I thought you said that Glen was the only season1 character left, so I said he was dead. Read the post again and realised you said Clem so I quickly deleted it A sign I shouldn't stay up past 1am.
I thought you said that Glen was the only season1 character left, so I said he was dead. Read the post again and realised you said Clem so I quickly deleted it A sign I shouldn't stay up past 1am.
Not bad Dan, whereas I would've instituted a scorch earth policy for No Going Back, you've found a way (somehow) to make it a much more palatable and intriguing episode.
I still would've left Christa's fate unknown for the audience after the raider attack and of course would've wiped Kenny entirely from the season. You may have marginally improved his development and the final choice is much more concise than the rubbish we were originally fed, I can't help but feel you made his agency too powerful, whereas Clementine, again, is left to watch helplessly as more "callbacks" are made.
Personally, I would've never introduced Carver until much later, giving his ferocity time to feel more impactful once he is introduced.
Other than that, you should've left Sam (the dog) in because dogs are fucking rad. That's all really.
I still would've left Christa's fate unknown for the audience after the raider attack
Any particular reason why? I felt that Christa and Omid were terribly wasted in season 2 and having them both involved as long as they were suited me perfectly if that was how they made the game with my idea. However, i think in story matters definitely some characters fates would be left better unknown if it suited the situation like Lilly or Molly for example.
and of course would've wiped Kenny entirely from the season
Yeah but that's because of your hate for him which in my opinion is ridiculous that you wouldn't include him simply for not liking him because characters we hate can be used to an advantage, giving us more to talk about etc and his involvement in season 2 (again my opinion) was very much welcomed and made the story a damn sight more interesting than the majority of the written season 2 characters. There would be hardly anything interesting to talk about if he wasn't ever included in the game and you know it. Look at all the debates the last 2 years? Love him or hate him, Telltale created a masterpiece that has divided fans more than any other game character i know ever could. Anyway, including characters we don't like can also have positives in the sense depending on what someone writes, they can redeem his character, or as i have tried to change is make him less aggressive and villanous as they made him out to be in season 2 which a lot of people didn't like. I deliberately steered away from having the spotlight on him because I know hateful people (on his character like yourself) would still criticise him even if he did something so kind and humane because you can't let go or forgive his past actions. But anyway, my post was never to cause an argument but you push my buttons whenever Kenny is mentioned. No offence intended by the way. I think we should leave it at that.
I can't help but feel you made his agency too powerful, whereas Clementine, again, is left to watch helplessly as more "callbacks" are made.
Please explain what you mean here? Made his agency too powerful? Clem is left to watch helplessly? Callbacks are made??
Not bad Dan, whereas I would've instituted a scorch earth policy for No Going Back, you've found a way (somehow) to make it a much more pala… moretable and intriguing episode.
I still would've left Christa's fate unknown for the audience after the raider attack and of course would've wiped Kenny entirely from the season. You may have marginally improved his development and the final choice is much more concise than the rubbish we were originally fed, I can't help but feel you made his agency too powerful, whereas Clementine, again, is left to watch helplessly as more "callbacks" are made.
Personally, I would've never introduced Carver until much later, giving his ferocity time to feel more impactful once he is introduced.
Other than that, you should've left Sam (the dog) in because dogs are fucking rad. That's all really.
Christa and Omid's fate I found was done extraordinarily well done considering what All That Remains was meant to show was seclusion and isolation, making Clementine feel much more vulnerable and helpless. A bitter way to shoe away the last remnants of family Clem had left, stripping her of her power. One of the reasons ATR was my second favorite episode save No Time Left was for that very reason. One of the reasons bringing Kenny back didn't fit the mold the season was building up to.
We were as Clementine left to fend for herself, within human power off course. None of the jumping Carver from a Riddick-esque takedown or her fighting off hordes of walkers single-handedly. Omid's death was unfair, but that's the entire point. and her and Christa's relationship seemingly being much more distant was a very intriguing development step in the right direction before she was separated and left in a perpetually unknown status.
With Kenny making his way back into the season, it disrupted the kind of cold almost bitter Clementine the season was building in favor for her to strike loyalties almost within a few hours rather than naturally progressing an organic friendship with Luke and company through interesting conversations and situations.
And by the whole "call-back" comment. I honestly would've been pretty uncomfortable with Kenny having had such a similarly done killing, almost as if it were meant to be some tongue-in-cheek call-back to season one. I understand it's supposed to be re-incorporating a scenario, but I would've opted for a less predictable death honestly. Maybe instead of Kenny taking the final strike, Carver could've been left to an oncoming heard or Clem could've spoiled her innocence further by finishing him. It just seems like he's always made to be the one to end any given fight he's in and I find it to taint the suspense.
I still would've left Christa's fate unknown for the audience after the raider attack
Any particular reason why? I felt that Christa… more and Omid were terribly wasted in season 2 and having them both involved as long as they were suited me perfectly if that was how they made the game with my idea. However, i think in story matters definitely some characters fates would be left better unknown if it suited the situation like Lilly or Molly for example.
and of course would've wiped Kenny entirely from the season
Yeah but that's because of your hate for him which in my opinion is ridiculous that you wouldn't include him simply for not liking him because characters we hate can be used to an advantage, giving us more to talk about etc and his involvement in season 2 (again my opinion) was very much welcomed and made the story a damn sight more interesting than the majority of the written season 2 characters. There would be hardly … [view original content]
I've never really had many thoughts around season 1, but I imagine if I wanted to write up all my wants for season 2 I would end up rewriting it entirely.
I felt like there was a waste of character potantial in the last episodes of season 2, Nick and Sarah in particular (as most fans seem to agree). I am not especially attached to Luke, but Jane as the main opposition to Kenny came a bit out of the blue for me to really find her death that horrific. If they had started to build the relationship with her from the start of episode 3 instead of the end of it, and had not made off with all the other characters I could have imagined a more conflicting finale for me.
This is great, I love the dedication and kept on reading. I love how you developed most of the characters. I was still expecting Eddie or Nate to show up in the story especially since Eddie was the silhouette in episode 4.
I see things from your point of view on the fates of Omid and Christa after reading that. I guess that with me, i feel their characters could have been developed further and have more input in the season 2 story which is why i felt keeping them alive/lasting longer would be a benefit. Plus i think season 2 needed their appearance in the game. I whenever i watch a tv show or play a game series like this, i'm one of these people who gets attached to characters that have been around for a while and the longer they last the more i like them. Omid and Christa were great and whilst i see it from your point of view on All That Remains having a sense of isolation to do with Clem, i still couldn't just let those characters exit the series after only the first 10-15 mins of the season.
And by the whole "call-back" comment. I honestly would've been pretty uncomfortable with Kenny having had such a similarly done killing, almost as if it were meant to be some tongue-in-cheek call-back to season one. I understand it's supposed to be re-incorporating a scenario, but I would've opted for a less predictable death honestly
Oh i see now sorry, yeah that part lol! I knew it wasn't going to be popular and i guess i wrote that merely for amusement purporses given that Carver had a gruesome death coming and that it was a deliberate throwback to season 1 almost as if it was taking the piss. Ahh i dunno, there are many ways Carver could have met his end, your idea included was good, maybe a Ramsey Bolton death? Lol. I guess i'll leave it up to anyone's imagination. Thanks for the reply
Absolutely.
Christa and Omid's fate I found was done extraordinarily well done considering what All That Remains was meant to show was se… moreclusion and isolation, making Clementine feel much more vulnerable and helpless. A bitter way to shoe away the last remnants of family Clem had left, stripping her of her power. One of the reasons ATR was my second favorite episode save No Time Left was for that very reason. One of the reasons bringing Kenny back didn't fit the mold the season was building up to.
We were as Clementine left to fend for herself, within human power off course. None of the jumping Carver from a Riddick-esque takedown or her fighting off hordes of walkers single-handedly. Omid's death was unfair, but that's the entire point. and her and Christa's relationship seemingly being much more distant was a very intriguing development step in the right direction before she was separated and left in a perpetually unknown status.
W… [view original content]
I too liked Omid and especially Christa being in my top 5 of all of them. I just felt her departure hit such a great mark for the tone the episode was striving for.
But to each their own in the regard of if her and Omid's treatment was warranted.
I see things from your point of view on the fates of Omid and Christa after reading that. I guess that with me, i feel their characters coul… mored have been developed further and have more input in the season 2 story which is why i felt keeping them alive/lasting longer would be a benefit. Plus i think season 2 needed their appearance in the game. I whenever i watch a tv show or play a game series like this, i'm one of these people who gets attached to characters that have been around for a while and the longer they last the more i like them. Omid and Christa were great and whilst i see it from your point of view on All That Remains having a sense of isolation to do with Clem, i still couldn't just let those characters exit the series after only the first 10-15 mins of the season.
And by the whole "call-back" comment. I honestly would've been pretty uncomfortable with Kenny having had such a similarly done killing, almost as if it were meant… [view original content]
This is great, I love the dedication and kept on reading. I love how you developed most of the characters. I was still expecting Eddie or Nate to show up in the story especially since Eddie was the silhouette in episode 4.
Of course.
I too liked Omid and especially Christa being in my top 5 of all of them. I just felt her departure hit such a great mark for … morethe tone the episode was striving for.
But to each their own in the regard of if her and Omid's treatment was warranted.
It's not that I don't want to read your post, it's quite a lot of content to look into and then coming up with a response.
Once I get around to it, I'll make a post.
From your profile settings where the listing for the pre-set avatars are, you can select the last one on the docket (the far right I believe) and from there, you should get a link to Gravatar. Set up an account (it's relatively easy, just an email and select a password I think is about all it asks).
The final step is selecting your pic, all you do is go to the top left corner and it'll give you an option to set a new picture which you can do either from your documents, or from images straight from Google or other search engines.
And that's about it, you can crop the images to your liking and select a rating (always select G though, otherwise it'll lock the image out of this particular site. hence why my image is of Sarita with 7 inches of steel through her skull).
And that's all there is, just select the image after and confirm and you're golden.
You have to set up a Gravatar account.
From your profile settings where the listing for the pre-set avatars are, you can select the last … moreone on the docket (the far right I believe) and from there, you should get a link to Gravatar. Set up an account (it's relatively easy, just an email and select a password I think is about all it asks).
The final step is selecting your pic, all you do is go to the top left corner and it'll give you an option to set a new picture which you can do either from your documents, or from images straight from Google or other search engines.
And that's about it, you can crop the images to your liking and select a rating (always select G though, otherwise it'll lock the image out of this particular site. hence why my image is of Sarita with 7 inches of steel through her skull).
And that's all there is, just select the image after and confirm and you're golden.
Right, since you asked for my opinion, I'll share my thoughts below:
Season 1
Doug (if chosen over Carley)
I can somewhat see Doug being Lee's 'right hand man' after Episode 3, but Kenny would fill the role more than Doug would in terms of personality and willingness for pragmatic decisions. I think that Doug is more likely to be an 'adviser' type, as he known to use his brain than brawn to help his group, such as the bell system to warn everyone of strangers approaching them in Episode 2.
I'm not sure if Doug would be the kind of person to share bonds with others, as I always got the impression that he keeps to himself, but I could see Doug getting along with Omid somewhat.
I agree that Ben taking the hatchet from the door was stupid even for him, and I prefer that the door would break open regardless.
Doug's death in Crawford is a nice callback to how he dies saving someone, an act that most wouldn't assume that Doug would be capable of. I'm not sure if I prefer his alternate death on the exact same episode, but it does make sense that with Doug staying behind in the house, he would be killed for trying to stop the Stranger from kidnapping Clementine.
Carley (if chosen over Doug)
Though I like the idea of having a romance option with Carley, I'm a little iffy due to the rumors that Lee may have also killed his wife in a rage. Considering that Carley would also know this, I'd be a little hesitant to date a convicted felon who killed his spouse for cheating on him.
I'd rather Carley wouldn't end up being a female Kenny, as one 'hates you for not agreeing with them' character archetype is enough. I'd imagine that Carley would look pretty detestable if she didn't help the man who refused her advances.
I can see Carley and Christa getting along, but considering that Christa and Lilly have similar natures, I'd imagine that the two would bicker more often than not.
I'd prefer that Carley dies in a different manner than Doug's in both scenarios, as their deaths happening in the exact same manner would end up losing their individual impact and make the event look rather lazy in comparison. If it were me, I'd have Carley killed in a manner that catches you off guard, just as how her second death had in the original.
Mark (and David/Travis)
I wouldn't mind knowing a bit more from David/Travis, as it would help give Ben someone familiar to rely on. Making David/Travis the one to be cut up would make the famous 'I probably WOULD be food by now' line a red herring, but it could still work.
I like the idea of Mark having a neutral stance towards whether it was necessary for Kenny to kill Larry in the meat locker, while letting Kenny know that he doesn't approve with his actions. His decision to tell Kenny off for abandoning Lee for not assisting him in Larry's death is also necessary, as it means that there would be an eyewitness account for what happened during the scavenger hunt.
I'm not sure why Mark is considered a determinant, but I like the idea of expanding his role more instead of appearing as a one-episode character.
I feel even more sorry for Lilly in this new scenario. Having been abandoned by the group who she worked hard to support and provide for must feel like a massive betrayal from her point of view, especially when one of them had killed her father in a desperate attempt to stop him from reanimating. Having Mark with her would probably be the only good outcome, considering that she would at least have someone by her side.
More to come soon. Telltale's favorite word: soon.
Well it took many weeks in note form on my phone before putting it on here. I just felt like i wanted to share my ideas on what i think the games needed that would/could have been better including
I'd rather Carley wouldn't end up being a female Kenny, as one 'hates you for not agreeing with them'
I actually meant it in a way where she acts a tad negative to you but not to the extent of hate. I thought it would be interesting to show another side to her personality but i see what you are saying.
I'm not sure why Mark is considered a determinant, but I like the idea of expanding his role more instead of appearing as a one-episode character.
Well he's considered in the "deceased" section as my thread was for characters that are deceased, determinant or unknown statuses. Sorry i should have made it clearer in my original post.
I feel even more sorry for Lilly in this new scenario. Having been abandoned by the group who she worked hard to support and provide for must feel like a massive betrayal from her point of view, especially when one of them had killed her father in a desperate attempt to stop him from reanimating. Having Mark with her would probably be the only good outcome, considering that she would at least have someone by her side.
As i said previously regarding Jane, i didn't choose to write her character out of the picture because of dislike for the character but more so because i found her exit fitting, which is the same as with Lilly except that i wrote her exit slightly earlier than normal and the reason was because of the fact Carley/Doug live longer in my version lol. Again not out of hate for the character or anything. Same with Mark.
Right, since you asked for my opinion, I'll share my thoughts below:
Season 1
Doug (if chosen over Carley)
* I can somewhat see D… moreoug being Lee's 'right hand man' after Episode 3, but Kenny would fill the role more than Doug would in terms of personality and willingness for pragmatic decisions. I think that Doug is more likely to be an 'adviser' type, as he known to use his brain than brawn to help his group, such as the bell system to warn everyone of strangers approaching them in Episode 2.
* I'm not sure if Doug would be the kind of person to share bonds with others, as I always got the impression that he keeps to himself, but I could see Doug getting along with Omid somewhat.
* I agree that Ben taking the hatchet from the door was stupid even for him, and I prefer that the door would break open regardless.
* Doug's death in Crawford is a nice callback to how he dies saving someone, an act that most wouldn't assume that … [view original content]
One thing to add to the Carley being taken by the Stranger. I think when we find the Stranger in Episode 5, this should happen.
Doug (if you teach Doug to shoot for the head during his gun lesson):
The Stranger has a bandage around part of his head, remarking how Lee taught him well and reciting his lesson to aim for the head - it is later revealed Clementine told him about Lee teaching her/Doug how to shoot.
Carley (if you saved her):
The Stranger has a bandage around his shoulder, remarking how Carley had a good aim managing to shoot him as he was trying to take Clementine away.
This is just because Carley is a good shooter and it would show our gun lesson with Doug did have some more determinant impact.
That's good! I like it. Showing the Stranger with a determinant injury depending how you taught Doug on the train is interesting. Carley having already learnt how to use a gun would probably injure him the same way each time though in the shoulder or something like you said.
Awesome stuff by the way!
One thing to add to the Carley being taken by the Stranger. I think when we find the Stranger in Episode 5, thi… mores should happen.
Doug (if you teach Doug to shoot for the head during his gun lesson):
* The Stranger has a bandage around part of his head, remarking how Lee taught him well and reciting his lesson to aim for the head - it is later revealed Clementine told him about Lee teaching her/Doug how to shoot.
Carley (if you saved her):
* The Stranger has a bandage around his shoulder, remarking how Carley had a good aim managing to shoot him as he was trying to take Clementine away.
This is just because Carley is a good shooter and it would show our gun lesson with Doug did have some more determinant impact.
In response to Doug's role in Season 1, I personally believe that it would've been an interesting dynamic if you could romance Doug if you end up saving him, just like how you can romance Carley if you saved her. Maybe he can have some more speaking parts as well, giving him more an important role. I honestly love both of them, but I feel that if Doug had a more important role, the ratio of people who chose Carley over him would be less of a landslide.
In response to Doug's role in Season 1, I personally believe that it would've been an interesting dynamic if you could romance Doug if you e… morend up saving him, just like how you can romance Carley if you saved her. Maybe he can have some more speaking parts as well, giving him more an important role. I honestly love both of them, but I feel that if Doug had a more important role, the ratio of people who chose Carley over him would be less of a landslide.
You are brilliant. That would be greater than the actual game. But, there are a lots of stuff to consider in the process of making the game. Perhaps the budget weren't enough, idk.
But, I want to ask you something.
I noticed Luke and Sarah stay with AJ. In this context, Kenny weren't attached to the baby? Cuz if it were the Kenny from the actual season, he wouldn't leave him behind. Perhaps not even Christa in this context.
And what about Chuck? The train guy from the 1st season? I'm curious if you would make any change about his storyline.
This isn't fully related to your original post (and is sort of more like a dumb rant), but I'm a bit hesitant agree with the "that would be better than what we got" posts
Don't get me wrong here, I'm not bashing your ideas or anything by saying that. It's just that saying "this would be better than what we got" is easier said than done, you know? You can have something very solid on paper, but that doesn't always mean it will translate well to the actual product. It's a more complex process than just taking everything you wrote and shoving it into the game. There's a chance that certain things won't work in practice, no matter how good they sound. There's a lot of things you have to take into consideration when it comes to game development.
A fun fact is that most things that end up getting cut are not cut because someone didn't like it and decided to toss the idea out, but rather because they simply didn't work in some way, shape, or form. That could be at a mechanical level, a technical level, a functional level, whatever. If anyone remembers, Starved For Help was originally intended to be a pretty ambitious episode in terms of choices. They were planning a lot of different choice paths and outcomes for that episode, starting to form a relatively complex web. But by the time the episode released, a grand majority of that was cut. And the reason it was cut is quite simple; it just didn't mesh with the game they were trying to make, and/or the story they were trying to tell. Ambition is a great trait, but it's possible to be too ambitious; to put too much strain on things, if not yourself.
But going back to what I was saying; while a lot of Dan's ideas are fantastic, you really have to ask if they would work in the game, for a variety of reasons. You still have all the additional work that goes into creating a working scene, much more than the writing alone accomplishes. Look, there's no doubt that the strength of TWD comes from it's narrative and writing, but that writing alone doesn't carry the game. Everything else; directing, cinematography, choreography, sound design, set/environment design, the interactive elements, gameplay mechanics, player involvement, and so on... all of those play an integral role in making the game and all the fantastic scenes in it as great as they are. Just about every great scene that you can point to is great not because of the writing alone, but because of the sum of all the aforementioned processes working together. You get what I'm saying? While you might be able to write what sounds like a fantastic synopsis for an episode on paper, it's a whole different ballgame actually making the scene come to life.
The only changes I would have made, would have been that Lee should not have died at the end of season 1. And that Kenny should not have become determinant at the end of season 2.
I noticed Luke and Sarah stay with AJ. In this context, Kenny weren't attached to the baby? Cuz if it were the Kenny from the actual season, he wouldn't leave him behind. Perhaps not even Christa in this context.
I tried to make Kenny less of the villain that the original game tried to make him out to be which included his protectiveness of AJ. Kenny would want what is best for AJ and Sarah and Clem if she decided to go with Luke, Sarah and AJ.
And what about Chuck? The train guy from the 1st season? I'm curious if you would make any change about his storyline.
I did think about what i could change about Chuck but decided he would be one of the characters i didn't change for now but by all means if you can think up a decent idea as to what changes Chuck's character could have i'd love to see you share your ideas here too! Thanks for reading my post, i appreciate the time it took you
You are brilliant. That would be greater than the actual game. But, there are a lots of stuff to consider in the process of making the game.… more Perhaps the budget weren't enough, idk.
But, I want to ask you something.
I noticed Luke and Sarah stay with AJ. In this context, Kenny weren't attached to the baby? Cuz if it were the Kenny from the actual season, he wouldn't leave him behind. Perhaps not even Christa in this context.
And what about Chuck? The train guy from the 1st season? I'm curious if you would make any change about his storyline.
Cool man. I didn't think as deeply as you about the aspect of how the game would be with paper to screen lol but thank you for your reply. Appreciate it
This isn't fully related to your original post (and is sort of more like a dumb rant), but I'm a bit hesitant agree with the "that would be … morebetter than what we got" posts
Don't get me wrong here, I'm not bashing your ideas or anything by saying that. It's just that saying "this would be better than what we got" is easier said than done, you know? You can have something very solid on paper, but that doesn't always mean it will translate well to the actual product. It's a more complex process than just taking everything you wrote and shoving it into the game. There's a chance that certain things won't work in practice, no matter how good they sound. There's a lot of things you have to take into consideration when it comes to game development.
A fun fact is that most things that end up getting cut are not cut because someone didn't like it and decided to toss the idea out, but rather because they simply didn't work in some way, shape, or f… [view original content]
The episode continues with Mike's betrayal. Clem has the choice to shoot him. If she does, Sarah is seen trying to aid Clem while panicking. Shel and Bonnie escape. If she doesn't shoot Mike, Mike grabs Sarah and they both escape with Shel and Bonnie. Clem's shot, dream sequence, Kenny and Jane argue, Christa sides with the Wellington plan, Sarah is scared shitless (if she's there).
Forgive me if this was addressed but what is the purpose of having Mike kidnap Sarah if he isn't shot other than the give a reason why he gets away? Is this meant to be a sequel hook or a downer ending?
Those are some really good ideas, Dan. I specially liked the storyline you gave to Omid and Christa.
If you want my input tho, here's wha… moret I would change.
* I think that you gave Lilly and Mark a kinda underwhelming conclusion. I would have both her and Mark make it to the RV and the usual 'Lilly blaming everyone' scene would play out as normal, but when Lilly's about to shoot Carley/Doug (Lilly would also think that he stole supplies) Mark would try to save them and get shot instead. The letting her in or leaving her choice would play out as usual. I think that murdering someone without any actual evidence was something crucial to demonstrate Lilly's state of paranoia after her father's death. If she's left at the Motor In this would never be explored.
* Although many may disagree, I liked Kenny vs Jane in No Going Back. It's been 2 years and we're still talking about it! This is how I'd keep that conflict while also trying to remov… [view original content]
Comments
Thank you. I look forward to your feedback good or bad
Congratulations. That's called dedication.
Thanks for that
I thought you said that Glen was the only season1 character left, so I said he was dead. Read the post again and realised you said Clem so I quickly deleted it
A sign I shouldn't stay up past 1am.
Ahh i see! You from the UK as well? Because it was 1am when i saw your re-posted post lol.
Yeah. UK born and bred.
I have nothing else to say to your post, Dan. Perfect.
Thanks Vaxij appreciate it. Hopefully others will soon share their ideas here too
Not bad Dan, whereas I would've instituted a scorch earth policy for No Going Back, you've found a way (somehow) to make it a much more palatable and intriguing episode.
I still would've left Christa's fate unknown for the audience after the raider attack and of course would've wiped Kenny entirely from the season. You may have marginally improved his development and the final choice is much more concise than the rubbish we were originally fed, I can't help but feel you made his agency too powerful, whereas Clementine, again, is left to watch helplessly as more "callbacks" are made.
Personally, I would've never introduced Carver until much later, giving his ferocity time to feel more impactful once he is introduced.
Other than that, you should've left Sam (the dog) in because dogs are fucking rad. That's all really.
Any particular reason why? I felt that Christa and Omid were terribly wasted in season 2 and having them both involved as long as they were suited me perfectly if that was how they made the game with my idea. However, i think in story matters definitely some characters fates would be left better unknown if it suited the situation like Lilly or Molly for example.
Yeah but that's because of your hate for him which in my opinion is ridiculous that you wouldn't include him simply for not liking him because characters we hate can be used to an advantage, giving us more to talk about etc and his involvement in season 2 (again my opinion) was very much welcomed and made the story a damn sight more interesting than the majority of the written season 2 characters. There would be hardly anything interesting to talk about if he wasn't ever included in the game and you know it. Look at all the debates the last 2 years? Love him or hate him, Telltale created a masterpiece that has divided fans more than any other game character i know ever could. Anyway, including characters we don't like can also have positives in the sense depending on what someone writes, they can redeem his character, or as i have tried to change is make him less aggressive and villanous as they made him out to be in season 2 which a lot of people didn't like. I deliberately steered away from having the spotlight on him because I know hateful people (on his character like yourself) would still criticise him even if he did something so kind and humane because you can't let go or forgive his past actions. But anyway, my post was never to cause an argument but you push my buttons whenever Kenny is mentioned. No offence intended by the way. I think we should leave it at that.
Please explain what you mean here? Made his agency too powerful? Clem is left to watch helplessly? Callbacks are made??
Absolutely.
Christa and Omid's fate I found was done extraordinarily well done considering what All That Remains was meant to show was seclusion and isolation, making Clementine feel much more vulnerable and helpless. A bitter way to shoe away the last remnants of family Clem had left, stripping her of her power. One of the reasons ATR was my second favorite episode save No Time Left was for that very reason. One of the reasons bringing Kenny back didn't fit the mold the season was building up to.
We were as Clementine left to fend for herself, within human power off course. None of the jumping Carver from a Riddick-esque takedown or her fighting off hordes of walkers single-handedly. Omid's death was unfair, but that's the entire point. and her and Christa's relationship seemingly being much more distant was a very intriguing development step in the right direction before she was separated and left in a perpetually unknown status.
With Kenny making his way back into the season, it disrupted the kind of cold almost bitter Clementine the season was building in favor for her to strike loyalties almost within a few hours rather than naturally progressing an organic friendship with Luke and company through interesting conversations and situations.
And by the whole "call-back" comment. I honestly would've been pretty uncomfortable with Kenny having had such a similarly done killing, almost as if it were meant to be some tongue-in-cheek call-back to season one. I understand it's supposed to be re-incorporating a scenario, but I would've opted for a less predictable death honestly. Maybe instead of Kenny taking the final strike, Carver could've been left to an oncoming heard or Clem could've spoiled her innocence further by finishing him. It just seems like he's always made to be the one to end any given fight he's in and I find it to taint the suspense.
I've never really had many thoughts around season 1, but I imagine if I wanted to write up all my wants for season 2 I would end up rewriting it entirely.
I felt like there was a waste of character potantial in the last episodes of season 2, Nick and Sarah in particular (as most fans seem to agree). I am not especially attached to Luke, but Jane as the main opposition to Kenny came a bit out of the blue for me to really find her death that horrific. If they had started to build the relationship with her from the start of episode 3 instead of the end of it, and had not made off with all the other characters I could have imagined a more conflicting finale for me.
This is great, I love the dedication and kept on reading. I love how you developed most of the characters. I was still expecting Eddie or Nate to show up in the story especially since Eddie was the silhouette in episode 4.
I see things from your point of view on the fates of Omid and Christa after reading that. I guess that with me, i feel their characters could have been developed further and have more input in the season 2 story which is why i felt keeping them alive/lasting longer would be a benefit. Plus i think season 2 needed their appearance in the game. I whenever i watch a tv show or play a game series like this, i'm one of these people who gets attached to characters that have been around for a while and the longer they last the more i like them. Omid and Christa were great and whilst i see it from your point of view on All That Remains having a sense of isolation to do with Clem, i still couldn't just let those characters exit the series after only the first 10-15 mins of the season.
Oh i see now sorry, yeah that part lol! I knew it wasn't going to be popular and i guess i wrote that merely for amusement purporses given that Carver had a gruesome death coming and that it was a deliberate throwback to season 1 almost as if it was taking the piss. Ahh i dunno, there are many ways Carver could have met his end, your idea included was good, maybe a Ramsey Bolton death? Lol. I guess i'll leave it up to anyone's imagination. Thanks for the reply
Of course.
I too liked Omid and especially Christa being in my top 5 of all of them. I just felt her departure hit such a great mark for the tone the episode was striving for.
But to each their own in the regard of if her and Omid's treatment was warranted.
Thank you Sparkeagle
Still waiting for @RichWalk23 and @Flog61 and @KCohere to reply or comment but i guess they probably won't lol
It's not that I don't want to read your post, it's quite a lot of content to look into and then coming up with a response.
Once I get around to it, I'll make a post.
What happened to your beautiful Elena profile picture? Ahhh Elena - drools lol
Elena will always live on in my heart, just getting to be that time.
Besides, I find my new pic to be very... inspiring.
How do you add your own picture? I ask because in all the years I've been on these forums i have never bothered changing mine?
Thanks i'd appreciate that
You have to set up a Gravatar account.
From your profile settings where the listing for the pre-set avatars are, you can select the last one on the docket (the far right I believe) and from there, you should get a link to Gravatar. Set up an account (it's relatively easy, just an email and select a password I think is about all it asks).
The final step is selecting your pic, all you do is go to the top left corner and it'll give you an option to set a new picture which you can do either from your documents, or from images straight from Google or other search engines.
And that's about it, you can crop the images to your liking and select a rating (always select G though, otherwise it'll lock the image out of this particular site. hence why my image is of Sarita with 7 inches of steel through her skull).
And that's all there is, just select the image after and confirm and you're golden.
Thank you!
Right, since you asked for my opinion, I'll share my thoughts below:
Season 1
Doug (if chosen over Carley)
I can somewhat see Doug being Lee's 'right hand man' after Episode 3, but Kenny would fill the role more than Doug would in terms of personality and willingness for pragmatic decisions. I think that Doug is more likely to be an 'adviser' type, as he known to use his brain than brawn to help his group, such as the bell system to warn everyone of strangers approaching them in Episode 2.
I'm not sure if Doug would be the kind of person to share bonds with others, as I always got the impression that he keeps to himself, but I could see Doug getting along with Omid somewhat.
I agree that Ben taking the hatchet from the door was stupid even for him, and I prefer that the door would break open regardless.
Doug's death in Crawford is a nice callback to how he dies saving someone, an act that most wouldn't assume that Doug would be capable of. I'm not sure if I prefer his alternate death on the exact same episode, but it does make sense that with Doug staying behind in the house, he would be killed for trying to stop the Stranger from kidnapping Clementine.
Carley (if chosen over Doug)
Though I like the idea of having a romance option with Carley, I'm a little iffy due to the rumors that Lee may have also killed his wife in a rage. Considering that Carley would also know this, I'd be a little hesitant to date a convicted felon who killed his spouse for cheating on him.
I'd rather Carley wouldn't end up being a female Kenny, as one 'hates you for not agreeing with them' character archetype is enough. I'd imagine that Carley would look pretty detestable if she didn't help the man who refused her advances.
I can see Carley and Christa getting along, but considering that Christa and Lilly have similar natures, I'd imagine that the two would bicker more often than not.
I'd prefer that Carley dies in a different manner than Doug's in both scenarios, as their deaths happening in the exact same manner would end up losing their individual impact and make the event look rather lazy in comparison. If it were me, I'd have Carley killed in a manner that catches you off guard, just as how her second death had in the original.
Mark (and David/Travis)
I wouldn't mind knowing a bit more from David/Travis, as it would help give Ben someone familiar to rely on. Making David/Travis the one to be cut up would make the famous 'I probably WOULD be food by now' line a red herring, but it could still work.
I like the idea of Mark having a neutral stance towards whether it was necessary for Kenny to kill Larry in the meat locker, while letting Kenny know that he doesn't approve with his actions. His decision to tell Kenny off for abandoning Lee for not assisting him in Larry's death is also necessary, as it means that there would be an eyewitness account for what happened during the scavenger hunt.
I'm not sure why Mark is considered a determinant, but I like the idea of expanding his role more instead of appearing as a one-episode character.
I feel even more sorry for Lilly in this new scenario. Having been abandoned by the group who she worked hard to support and provide for must feel like a massive betrayal from her point of view, especially when one of them had killed her father in a desperate attempt to stop him from reanimating. Having Mark with her would probably be the only good outcome, considering that she would at least have someone by her side.
More to come soon. Telltale's favorite word: soon.
It's just barmy how you managed to write that :P, but anyways - very interesting.
Well it took many weeks in note form on my phone before putting it on here. I just felt like i wanted to share my ideas on what i think the games needed that would/could have been better including
Again, anyone please feel free to add your own ideas or changes. Be interested to read
Thank you @RichWalk23
I actually meant it in a way where she acts a tad negative to you but not to the extent of hate. I thought it would be interesting to show another side to her personality but i see what you are saying.
Well he's considered in the "deceased" section as my thread was for characters that are deceased, determinant or unknown statuses. Sorry i should have made it clearer in my original post.
As i said previously regarding Jane, i didn't choose to write her character out of the picture because of dislike for the character but more so because i found her exit fitting, which is the same as with Lilly except that i wrote her exit slightly earlier than normal and the reason was because of the fact Carley/Doug live longer in my version lol. Again not out of hate for the character or anything. Same with Mark.
Awesome stuff by the way!
One thing to add to the Carley being taken by the Stranger. I think when we find the Stranger in Episode 5, this should happen.
Doug (if you teach Doug to shoot for the head during his gun lesson):
Carley (if you saved her):
This is just because Carley is a good shooter and it would show our gun lesson with Doug did have some more determinant impact.
That's good! I like it. Showing the Stranger with a determinant injury depending how you taught Doug on the train is interesting. Carley having already learnt how to use a gun would probably injure him the same way each time though in the shoulder or something like you said.
In response to Doug's role in Season 1, I personally believe that it would've been an interesting dynamic if you could romance Doug if you end up saving him, just like how you can romance Carley if you saved her. Maybe he can have some more speaking parts as well, giving him more an important role. I honestly love both of them, but I feel that if Doug had a more important role, the ratio of people who chose Carley over him would be less of a landslide.
Nick and Mike would survive the entire series.
Thanks for your response
You are brilliant. That would be greater than the actual game. But, there are a lots of stuff to consider in the process of making the game. Perhaps the budget weren't enough, idk.
But, I want to ask you something.
I noticed Luke and Sarah stay with AJ. In this context, Kenny weren't attached to the baby? Cuz if it were the Kenny from the actual season, he wouldn't leave him behind. Perhaps not even Christa in this context.
And what about Chuck? The train guy from the 1st season? I'm curious if you would make any change about his storyline.
This isn't fully related to your original post (and is sort of more like a dumb rant), but I'm a bit hesitant agree with the "that would be better than what we got" posts
Don't get me wrong here, I'm not bashing your ideas or anything by saying that. It's just that saying "this would be better than what we got" is easier said than done, you know? You can have something very solid on paper, but that doesn't always mean it will translate well to the actual product. It's a more complex process than just taking everything you wrote and shoving it into the game. There's a chance that certain things won't work in practice, no matter how good they sound. There's a lot of things you have to take into consideration when it comes to game development.
A fun fact is that most things that end up getting cut are not cut because someone didn't like it and decided to toss the idea out, but rather because they simply didn't work in some way, shape, or form. That could be at a mechanical level, a technical level, a functional level, whatever. If anyone remembers, Starved For Help was originally intended to be a pretty ambitious episode in terms of choices. They were planning a lot of different choice paths and outcomes for that episode, starting to form a relatively complex web. But by the time the episode released, a grand majority of that was cut. And the reason it was cut is quite simple; it just didn't mesh with the game they were trying to make, and/or the story they were trying to tell. Ambition is a great trait, but it's possible to be too ambitious; to put too much strain on things, if not yourself.
But going back to what I was saying; while a lot of Dan's ideas are fantastic, you really have to ask if they would work in the game, for a variety of reasons. You still have all the additional work that goes into creating a working scene, much more than the writing alone accomplishes. Look, there's no doubt that the strength of TWD comes from it's narrative and writing, but that writing alone doesn't carry the game. Everything else; directing, cinematography, choreography, sound design, set/environment design, the interactive elements, gameplay mechanics, player involvement, and so on... all of those play an integral role in making the game and all the fantastic scenes in it as great as they are. Just about every great scene that you can point to is great not because of the writing alone, but because of the sum of all the aforementioned processes working together. You get what I'm saying? While you might be able to write what sounds like a fantastic synopsis for an episode on paper, it's a whole different ballgame actually making the scene come to life.
The only changes I would have made, would have been that Lee should not have died at the end of season 1. And that Kenny should not have become determinant at the end of season 2.
I tried to make Kenny less of the villain that the original game tried to make him out to be which included his protectiveness of AJ. Kenny would want what is best for AJ and Sarah and Clem if she decided to go with Luke, Sarah and AJ.
I did think about what i could change about Chuck but decided he would be one of the characters i didn't change for now but by all means if you can think up a decent idea as to what changes Chuck's character could have i'd love to see you share your ideas here too! Thanks for reading my post, i appreciate the time it took you
@Deltino
Cool man. I didn't think as deeply as you about the aspect of how the game would be with paper to screen lol but thank you for your reply. Appreciate it
Forgive me if this was addressed but what is the purpose of having Mike kidnap Sarah if he isn't shot other than the give a reason why he gets away? Is this meant to be a sequel hook or a downer ending?