doing nothing but causing fear and harassment. It's making anyone who doesn't conform to gender norms scared to use the bathroom, even if they aren't transgender. And, it's fear for nothing, as there's no record of anyone being harassed by transgender people in restrooms or change rooms. However, as these cases show, there's a lot of instances of harassment towards people who don't fit gender norms, transgender or not.
Gender neutral bathrooms, sure they already exists. Gender neutral bathrooms being the only option, no.
Trans-people entering gender spec… moreific bathrooms when they don't actually look like the gender they identify as, no. There are already trans-people whom use the bathroom that represents their gender. Those people don't have issues because they look like the gender that they identify as. Sorry I don't support a grizzly looking perv who says he identifies as female to be able to walk into a female bathroom. Whos to say whos really trans, this is a slippery-slope.
Here's a video that really explains what I mean
enter link description here
Now like I said who's to say who's transgender. There will be creeps out there whom abuse this law, it's inevitable. Like I said If you look like the gender you identify as then, why do you need this law?
@MosesARose wrote:
Trans-people entering gender specific bathrooms when they don't actually look like the gender they identify as, no. Th… moreere are already trans-people whom use the bathroom that represents their gender. Those people don't have issues because they look like the gender that they identify as. Sorry I don't support a grizzly looking perv who says he identifies as female to be able to walk into a female bathroom. Whos to say whos really trans, this is a slippery-slope.
There is no "slippery slope". That's what pundits always use to make people scared, but what they don't acknowledge is that any legislation that protects transgender people always includes the wording "gender identity and expression". The latter is important, as these laws actually require transgender people to express their identity to be able to use the facilities. You can't just claim to be one gender, you have to actually present yourself as that gen… [view original content]
There's always bound to be jerks who make stupid stunts when they are against laws (look at the people who committed identity fraud to try to entrap Planned Parenthood into buying a black market fetus). The thing to note though is that this guy is in no way transgender, and didn't even try to present himself as transgender, so this law doesn't in any way cover him.
Does the law protect a transgender person’s right to use the restroom consistent with their gender identity? It remains somewhat unclear. Under the WLAD, we now have state law that specifically protects against discrimination in employment and places
of public accommodation, including public schools, based on one’s gender expression or identity. The Washington State Human Rights Commission
(HRC) – the agency responsible for enforcing the WLAD – publicly supports the right of transgender individuals to use restrooms consistent
with their gender identity.
Additional support for the rights of transgender students in public schools to use restrooms consistent with their gender identity may be found in the
Office of Superintendent of Public Instruction (OSPI) guidelines to school districts. These guidelines, which relate to the elimination of discrimination
in public schools, state that school districts should allow students to use the restrooms consistent with their gender identity consistently asserted at
school.
Note that it states that the gender identity has to be "consistently asserted". It certainly wasn't in this man's case.
He wasn't in any way transgender, just a man trying (and failing) to make a point because he's against this law. My point still stands. There are no cases of transgender people harassing people in bathrooms or change rooms.
There are perverts who have harassed people in change rooms, but none of them have ever been transgender people, and despite what the fear causing pundits claim, these laws won't protect them. That's the point with these laws that pundits ignore, when trying to scare people.
You can't go into change rooms without expressing yourself as the gender of that room. These laws require people to actually present themselves as the gender that they self identify. If they don't (as this man certainly did not), if the police are brought in, these people will be arrested, as these laws don't protect them.
Really here's a link of a man whom used this law to go get undressed in a female locker room: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/man-strips-i… moren-front-of-girls-in-swimming-pool-locker-says-transgender-law-a
Now like I said who's to say who's transgender. There will be creeps out there whom abuse this law, it's inevitable. Like I said If you look like the gender you identify as then, why do you need this law?
It does not matter if it was a test or not. There will be people who abuse this law, that's the point. what makes you think a man will not dress as a woman just to be a perv, and who will be the one whom check if the perv constantly identifies as a women? Many people believe gender is fluid anyway, meaning they feel like a woman one day and a man the next. Just look at joey salads, it's not hard to say you identify as a female just to enter the restroom.
There's always bound to be jerks who make stupid stunts when they are against laws (look at the people who committed identity fraud to try t… moreo entrap Planned Parenthood into buying a black market fetus). The thing to note though is that this guy is in no way transgender, and didn't even try to present himself as transgender, so this law doesn't in any way cover him.
The police weren't called in this case. If they were, he would have been arrested, as Washington's transgender laws actually don't allow a man to go into a women's change room if he presents as a man.
Does the law protect a transgender person’s right to use the restroom consistent with their gender identity?
It remains somewhat unclear. Under the WLAD, we now have state law that specifically protects against discrimination in employment and places
of public accommodation, including public schools, based on one’s gender expression or identity. The Washington State Human Ri… [view original content]
Sure. There's people who try to abuse every law (there was even a case of a cannibal trying to abuse consent laws by trying to claim that he didn't commit murder because the man he ate "consented" to it).
But do you really think that the number of people who do it are going to be dangerously high to negate the amount of people who are actually protected by this law? Will the crazy man who wants to test this law, or people conducting "social experiments" mean that preventing legitimate transgender people from being beaten, raped, or killed simply because they used the restroom should no longer be a concern? If the cannibal tried to use consent laws to get away with murder, does that mean that the consent laws are dangerous, and should be repealed? These laws actually protect a lot more people than they hurt. They shouldn't be repealed just because of the concern that a few might abuse them.
Besides, it's really hard to get away with abuse with these laws (the cannibal didn't win his case, in case you're wondering, since you can claim any crazy rule bending thing to try to protect you, but when it comes to actually winning your case, that's a different matter). It's really easy to prove that a person isn't transgender if they abused this law. The police department would just have to check in with the person's employers and neighbors. If there was no transgender history, then they'd know that the person was abusing the law.
It does not matter if it was a test or not. There will be people who abuse this law, that's the point. what makes you think a man will not d… moreress as a woman just to be a perv, and who will be the one whom check if the perv constantly identifies as a women? Many people believe gender is fluid anyway, meaning they feel like a woman one day and a man the next. Just look at joey salads, it's not hard to say you identify as a female just to enter the restroom.
enter link description here
Yes, academics that want their name in the books somewhere as everything else is already claimed. "Oh I will fight for Transgender rights!"… more Rather than using common sense. Again, if you had surgery to look like a Dolphin doesn't mean you're a Dolphin, common sense at it's core right there.
If we are talking about number of people that will abuse this law, lets talk about the number of people who are in fact trans. There is about 0.3 percent of trans people in the USA. Why are we making a law for that small percentage? It's a stupid law. If someone is making the efforts of looking like the gender they identify as, what is the purpose of this law when they can walk in the bathroom anyway without problems, they do it now. With this law being implemented sure trans people whom don't look like the gender they identify as get to use the rest room of their choice but it also invites pervs to do as they please.
If you are trans and are not making an effort to look like the gender you identify as then why do you need this bathroom law. If you're a trans women but still look very much like a man how is using the male bathroom oppressing? The people whom support this law claim it's no big deal for a man to use a woman's bathroom because they're just peeing. But this works both ways, it's no big deal for a man who looks like a man but identify as a woman to use the male bathroom room. Why do they need to use a female bathroom. This is just another case of the Oppression Olympics. And again how can you legitimately track if someone is consistently identifying themselves as trans, it's impossible.
Edit: also what makes you think this bathroom law will stop the rapes, and beatings of trans people?
Sure. There's people who try to abuse every law (there was even a case of a cannibal trying to abuse consent laws by trying to claim that h… moree didn't commit murder because the man he ate "consented" to it).
But do you really think that the number of people who do it are going to be dangerously high to negate the amount of people who are actually protected by this law? Will the crazy man who wants to test this law, or people conducting "social experiments" mean that preventing legitimate transgender people from being beaten, raped, or killed simply because they used the restroom should no longer be a concern? If the cannibal tried to use consent laws to get away with murder, does that mean that the consent laws are dangerous, and should be repealed? These laws actually protect a lot more people than they hurt. They shouldn't be repealed just because of the concern that a few might abuse them.
Besides, it's really hard to get away with… [view original content]
As I said, transgender people have been beaten, raped, and killed for using the facilities. These laws are to prevent that from happening, because before these there were no transgender rights laws at all. And sadly, many people got away with murder by transgender people by claiming that they "tricked", and in several cases the jury agreed with that defense.
All of these transgender people appeared to be the gender of the bathroom they attempted to use and were still beaten, raped, or killed. It doesn't matter that there are only a small percentage of transgender people in the United States, there still should be laws to protect them. There are a small amount of Native Americans in the country as well, but there are still specific laws that protect them and their heritage. Just because there's a small amount of people in a group doesn't mean that they deserve to be ignored.
As I said, there's a large history of transgender people who have been harassed, beaten, raped, or killed in the rest room, but no history of any transgender person harassing someone in the restroom or changing area. The only thing that exists is men performing stunts and posting videos trying to "prove" that there is a problem with these laws. The only thing they've proven is that women don't care about this issue as much as they thought that they did as no woman ever contacted the police due to their stunts. And, if the police were called in, the law would not be on their side as the laws require them to be legitimate in their gender expression and identity, and they were not.
This law won't prevent transgender people from being harassed (or worse) right away (as the articles above have shown), but it will with time. There is significant push back when any socially progressive law is made. There were a lot of riots, beatings, and killings regarding segregation when the anti-segregation laws were first put into place, but after decades the amount of people being beaten or killed by people still wanting segregation has diminished drastically. The same will be true here.
And again how can you legitimately track if someone is consistently identifying themselves as trans, it's impossible.
It's not impossible at all to prove whether someone is really transgender. It's really very simple, as I said before. All police need to do is ask neighbors and employers (and psychiatrists, as many (if not most) transgender people go through a "real life test" with a psychiatrist when they transition). If those people corroborate the claim that the person has a transgender history, then they are legitimately transgender. If that person has no transgender history, or only dressed as the opposite sex in cases of reported harrassment or abuse, then they are not transgender. It's that simple.
This law does not "invite pervs to do as they please". That's giving into the scare tactics of pundits, and there is no reason to be scared about these laws. They are specifically written to prevent people who want to prey on the opposite sex from abusing these laws by requiring the gender identity and expression to be genuine and proven. Without a proven history of being genuinely transgender (which is really easy to find out, as I stated above), the law would not be on their side.
If we are talking about number of people that will abuse this law, lets talk about the number of people who are in fact trans. There is abou… moret 0.3 percent of trans people in the USA. Why are we making a law for that small percentage? It's a stupid law. If someone is making the efforts of looking like the gender they identify as, what is the purpose of this law when they can walk in the bathroom anyway without problems, they do it now. With this law being implemented sure trans people whom don't look like the gender they identify as get to use the rest room of their choice but it also invites pervs to do as they please.
If you are trans and are not making an effort to look like the gender you identify as then why do you need this bathroom law. If you're a trans women but still look very much like a man how is using the male bathroom oppressing? The people whom support this law claim it's no big deal for a man to use a woman's bathroom becaus… [view original content]
Yeah, so a restroom law will change this instead of an actual law that protects their rights. This law is just to help people feel less "oppressed" it does nothing to stop the rapes, and beatings of trans people. This is the same as saying feminism will stop rape. People will rape or beat people regardless because they are just asses. As for those people in those articles it's hard to say if they actually presented as the gender they identified as, given there's no pictures of them. But I'm sorry, if you look like this
There is no way to tell you were born as a male. And I'm sure she has no problem going into female restrooms without this law. This is taking the effort of looking like the gender you identify as, not just putting on a dress and wig.
As I said, transgender people have been beaten, raped, and killed for using the facilities. These laws are to prevent that from happening, … morebecause before these there were no transgender rights laws at all. And sadly, many people got away with murder by transgender people by claiming that they "tricked", and in several cases the jury agreed with that defense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beating_of_Chrissy_Lee_Polis
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2014/03/report_transgender_teen_attack.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/28/trans-woman-raped-at-stonewall-inn-new-york-s-famous-lgbt-bar.html
All of these transgender people appeared to be the gender of the bathroom they attempted to use and were still beaten, raped, or killed. It doesn't matter that there are only a small percentage of transgender people in the United States, there still should be laws to protect them. There are a small amount of Native Americ… [view original content]
They are specifically written to prevent people who want to prey on the opposite sex from abusing these laws by requiring the gender identity and expression to be genuine and proven.
And how will they be proven in that moment? Will there be police officers stationed at every locker room to make sure there aren't pervs dressing as women just to go into the locker room? and will these officers be the ones whom follow up on these cases. Police barely follow up on rape allegations, so I doubt they'll take the time following up with neighbors and such just to prove this person is not trans.
As I said, transgender people have been beaten, raped, and killed for using the facilities. These laws are to prevent that from happening, … morebecause before these there were no transgender rights laws at all. And sadly, many people got away with murder by transgender people by claiming that they "tricked", and in several cases the jury agreed with that defense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beating_of_Chrissy_Lee_Polis
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2014/03/report_transgender_teen_attack.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/28/trans-woman-raped-at-stonewall-inn-new-york-s-famous-lgbt-bar.html
All of these transgender people appeared to be the gender of the bathroom they attempted to use and were still beaten, raped, or killed. It doesn't matter that there are only a small percentage of transgender people in the United States, there still should be laws to protect them. There are a small amount of Native Americ… [view original content]
As I said, those transgender women did appear as women, but were still beaten in the rest room.
Chrissy Lee Polis
Jewlyes Gutierrez (the Hercules teen from the second article)
These transgender women did more than just put "on a dress and wig". They had naturally long hair, wore makeup, and women's clothing but still were assaulted because they were large or had natural male features (which certainly isn't their fault, as they most likely transitioned after puberty).
These laws are to made to stop that kind of thing from happening. It won't do it right away, as I noted with segregation laws, but it will help in the future. Without these laws, the people who harass these transgender people wouldn't be charged with a crime, and possibly worse - these transgender people could possibly be charged with crimes themselves, simply for using the restroom, which is preposterous.
Yeah, so a restroom law will change this instead of an actual law that protects their rights. This law is just to help people feel less "opp… moreressed" it does nothing to stop the rapes, and beatings of trans people. This is the same as saying feminism will stop rape. People will rape or beat people regardless because they are just asses. As for those people in those articles it's hard to say if they actually presented as the gender they identified as, given there's no pictures of them. But I'm sorry, if you look like this
There is no way to tell you were born as a male. And I'm sure she has no problem going into female restrooms without this law. This is taking the effort of looking like the gender you identify as, not just putting on a dress and wig.
Comments
Then why isn't it happening yet? Maybe because humans aren't sex driven machines that want to fuck every single thing they see? Your logic is that if a male and female are in the same bathroom the guy will instantly grab her and take her to a stall for some quality alone time.
Just to clarify my exact position on this, since I was a bit vague...
Transgender bathroom choice : Fully legalize it and make states comply.
Intersex Bathrooms : Legalize it, but don't require it. Subsidize the voluntary construction of some in a certain area, as a test.
Guys do that. That's just what happens in this somewhat fucked-up world
They do it as much in a gender neutral bathroom as they do it in an alleyway. Sexual predators have been around for ages, and they're not exclusively male either. Gender neutral bathrooms aren't disgusting just because it's possible to rape someone in it, you can rape someone anywhere.
I've said my piece.
Should not be supported . It's a stupid....stupid idea...
Don't want guys in my restroom period . But I saw this coming . Man wanna be women and vice versa . Clearly the human race needs a do-over.
Can't say I expected an actual intelligent comment from you. "Transgenders are weirdos, the human race is doomed, I'm edgy haha"
It's honest .
Middle ground, the most reasonable place you could be in politics, no wonder we're hardly ever there and why bills in congress hardly get passed. People are concerned about other people, the bathrooms themselves are merely a middle ground in this conversation. I, myself, only see this as bathroom issue and I like to listen to all possibilities and choose a side once I have.
Personally to me Transgender doesn't exist. There is no such thing. It's just a surgical make over and nothing more. I think south park hit the nail on the head when they had an entire episode on Plastic Surgery. Just because you have surgery to make yourself a Dolphin does not mean you're a Dolphin.
I don't mind the idea of neutral bathrooms, it's a sociological issue that causes people to be so up tight about the idea. However, I think the entire debate has come about for completely the wrong reasons. We shouldn't be arguing this because of Transgender equality as to me Transgender doesn't exist, it's a stupid reason to even bring the argument forward. We shouldn't be encouraging people to surgically change themselves and then declare they're a new gender.
I'd love to be a women, I've always felt that way, it would be a lot easier than trying to be a feminine man in today's world were femininity and masculinity are more defined than ever. By pretending to be a women. But it's stupid personally. As society needs to accept that both men and women can be masculine and feminine. How we physically look shouldn't define this. So that being said, any man who wants to physically change their body to "look" like a women, to me it is down right wrong, their friends, their family, no one should encourage this.
But this entire debate on restrooms has come about because of this and personally I find it all utterly stupid.
This ^ Times a thousand.
i dont really have much of an opinion on public gender neurtral bathrooms as there are none in the area i live but i wouldnt care as long as i dont make eye contact with someone from the crack in the door
is this a joke?? please do your research before claiming transgender does not exist. lmao
Yes, academics that want their name in the books somewhere as everything else is already claimed. "Oh I will fight for Transgender rights!" Rather than using common sense. Again, if you had surgery to look like a Dolphin doesn't mean you're a Dolphin, common sense at it's core right there.
Common sense is no substitute for the consensus of research. The burden of proof falls on you. Otherwise: "that which is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."
Are you honestly using a dolphin as an example to show that being transgender is a simple phase? I'm actually laughing at the fact that you think that's solid proof to back up your argument. It's already been proven that being transgender is biologically caused so please get your facts right before blabbering ignorant bullshit onto the internet.
Because this is where American police resources are best spent:
enter link description here
But I just got my dolphinplasty...
I really have no solid opinion on it and that's mostly because I'm in the middle of the road about it.
I can see both side of the arguments. I think that people should be able to use any bathroom that they feel comfortable with using and I also think that people have the right to voice that they are uncomfortable with it. Some of the excuses that people that use as to WHY they're uncomfortable with it is bullshit - while I can see a person or two taking advantage of this, it doesn't mean it WILL happen. Personally, I'd be uncomfortable with a woman who hasn't transitioned quite yet using the same bathroom as me, but you know what? As a society, we have a long way to go for equality. I'm sure I have ways to grow just as much as anyone else.
I'd like to add, however, that this is not about "how we feel anymore". The "Bathroom Laws" are going to be hit down by the Supreme Court, I'm just waiting for it. It's a matter of legality at this point considering that denying these bathrooms to any entire group of people is illegal by constitutional standards, really.
Honestly uneducated.
Give me an example of an expert?
I don't think they've actually come to a clear definition has I've read the academic community is still split over the subject. As well as the word Transgender is just a modern rebranding of the older term Transsexual, it isn't like say a homosexuality, as Transgenders can also be homosexual, or heterosexual. Regardless of what psychological disorder someone would use to claim it exist. Transgenders seems to be nothing more than cosmetic. As the classification is so vague that it's in the end just someone who wants to find an excuse for a sex change.
I'd love you to prove that it's beyond just cosmetic. There isn't anything biological about it from what I've read. So ya the Dolphin reference is a perfect reference to how idiotic it is.
If the Romans can have children, women and men all in one huge public bathroom why can't we, modern day humans do the same? They invented toilets after all so, if they didn't have a problem then why do we?
I'll tell you why, because humans are so wrapped up in what's normal and what's different that we forget that we are all just a bunch of animals.
But I do admit sexual predators could be an issue but when are sexual predators not an issue? They could be anywhere and it could be the same case for assigned toilets, they just have to sneak up in there and boom, sexual predator in the loo with you. Having gender neutral bathrooms could help trans and non-binary people and why would you want to stop that? Because people are scared, scared of things that shouldn't bother us and scared of things that are none of our business. If you're so worried about sexual predators then why can't we solve the problem by letting trans and non-binary people go into the bathrooms they want to go into? But no one will allow that either, will they? And that's because people are so scared of something that is none of their bloody business, people spend two seconds in a loo, we need to get over it.
I say we all grow up and realise that we are a species that have driven other species to extinction so, one person in a toilet isn't gonna bother a species like that, right?
I honestly think if you have a dong you stand and piss in the gents' room, if you don't then you sit and piss in the ladies' room. No need to complicate shit.
I'm for it, if it makes Trans/Non binary people or people who are questioning their gender happy.
No just honest. If you nor your friend can't handle that .Too bad .That's not my problem .
Gender neutral bathrooms, sure they already exists. Gender neutral bathrooms being the only option, no.
Trans-people entering gender specific bathrooms when they don't actually look like the gender they identify as, no. There are already trans-people whom use the bathroom that represents their gender. Those people don't have issues because they look like the gender that they identify as. Sorry I don't support a grizzly looking perv who says he identifies as female to be able to walk into a female bathroom. Whos to say whos really trans, this is a slippery-slope.
Here's a video that really explains what I mean
enter link description here
Ok, that was pretty abhorrent behavior. To ask for a fucking ID from an obviously butch female is disgusting, especially since not one person using the restrooms seemed exactly favorable of their treatment to her in the first place. I mean it's not like anyone seemed uncomfortable and most of them knew the person was a female to begin with.
But, I also think Ana Kasparian is a fucking moron and never liked TYT's whole stereotyping all conservatives with the same brush, like as if every conservative can't think for themselves and are all hate-mongering pigs while they hate-monger themselves.
What I'd wish is that (some) cops could learn how to defuse a situation rather than escalating it. Why they immediately started accusing and forcibly removing someone who is just trying to piss in a fucking public restroom that's supposed to be accessible to anyone of that gender (whether they are that or identify as it, whatever) is retarded. Present why you're there, respect the situation and treat it delicately. And really? An ID? What does that dumbass think he is? Colombo?
"Protect & Serve".
There is no "slippery slope". That's what pundits always use to make people scared, but what they don't acknowledge is that any legislation that protects transgender people always includes the wording "gender identity and expression". The latter is important, as these laws actually require transgender people to express their identity to be able to use the facilities. You can't just claim to be one gender, you have to actually present yourself as that gender.
It's all just a scare tactic, as there are no recorded crimes ever being made by transgender people in bathrooms (there was a case where a high school girl claimed that a transgender student harassed her in the change room, but it was later revealed that she had made it up to harass the transgender student). There are, however, many cases of transgender people being harassed, attacked, and even killed in restrooms and change rooms.
And these laws against transgender people are actually doing nothing but causing actual men who look like men and identify as men, to harass women (who were born as women, identify as women, but don't conform to a traditional appearance for their gender) in the restroom. So, in reality, these laws are actually causing men to harass women in the bathroom.
Cops Force Lesbian Out Of Women's Bathroom
Self-Appointed Bathroom Cop Catches Dallas Woman Using Women's Restroom
These laws are doing nothing but causing fear and harassment. It's making anyone who doesn't conform to gender norms scared to use the bathroom, even if they aren't transgender. And, it's fear for nothing, as there's no record of anyone being harassed by transgender people in restrooms or change rooms. However, as these cases show, there's a lot of instances of harassment towards people who don't fit gender norms, transgender or not.
Really here's a link of a man whom used this law to go get undressed in a female locker room: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/man-strips-in-front-of-girls-in-swimming-pool-locker-says-transgender-law-a
Now like I said who's to say who's transgender. There will be creeps out there whom abuse this law, it's inevitable. Like I said If you look like the gender you identify as then, why do you need this law?
There's always bound to be jerks who make stupid stunts when they are against laws (look at the people who committed identity fraud to try to entrap Planned Parenthood into buying a black market fetus). The thing to note though is that this guy is in no way transgender, and didn't even try to present himself as transgender, so this law doesn't in any way cover him.
The police weren't called in this case. If they were, he would have been arrested, as Washington's transgender laws actually don't allow a man to go into a women's change room if he presents as a man.
Does the law protect a transgender person’s right to use the restroom consistent with their gender identity?
It remains somewhat unclear. Under the WLAD, we now have state law that specifically protects against discrimination in employment and places
of public accommodation, including public schools, based on one’s gender expression or identity. The Washington State Human Rights Commission
(HRC) – the agency responsible for enforcing the WLAD – publicly supports the right of transgender individuals to use restrooms consistent
with their gender identity.
Additional support for the rights of transgender students in public schools to use restrooms consistent with their gender identity may be found in the
Office of Superintendent of Public Instruction (OSPI) guidelines to school districts. These guidelines, which relate to the elimination of discrimination
in public schools, state that school districts should allow students to use the restrooms consistent with their gender identity consistently asserted at
school.
Note that it states that the gender identity has to be "consistently asserted". It certainly wasn't in this man's case.
He wasn't in any way transgender, just a man trying (and failing) to make a point because he's against this law. My point still stands. There are no cases of transgender people harassing people in bathrooms or change rooms.
There are perverts who have harassed people in change rooms, but none of them have ever been transgender people, and despite what the fear causing pundits claim, these laws won't protect them. That's the point with these laws that pundits ignore, when trying to scare people.
You can't go into change rooms without expressing yourself as the gender of that room. These laws require people to actually present themselves as the gender that they self identify. If they don't (as this man certainly did not), if the police are brought in, these people will be arrested, as these laws don't protect them.
It does not matter if it was a test or not. There will be people who abuse this law, that's the point. what makes you think a man will not dress as a woman just to be a perv, and who will be the one whom check if the perv constantly identifies as a women? Many people believe gender is fluid anyway, meaning they feel like a woman one day and a man the next. Just look at joey salads, it's not hard to say you identify as a female just to enter the restroom.
enter link description here
Sure. There's people who try to abuse every law (there was even a case of a cannibal trying to abuse consent laws by trying to claim that he didn't commit murder because the man he ate "consented" to it).
But do you really think that the number of people who do it are going to be dangerously high to negate the amount of people who are actually protected by this law? Will the crazy man who wants to test this law, or people conducting "social experiments" mean that preventing legitimate transgender people from being beaten, raped, or killed simply because they used the restroom should no longer be a concern? If the cannibal tried to use consent laws to get away with murder, does that mean that the consent laws are dangerous, and should be repealed? These laws actually protect a lot more people than they hurt. They shouldn't be repealed just because of the concern that a few might abuse them.
Besides, it's really hard to get away with abuse with these laws (the cannibal didn't win his case, in case you're wondering, since you can claim any crazy rule bending thing to try to protect you, but when it comes to actually winning your case, that's a different matter). It's really easy to prove that a person isn't transgender if they abused this law. The police department would just have to check in with the person's employers and neighbors. If there was no transgender history, then they'd know that the person was abusing the law.
This!
Finally someone said it.
If we are talking about number of people that will abuse this law, lets talk about the number of people who are in fact trans. There is about 0.3 percent of trans people in the USA. Why are we making a law for that small percentage? It's a stupid law. If someone is making the efforts of looking like the gender they identify as, what is the purpose of this law when they can walk in the bathroom anyway without problems, they do it now. With this law being implemented sure trans people whom don't look like the gender they identify as get to use the rest room of their choice but it also invites pervs to do as they please.
If you are trans and are not making an effort to look like the gender you identify as then why do you need this bathroom law. If you're a trans women but still look very much like a man how is using the male bathroom oppressing? The people whom support this law claim it's no big deal for a man to use a woman's bathroom because they're just peeing. But this works both ways, it's no big deal for a man who looks like a man but identify as a woman to use the male bathroom room. Why do they need to use a female bathroom. This is just another case of the Oppression Olympics. And again how can you legitimately track if someone is consistently identifying themselves as trans, it's impossible.
Edit: also what makes you think this bathroom law will stop the rapes, and beatings of trans people?
As I said, transgender people have been beaten, raped, and killed for using the facilities. These laws are to prevent that from happening, because before these there were no transgender rights laws at all. And sadly, many people got away with murder by transgender people by claiming that they "tricked", and in several cases the jury agreed with that defense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beating_of_Chrissy_Lee_Polis
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2014/03/report_transgender_teen_attack.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/28/trans-woman-raped-at-stonewall-inn-new-york-s-famous-lgbt-bar.html
All of these transgender people appeared to be the gender of the bathroom they attempted to use and were still beaten, raped, or killed. It doesn't matter that there are only a small percentage of transgender people in the United States, there still should be laws to protect them. There are a small amount of Native Americans in the country as well, but there are still specific laws that protect them and their heritage. Just because there's a small amount of people in a group doesn't mean that they deserve to be ignored.
As I said, there's a large history of transgender people who have been harassed, beaten, raped, or killed in the rest room, but no history of any transgender person harassing someone in the restroom or changing area. The only thing that exists is men performing stunts and posting videos trying to "prove" that there is a problem with these laws. The only thing they've proven is that women don't care about this issue as much as they thought that they did as no woman ever contacted the police due to their stunts. And, if the police were called in, the law would not be on their side as the laws require them to be legitimate in their gender expression and identity, and they were not.
This law won't prevent transgender people from being harassed (or worse) right away (as the articles above have shown), but it will with time. There is significant push back when any socially progressive law is made. There were a lot of riots, beatings, and killings regarding segregation when the anti-segregation laws were first put into place, but after decades the amount of people being beaten or killed by people still wanting segregation has diminished drastically. The same will be true here.
It's not impossible at all to prove whether someone is really transgender. It's really very simple, as I said before. All police need to do is ask neighbors and employers (and psychiatrists, as many (if not most) transgender people go through a "real life test" with a psychiatrist when they transition). If those people corroborate the claim that the person has a transgender history, then they are legitimately transgender. If that person has no transgender history, or only dressed as the opposite sex in cases of reported harrassment or abuse, then they are not transgender. It's that simple.
This law does not "invite pervs to do as they please". That's giving into the scare tactics of pundits, and there is no reason to be scared about these laws. They are specifically written to prevent people who want to prey on the opposite sex from abusing these laws by requiring the gender identity and expression to be genuine and proven. Without a proven history of being genuinely transgender (which is really easy to find out, as I stated above), the law would not be on their side.
Yeah, so a restroom law will change this instead of an actual law that protects their rights. This law is just to help people feel less "oppressed" it does nothing to stop the rapes, and beatings of trans people. This is the same as saying feminism will stop rape. People will rape or beat people regardless because they are just asses. As for those people in those articles it's hard to say if they actually presented as the gender they identified as, given there's no pictures of them. But I'm sorry, if you look like this
There is no way to tell you were born as a male. And I'm sure she has no problem going into female restrooms without this law. This is taking the effort of looking like the gender you identify as, not just putting on a dress and wig.
Sorry? I don't recall making either of those claims. And besides, I'm just being honest. If you can't handle it, then too bad.
And how will they be proven in that moment? Will there be police officers stationed at every locker room to make sure there aren't pervs dressing as women just to go into the locker room? and will these officers be the ones whom follow up on these cases. Police barely follow up on rape allegations, so I doubt they'll take the time following up with neighbors and such just to prove this person is not trans.
As I said, those transgender women did appear as women, but were still beaten in the rest room.
Chrissy Lee Polis
Jewlyes Gutierrez (the Hercules teen from the second article)
These transgender women did more than just put "on a dress and wig". They had naturally long hair, wore makeup, and women's clothing but still were assaulted because they were large or had natural male features (which certainly isn't their fault, as they most likely transitioned after puberty).
These laws are to made to stop that kind of thing from happening. It won't do it right away, as I noted with segregation laws, but it will help in the future. Without these laws, the people who harass these transgender people wouldn't be charged with a crime, and possibly worse - these transgender people could possibly be charged with crimes themselves, simply for using the restroom, which is preposterous.