Well, that sounds like a considerate addition! ...Until you remember that the game saves in checkpoints/chapters in the first place.
Even then, what does character development have to do with time constraints?What, is walking around hubs and * gasp * talking to characters you want to know more about too time consuming?
I fail to see how that explains why the episodes themselves(particularly 3) feel a little bare at times.
Telltale wanted the fans to be able to finish the episodes in one siting. The thing is, if a game is well done, I find it easy to sit throu… moregh a 2 1/2 or 3 hour episode. I think many agree with this as well. Besides, there is a pause option so I don't see why they need to be closer to only 90 minutes.
Okay, because I've been looking through older threads for context, ideas, and other useful stuff and some of that stuff is a bit mind boggling given our main character.
Well, I don't care about Wyatt or Eddie too much (not saying I didn't like them), but I'm guessing it's because they were fairly likable and entraining characters, and similar to most of the 400 days cast, people thought they could've had a lot more potential to make an impact. Same goes for Nate, really.
Well, that sounds like a considerate addition! ...Until you remember that the game saves in checkpoints/chapters in the first place.
Even… more then, what does character development have to do with time constraints?What, is walking around hubs and * gasp * talking to characters you want to know more about too time consuming?
I fail to see how that explains why the episodes themselves(particularly 3) feel a little bare at times.
Job J kept making little teaser tweets that mention Pizza or ice cream:
There were numerous threads trying to figure out what the piz… moreza and ice cream was. Some thought the icecream was wellington and the pizza was a different place. The main theory was that it was Kenny and Luke. We thought we would have to choose between the two.
Boy, were we wrong.
Well, I don't care about Wyatt or Eddie too much (not saying I didn't like them), but I'm guessing it's because they were fairly likable and… more entraining characters, and similar to most of the 400 days cast, people thought they could've had a lot more potential to make an impact. Same goes for Nate, really.
Job J kept making little teaser tweets that mention Pizza or ice cream:
There were numerous threads trying to figure out what the piz… moreza and ice cream was. Some thought the icecream was wellington and the pizza was a different place. The main theory was that it was Kenny and Luke. We thought we would have to choose between the two.
Boy, were we wrong.
Whatever. The title card shows Clementine putting on her war paint of possible blood, so I assumed she would be leading the group into some sort of confrontation with an enemy, whether it be Carver, Buricko, Becca, or whoever threatens the Howe's Ski Cabin Group.
I presume it's just for the novelty of simply seeing them again. Because I never saw either of them(or a few other requested returning) as bringing anything useful, interesting, or even relevant to Clementine's story, which is something Bonnie, Becca, and Taavia(at least as of Season 2) had going for them.'
"Oh look, Javier, it's this screw-up junkie and some wild trucker I've never seen before. I think their both on our side, for some reason."
"How random."
It would be like bringing back Kenny again except worse.
presume it's just for the novelty of simply seeing them again. Because I never saw either of them(or a few other requested returning) as bringing anything useful, interesting, or even relevant to Clementine's story, which is something Bonnie, Becca, and Taavia(at least as of Season 2) had going for them.'
Neither did I, to be honest, excluding Nate, but a good few do seem to like the "screw-up junkie", Eddie and really want to see him again. Personally, I found him likable, but I don't believe he had enough for me to want to see him return. But opinions tend to be quite different, such as how someone might find one character uninteresting, but for another, he/she could very well their favourite.
There's also the facture that a lot of people, I'd imagine, would prefer to have some familiar faces in whatever group is brought about in S3, instead of just having all new characters, and if it were to be anyone, most would pick whatever character they liked in the past. Similar to how I'd like Nate to return, as I definitely think a character like that can be explored in a deeper level, whilst others may want as you mentioned, Tavia.
I presume it's just for the novelty of simply seeing them again. Because I never saw either of them(or a few other requested returning) as b… moreringing anything useful, interesting, or even relevant to Clementine's story, which is something Bonnie, Becca, and Taavia(at least as of Season 2) had going for them.'
"Oh look, Javier, it's this screw-up junkie and some wild trucker I've never seen before. I think their both on our side, for some reason."
"How random."
It would be like bringing back Kenny again except worse.
There's also the facture that a lot of people, I'd imagine, would prefer to have some familiar faces in whatever group is brought about in S3, instead of just having all new characters, and if it were to be anyone, most would pick whatever character they liked in the past.
Oh, I very much get that point! It's just that there would need to be an actual plot/tone purpose to having that return other than "Ooh, people liked this character--just throw them in!" Hence the comparison to Kenny, who love em or hate em, got so much unnecessary focus in Season 2 that it comparatively downplayed the original story and eclipsed the other main characters, including Clementine herself.
An example I half of half-jokingly suggested for Season 3 is "Sarah," a character who I think had a best executed arc in Season 2 up until the last few scenes of Amid the Ruins. Bringing "her" back would serve a purpose that I think Season 2 really should have remembered to highlight and take advantage of, but I also realize that having "her" return would have a few caveats to it..
Similar to how I'd like Nate to return, as I definitely think a character like that can be explored in a deeper level, whilst others may want as you mentioned, Tavia.
Well, I agree that Nate is definitely a character who could potentially be used for some development, but he's still bound by a few conditions that make the other characters so unlikely, just not as much.
presume it's just for the novelty of simply seeing them again. Because I never saw either of them(or a few other requested returning) as bri… morenging anything useful, interesting, or even relevant to Clementine's story, which is something Bonnie, Becca, and Taavia(at least as of Season 2) had going for them.'
Neither did I, to be honest, excluding Nate, but a good few do seem to like the "screw-up junkie", Eddie and really want to see him again. Personally, I found him likable, but I don't believe he had enough for me to want to see him return. But opinions tend to be quite different, such as how someone might find one character uninteresting, but for another, he/she could very well their favourite.
There's also the facture that a lot of people, I'd imagine, would prefer to have some familiar faces in whatever group is brought about in S3, instead of just having all new characters, and if it were to be anyone, most would pick whatever … [view original content]
Well, a full list of every single character is just an unlikely end goal. Howhard is it to say that Clementine was shorter than Duck, than Omid, than Sarah, than Luke, than Nick, etc.? I know for a fact that I saw someone mention comparing the character heights at some point, with Nick being taller than Luke being the example they gave.
Oh, I very much get that point! It's just that there would need to be an actual plot/tone purpose to having that return other than "Ooh, people liked this character--just throw them in!" Hence the comparison to Kenny, who love em or hate em, got so much unnecessary focus in Season 2 that it comparatively downplayed the original story and eclipsed the other main characters, including Clementine herself.
Personally, I found it a wise choice that Telltale had Kenny take centre stage. To me, he was the only character who had enough characterisation and development to actually make the game somewhat engaging because before his arrival, it was a pure bore and the Cabin Group were more or less the same. They, unlike a lot of the characters seen from S1, never stood out and were instead just a bland bunch of one-dimensionals, who'd only go on to get killed for shock value. If Telltale had spend more time creating decent characters within the group, then they wouldn't have needed to bring Ken back, but because of the likes of Carlos, Rebecca, Alvin, and Luke, he was, in my opinion, very much needed to give the game some life. And let's be real, as popular as Clementine is, she isn't really the most interesting of characters to really hold a game, which could be in part, because of her age.
I agree, though, with everything else you said. A character should only be brought back if the writers actually have a clear purpose in mind for them and have an idea as to how they might want to explore/develop said character, whoever it may be.
An example I half of half-jokingly suggested for Season 3 is "Sarah," a character who I think had a best executed arc in Season 2 up until the last few scenes of Amid the Ruins. Bringing "her" back would serve a purpose that I think Season 2 really should have remembered to highlight and take advantage of, but I also realize that having "her" return would have a few caveats to it..
Fair enough. I, myself, wasn't really a fan of Sarah. Not saying she wasn't a good character, but I found her to be a tiny bit on the downright annoying side...
Well, I agree that Nate is definitely a character who could potentially be used for some development, but he's still bound by a few conditions that make the other characters so unlikely, just not as much.
Yeah, probably. If I were to take a guess at what Telltale will do, I doubt they'll bring anybody back, to be honest, especially anyone from Season 1. It would probably come across a bit too similar to season 2 with Kenny's return, though I do hope I'm wrong because I'd love to see Lilly return as well.
There's also the facture that a lot of people, I'd imagine, would prefer to have some familiar faces in whatever group is brought about in S… more3, instead of just having all new characters, and if it were to be anyone, most would pick whatever character they liked in the past.
Oh, I very much get that point! It's just that there would need to be an actual plot/tone purpose to having that return other than "Ooh, people liked this character--just throw them in!" Hence the comparison to Kenny, who love em or hate em, got so much unnecessary focus in Season 2 that it comparatively downplayed the original story and eclipsed the other main characters, including Clementine herself.
An example I half of half-jokingly suggested for Season 3 is "Sarah," a character who I think had a best executed arc in Season 2 up until the last few scenes of Amid the Ruins. Bringing "her" back would serve a purpose that I think Season 2 really should have reme… [view original content]
Personally, I found it a wise choice that Telltale had Kenny take centre stage. To me, he was the only character who had enough characterisation and development to actually make the game somewhat engaging because before his arrival, it was a pure bore and the Cabin Group were more or less the same. They, unlike a lot of the characters seen from S1, never stood out and were instead just a bland bunch of one-dimensionals, who'd only go on to get killed for shock value. If Telltale had spend more time creating decent characters within the group, then they wouldn't have needed to bring Ken back, but because of the likes of Carlos, Rebecca, Alvin, and Luke, he was, in my opinion, very much needed to give the game some life. And let's be real, as popular as Clementine is, she isn't really the most interesting of characters to really hold a game, which could be in part, because of her age.
[Partially Recycled Rant inbound]
Call it retroactive backlash on my part(especially since I literally played through in June) but the drastic amount of effort Kenny (and Jane) have compared to everyone else is like 4:1. There should have been more effort into telling their story while also making sure the other characters got a chance to shine.
I came into this Season relatively blind outside of a few broad expectations and vague spoilers. The general premise had Clementine as the main character, the Cabin Group as her supporting cast, and Carver is the main villain. If the characters just weren't resonating with some people, then yes that is a problem in and unto itself. However, one would expect for the characters to grow and endear as the episodes progress. A great story can contain multiple ones that we don't need to see the entirety of in order to appreciate them and can remember who the real stars of the show are.
I didn’t find out about Kenny’s survival until presumably sometime after Episode 3 and even then, the understanding I was sent off with had him also playing a supporting role as a mentor figure. While Kenny had more prominence than I assumed, episode 3 manage to stick with this arc despite missing out on several other opportunities. And then as soon as Jane is brought into the spotlight..., it's not immediate, but the Cabin Group almost gets completely forgotten by the end of the penultimate episode. That is a serious problem.
Reusing an old character should not come at the expense of developing a new set of relatively blank slates, especially if it causes your character focus roster to become so unbalanced in their favor that the protagonist themselves suffer for it. Kenny is a character from Season 1, which by association means he’s remembered for his interaction with Lee; Clementine is NOT Lee and so that connection from before is skewed as a result and his inclusion on the character roster makes room for what is essentially a retelling of his story from Season 1, with some "fanservice" and nostalgia thrown in. I was always just positively neutral about Kenny the whole time I played through the game, but as I started to notice the flaws and serious problems with the story, I've gradually been having a bitter feeling about him because his addition and sudden promotion to the main roster felt like it was just a cover up for all the development that the Cabin Group(besides Rebecca and Sarah) wasn't gonna get, and thus, cheap attempt to distract us from it but actually just ended up making it more obvious.
Fair enough. I, myself, wasn't really a fan of Sarah. Not saying she wasn't a good character, but I found her to be a tiny bit on the downright annoying side...
Yeah, that sounds like Sarah. Funny you mention that because, as I was gonna reveal in my first impressions , she, Rebecca, and Luke were some of the first characters I knew about going into Season 2 because of people's reactions to them according to TVTropes. Though she did kinda creep me out at first and she immediately raised some suspicious red flags, she holds the honor of being the only member of the Cabin Group who felt like she had somewhere to go as a character by the time the Season wrapped up, with the technical exception of Rebecca. This is because of not only Clementine's connection to her, but also because her story arc felt like it was capable of standing up on its own. And she, in my potentially biased opinion, had the most balanced screentime for development before she was just moodwhiplashingly aborted without a proper conclusion to her arc, something I think even Nick managed to cobble together.
It would probably come across a bit too similar to season 2 with Kenny's return, though I do hope I'm wrong because I'd love to see Lilly return as well.
Now THAT's an example of a character who should return! The way her story in Season 1 "ended" was very similar to Bonnie's story(which was one of the few that wasn't too oneshot to follow up on, alongside Taavia and partially Shel): Where did she go after she left the group? What has she been up to? How has she coped with everything that went wrong with her group? Those are questions just begging to be answered!
Oh, I very much get that point! It's just that there would need to be an actual plot/tone purpose to having that return other than "Ooh, peo… moreple liked this character--just throw them in!" Hence the comparison to Kenny, who love em or hate em, got so much unnecessary focus in Season 2 that it comparatively downplayed the original story and eclipsed the other main characters, including Clementine herself.
Personally, I found it a wise choice that Telltale had Kenny take centre stage. To me, he was the only character who had enough characterisation and development to actually make the game somewhat engaging because before his arrival, it was a pure bore and the Cabin Group were more or less the same. They, unlike a lot of the characters seen from S1, never stood out and were instead just a bland bunch of one-dimensionals, who'd only go on to get killed for shock value. If Telltale had spend more time creating decent characters within the … [view original content]
This would probably be better suited for another topic but just baiting hooks here:
What exactly was missing from each major Season 2 character(Cabin, Ski Lodge, Howe's Hardware, Unfinished House) that would have made them much more rounded?
Comments
Well, that sounds like a considerate addition! ...Until you remember that the game saves in checkpoints/chapters in the first place.
Even then, what does character development have to do with time constraints?What, is walking around hubs and * gasp * talking to characters you want to know more about too time consuming?
I fail to see how that explains why the episodes themselves(particularly 3) feel a little bare at times.
Okay, because I've been looking through older threads for context, ideas, and other useful stuff and some of that stuff is a bit mind boggling given our main character.
Eh...more like a place where we can discuss our thoughts on different episodes or characters as a whole retroactive thing.
Well, I don't care about Wyatt or Eddie too much (not saying I didn't like them), but I'm guessing it's because they were fairly likable and entraining characters, and similar to most of the 400 days cast, people thought they could've had a lot more potential to make an impact. Same goes for Nate, really.
I think she'd recovered from her drug addiction before the events of season 2.
Simple answer if you ask me- Telltale got lazy.
Oh, come on.
You know you want to make a new thread!
Don't cry don't cry mustn't cry.
Maybe I do, maybe I don't.
Oh, well, in that case, I haven't gotten a clue.
What are all of the character's relative] heights in order?
But in the main story?
Episode 4 was sunshine and rainbows compared to what the slide showed TBH.
Really?!
Yes, really.
Maybe it's Maybelle.
...actually, that does sound sensible now that I think about it.
Still though, I kinda wanted to see Clementine go to war.
Problem got solved this morning.
Perhaps you mean a confrontation! Because you cannot have a war if there are less than ten warriors on either side.
Whatever. The title card shows Clementine putting on her war paint of possible blood, so I assumed she would be leading the group into some sort of confrontation with an enemy, whether it be Carver, Buricko, Becca, or whoever threatens the Howe's Ski Cabin Group.
First double post...
I'd guess people want them to appear in season 3?
I presume it's just for the novelty of simply seeing them again. Because I never saw either of them(or a few other requested returning) as bringing anything useful, interesting, or even relevant to Clementine's story, which is something Bonnie, Becca, and Taavia(at least as of Season 2) had going for them.'
"Oh look, Javier, it's this screw-up junkie and some wild trucker I've never seen before. I think their both on our side, for some reason."
"How random."
It would be like bringing back Kenny again except worse.
Neither did I, to be honest, excluding Nate, but a good few do seem to like the "screw-up junkie", Eddie and really want to see him again. Personally, I found him likable, but I don't believe he had enough for me to want to see him return. But opinions tend to be quite different, such as how someone might find one character uninteresting, but for another, he/she could very well their favourite.
There's also the facture that a lot of people, I'd imagine, would prefer to have some familiar faces in whatever group is brought about in S3, instead of just having all new characters, and if it were to be anyone, most would pick whatever character they liked in the past. Similar to how I'd like Nate to return, as I definitely think a character like that can be explored in a deeper level, whilst others may want as you mentioned, Tavia.
Oh, I very much get that point! It's just that there would need to be an actual plot/tone purpose to having that return other than "Ooh, people liked this character--just throw them in!" Hence the comparison to Kenny, who love em or hate em, got so much unnecessary focus in Season 2 that it comparatively downplayed the original story and eclipsed the other main characters, including Clementine herself.
An example I half of half-jokingly suggested for Season 3 is "Sarah," a character who I think had a best executed arc in Season 2 up until the last few scenes of Amid the Ruins. Bringing "her" back would serve a purpose that I think Season 2 really should have remembered to highlight and take advantage of, but I also realize that having "her" return would have a few caveats to it..
Well, I agree that Nate is definitely a character who could potentially be used for some development, but he's still bound by a few conditions that make the other characters so unlikely, just not as much.
An actual full out list, jackass!
Don't start yo funny biz again!
Nobody has a full list.
Well, a full list of every single character is just an unlikely end goal. How hard is it to say that Clementine was shorter than Duck, than Omid, than Sarah, than Luke, than Nick, etc.? I know for a fact that I saw someone mention comparing the character heights at some point, with Nick being taller than Luke being the example they gave.
Do you think a thread about Alternative Character Interpretations would hold any water?
...Okay, that was actually pretty funny.
Would a MtG Color Wheel thread be too niche a topic? This is coming from someone who doesn't really know much about the game itself, btw.
Radishes! Lots and lots of radishes!
Personally, I found it a wise choice that Telltale had Kenny take centre stage. To me, he was the only character who had enough characterisation and development to actually make the game somewhat engaging because before his arrival, it was a pure bore and the Cabin Group were more or less the same. They, unlike a lot of the characters seen from S1, never stood out and were instead just a bland bunch of one-dimensionals, who'd only go on to get killed for shock value. If Telltale had spend more time creating decent characters within the group, then they wouldn't have needed to bring Ken back, but because of the likes of Carlos, Rebecca, Alvin, and Luke, he was, in my opinion, very much needed to give the game some life. And let's be real, as popular as Clementine is, she isn't really the most interesting of characters to really hold a game, which could be in part, because of her age.
I agree, though, with everything else you said. A character should only be brought back if the writers actually have a clear purpose in mind for them and have an idea as to how they might want to explore/develop said character, whoever it may be.
Fair enough. I, myself, wasn't really a fan of Sarah. Not saying she wasn't a good character, but I found her to be a tiny bit on the downright annoying side...
Yeah, probably. If I were to take a guess at what Telltale will do, I doubt they'll bring anybody back, to be honest, especially anyone from Season 1. It would probably come across a bit too similar to season 2 with Kenny's return, though I do hope I'm wrong because I'd love to see Lilly return as well.
I would still love myself.. uuhhhh.... I mean Lee.
[Partially Recycled Rant inbound]
Call it retroactive backlash on my part(especially since I literally played through in June) but the drastic amount of effort Kenny (and Jane) have compared to everyone else is like 4:1. There should have been more effort into telling their story while also making sure the other characters got a chance to shine.
I came into this Season relatively blind outside of a few broad expectations and vague spoilers. The general premise had Clementine as the main character, the Cabin Group as her supporting cast, and Carver is the main villain. If the characters just weren't resonating with some people, then yes that is a problem in and unto itself. However, one would expect for the characters to grow and endear as the episodes progress. A great story can contain multiple ones that we don't need to see the entirety of in order to appreciate them and can remember who the real stars of the show are.
I didn’t find out about Kenny’s survival until presumably sometime after Episode 3 and even then, the understanding I was sent off with had him also playing a supporting role as a mentor figure. While Kenny had more prominence than I assumed, episode 3 manage to stick with this arc despite missing out on several other opportunities. And then as soon as Jane is brought into the spotlight..., it's not immediate, but the Cabin Group almost gets completely forgotten by the end of the penultimate episode. That is a serious problem.
Reusing an old character should not come at the expense of developing a new set of relatively blank slates, especially if it causes your character focus roster to become so unbalanced in their favor that the protagonist themselves suffer for it. Kenny is a character from Season 1, which by association means he’s remembered for his interaction with Lee; Clementine is NOT Lee and so that connection from before is skewed as a result and his inclusion on the character roster makes room for what is essentially a retelling of his story from Season 1, with some "fanservice" and nostalgia thrown in. I was always just positively neutral about Kenny the whole time I played through the game, but as I started to notice the flaws and serious problems with the story, I've gradually been having a bitter feeling about him because his addition and sudden promotion to the main roster felt like it was just a cover up for all the development that the Cabin Group(besides Rebecca and Sarah) wasn't gonna get, and thus, cheap attempt to distract us from it but actually just ended up making it more obvious.
Yeah, that sounds like Sarah. Funny you mention that because, as I was gonna reveal in my first impressions , she, Rebecca, and Luke were some of the first characters I knew about going into Season 2 because of people's reactions to them according to TVTropes. Though she did kinda creep me out at first and she immediately raised some suspicious red flags, she holds the honor of being the only member of the Cabin Group who felt like she had somewhere to go as a character by the time the Season wrapped up, with the technical exception of Rebecca. This is because of not only Clementine's connection to her, but also because her story arc felt like it was capable of standing up on its own. And she, in my potentially biased opinion, had the most balanced screentime for development before she was just moodwhiplashingly aborted without a proper conclusion to her arc, something I think even Nick managed to cobble together.
Now THAT's an example of a character who should return! The way her story in Season 1 "ended" was very similar to Bonnie's story(which was one of the few that wasn't too oneshot to follow up on, alongside Taavia and partially Shel): Where did she go after she left the group? What has she been up to? How has she coped with everything that went wrong with her group? Those are questions just begging to be answered!
I saw some people state that Reggie wasn't attacked by a walker. Where did this train of thought come from?
I dont have the meaurements but this has been floating around on the forums:
Credit: OzzyUK
Hey Omid, Clem is catching up to you.
Thank you! This is better than I expected, but it fits the criteria!
Also, Sarah keeps perplexing me with how tall she should be.
This would probably be better suited for another topic but just baiting hooks here:
What exactly was missing from each major Season 2 character(Cabin, Ski Lodge, Howe's Hardware, Unfinished House) that would have made them much more rounded?