Oh, because the complexities behind the appearance, behavior, actions, and portrayal of her character happen to line up with many elements that make it easy for someone to see her as being any archetype, trope, straw[wo]man, stereotype, or psychological case that she reminds them of.
I opine that we need accuracy, not particularly more gay characters.
Think about how many characters there are whose sexuality has not been explored; we should not assume that they are heterosexual, or then we will be led to the conclusion that there is a lack of sexually diverse characters. It's possible that we have met gay survivors and we do not know, just as we do not know that we have met heterosexual survivors.
I believe that the cast should be representative of our world's demographics. Isn't America's population two thirds white? If this is the case, then I say that the proportion of people of color to white people is larger that it would realistically be.
Accuracy is the reason why I intervened when somebody claimed that Jonas and Zachary's appearance was mere service to gay players, but simultaneously I believe that the proportion of gay characters in the series should not be much larger than our world's, or else it will reasonably feel like fan service.
The point of those things was to provide examples for how she could be interpreted as an icon for "feminism." I'm trying not to argue about them here because that's not the topic.
And when did Rebecca almost miscarry and what did it have to do with Jane?
The observation deck. Because Jane made Luke that offer, he ended up neglecting his job as watchguard, which allowed the herd to get fairly close to the group. Sarah sees them coming and warns everyone in time for them to hurry towards the deck with the herd right on their heels. After the defense of the observation deck ends with Sarah dying and Clementine dropping the deck on her and the members of the herd who followed Jane's example of crawling up the board-railing, it initially appears that the baby died during the birthing process as it was lying breathlessly in Kenny's hands. Luckily, it soon coughs to life and isn't actually dead, ergo an avoided miscarriage.
You seem unnecessarily critical of Jane just because she knew what she was doing and was prepared. I think people forget that most of us wou… moreld be weak and scared in lawless zombie-filled wilderness. There's nothing wrong with Jane because she's an exception. She was in the best position to take out Troy who might have shot somebody. And when did Rebecca almost miscarry and what did it have to do with Jane? She was harsh with Sarah in the trailer, but would you like to lift dead weight through the ceiling if you were about to be eaten by zombies. Jane's point was true: you can't keep putting your life at risk for someone who could but won't help them self.
Agreed. He may not have been able to properly address all of the baggage that did/would've carried over from the previous episodes in No Going back, but he clearly knew what he was doing. I wish he had been able to stick around for Episode 3 and Amid the Ruins.
Walter and Mathew...other than the talk with Walter we did not get much of a view...yet Walter and Matthew came off as any number of couples that I have known. Zachary and Jonas is a mixed bag.
That far into the apocalypse it is hard to believe there are people as innocent as Zachary....
However the scorn that Randall showed for Zachary...it is indeed familiar. Monroe seemed to have quite a few people...surely Zachary could have been used as Jonas's orderly....Randall just came off as badgering Zachary for not being tough and being gay... but yes I have seen that type of badgering before..so that part wAs believable.
Cool. You're right that homosexual character's inclusion should be more than just a novelty for the sake of it.
How did you feel about Walter and Matthew or Zachary and Jonas?
I opine that we need accuracy, not particularly more gay characters.
Think about how many characters there are whose sexuality has not be… moreen explored; we should not assume that they are heterosexual, or then we will be led to the conclusion that there is a lack of sexually diverse characters. It's possible that we have met gay survivors and we do not know, just as we do not know that we have met heterosexual survivors.
I believe that the cast should be representative of our world's demographics. Isn't America's population two thirds white? If this is the case, then I say that the proportion of people of color to white people is larger that it would realistically be.
Accuracy is the reason why I intervened when somebody claimed that Jonas and Zachary's appearance was mere service to gay players, but simultaneously I believe that the proportion of gay characters in the series should not be much larger than our world's, or else it will reasonably feel like fan service.
Agreed. He may not have been able to properly address all of the baggage that did/would've carried over from the previous episodes in No Goi… moreng back, but he clearly knew what he was doing. I wish he had been able to stick around for Episode 3 and Amid the Ruins.
I felt the leaving with Kenny ending was terrible....then what was the point? Everyone died and he just lets Clementine piss all over everyone who died protecting her and AJ by letting her not go to safety?
I felt the leaving with Kenny ending was terrible....then what was the point? Everyone died and he just lets Clementine piss all over everyone who died protecting her and AJ by letting her not go to safety?
It was not only the happiest ending, but Kenny helped along the way the whole way through, he deserved to stay at Wellington and if he couldnt I wasnt going to stay, the whole plan was that everyone could stay at wellington and I didnt want Clem to break the promise. Ofcourse one reason of ditching him is someone who doesnt like Kenny would prefer leaving him.. but many Kenny fans dont want to ditch their favorite character, more than likely he would die if he was alone.
I felt the leaving with Kenny ending was terrible....then what was the point? Everyone died and he just lets Clementine piss all over everyone who died protecting her and AJ by letting her not go to safety?
Isn't treating men like farm animals or neutering the more violent/offensive ones a stereotype of "feminism" or something?
That is true; that sounds like BuzzFeed comment section propaganda, although we do not see it much in the physical world.
Obviously, otherwise the whole pragmatic survivalist angle wouldn't work to well. This is merely one of the attributes to the "feminist" icon interpretation.
From my perspective, the extreme feminist movement depicts it as the entire female sex being superior than the entire male sex, but not as individuals. A woman would not be able to surpass another woman by their logic, unless the latter woman is not a feminist.
Yeah, that one might be me confusing "feminism" with masculinity. One night stands are typically on the male side, after all.
I believe this is the case as well.
I know what she meant in context, but out of context, it's that whole "be your own woman" thing.
I'd be lying if I said I didn't try to look at that in a more positive light, but unfortunately, I simply cannot take Jane's side when it comes to her values--especially where someone like Clementine is concerned. What she caused before and afterwards certainly don't help.
I do see how it can resemble the extreme feminist movement, but I do not believe that Jane said it with that meaning in mind. She was speaking broadly, as in "be your own survivor," regardless of sex.
This might tie in with my personal problems with Jane, but word of advice from storytellers everywhere: you don't give a major character you want us to like the same negative beliefs as the main villain unless you're portraying it as a legitimate flaw on their part that they will acknowledge the downsides of and attempt to overcome.
Scratch that the first part: this is one facet of a major problem with Jane's character in general.
Agreed, partly.
As you first addressed, modern storytellers make multiple exceptions to these rules by contrasting the antagonist's and an allie's beliefs, especially in morally ambiguous narratives.
I believed that a version Carver's approach was the most effective at orchestrating a post-apocalyptic community in the first place, which is why at times I consider his and Jane's approach the most moral, speaking long-term; a person died, but you saved multiple lives down the line. This would prove then as the best outcome, broadly speaking.
She literally uses that line, dude. I know I'm not biggest fan of Jane to begin with and the whole straw feminist angle is more of a noticeable interpretation than something that defines her character, but that's probably the biggest testament to making those undertones overtones.
I was referring to the fact that Jane was not presenting the situation to Clementine like that, a-la-Life-is-Strange, in a way that life will be good if we simply drive away.
The way that option was presented was much less sudden.
How is this a stereotype?
Isn't treating men like farm animals or neutering the more violent/offensive ones a stereotype of "feminis… morem" or something?
She outdoes virtually all characters, male and female, and maybe that is something that you had not considered until now. She is better at surviving than most of the cast, not just the male!
Obviously, otherwise the whole pragmatic survivalist angle wouldn't work to well. This is merely one of the attributes to the "feminist" icon interpretation.
That was purely coincidental. Bonnie is more feminine as well and we did not see her criticizing her; and if she had, it would not have been because she is more feminine, just as she didn't criticize Sarah and Sarita for being more feminine.
True. A coincidence that fits the bill but a coincidence nonetheless; I concede.
I don't understand what you mean nor how it connects to Jane.
Yeah, that one might be… [view original content]
Even though I helped Kenny kill her dad and then left her on the side of the road, I think Lilly was a very-written, complex and very sympathetic character.
...I probably look like a fucking hypocrite right now.
Even though I helped Kenny kill her dad and then left her on the side of the road, I think Lilly was a very-written, complex and very sympathetic character.
...I probably look like a fucking hypocrite right now.
Clem and Ben yes, but honestly i don't give a s*** about Sarita and Sarah and Arvo didn't mean much to me. Becca is overrated, but for me Kenny and Lilly are the best characters in the game in terms of being unique, each in their own way
I find characters like Clementine, Ben, Sarah, Sarita, and Arvo to be inherently more interesting than characters like Kenny, Lilly, Becca, Jane, and especially Carver.
This is because when the game is recent everyone will say it's good, because of the hype (?), but after some time they begin seeing more of the game's flaws
It was not only the happiest ending, but Kenny helped along the way the whole way through, he deserved to stay at Wellington and if he could… morent I wasnt going to stay, the whole plan was that everyone could stay at wellington and I didnt want Clem to break the promise. Ofcourse one reason of ditching him is someone who doesnt like Kenny would prefer leaving him.. but many Kenny fans dont want to ditch their favorite character, more than likely he would die if he was alone.
I know, but he deserved to stay at wellington along with Clem, I didnt want her to have to stay with a bunch of strangers. Anywho I dont even think staying at wellington is even worth it, it looks like shes on her own again judging by the trailer. Leaving with Kenny, staying at wellington, going alone, looks like the same outcome.
I felt the leaving with Kenny ending was terrible....then what was the point? Everyone died and he just lets Clementine piss all over everyone who died protecting her and AJ by letting her not go to safety?
From my perspective, the extreme feminist movement depicts it as the entire female sex being superior than the entire male sex, but not as individuals. A woman would not be able to surpass another woman by their logic, unless the latter woman is not a feminist.
I believed that a version Carver's approach was the most effective at orchestrating a post-apocalyptic community in the first place, which is why at times I consider his and Jane's approach the most moral, speaking long-term; a person died, but you saved multiple lives down the line. This would prove then as the best outcome, broadly speaking.
Ehh, I guess. Really, it once again comes down to the execution.
In an interesting variation of "Show, don't Tell," Carver was pretty much just a smug, psychopathic tyrant, so believing that his ways were doing any good is kinda hard, but not as hard as other things, since both Troy and Taavia have lines implying that Reggie does indeed have a habit of messing up, so it's not like it falls completely flat.
And while Jane actually had an understandable reason for her logic, her implementation of this thinking put into practice suuuucks. Her pressuring Clementine into forsaking Sarah was callous because
a. not only was she basing it on her own experiences with Jaime in which she kept her going across multiple states before ending in a situation where she was forced to leave Jaime because there was no way to help her to safety herself,
b. not only because Sarah was literally in a situation where getting her to safety would've taken all of 20 seconds if they tried hard enough,
c. but also because she insists Sarah is/was dangerous when really saving her does nothing to hurt the group and in fact helped thanklessly save them from a threat that she herself gets killed by due to Jane's selfishness.
And her insistence that Kenny is becoming like Carver ends up dragging her down because
a. she was already wrong about Sarah, who even I'd argue wasn't the most stable person around,
b. she provided the conditions for his sanity slippage when she robbed Arvo, turning the boy into the sole survivor of his group and Kenny's punching bag,
c. she forces a situation where he'd attack her by hiding the baby, which is basically manipulating things to go down on her terms,
d. and she had more than proven herself to be already like Carver in her treatment of Rebecca, Sarah, Arvo, and AJ.
I was referring to the fact that Jane was not presenting the situation to Clementine like that, a-la-Life-is-Strange, in a way that life will be good if we simply drive away.
The way that option was presented was much less sudden.
Um, okay. Since my only experience with Life is Strange comes down to a few "fan videos," can you sum up the basic idea of what you're referring to for comparison's sake?
Isn't treating men like farm animals or neutering the more violent/offensive ones a stereotype of "feminism" or something?
That is t… morerue; that sounds like BuzzFeed comment section propaganda, although we do not see it much in the physical world.
Obviously, otherwise the whole pragmatic survivalist angle wouldn't work to well. This is merely one of the attributes to the "feminist" icon interpretation.
From my perspective, the extreme feminist movement depicts it as the entire female sex being superior than the entire male sex, but not as individuals. A woman would not be able to surpass another woman by their logic, unless the latter woman is not a feminist.
Yeah, that one might be me confusing "feminism" with masculinity. One night stands are typically on the male side, after all.
I believe this is the case as well.
I know what she meant in context, but out of context, it's that whole "be your own woma… [view original content]
Would anyone really choose Carver after (dependingly) hitting/punching clem, letting his people boss her and her group around, killing a few of her friends, I think Kenny would have more fans if it was that way.
Comments
Oh, because the complexities behind the appearance, behavior, actions, and portrayal of her character happen to line up with many elements that make it easy for someone to see her as being any archetype, trope, straw[wo]man, stereotype, or psychological case that she reminds them of.
You can say that about a lot of characters.
#InNickBreckonWeTrust
That GIF scares me.
Which episodes did he write?
I opine that we need accuracy, not particularly more gay characters.
Think about how many characters there are whose sexuality has not been explored; we should not assume that they are heterosexual, or then we will be led to the conclusion that there is a lack of sexually diverse characters. It's possible that we have met gay survivors and we do not know, just as we do not know that we have met heterosexual survivors.
I believe that the cast should be representative of our world's demographics. Isn't America's population two thirds white? If this is the case, then I say that the proportion of people of color to white people is larger that it would realistically be.
Accuracy is the reason why I intervened when somebody claimed that Jonas and Zachary's appearance was mere service to gay players, but simultaneously I believe that the proportion of gay characters in the series should not be much larger than our world's, or else it will reasonably feel like fan service.
I liked Ben, I prefer s2 over s1, I prefer Clem being a kid, leaving with Kenny and not staying at wellignton is best ending.
1, 2 and 5 of Season 2.
The point of those things was to provide examples for how she could be interpreted as an icon for "feminism." I'm trying not to argue about them here because that's not the topic.
The observation deck. Because Jane made Luke that offer, he ended up neglecting his job as watchguard, which allowed the herd to get fairly close to the group. Sarah sees them coming and warns everyone in time for them to hurry towards the deck with the herd right on their heels. After the defense of the observation deck ends with Sarah dying and Clementine dropping the deck on her and the members of the herd who followed Jane's example of crawling up the board-railing, it initially appears that the baby died during the birthing process as it was lying breathlessly in Kenny's hands. Luckily, it soon coughs to life and isn't actually dead, ergo an avoided miscarriage.
Oh, then I agree.
Agreed. He may not have been able to properly address all of the baggage that did/would've carried over from the previous episodes in No Going back, but he clearly knew what he was doing. I wish he had been able to stick around for Episode 3 and Amid the Ruins.
Cool. You're right that homosexual character's inclusion should be more than just a novelty for the sake of it.
How did you feel about Walter and Matthew or Zachary and Jonas?
Walter and Mathew...other than the talk with Walter we did not get much of a view...yet Walter and Matthew came off as any number of couples that I have known. Zachary and Jonas is a mixed bag.
That far into the apocalypse it is hard to believe there are people as innocent as Zachary....
However the scorn that Randall showed for Zachary...it is indeed familiar. Monroe seemed to have quite a few people...surely Zachary could have been used as Jonas's orderly....Randall just came off as badgering Zachary for not being tough and being gay... but yes I have seen that type of badgering before..so that part wAs believable.
THIS.
I agree with pretty much everything.
You mean where the story was irrevocably broken. I hope he does a good job.
If you meant Episode 3 and Amid the Ruins, then yes.
I felt the leaving with Kenny ending was terrible....then what was the point? Everyone died and he just lets Clementine piss all over everyone who died protecting her and AJ by letting her not go to safety?
Yeah, admittedly it was kinda jarring when I saw that was a thing on my second playthrough.
It was not only the happiest ending, but Kenny helped along the way the whole way through, he deserved to stay at Wellington and if he couldnt I wasnt going to stay, the whole plan was that everyone could stay at wellington and I didnt want Clem to break the promise. Ofcourse one reason of ditching him is someone who doesnt like Kenny would prefer leaving him.. but many Kenny fans dont want to ditch their favorite character, more than likely he would die if he was alone.
THAT.
That is true; that sounds like BuzzFeed comment section propaganda, although we do not see it much in the physical world.
From my perspective, the extreme feminist movement depicts it as the entire female sex being superior than the entire male sex, but not as individuals. A woman would not be able to surpass another woman by their logic, unless the latter woman is not a feminist.
I believe this is the case as well.
I do see how it can resemble the extreme feminist movement, but I do not believe that Jane said it with that meaning in mind. She was speaking broadly, as in "be your own survivor," regardless of sex.
Agreed, partly.
As you first addressed, modern storytellers make multiple exceptions to these rules by contrasting the antagonist's and an allie's beliefs, especially in morally ambiguous narratives.
I believed that a version Carver's approach was the most effective at orchestrating a post-apocalyptic community in the first place, which is why at times I consider his and Jane's approach the most moral, speaking long-term; a person died, but you saved multiple lives down the line. This would prove then as the best outcome, broadly speaking.
I was referring to the fact that Jane was not presenting the situation to Clementine like that, a-la-Life-is-Strange, in a way that life will be good if we simply drive away.
The way that option was presented was much less sudden.
Even though I helped Kenny kill her dad and then left her on the side of the road, I think Lilly was a very-written, complex and very sympathetic character.
...I probably look like a fucking hypocrite right now.
Clem's best voice acting was unfortunately in the episode with the worst audio quality, A New Day.
What was wrong with the audio in A New Day?
Deliberately hyping Season 2 up with a fight for the sake of controversy was stupid.
Yeah you do...but hey you Kenny fans gotta support your boy.
And what's wrong with the voice acting in the other episodes?
This is because when the game is recent everyone will say it's good, because of the hype (?), but after some time they begin seeing more of the game's flaws
Agree about Lee, his death was good for the story, and so well done that it would be a waste if he comes back
I like Kenny, he's one of my favorite characters. But I stayed at Wellington, it's what he wanted, and it was the safest option for Clem and AJ.
The comics will always be better than the show unless they made an animated version that's a 100% direct adaptation of the comic.
No, 204 had terrible audio and sloppy audio mixing.
and in 205? that noise Jane made when she died?
What the fuck was that?
that's not really an unpopular opinion, it's what most comic readers think.
I know, but he deserved to stay at wellington along with Clem, I didnt want her to have to stay with a bunch of strangers. Anywho I dont even think staying at wellington is even worth it, it looks like shes on her own again judging by the trailer. Leaving with Kenny, staying at wellington, going alone, looks like the same outcome.
If Kenny wouldn't let Clem and AJ go to safety, why did he volunteer to not stay at Wellington so Clementine and AJ could be safe?
Yeah, I hating seeing that guy when I was younger.
Ehh, I guess. Really, it once again comes down to the execution.
In an interesting variation of "Show, don't Tell," Carver was pretty much just a smug, psychopathic tyrant, so believing that his ways were doing any good is kinda hard, but not as hard as other things, since both Troy and Taavia have lines implying that Reggie does indeed have a habit of messing up, so it's not like it falls completely flat.
And while Jane actually had an understandable reason for her logic, her implementation of this thinking put into practice suuuucks. Her pressuring Clementine into forsaking Sarah was callous because
a. not only was she basing it on her own experiences with Jaime in which she kept her going across multiple states before ending in a situation where she was forced to leave Jaime because there was no way to help her to safety herself,
b. not only because Sarah was literally in a situation where getting her to safety would've taken all of 20 seconds if they tried hard enough,
c. but also because she insists Sarah is/was dangerous when really saving her does nothing to hurt the group and in fact helped thanklessly save them from a threat that she herself gets killed by due to Jane's selfishness.
And her insistence that Kenny is becoming like Carver ends up dragging her down because
a. she was already wrong about Sarah, who even I'd argue wasn't the most stable person around,
b. she provided the conditions for his sanity slippage when she robbed Arvo, turning the boy into the sole survivor of his group and Kenny's punching bag,
c. she forces a situation where he'd attack her by hiding the baby, which is basically manipulating things to go down on her terms,
d. and she had more than proven herself to be already like Carver in her treatment of Rebecca, Sarah, Arvo, and AJ.
Um, okay. Since my only experience with Life is Strange comes down to a few "fan videos," can you sum up the basic idea of what you're referring to for comparison's sake?
Would anyone really choose Carver after (dependingly) hitting/punching clem, letting his people boss her and her group around, killing a few of her friends, I think Kenny would have more fans if it was that way.