Yeah, considering that fact that Harvey is almost full-on Two-Face, Thomas Wayne was corrupt, and Vicki's a terrorist, you could call it Everyone Is Bad: The Telltale Series.
We had a quick conversation with @Dont_Look_Back about "New World Order," and they've authorized me to publish it here.
I consider that it proposes a plausible theory that involves Vicki Vale being drugged by the real leader of the Children of Arkham.
BetterToSleep
What do you think about the twist at the end of Batman's latest episode?
Dont_Look_Back
Fuckin loved it
So much
BetterToSleep
I did, too. Everything fits, all of a sudden. Vicki was among my favorites, and I despise her now, but damn, is she a character with substance.
Dont_Look_Back
I still like her character I think she's framed
I think she's on drugs too
BetterToSleep
How so?
Dont_Look_Back
Someone drugged her so it's forcing her to do that
BetterToSleep
You think she is not actually the head of the Children of Arkham?
That's interesting.
Dont_Look_Back
Nah
Seems too
Forced
BetterToSleep
Huh…
Dont_Look_Back
Like they're trying to make it seem like it's her
BetterToSleep
So somebody drugged her so that she would take care of the rest.
Dont_Look_Back
Like the real leader is trying to frame her so batman doesn't go looking for the real leader
BetterToSleep
And she's drugging others.
Dont_Look_Back
Yeah
BetterToSleep
That's very clever.
Oh my God.
Dont_Look_Back
Exactly
leader is using her as a scape goat
BetterToSleep
I'm wordless.
Dont_Look_Back
Lol like they're trying to make a Mr Jefferson plot twist but this one is so unpredictable that it seems like they're trying REALLY hard to make it TOO unpredictable
BetterToSleep
Can you imagine if Alfred had drugged and framed her?
Dont_Look_Back
So I think she's on drugs too
Lol that shit would be cool
I was right along. No journalist alive today can be trusted. ...well, I had no idea she'd be the villain. :V But I'm glad I was right not to trust her.
We had a quick conversation with @Dont_Look_Back about "New World Order," and they've authorized me to publish it here.
I consider that i… moret proposes a plausible theory that involves Vicki Vale being drugged by the real leader of the Children of Arkham.
BetterToSleep
What do you think about the twist at the end of Batman's latest episode?
Dont_Look_Back
Fuckin loved it
So much
BetterToSleep
I did, too. Everything fits, all of a sudden. Vicki was among my favorites, and I despise her now, but damn, is she a character with substance.
Dont_Look_Back
I still like her character I think she's framed
I think she's on drugs too
BetterToSleep
How so?
Dont_Look_Back
Someone drugged her so it's forcing her to do that
BetterToSleep
You think she is not actually the head of the Children of Arkham?
That's interesting.
Dont_Look_Back
Nah
Seems too
Forced
BetterToSleep
Huh…
Dont_Look_Back
Like they're trying to… [view original content]
The drug sort of makes you follow orders no matter how sinister the command may be. Also they're obviously advancing the drug so if they could command someone on the drug to attack someone, why not command someone to drug someone else?
Perhaps the drug is much more powerful than the true leader of the Children of Arkham want Batman and the children themselves to believe. If this were the case, the leader would only allow Vicki to inject the drug in small doses so that it appears that it can only last about an hour, ruling out the potential suspicion that Vicki is being played.
The drug sort of makes you follow orders no matter how sinister the command may be. Also they're obviously advancing the drug so if they could command someone on the drug to attack someone, why not command someone to drug someone else?
Don't forget that Vicky didn't have those veins on her. And the drugs induced aggression. Vicky show no such emotion, only sinister, cunning and sadistic traits, which implies that she was in control of her actions. If she was given the drug, I seriously doubts that she had enough control to manipulate Bruce in his drugged state.
Until we see some magical mind control or some extremely advanced mind controlling technology, I still think Vicky is without a doubt the Leader of the Children of Arkham.
The drug sort of makes you follow orders no matter how sinister the command may be. Also they're obviously advancing the drug so if they could command someone on the drug to attack someone, why not command someone to drug someone else?
Don't forget that Vicky didn't have those veins on her. And the drugs induced aggression. Vicky show no such emotion, only sinister, cunning… more and sadistic traits, which implies that she was in control of her actions. If she was given the drug, I seriously doubts that she had enough control to manipulate Bruce in his drugged state.
Until we see some magical mind control or some extremely advanced mind controlling technology, I still think Vicky is without a doubt the Leader of the Children of Arkham.
Like I said "Also they're obviously advancing the drug" so that could explain the veins and aggression thing.
It's just a thought, mostly 'cause I don't want Vicky to be bad haha.
That's not how drugs work. You can't 'insert' personality traits on a person (or have them become master manipulators) through drugging, you need psychological 'treatment' to do so. Sure, you can use a drug to make one more propense to suffer from exterior psychological manipulation, but that's called brainwashing, not drugging.
For example, you can use a drug to make one feel pleasure because there are chemicals who can increase dopamine levels. You can use drugs to make one feel pain, exitment, joy, sadness, and even have one act on their base impulses, but there is no drug that can make one claim that they're seeking retribution nor a drug who can make one claim that they're the leader of a group of terrorists.
If Vicki is being manipulated, it's through brainwashing, which is also unlikely since it'd be almost impossible brainwash a person to preform such complex and precise actions. And since Vicki hasn't shown any kind of psychological disturbance, drug use or instability I'd say that's not the case.
And I think it'd be very 'meh' to have her claim she's the leader and then we discover she's not. It takes away all the suspense behind her character and build up to this moment (consider that there's been hints of her being against Bruce in previous episodes, such as her interest on the future of Arkham Asylum, her wierdly forced involvment on the debate, and many other small overlooked details).
I just hope they don't back away from making fricking Vicki Vale a vilain. I's such a great twist on her character that'll make her 30x more interesting (I'm totally not building a shrine for her right now!).
The drug sort of makes you follow orders no matter how sinister the command may be. Also they're obviously advancing the drug so if they could command someone on the drug to attack someone, why not command someone to drug someone else?
I consider that a good turn on the choice system, honestly. A way to make they matter more, be more difficult and actually have a completely tailored consequence. Instead of having us choose between Wrong Choice X or Wrong Choice Y (and vice versa), and have us suffer Bad Consequence X or Bad Consequence Y, they have us choose between something that could potentially be a wrong move or not and that may bring terrible consequences or not. You can either have prejudice or benefit, instead of prejudice or prejudice, or benefit or benefit. It's more branched in a way, less poetic, sure, but I hate poetry.
And I still think giving Vicki the data isn't exactly the wrong move. Maybe her hatred for you will diminish since you helped her frame Falcone (and since the children of Arkham were trying to get him killed, you ended up helping her them a way). And I guess that's a good thing? The vilain hates us less? Yay?
That is exactly how I felt.
At that point, Jim Gordon and Vicki Vale were both potential allies for Bruce, and the decision of whom to tr… moreust the data with presented two symmetrical options. Their relationships to Bruce were somewhat similar.
With the reveal that Vicki is head of the Children of Arkham, that symmetry vanished.
I know how drugs work. I dont know if ttg exactly followed all the technicalities as this is a video game about a superhero. Also I never said the drug makes you a master manipulator. It sort of makes you follow commands. Like when cobblepot said to the candidates "tell them the truth of what you intended on doing when you're in office." In real life they would never tell the public that but when under the drug, they followed the command.
Example scenario would be that they drugged Vale with the advanced drug, commanded her to drug Bruce and to convince him to attack Cobblepot. If he's under the drug's influence then it takes no master manipulation. The drug does all that.
This is a far fetched scenario but like I said it's just a video games and a bold thought. Try not to take it too seriously.
I just hope they don't back away from making fricking Vicki Vale a vilain.
Don't get me wrong I'm in no way trying to make her not the villain. I think it's a cool idea really but I'm just proposing ideas considering this is a forum and anything can happen in the game.
That's not how drugs work. You can't 'insert' personality traits on a person (or have them become master manipulators) through drugging, yo… moreu need psychological 'treatment' to do so. Sure, you can use a drug to make one more propense to suffer from exterior psychological manipulation, but that's called brainwashing, not drugging.
For example, you can use a drug to make one feel pleasure because there are chemicals who can increase dopamine levels. You can use drugs to make one feel pain, exitment, joy, sadness, and even have one act on their base impulses, but there is no drug that can make one claim that they're seeking retribution nor a drug who can make one claim that they're the leader of a group of terrorists.
If Vicki is being manipulated, it's through brainwashing, which is also unlikely since it'd be almost impossible brainwash a person to preform such complex and precise actions. And since Vicki hasn't shown any kind of psycholog… [view original content]
If that's the case, I definitely understand that he would do so in his current state of emotional imbalance. I dread what is to come for Gotham with a mayor as such, but exactly what level of authority does the Mayor of Gotham have?
If we take into account how much B.S. the American people were willing to endure from Bush Jr.'s administration out of the fear he was the only one who could "get the job done" against al-Qaeda, I'm foreseeing a more extreme scenario playing out between Harvey and the Children of Arkham.
What I'm REALLY wondering, though, is why the authorities would incarcerate Bruce inside Arkham. The veins on his face are clearly visible, … moreand seeing as how both Harvey and Hill exhibited the same symptoms at a public event, why would anyone be so quick to believe Bruce was voluntarily attacking Oswald?
Wasn't Harvey Dent the one who made the decision?
If that's the case, I definitely understand that he would do so in his current state of emotional imbalance. I dread what is to come for Gotham with a mayor as such, but exactly what level of authority does the Mayor of Gotham have?
Like when cobblepot said to the candidates "tell them the truth of what you intended on doing when you're in office." In real life they would never tell the public that but when under the drug, they followed the command.
Not exactly. They didn't 'follow his command' per se, the drug was just designed to take their moral filters and make them act on their base impulses, so when asked about the city, instead of filtering themselves and telling people what they wanted to hear, the drug made them tell the truth, not because Oz told them to, but because the drug was designed to strip them of them.
Now, what I'm saying is that a drug can't 'insert' specific actions onto you. It can't make you hate another person all of a sudden, that hate has to be there beforehand. So if anyone wanted to have Vicki drug Bruce, she'd have to have an hatred for Bruce beforehand so she could actually act on her base impulses and hurt him on purpose (yet accidentally). And if Vicki was acting on her base impulses, she'd never be able to manipulate Bruce onto thinking she was approaching him as a friend (and that's where the 'become a master mind' thing came from, not because you claimed so), she'd be erratic or at least acting a little bit weird.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, you suggested that someone could've drugged Vicki and make her drug Bruce by approaching him passively and that she should claim that she was the leader of the Children and was acting motivated by retribution and I just think there's no drug that could make one follow such specific orders.
This is a far fetched scenario but like I said it's just a video games and a bold thought. Try not to take it too seriously.
Oh, I'm not. This is just a silly discussion on a forum. I just thought I'd give my two cents J(^~^)L. Although, I admit, my comment came a bit out of nowhere since you were already discussing the exact same thing with DaveTheArakin. My bad.
I know how drugs work. I dont know if ttg exactly followed all the technicalities as this is a video game about a superhero. Also I never s… moreaid the drug makes you a master manipulator. It sort of makes you follow commands. Like when cobblepot said to the candidates "tell them the truth of what you intended on doing when you're in office." In real life they would never tell the public that but when under the drug, they followed the command.
Example scenario would be that they drugged Vale with the advanced drug, commanded her to drug Bruce and to convince him to attack Cobblepot. If he's under the drug's influence then it takes no master manipulation. The drug does all that.
This is a far fetched scenario but like I said it's just a video games and a bold thought. Try not to take it too seriously.
I just hope they don't back away from making fricking Vicki Vale a vilain.
Don't get me wrong I'm in no way trying to make he… [view original content]
You do raise some fair points, although none of them rule out the possibility that somebody drugged Vicki and she became Lady Arkham due to the fact that she couldn't rule her whims.
In essence, it is possible that what happened only happened given that she couldn't control her impulses, and also because becoming Lady Arkham was on her mind—a combination of both. She had the idea to seek retribution, but she wouldn't have acted on it had she not been drugged by somebody else who knew about this.
Like when cobblepot said to the candidates "tell them the truth of what you intended on doing when you're in office." In real life they woul… mored never tell the public that but when under the drug, they followed the command.
Not exactly. They didn't 'follow his command' per se, the drug was just designed to take their moral filters and make them act on their base impulses, so when asked about the city, instead of filtering themselves and telling people what they wanted to hear, the drug made them tell the truth, not because Oz told them to, but because the drug was designed to strip them of them.
Now, what I'm saying is that a drug can't 'insert' specific actions onto you. It can't make you hate another person all of a sudden, that hate has to be there beforehand. So if anyone wanted to have Vicki drug Bruce, she'd have to have an hatred for Bruce beforehand so she could actually act on her base impulses and hurt him on purpose (yet acci… [view original content]
Well this makes me want to play the game again after all the episodes are released, basing my decisions on what I know now. And I have definitely decided to ship Batcat. Never cared about shipping before I played TFTB, and now I'm waiting for the next TTG that features Troy Baker and Erin Yvette to ship their characters again
We should've seen it coming when she started spouting Children Of Arkham talking points, that was almost enough for me to be done with her, then this happened.
I'm surprised more people didn't guess. Everyone was thinking it was going to be like Scarecrow, Joker or Hugo Strange, without taking into account how these games work. Vicki makes the most sense for a twist reveal.
And that's why it was brilliant to have her be a reporter. We would be more likely to blame any distrust and misgivings we felt about her on her profession rather than on her being a major antagonist. It's certainly a clever sleight of hand, whether others saw through it or not
I was right along. No journalist alive today can be trusted. ...well, I had no idea she'd be the villain. :V But I'm glad I was right not to trust her.
Well this makes me want to play the game again after all the episodes are released, basing my decisions on what I know now. And I have defin… moreitely decided to ship Batcat. Never cared about shipping before I played TFTB, and now I'm waiting for the next TTG that features Troy Baker and Erin Yvette to ship their characters again
It was great homage to comic book, simmilarly to Joker's origin in Arkham Origins.
But man, that Abrams' marketing stunt (There is no Kahn in Star Trek sequel) with brand new character Arkham Knight, that we haven't seen yet in game or comic books was pretty cheap!
They should've added Red Hood as sidemission or rather smaller part of the story and him being Red Hood (and Arkham Knight probably being someone other linked to AA).
This reminded me, how angry I was and almost threw the controller out of the window during tank battles.
I was one of those that wanted to get with Vicki. I didn't sense anything was up until we talked in the park and she was defending the very same people who tried to kill her in the last episode. I have to admit, when i went to the villain's location and it wasn't an immediate trap i thought maybe i was wrong about mistrusting her. Then she does that at the end confirming my park suspicions.
Comments
Mom always wins, doesn't she.
I didn't know it was possible for Bruce to refuse Selina!
Yeah, considering that fact that Harvey is almost full-on Two-Face, Thomas Wayne was corrupt, and Vicki's a terrorist, you could call it Everyone Is Bad: The Telltale Series.
#IAmThe10%
We had a quick conversation with @Dont_Look_Back about "New World Order," and they've authorized me to publish it here.
I consider that it proposes a plausible theory that involves Vicki Vale being drugged by the real leader of the Children of Arkham.
BetterToSleep
What do you think about the twist at the end of Batman's latest episode?
Dont_Look_Back
Fuckin loved it
So much
BetterToSleep
I did, too. Everything fits, all of a sudden. Vicki was among my favorites, and I despise her now, but damn, is she a character with substance.
Dont_Look_Back
I still like her character I think she's framed
I think she's on drugs too
BetterToSleep
How so?
Dont_Look_Back
Someone drugged her so it's forcing her to do that
BetterToSleep
You think she is not actually the head of the Children of Arkham?
That's interesting.
Dont_Look_Back
Nah
Seems too
Forced
BetterToSleep
Huh…
Dont_Look_Back
Like they're trying to make it seem like it's her
BetterToSleep
So somebody drugged her so that she would take care of the rest.
Dont_Look_Back
Like the real leader is trying to frame her so batman doesn't go looking for the real leader
BetterToSleep
And she's drugging others.
Dont_Look_Back
Yeah
BetterToSleep
That's very clever.
Oh my God.
Dont_Look_Back
Exactly
leader is using her as a scape goat
BetterToSleep
I'm wordless.
Dont_Look_Back
Lol like they're trying to make a Mr Jefferson plot twist but this one is so unpredictable that it seems like they're trying REALLY hard to make it TOO unpredictable
BetterToSleep
Can you imagine if Alfred had drugged and framed her?
Dont_Look_Back
So I think she's on drugs too
Lol that shit would be cool
I was right along. No journalist alive today can be trusted. ...well, I had no idea she'd be the villain. :V But I'm glad I was right not to trust her.
Seems a bit odd to me, I don't see how being drugged makes you drug other people.
The drug sort of makes you follow orders no matter how sinister the command may be. Also they're obviously advancing the drug so if they could command someone on the drug to attack someone, why not command someone to drug someone else?
Perhaps the drug is much more powerful than the true leader of the Children of Arkham want Batman and the children themselves to believe. If this were the case, the leader would only allow Vicki to inject the drug in small doses so that it appears that it can only last about an hour, ruling out the potential suspicion that Vicki is being played.
Don't forget that Vicky didn't have those veins on her. And the drugs induced aggression. Vicky show no such emotion, only sinister, cunning and sadistic traits, which implies that she was in control of her actions. If she was given the drug, I seriously doubts that she had enough control to manipulate Bruce in his drugged state.
Until we see some magical mind control or some extremely advanced mind controlling technology, I still think Vicky is without a doubt the Leader of the Children of Arkham.
Like I said "Also they're obviously advancing the drug" so that could explain the veins and aggression thing.
It's just a thought, mostly 'cause I don't want Vicky to be bad haha.
I see your point and I can understand why you and others want Vicky to be good.
I personally feel that Vicky being bad gives the story a nice twist and put the story into an unexpected direction.
That's not how drugs work. You can't 'insert' personality traits on a person (or have them become master manipulators) through drugging, you need psychological 'treatment' to do so. Sure, you can use a drug to make one more propense to suffer from exterior psychological manipulation, but that's called brainwashing, not drugging.
For example, you can use a drug to make one feel pleasure because there are chemicals who can increase dopamine levels. You can use drugs to make one feel pain, exitment, joy, sadness, and even have one act on their base impulses, but there is no drug that can make one claim that they're seeking retribution nor a drug who can make one claim that they're the leader of a group of terrorists.
If Vicki is being manipulated, it's through brainwashing, which is also unlikely since it'd be almost impossible brainwash a person to preform such complex and precise actions. And since Vicki hasn't shown any kind of psychological disturbance, drug use or instability I'd say that's not the case.
And I think it'd be very 'meh' to have her claim she's the leader and then we discover she's not. It takes away all the suspense behind her character and build up to this moment (consider that there's been hints of her being against Bruce in previous episodes, such as her interest on the future of Arkham Asylum, her wierdly forced involvment on the debate, and many other small overlooked details).
I just hope they don't back away from making fricking Vicki Vale a vilain. I's such a great twist on her character that'll make her 30x more interesting (I'm totally not building a shrine for her right now!).
Good thing I gave the data to Gordon.
EDIT: Wait, I forgot...I gave Vicki a quote!!! I am so fucked.
I consider that a good turn on the choice system, honestly. A way to make they matter more, be more difficult and actually have a completely tailored consequence. Instead of having us choose between Wrong Choice X or Wrong Choice Y (and vice versa), and have us suffer Bad Consequence X or Bad Consequence Y, they have us choose between something that could potentially be a wrong move or not and that may bring terrible consequences or not. You can either have prejudice or benefit, instead of prejudice or prejudice, or benefit or benefit. It's more branched in a way, less poetic, sure, but I hate poetry.
And I still think giving Vicki the data isn't exactly the wrong move. Maybe her hatred for you will diminish since you helped her frame Falcone (and since the children of Arkham were trying to get him killed, you ended up helping her them a way). And I guess that's a good thing? The vilain hates us less? Yay?
I know how drugs work. I dont know if ttg exactly followed all the technicalities as this is a video game about a superhero. Also I never said the drug makes you a master manipulator. It sort of makes you follow commands. Like when cobblepot said to the candidates "tell them the truth of what you intended on doing when you're in office." In real life they would never tell the public that but when under the drug, they followed the command.
Example scenario would be that they drugged Vale with the advanced drug, commanded her to drug Bruce and to convince him to attack Cobblepot. If he's under the drug's influence then it takes no master manipulation. The drug does all that.
This is a far fetched scenario but like I said it's just a video games and a bold thought. Try not to take it too seriously.
Don't get me wrong I'm in no way trying to make her not the villain. I think it's a cool idea really but I'm just proposing ideas considering this is a forum and anything can happen in the game.
If we take into account how much B.S. the American people were willing to endure from Bush Jr.'s administration out of the fear he was the only one who could "get the job done" against al-Qaeda, I'm foreseeing a more extreme scenario playing out between Harvey and the Children of Arkham.
Not exactly. They didn't 'follow his command' per se, the drug was just designed to take their moral filters and make them act on their base impulses, so when asked about the city, instead of filtering themselves and telling people what they wanted to hear, the drug made them tell the truth, not because Oz told them to, but because the drug was designed to strip them of them.
Now, what I'm saying is that a drug can't 'insert' specific actions onto you. It can't make you hate another person all of a sudden, that hate has to be there beforehand. So if anyone wanted to have Vicki drug Bruce, she'd have to have an hatred for Bruce beforehand so she could actually act on her base impulses and hurt him on purpose (yet accidentally). And if Vicki was acting on her base impulses, she'd never be able to manipulate Bruce onto thinking she was approaching him as a friend (and that's where the 'become a master mind' thing came from, not because you claimed so), she'd be erratic or at least acting a little bit weird.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, you suggested that someone could've drugged Vicki and make her drug Bruce by approaching him passively and that she should claim that she was the leader of the Children and was acting motivated by retribution and I just think there's no drug that could make one follow such specific orders.
Oh, I'm not. This is just a silly discussion on a forum. I just thought I'd give my two cents J(^~^)L. Although, I admit, my comment came a bit out of nowhere since you were already discussing the exact same thing with DaveTheArakin. My bad.
You do raise some fair points, although none of them rule out the possibility that somebody drugged Vicki and she became Lady Arkham due to the fact that she couldn't rule her whims.
In essence, it is possible that what happened only happened given that she couldn't control her impulses, and also because becoming Lady Arkham was on her mind—a combination of both. She had the idea to seek retribution, but she wouldn't have acted on it had she not been drugged by somebody else who knew about this.
Well this makes me want to play the game again after all the episodes are released, basing my decisions on what I know now. And I have definitely decided to ship Batcat. Never cared about shipping before I played TFTB, and now I'm waiting for the next TTG that features Troy Baker and Erin Yvette to ship their characters again
Aye, the episode waits are always the worst part. Especially after such a massive twist ending! Really looking forward to episode 4 though!
We should've seen it coming when she started spouting Children Of Arkham talking points, that was almost enough for me to be done with her, then this happened.
I called it.
https://telltale.com/community/discussion/comment/2591103#Comment_2591103
I'm surprised more people didn't guess. Everyone was thinking it was going to be like Scarecrow, Joker or Hugo Strange, without taking into account how these games work. Vicki makes the most sense for a twist reveal.
Didn't pay much attention about it.
I was bit suspicious about her constant appearance in earlier episodes.
I don't regret giving her the data because i flipped for it
Next i find it odd when they used a tv to show the leader. Often means its just a recording or impersonator.
But still does not make it definite that she's indeed the leader.
And that's why it was brilliant to have her be a reporter. We would be more likely to blame any distrust and misgivings we felt about her on her profession rather than on her being a major antagonist. It's certainly a clever sleight of hand, whether others saw through it or not
Wouldn't shipping BatVale be a lot more Dark Side-ish, considering SHE'S THE LEADER OF A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION?
Considering all the discussion over whether Bruce should have sealed the deal with Selina, I say ¿Por qué no los dos?
Because it would make Bruce look like a crazy idiot without even having to dress up in a bat costume?
Okay.
It was great homage to comic book, simmilarly to Joker's origin in Arkham Origins.
But man, that Abrams' marketing stunt (There is no Kahn in Star Trek sequel) with brand new character Arkham Knight, that we haven't seen yet in game or comic books was pretty cheap!
They should've added Red Hood as sidemission or rather smaller part of the story and him being Red Hood (and Arkham Knight probably being someone other linked to AA).
This reminded me, how angry I was and almost threw the controller out of the window during tank battles.
I was one of those that wanted to get with Vicki. I didn't sense anything was up until we talked in the park and she was defending the very same people who tried to kill her in the last episode. I have to admit, when i went to the villain's location and it wasn't an immediate trap i thought maybe i was wrong about mistrusting her. Then she does that at the end confirming my park suspicions.