Awwww, how sad, an internet troll that cares so much about someone else? I'm afraid it simply doesn't work like telling people who they are. Get a life, and leave HER, CAITLYN Jenner, alone.
It's a strong opinion and one you guys obviously don't agree with. That doesn't mean that person deserves to be censored. Freedom of speech applies to everybody. The person who posted this topic should expect a variety of replies because of the nature of the subject.
Awwww, how sad, an internet troll that cares so much about someone else? I'm afraid it simply doesn't work like telling people who they are. Get a life, and leave HER, CAITLYN Jenner, alone.
I, and several others, never even put religion into consideration in terms of my original comment or my feelings toward Bruce Jenner, what I said was exactly how I feel about this nonsensical situation. I don't hate him, I just don't give a shit about what he feels to be his gender, considering that he was born a guy and, biologically speaking, is therefore a guy, what's so hard to comprehend about that? No amount of surgeries is ever going to change that. I'm probably one of the most tolerant people you will ever come across, I don't give a shit about what race you are, what religion you practice, what your sexuality is, I judge you based on how you are as a person. Like the media, you're completely overreacting to this whole fucking situation, not everyone who disagrees with you is a hate spewing Internet troll, grow the fuck up. Why should I show compassion towards him, he didn't do anything special or deserving of compassion by doing what he did. When he does something worth commending, let me know, because I'll be one of the first ones to commend him for it. I'm so sick of this whole "We can't offend anyone" PC mindset bullshit that's infecting our country, it's so fucking ridiculous. You're sad that people are bullies, that people are mean, well too fucking bad, no one's going to give a shit if they hurt your wittle feelings, so accept reality kid, because the faster you do, the easier your life will become.
People are so inconsiderate.....
OK, I get it, you're Catholic or whatever, but religion is not an excuse for hate. In fact, if you hate … moreCaitlyn because of your religion, then your religion is extremely outdated, sorry. That is no excuse to hate, put your religions of hate aside, obviously that wasn't the point of them?
Secondly, if her name is Caitlyn, say Caitlyn, not a different name. Do you just call your typical Jane a Bob? If no, then call Caitlyn her real name. Plus, it's not even you, it's her...worry about your own identity.
And don't deny her as a transgender. She is a woman, ever hear of gender dysphoria?
I am so disgusted by this community. Full of trolls and Internet bullies. Have some compassion! The world doesn't revolve around you, please be open-minded.
-
I'm not transgender, nor do I identify as whatever other genders there supposedly are, I just have empathy. Actually intersex, if you wish...but doesn't matter.
It's a strong opinion and one you guys obviously don't agree with. That doesn't mean that person deserves to be censored. Freedom of speech … moreapplies to everybody. The person who posted this topic should expect a variety of replies because of the nature of the subject.
It does affect other people when certain societal norms and even laws are changed. When people who are biologically a man or woman are allowed to use a gender specific bathroom of the opposite sex, that affects others.
I don't care for Caitlyn Jenner as a person, but I feel I must defend her here.
Yes, transitioning can be seen as selfish, but a fair amo… moreunt of necessities can be seen as selfish as well. And I would absolutely consider transitioning a necessity for transgender people.
Some people close to them will be affected negatively; that much is unavoidable. But, in the end, it's worth it, because the person who has transitioned will finally be living the life they feel they were meant to live.
Further more, I don't think it's our right to judge someone based on how they choose to live their life. (Unless they want to legitimately hurt others.)
If someone decides they no longer want to be the gender they were born as, how does that affect us?
It's their personal decision, and it should be respected.
People are so inconsiderate.....
OK, I get it, you're Catholic or whatever, but religion is not an excuse for hate. In fact, if you hate … moreCaitlyn because of your religion, then your religion is extremely outdated, sorry. That is no excuse to hate, put your religions of hate aside, obviously that wasn't the point of them?
Secondly, if her name is Caitlyn, say Caitlyn, not a different name. Do you just call your typical Jane a Bob? If no, then call Caitlyn her real name. Plus, it's not even you, it's her...worry about your own identity.
And don't deny her as a transgender. She is a woman, ever hear of gender dysphoria?
I am so disgusted by this community. Full of trolls and Internet bullies. Have some compassion! The world doesn't revolve around you, please be open-minded.
-
I'm not transgender, nor do I identify as whatever other genders there supposedly are, I just have empathy. Actually intersex, if you wish...but doesn't matter.
Why do people think people who don't support the LGBTQ community "hate" such people? I would like to see that explained just once. The term homophobia is redundant. It means "an irrational fear of". Someone who disagrees or isn't completely sold on gender changes or multiple sexuality as being natural are not necessarily afraid of anything.
Why do people think people who don't support the LGBTQ community "hate" such people? I would like to see that explained just once. The term … morehomophobia is redundant. It means "an irrational fear of". Someone who disagrees or isn't completely sold on gender changes or multiple sexuality as being natural are not necessarily afraid of anything.
If they've gone through the necessary procedures to change their body, I don't see an issue with them using the bathroom for the gender they identify as.
It does affect other people when certain societal norms and even laws are changed. When people who are biologically a man or woman are allowed to use a gender specific bathroom of the opposite sex, that affects others.
Alright, then I identify as the King of the World, and as King, I demand you give me everything you own, and because I identify as such, you have to do what I say and respect who I am, otherwise, you're discriminating against me.
See how fucking stupid that sounds? Last I checked, I'm not the King of the World just because I say I am, because the fact of the matter is, I'm not, that's not how I was born. Same goes for Bruce Jenner. Just because he says he's a girl does not make him a girl, that's not how it works.
No one here is trash talking anyone except you, you're calling us haters, trolls, and bullies because we have a different opinion than you. You need to learn the difference between calmly and respectfully discussing your opinion and hateful bashing.
It doesn't matter if they've gone through the necessary procedures, biologically speaking, they're still the gender they were born as.
Imagine a guy who identifies himself as a girl wants to use the female locker rooms in school to get changed, shower, whatever. Don't you think the other girls in the locker room would be extremely uncomfortable with that? Even if they know he identifies as a woman, he's still, technically, a guy, and thus, they would be uncomfortable changing or doing anything in the locker room when he is in there. The same thing could be said if it was a girl that identified as a guy and used the guy's locker room. As a guy, I can tell you I would be uncomfortable doing what I need to do if there was a girl in there with me, regardless of what she identifies as.
This goes back to what BonnieKenny said, it does affect other people when laws and norms are changed, we're trying to appease and satisfy one person, but in the process, making several others uncomfortable, but forcing them to accept these new standards and rules against their will. And if they don't, they are immediately labeled as intolerant or hateful.
If they've gone through the necessary procedures to change their body, I don't see an issue with them using the bathroom for the gender they identify as.
It doesn't matter if they've gone through the necessary procedures, biologically speaking, they're still the gender they were born as.
Biologically, sure. But in terms of appearance and mentality, they're the gender they identify as.
Imagine a guy who identifies himself as a girl wants to use the female locker rooms in school to get changed, shower, whatever. Don't you think the other girls in the locker room would be extremely uncomfortable with that? Even if they know he identifies as a woman, he's still, technically, a guy, and thus, they would be uncomfortable changing or doing anything in the locker room when he is in there. The same thing could be said if it was a girl that identified as a guy and used the guy's locker room. As a guy, I can tell you I would be uncomfortable doing what I need to do if there was a girl in there with me, regardless of what she identifies as.
If a transgender person hasn't fully transitioned, then I can agree that they should be required to use the bathroom for the gender they were born as, as someone could easily lie about being transgender just to get into the opposite gender's bathroom.
However, if they have transitioned and appear to be masculine/feminine enough, then I see no reason why anyone would be uncomfortable with them using a certain bathroom.
Overall, I just think it's fairly disrespectful and ignorant to refuse someone certain rights, simply because you've decided that they aren't what they say they are, when you yourself haven't gone through what they've had to deal with.
It's essentially the same thing as saying "Depression isn't real, because I've never experienced it for myself. It's all bullshit for sympathy."
It baffles me that we've come to be so accepting of homosexuality, yet people can still be so ignorant to the reality of the whole transgender situation.
It doesn't matter if they've gone through the necessary procedures, biologically speaking, they're still the gender they were born as.
Im… moreagine a guy who identifies himself as a girl wants to use the female locker rooms in school to get changed, shower, whatever. Don't you think the other girls in the locker room would be extremely uncomfortable with that? Even if they know he identifies as a woman, he's still, technically, a guy, and thus, they would be uncomfortable changing or doing anything in the locker room when he is in there. The same thing could be said if it was a girl that identified as a guy and used the guy's locker room. As a guy, I can tell you I would be uncomfortable doing what I need to do if there was a girl in there with me, regardless of what she identifies as.
This goes back to what BonnieKenny said, it does affect other people when laws and norms are changed, we're trying to appease and satisfy one person, but in t… [view original content]
He can say he's a woman all he damn wants, he can call himself Caitlyn all he wants, it doesn't change anything. He was born a guy, therefor… moree, he's a guy, end of conversation, nothing will ever be able to change that. If you think you're a chick, fine whatever, but don't expect me to treat you like one and don't expect me to give you any sort of special services because of what you "feel."
There is no such thing as 'ethically disagreeing,' it's just discrimination and hatred. It's very sad, hasn't the US already had its fair share of a rough past? Are we really documenting this in history as well?
No one said anything about religion.
I don't think we are trolls or bullies for having an opinion either. I think it's sad the world promotes a mental disorder as if it is a normality. Just my opinion, you can also think what you like, don't stop others.
People are so inconsiderate.....
OK, I get it, you're Catholic or whatever, but religion is not an excuse for hate. In fact, if you hate … moreCaitlyn because of your religion, then your religion is extremely outdated, sorry. That is no excuse to hate, put your religions of hate aside, obviously that wasn't the point of them?
Secondly, if her name is Caitlyn, say Caitlyn, not a different name. Do you just call your typical Jane a Bob? If no, then call Caitlyn her real name. Plus, it's not even you, it's her...worry about your own identity.
And don't deny her as a transgender. She is a woman, ever hear of gender dysphoria?
I am so disgusted by this community. Full of trolls and Internet bullies. Have some compassion! The world doesn't revolve around you, please be open-minded.
-
I'm not transgender, nor do I identify as whatever other genders there supposedly are, I just have empathy. Actually intersex, if you wish...but doesn't matter.
No ones spreading hate, but this thread will be locked due to you derailing it, which we all know will now lead to back and forth arguments between yourself and others.
Cheers. Why don't you discuss with people why you disagree with their views, or share your own, instead of putting the shit on the rest of us here. People have their opinions, let them share them. This is a pretty divisive issue today, and I think worthy of discusssion.
There is no such thing as 'ethically disagreeing,' it's just discrimination and hatred.
In your world, perhaps. In the real world, however, mass mutilation on the basis of a psychological disorder is something people understandingly find morally questionable.
It's very sad, hasn't the US already had its fair share of a rough past? Are we really documenting this in history as well?
Apparently, we are. History will remember how we committed child abuse on a mass scale by subjecting pre-pubescent boys and girls to hormone blockers, surgery and drugs, all because they don't fit the stereotypical mold of their gender. It's cruelty, not kindness. There is no moral virtue in this, though I'm sure you think there is.
Maybe we should take this full scale. If someone suffers from hallucinations; let's tell them they're real! Let's not medicate them, or give them therapy, that's discrimination and hatred! Oh, and if there's a paranoid schizophrenic, who thinks the walls are telling him to jump out the window, let's say he's right! It would be bigoted to do anything less.
But let's not stop there! People with phantom limbs, let's amputate them at taxpayer expenses! I mean, that's how they feel right? What about people with cotard delusion, who believe they are dead? Let's just kill them!
There is no such thing as 'ethically disagreeing,' it's just discrimination and hatred. It's very sad, hasn't the US already had its fair share of a rough past? Are we really documenting this in history as well?
OK, I get it, you're Catholic or whatever, but religion is not an excuse for hate. In fact, if you hate Caitlyn because of your religion, then your religion is extremely outdated, sorry. That is no excuse to hate, put your religions of hate aside, obviously that wasn't the point of them?
Can you share your views on anything without blaming religion? No one has even mentioned religion on this thread, until you did. Think on that.
Secondly, if her name is Caitlyn, say Caitlyn, not a different name. Do you just call your typical Jane a Bob? If no, then call Caitlyn her real name. Plus, it's not even you, it's her...worry about your own identity.
I'm sure many of them are worrying about their own identity and therefore principles, as such they do not acknowledge the credibility of Jenner's transition, thus provocatively refer to him as his former name.
And don't deny her as a transgender. She is a woman, ever hear of gender dysphoria?
Ever heard of biology, attention seeking, a phase, physiological disorders? It's important to distinguish the differences.
I am so disgusted by this community. Full of trolls and Internet bullies. Have some compassion! The world doesn't revolve around you, please be open-minded.
Your version of trolls and internet bullies, being people who disagree with your uber progressive (and scientifically void) mindset... and sometimes honesty must take precedence over compassion, for the greater good.
The world doesn't revolve around you, or celebrities like Jenner either, yet here we all are.
m not transgender, nor do I identify as whatever other genders there supposedly are, I just have empathy. Actually intersex, if you wish...but doesn't matter.
People are so inconsiderate.....
OK, I get it, you're Catholic or whatever, but religion is not an excuse for hate. In fact, if you hate … moreCaitlyn because of your religion, then your religion is extremely outdated, sorry. That is no excuse to hate, put your religions of hate aside, obviously that wasn't the point of them?
Secondly, if her name is Caitlyn, say Caitlyn, not a different name. Do you just call your typical Jane a Bob? If no, then call Caitlyn her real name. Plus, it's not even you, it's her...worry about your own identity.
And don't deny her as a transgender. She is a woman, ever hear of gender dysphoria?
I am so disgusted by this community. Full of trolls and Internet bullies. Have some compassion! The world doesn't revolve around you, please be open-minded.
-
I'm not transgender, nor do I identify as whatever other genders there supposedly are, I just have empathy. Actually intersex, if you wish...but doesn't matter.
Alright, then I identify as the King of the World, and as King, I demand you give me everything you own, and because I identify as such, you… more have to do what I say and respect who I am, otherwise, you're discriminating against me.
See how fucking stupid that sounds? Last I checked, I'm not the King of the World just because I say I am, because the fact of the matter is, I'm not, that's not how I was born. Same goes for Bruce Jenner. Just because he says he's a girl does not make him a girl, that's not how it works.
No one here is trash talking anyone except you, you're calling us haters, trolls, and bullies because we have a different opinion than you. You need to learn the difference between calmly and respectfully discussing your opinion and hateful bashing.
I think what most people are trying to say is, it's not so much that Jenner is transsexual, it's about who Jenner is as a person.
Saying you dont like Jenner just because Jenner is transsexual is stupid, just like saying gay marriage is wrong, and really any other stereotype or racist remarks. You can dislike anyone, but it shouldn't be by who they appear or identify as. If someone is transsexual and lets say robbed someone, you should dislike them because they robbed someone, not because they are transsexual. To keep it simple lets have all the examples be robbing someone. If a white person robs someone, you judge them as bad, because they stole not because they are white. If a black person robs someone, you judge them as bad, because they stole not because they are black. If a woman robs someone, you judge them as bad, because they stole not because they are a woman ect. Most reasonable people dislike a person based on who they are based on their actions. Also, most reasonable people dont care what someone does, if its not illegal or effects them in any unwanted way. If Bruce Jenner wanted to have a surgery and become Caitlyn Jenner, fine. You shouldn't care, its their choice and it doesnt harm anyone. But many people already had some sort of opinion on Jenner already, and if that person is reasonable, they dont like Jenner for that reason, not because Jenner is transsexual.
Basically what Im saying is, just because Jenner is transsexual doesnt mean everyone should just go out and support her. Past actions are still there and current actions still shape who she is. And if someone's opinion is that Jenner doesnt deserve the praise, than thats fine. If someone is saying they dont think Jenner deserves the praise because they are transsexual, than thats just shallow thinking and a lack of judgement because like I said, your opinion on someone should be based on their actions, not who or what they identify as.
So if I say that I think all Africans are from the ghetto and uneducated, I'm not being hateful?
Women shouldn't be allowed to vote. I'm … morenot being hateful?
It's the exact same thing. Discrimination=hate. There is no way to respectfully discriminate.
You're discriminating a group of people by sharing how you think they don't deserve to be who they truly are.
If I made a thread talking about how Muslims and Africans should be kicked out of the US, that is not hate? Just an opinion?
You're using the word "dislike" which is a mild form of hate which is what I was trying to get the other person to explain. They said it's being discriminatory. How is it discriminatory? Do people not realise that many people who don't support transgender, transsexual, homosexual, etc. individuals believe it is a mental or behavioral issue rather than natural? That is different than someone discriminating against someone for their skin colour, which can not be considered a "choice" in any way. I understand there are people who dislike trans or gay people only because they are trans or gay, but I don't think the people in this discussion mean that. They may see sexuality or gender identity as something people are choosing rather than accepting what is biologically natural.
I think what most people are trying to say is, it's not so much that Jenner is transsexual, it's about who Jenner is as a person.
Saying … moreyou dont like Jenner just because Jenner is transsexual is stupid, just like saying gay marriage is wrong, and really any other stereotype or racist remarks. You can dislike anyone, but it shouldn't be by who they appear or identify as. If someone is transsexual and lets say robbed someone, you should dislike them because they robbed someone, not because they are transsexual. To keep it simple lets have all the examples be robbing someone. If a white person robs someone, you judge them as bad, because they stole not because they are white. If a black person robs someone, you judge them as bad, because they stole not because they are black. If a woman robs someone, you judge them as bad, because they stole not because they are a woman ect. Most reasonable people dislike a person based on who they are based… [view original content]
Personally I feel agender because I was born intersex....I have male genitals but a female's voice, and uh, breasts...am I supposed to just pick a gender?
Sure It's not my right to judge others, people can do what they want with their bodies. I shouldn't have control over that, and I don't have control over that. But I can hold an opinion on the matter. My opinion is that Bruce had an obligation as a father, he has children. I don't believe that's fair to them. That's just my opinion. At some point in an individual's life I think they should take into account how what their doing will effect the people around them. These kids had a man they called father, and now he's prancing around in a dress. He's what, in is his 60s or 70s? He should had made this decision long ago and not had a family.
If someone decides they no longer want to be the gender they were born as, how does that affect us?
It does effect us, but it effects his children and that's my point.
It's their personal decision, and it should be respected
No it doesn't have to be respected, but it must be tolerated.
I don't care for Caitlyn Jenner as a person, but I feel I must defend her here.
Yes, transitioning can be seen as selfish, but a fair amo… moreunt of necessities can be seen as selfish as well. And I would absolutely consider transitioning a necessity for transgender people.
Some people close to them will be affected negatively; that much is unavoidable. But, in the end, it's worth it, because the person who has transitioned will finally be living the life they feel they were meant to live.
Further more, I don't think it's our right to judge someone based on how they choose to live their life. (Unless they want to legitimately hurt others.)
If someone decides they no longer want to be the gender they were born as, how does that affect us?
It's their personal decision, and it should be respected.
If anyone feels harmed by this, get a hobby. You have too much time on your hands.
Why do I get the sense you're conflating people ethically disagreeing with gender reassignment, as them feeling 'harmed' by it?
Comments
Also, mods, please lock this thread. Is this really necessary? A thread of hate? Just no, please.
So, of all the reasons people have been banned have comments like this been one of them? Because this seems like a comment that would get one banned.
Opinions = Hate.
Gotcha
It's a strong opinion and one you guys obviously don't agree with. That doesn't mean that person deserves to be censored. Freedom of speech applies to everybody. The person who posted this topic should expect a variety of replies because of the nature of the subject.
I, and several others, never even put religion into consideration in terms of my original comment or my feelings toward Bruce Jenner, what I said was exactly how I feel about this nonsensical situation. I don't hate him, I just don't give a shit about what he feels to be his gender, considering that he was born a guy and, biologically speaking, is therefore a guy, what's so hard to comprehend about that? No amount of surgeries is ever going to change that. I'm probably one of the most tolerant people you will ever come across, I don't give a shit about what race you are, what religion you practice, what your sexuality is, I judge you based on how you are as a person. Like the media, you're completely overreacting to this whole fucking situation, not everyone who disagrees with you is a hate spewing Internet troll, grow the fuck up. Why should I show compassion towards him, he didn't do anything special or deserving of compassion by doing what he did. When he does something worth commending, let me know, because I'll be one of the first ones to commend him for it. I'm so sick of this whole "We can't offend anyone" PC mindset bullshit that's infecting our country, it's so fucking ridiculous. You're sad that people are bullies, that people are mean, well too fucking bad, no one's going to give a shit if they hurt your wittle feelings, so accept reality kid, because the faster you do, the easier your life will become.
No one's spreading any hate, just people freely expressing their opinion on this matter. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make it hate.
Thank you.
It does affect other people when certain societal norms and even laws are changed. When people who are biologically a man or woman are allowed to use a gender specific bathroom of the opposite sex, that affects others.
[removed]
Why do people think people who don't support the LGBTQ community "hate" such people? I would like to see that explained just once. The term homophobia is redundant. It means "an irrational fear of". Someone who disagrees or isn't completely sold on gender changes or multiple sexuality as being natural are not necessarily afraid of anything.
So if I say that I think all Africans are from the ghetto and uneducated, I'm not being hateful?
Women shouldn't be allowed to vote. I'm not being hateful?
It's the exact same thing. Discrimination=hate. There is no way to respectfully discriminate.
Refusing to accept someone's identity and making a forum to trash talk them is not hatred? Gosh, I don't know what is then..
You're discriminating a group of people by sharing how you think they don't deserve to be who they truly are.
If I made a thread talking about how Muslims and Africans should be kicked out of the US, that is not hate? Just an opinion?
If they've gone through the necessary procedures to change their body, I don't see an issue with them using the bathroom for the gender they identify as.
Her name is legally Caitlyn.
Alright, then I identify as the King of the World, and as King, I demand you give me everything you own, and because I identify as such, you have to do what I say and respect who I am, otherwise, you're discriminating against me.
See how fucking stupid that sounds? Last I checked, I'm not the King of the World just because I say I am, because the fact of the matter is, I'm not, that's not how I was born. Same goes for Bruce Jenner. Just because he says he's a girl does not make him a girl, that's not how it works.
No one here is trash talking anyone except you, you're calling us haters, trolls, and bullies because we have a different opinion than you. You need to learn the difference between calmly and respectfully discussing your opinion and hateful bashing.
It doesn't matter if they've gone through the necessary procedures, biologically speaking, they're still the gender they were born as.
Imagine a guy who identifies himself as a girl wants to use the female locker rooms in school to get changed, shower, whatever. Don't you think the other girls in the locker room would be extremely uncomfortable with that? Even if they know he identifies as a woman, he's still, technically, a guy, and thus, they would be uncomfortable changing or doing anything in the locker room when he is in there. The same thing could be said if it was a girl that identified as a guy and used the guy's locker room. As a guy, I can tell you I would be uncomfortable doing what I need to do if there was a girl in there with me, regardless of what she identifies as.
This goes back to what BonnieKenny said, it does affect other people when laws and norms are changed, we're trying to appease and satisfy one person, but in the process, making several others uncomfortable, but forcing them to accept these new standards and rules against their will. And if they don't, they are immediately labeled as intolerant or hateful.
Biologically, sure. But in terms of appearance and mentality, they're the gender they identify as.
If a transgender person hasn't fully transitioned, then I can agree that they should be required to use the bathroom for the gender they were born as, as someone could easily lie about being transgender just to get into the opposite gender's bathroom.
However, if they have transitioned and appear to be masculine/feminine enough, then I see no reason why anyone would be uncomfortable with them using a certain bathroom.
Overall, I just think it's fairly disrespectful and ignorant to refuse someone certain rights, simply because you've decided that they aren't what they say they are, when you yourself haven't gone through what they've had to deal with.
It's essentially the same thing as saying "Depression isn't real, because I've never experienced it for myself. It's all bullshit for sympathy."
It baffles me that we've come to be so accepting of homosexuality, yet people can still be so ignorant to the reality of the whole transgender situation.
What made him "born a guy"? How do you define the term "guy"?
There is absolutely such a thing as ethical disagreement.
No one said anything about religion.
I don't think we are trolls or bullies for having an opinion either. I think it's sad the world promotes a mental disorder as if it is a normality. Just my opinion, you can also think what you like, don't stop others.
No ones spreading hate, but this thread will be locked due to you derailing it, which we all know will now lead to back and forth arguments between yourself and others.
Cheers. Why don't you discuss with people why you disagree with their views, or share your own, instead of putting the shit on the rest of us here. People have their opinions, let them share them. This is a pretty divisive issue today, and I think worthy of discusssion.
In your world, perhaps. In the real world, however, mass mutilation on the basis of a psychological disorder is something people understandingly find morally questionable.
Apparently, we are. History will remember how we committed child abuse on a mass scale by subjecting pre-pubescent boys and girls to hormone blockers, surgery and drugs, all because they don't fit the stereotypical mold of their gender. It's cruelty, not kindness. There is no moral virtue in this, though I'm sure you think there is.
Maybe we should take this full scale. If someone suffers from hallucinations; let's tell them they're real! Let's not medicate them, or give them therapy, that's discrimination and hatred! Oh, and if there's a paranoid schizophrenic, who thinks the walls are telling him to jump out the window, let's say he's right! It would be bigoted to do anything less.
But let's not stop there! People with phantom limbs, let's amputate them at taxpayer expenses! I mean, that's how they feel right? What about people with cotard delusion, who believe they are dead? Let's just kill them!
Tolerance is always the best policy, right?
Can you share your views on anything without blaming religion? No one has even mentioned religion on this thread, until you did. Think on that.
I'm sure many of them are worrying about their own identity and therefore principles, as such they do not acknowledge the credibility of Jenner's transition, thus provocatively refer to him as his former name.
Ever heard of biology, attention seeking, a phase, physiological disorders? It's important to distinguish the differences.
Your version of trolls and internet bullies, being people who disagree with your uber progressive (and scientifically void) mindset... and sometimes honesty must take precedence over compassion, for the greater good.
The world doesn't revolve around you, or celebrities like Jenner either, yet here we all are.
You're right. It doesn't matter.
Not gonna call him that ..sorry.
This ^
I think what most people are trying to say is, it's not so much that Jenner is transsexual, it's about who Jenner is as a person.
Saying you dont like Jenner just because Jenner is transsexual is stupid, just like saying gay marriage is wrong, and really any other stereotype or racist remarks. You can dislike anyone, but it shouldn't be by who they appear or identify as. If someone is transsexual and lets say robbed someone, you should dislike them because they robbed someone, not because they are transsexual. To keep it simple lets have all the examples be robbing someone. If a white person robs someone, you judge them as bad, because they stole not because they are white. If a black person robs someone, you judge them as bad, because they stole not because they are black. If a woman robs someone, you judge them as bad, because they stole not because they are a woman ect. Most reasonable people dislike a person based on who they are based on their actions. Also, most reasonable people dont care what someone does, if its not illegal or effects them in any unwanted way. If Bruce Jenner wanted to have a surgery and become Caitlyn Jenner, fine. You shouldn't care, its their choice and it doesnt harm anyone. But many people already had some sort of opinion on Jenner already, and if that person is reasonable, they dont like Jenner for that reason, not because Jenner is transsexual.
Basically what Im saying is, just because Jenner is transsexual doesnt mean everyone should just go out and support her. Past actions are still there and current actions still shape who she is. And if someone's opinion is that Jenner doesnt deserve the praise, than thats fine. If someone is saying they dont think Jenner deserves the praise because they are transsexual, than thats just shallow thinking and a lack of judgement because like I said, your opinion on someone should be based on their actions, not who or what they identify as.
Well that's just discriminatory and hateful!
What are you talking about? Nobody is discriminating anyone.
This thread is good example of why idpol is generally a waste of time and energy..
You're using the word "dislike" which is a mild form of hate which is what I was trying to get the other person to explain. They said it's being discriminatory. How is it discriminatory? Do people not realise that many people who don't support transgender, transsexual, homosexual, etc. individuals believe it is a mental or behavioral issue rather than natural? That is different than someone discriminating against someone for their skin colour, which can not be considered a "choice" in any way. I understand there are people who dislike trans or gay people only because they are trans or gay, but I don't think the people in this discussion mean that. They may see sexuality or gender identity as something people are choosing rather than accepting what is biologically natural.
Male genitals = Male
No need to pick, that's how it works.
Sure It's not my right to judge others, people can do what they want with their bodies. I shouldn't have control over that, and I don't have control over that. But I can hold an opinion on the matter. My opinion is that Bruce had an obligation as a father, he has children. I don't believe that's fair to them. That's just my opinion. At some point in an individual's life I think they should take into account how what their doing will effect the people around them. These kids had a man they called father, and now he's prancing around in a dress. He's what, in is his 60s or 70s? He should had made this decision long ago and not had a family.
It does effect us, but it effects his children and that's my point.
No it doesn't have to be respected, but it must be tolerated.
No. There are people whom feel that the mere acknowledgement of Caitlyn Jenner existing, is hurting and tainting their children.
That's ridiculous no matter if you agree with it or not.
I feel like the world would be a so much better place if people didn't care as much about what other people do.
This thread seems to have run its course so i am going to close it.