All of this is just assuming. It's not factual. Do you know how massive the outcry would be? Especially in today's world? It's already been legalized and it's going to stay that way.
..what? Did you read my comment?
Marriage equality was passed by the supreme court judges 3 votes to 2. Donald trump will select new, mo… morere conservative justices.
If Marriage equality gets put before the supreme court again, as is planned, after the justices have been replaced, it could easily be gotten rid of.
It's not about whether Trump supports gay marriage or not, it's about whether the new justices he puts on the supreme court will, which is unlikely as to appease the Republicans he'll have to put on very conservative justices.
What justices presidents put on the Supreme court is a massive, massive part of their impact on America.
So explain to me how the president who gets to pick supreme court justices has no impact whatsoever on whether, when taken to the supreme court, marriage equality will be removed?
Yeah, just look at how people are reacting now? It would be a thousand times worse if something like this happened. Whatever Pence believed or currently believes, he's not the president. He's not on the Supreme Court. He was an extreme counter balance to Trump because, Trump isn't very conservative. He speaks it like a second language because he is, at best, an independent playing a Republican.
I don't personally believe he's a particularly strong ally for the LGBTQ community, but I know for a fact he's not an enemy of yours (though he does want to suspend the immigration of people who are).
Give him a chance. Give his administration a chance. It hasn't even begun yet. But one thing is a guarantee, they need to keep the peace. They need to remain popular within public perception, and at least try to placate the media.
To that end, upholding marriage equality is a must. And they know that. At worst, it's relegated to a state-by-state decision, but I'm confidant it won't even come to that.
Though if it does, I'll stand with you (among millions of others, I assure you) in opposition of the call. Until then, quit fearmongering.
'stomping on everyone's parade' implies we're happy about this on some level. We aren't.
Guess I should've said "dropping tear gas on the riot."
Anyhow, it seems to me Trump is going for a more moderate stance. He waved around a LGBT flag at the beggining of a rally around a month ago. Admitedly, there is a very good chance he was doing that just to gain their vote, or quiet their opposition a bit, but it's worth mentioning. He is most likely going to set conservatives on the Supreme Court, but I honestly doubt they'll take away gay marriage, in the same sense I don't see them taking away woman's right to vote, or something I've seen people think is going to happen.
I can understand everyone's concerns, but even if they are the oh so dreaded and homophobic thing people call, "conservatives," I have faith that they know how terrible of an idea taking away gay marriage would be. I have faith that they won't show up in court one day and say, "Well, gentelmen, lets get down to business. First thing on the agenda is taking marriage away from those godless homos!"
All I'm saying is that if something so drastic as getting rid of gay marriage was going to happen, the TellTale forums probably wouldn't be the only place I've ever so much as heard of it. There's a possibility I'm wrong, but some of the people in this thread seem to think it's set in stone that same-sex marriage is done for. Apologizing for something that hasn't and may not even happen in a non-joking way is stupid, in my opinion. It doesn't help anyone, and only spreads fearmongering.
Wasn't it a 3:2 vote? And Trump will be able to replace up to three members during his presidency?
He's already said he plans to get a ne… morew member on the supreme court in his first 100 days, and it's very unlikely he'll put in a very conservative supporter of gay marriage.
Also saying you're 'stomping on everyone's parade' implies we're happy about this on some level. We aren't.
When you're banned from visiting your lover at a hospital because you can't be considered kin, to say the least, that's not a 'card,' that's actually being a victim.
No one said it wasn't. But this sensationalist hysteria that the Trump administration is going to suddenly overturn marriage equality is not only the desperate attempts of a losing side to frame the other as a disaster before it's even begun, but it's downright disingenuous and cruel to the people now getting up-in-arms about it.
It would also be self sabotage since Trump is already absurdly unpopular among millennials and the media--both of whom are demographically, huge proponents of gay marriage--this would tear their ties for good.
Despite this, Trump is probably the most pro-gay candidate in Republican history. He's outright stated his support for the LGBT community, and he wants to curb immigration from those who see it as a unsuitable lifestyle. Yet, this is the spin. This is all we're getting. This, and the KKK, of course. For all the talk of how Trump is exploiting people's fears, just look around at what is happening now. The hypocrisy is palpable.
When you're banned from visiting your lover at a hospital because you can't be considered kin, to say the least, that's not a 'card,' that's actually being a victim.
Fine, I generally agree with what you're saying. I don't think Trump is going to overturn gay marriage and I think people are overreacting to his election overall.
But what I'm responding to is the OP saying "stop playing the victim card... You call them horrible people against equality when all they do is stand up for their own beleifs like you do." Maybe I'm making too many implications, but assuming that being against gay marriage is simply 'standing up for their beliefs,' as though we're just referring to speech and then phrasing any opposition as 'playing the victim card' and 'whining,' is irresponsibly dismissive and demeaning.
No one said it wasn't. But this sensationalist hysteria that the Trump administration is going to suddenly overturn marriage equality is not… more only the desperate attempts of a losing side to frame the other as a disaster before it's even begun, but it's downright disingenuous and cruel to the people now getting up-in-arms about it.
It would also be self sabotage since Trump is already absurdly unpopular among millennials and the media--both of whom are demographically, huge proponents of gay marriage--this would tear their ties for good.
Despite this, Trump is probably the most pro-gay candidate in Republican history. He's outright stated his support for the LGBT community, and he wants to curb immigration from those who see it as a unsuitable lifestyle. Yet, this is the spin. This is all we're getting. This, and the KKK, of course. For all the talk of how Trump is exploiting people's fears, just look around at what is happening now. The hypocrisy is palpable.
And it's dangerous, too.
It still completely confuses me how people think they have any right to decide whether two consenting and of legal age couples should get married. It is up to them! When are people going to realize that?!?!?!?!?
Fair enough, I apologise if I came across as abrasive or challenging, I did not mean to.
As for what @PikabrawlerGamez originally said, it was a bit dismissive and demeaning, but it was an absolutely necessary correction, I thought, to the current discourse in this thread--current discourse everywhere really.
But I don't think we have any more grounds for disagreement here, so it's all good.
Fine, I generally agree with what you're saying. I don't think Trump is going to overturn gay marriage and I think people are overreacting t… moreo his election overall.
But what I'm responding to is the OP saying "stop playing the victim card... You call them horrible people against equality when all they do is stand up for their own beleifs like you do." Maybe I'm making too many implications, but assuming that being against gay marriage is simply 'standing up for their beliefs,' as though we're just referring to speech and then phrasing any opposition as 'playing the victim card' and 'whining,' is irresponsibly dismissive and demeaning.
There's also the possibility that America is going to lose allot of it's allies and gain more enemies - since Trump's policies are going to have negative effects on the economy of other countries as well as be largely different from the moral and political views of other countries, there might be a war with America and a good part of the rest of the world - although that would largely depend on Trump himself. Either way, whoever is elected, war is possible.
If you think the protesters are bad now, just wait till this happens. Things are going to get bad quick.
All those people who voted for … moretrump because they "didn't want a war with Russia" are going to have to shift their concerns because there's going to be a war with ourselves at this rate.
Are you gonna take the risk of putting your money where your mouth is? I don't think people are afraid of marriage equality being taken away solely on the basis of assumptions. Trump has already stated that he believes Gay Marriage should've been voted for by the people and not be decided by the Supreme Court, Mike Pence himself is anti-LGBT, he is VP and believes electric shock therapy is going to somehow 'cure' a sexuality. Plus, conservative judges, more often than not, do not support marriage equality - as they often hold traditional values (such as only a man and a woman should get married).
All of this is just assuming. It's not factual. Do you know how massive the outcry would be? Especially in today's world? It's already been legalized and it's going to stay that way.
All of this is just assuming. It's not factual. Do you know how massive the outcry would be? Especially in today's world? It's already been legalized and it's going to stay that way.
He is clearly doing things like holding up that banner to pander to the lgbtq community, just like Hillary did. He has spoken out against the supreme court's decision in the past, and has said he wants to put very conservative justices on the court.
Yeah, just look at how people are reacting now? It would be a thousand times worse if something like this happened. Whatever Pence believed … moreor currently believes, he's not the president. He's not on the Supreme Court. He was an extreme counter balance to Trump because, Trump isn't very conservative. He speaks it like a second language because he is, at best, an independent playing a Republican.
Trump said he supported the LGBTQ community here.
And here's a picture:
I don't personally believe he's a particularly strong ally for the LGBTQ community, but I know for a fact he's not an enemy of yours (though he does want to suspend the immigration of people who are).
Give him a chance. Give his administration a chance. It hasn't even begun yet. But one thing is a guarantee, they need to keep the peace. They need to remain popular within public perception, and at least try to placate the media.
To that end, upholding marriage eq… [view original content]
Standing up for beliefs isn't inherently good is it? Would you praise, I don't know, Robert Mugabe for standing up for his beliefs? Surely what those beliefs are matters? Otherwise we'd be praising ISIS for standing up for what they believe in.
It's less about Trump himself though and more about the justices he will put on the supreme court. And he has said he wants to put very conservative justices on the court.
Gay marriage was only passed 3:2. If 1 or 2 more conservatives are put on it then it can easily be overturned, and people will try.
Also, as with practically all of Trump's policies, one moment he has said one thing, the other he has said something different. He has said, a few months ago, that he is considering trying to appeal same sex marriage, and also trans rights to, for example, change the gender on their passport, so I think labelling him as pro lgbtq is a bit excessive.
I also think saying he is pro-lgbtq because h wants to stop muslims entering the country is excessive - firstly a hell of a lot of americans are homophobic and he hasn't made any comments about combating that, and so it seems hypocritical to suggest that the block on immigration will bv done to help lgbtq people be away from those who disagree with their 'lifestyle'. And secondly the vast majority of violence against lgbtq people in america is not done by muslims, so I question exactly what he thinks this will change in those terms. Lastly it's not as if he's been saying 'we are a pro-lgbtq country and so we don't want to allow people to live here if they don't support this' - the ban on muslim immigration is being done for many reasons but I doubt that is one when he has shied away from combating the home-grown homophobia.
No one said it wasn't. But this sensationalist hysteria that the Trump administration is going to suddenly overturn marriage equality is not… more only the desperate attempts of a losing side to frame the other as a disaster before it's even begun, but it's downright disingenuous and cruel to the people now getting up-in-arms about it.
It would also be self sabotage since Trump is already absurdly unpopular among millennials and the media--both of whom are demographically, huge proponents of gay marriage--this would tear their ties for good.
Despite this, Trump is probably the most pro-gay candidate in Republican history. He's outright stated his support for the LGBT community, and he wants to curb immigration from those who see it as a unsuitable lifestyle. Yet, this is the spin. This is all we're getting. This, and the KKK, of course. For all the talk of how Trump is exploiting people's fears, just look around at what is happening now. The hypocrisy is palpable.
And it's dangerous, too.
Standing up for beliefs isn't inherently good is it? Would you praise, I don't know, Robert Mugabe for standing up for his beliefs? Surely what those beliefs are matters? Otherwise we'd be praising ISIS for standing up for what they believe in.
Yeah, just look at how people are reacting now? It would be a thousand times worse if something like this happened. Whatever Pence believed … moreor currently believes, he's not the president. He's not on the Supreme Court. He was an extreme counter balance to Trump because, Trump isn't very conservative. He speaks it like a second language because he is, at best, an independent playing a Republican.
Trump said he supported the LGBTQ community here.
And here's a picture:
I don't personally believe he's a particularly strong ally for the LGBTQ community, but I know for a fact he's not an enemy of yours (though he does want to suspend the immigration of people who are).
Give him a chance. Give his administration a chance. It hasn't even begun yet. But one thing is a guarantee, they need to keep the peace. They need to remain popular within public perception, and at least try to placate the media.
To that end, upholding marriage eq… [view original content]
It's less about Trump himself though and more about the justices he will put on the supreme court. And he has said he wants to put very cons… moreervative justices on the court.
Gay marriage was only passed 3:2. If 1 or 2 more conservatives are put on it then it can easily be overturned, and people will try.
Also, as with practically all of Trump's policies, one moment he has said one thing, the other he has said something different. He has said, a few months ago, that he is considering trying to appeal same sex marriage, and also trans rights to, for example, change the gender on their passport, so I think labelling him as pro lgbtq is a bit excessive.
I also think saying he is pro-lgbtq because h wants to stop muslims entering the country is excessive - firstly a hell of a lot of americans are homophobic and he hasn't made any comments about combating that, and so it seems hypocritical to suggest that the block on immigration will bv don… [view original content]
Comments
All of this is just assuming. It's not factual. Do you know how massive the outcry would be? Especially in today's world? It's already been legalized and it's going to stay that way.
Yeah, just look at how people are reacting now? It would be a thousand times worse if something like this happened. Whatever Pence believed or currently believes, he's not the president. He's not on the Supreme Court. He was an extreme counter balance to Trump because, Trump isn't very conservative. He speaks it like a second language because he is, at best, an independent playing a Republican.
Trump said he supported the LGBTQ community here.
And here's a picture:
I don't personally believe he's a particularly strong ally for the LGBTQ community, but I know for a fact he's not an enemy of yours (though he does want to suspend the immigration of people who are).
Give him a chance. Give his administration a chance. It hasn't even begun yet. But one thing is a guarantee, they need to keep the peace. They need to remain popular within public perception, and at least try to placate the media.
To that end, upholding marriage equality is a must. And they know that. At worst, it's relegated to a state-by-state decision, but I'm confidant it won't even come to that.
Though if it does, I'll stand with you (among millions of others, I assure you) in opposition of the call. Until then, quit fearmongering.
Oh my god, marry me?
Unless you're a man, of course, because we're against that stuff by default apparently.
Guess I should've said "dropping tear gas on the riot."
Anyhow, it seems to me Trump is going for a more moderate stance. He waved around a LGBT flag at the beggining of a rally around a month ago. Admitedly, there is a very good chance he was doing that just to gain their vote, or quiet their opposition a bit, but it's worth mentioning. He is most likely going to set conservatives on the Supreme Court, but I honestly doubt they'll take away gay marriage, in the same sense I don't see them taking away woman's right to vote, or something I've seen people think is going to happen.
I can understand everyone's concerns, but even if they are the oh so dreaded and homophobic thing people call, "conservatives," I have faith that they know how terrible of an idea taking away gay marriage would be. I have faith that they won't show up in court one day and say, "Well, gentelmen, lets get down to business. First thing on the agenda is taking marriage away from those godless homos!"
All I'm saying is that if something so drastic as getting rid of gay marriage was going to happen, the TellTale forums probably wouldn't be the only place I've ever so much as heard of it. There's a possibility I'm wrong, but some of the people in this thread seem to think it's set in stone that same-sex marriage is done for. Apologizing for something that hasn't and may not even happen in a non-joking way is stupid, in my opinion. It doesn't help anyone, and only spreads fearmongering.
When you're banned from visiting your lover at a hospital because you can't be considered kin, to say the least, that's not a 'card,' that's actually being a victim.
No one said it wasn't. But this sensationalist hysteria that the Trump administration is going to suddenly overturn marriage equality is not only the desperate attempts of a losing side to frame the other as a disaster before it's even begun, but it's downright disingenuous and cruel to the people now getting up-in-arms about it.
It would also be self sabotage since Trump is already absurdly unpopular among millennials and the media--both of whom are demographically, huge proponents of gay marriage--this would tear their ties for good.
Despite this, Trump is probably the most pro-gay candidate in Republican history. He's outright stated his support for the LGBT community, and he wants to curb immigration from those who see it as a unsuitable lifestyle. Yet, this is the spin. This is all we're getting. This, and the KKK, of course. For all the talk of how Trump is exploiting people's fears, just look around at what is happening now. The hypocrisy is palpable.
And it's dangerous, too.
Fine, I generally agree with what you're saying. I don't think Trump is going to overturn gay marriage and I think people are overreacting to his election overall.
But what I'm responding to is the OP saying "stop playing the victim card... You call them horrible people against equality when all they do is stand up for their own beleifs like you do." Maybe I'm making too many implications, but assuming that being against gay marriage is simply 'standing up for their beliefs,' as though we're just referring to speech and then phrasing any opposition as 'playing the victim card' and 'whining,' is irresponsibly dismissive and demeaning.
It still completely confuses me how people think they have any right to decide whether two consenting and of legal age couples should get married. It is up to them! When are people going to realize that?!?!?!?!?
Fair enough, I apologise if I came across as abrasive or challenging, I did not mean to.
As for what @PikabrawlerGamez originally said, it was a bit dismissive and demeaning, but it was an absolutely necessary correction, I thought, to the current discourse in this thread--current discourse everywhere really.
But I don't think we have any more grounds for disagreement here, so it's all good.
There's also the possibility that America is going to lose allot of it's allies and gain more enemies - since Trump's policies are going to have negative effects on the economy of other countries as well as be largely different from the moral and political views of other countries, there might be a war with America and a good part of the rest of the world - although that would largely depend on Trump himself. Either way, whoever is elected, war is possible.
Are you gonna take the risk of putting your money where your mouth is? I don't think people are afraid of marriage equality being taken away solely on the basis of assumptions. Trump has already stated that he believes Gay Marriage should've been voted for by the people and not be decided by the Supreme Court, Mike Pence himself is anti-LGBT, he is VP and believes electric shock therapy is going to somehow 'cure' a sexuality. Plus, conservative judges, more often than not, do not support marriage equality - as they often hold traditional values (such as only a man and a woman should get married).
Trump has said he wants to put very conservative justices on the court. It is not an assumption to think he won't put liberal justices on it.
He is clearly doing things like holding up that banner to pander to the lgbtq community, just like Hillary did. He has spoken out against the supreme court's decision in the past, and has said he wants to put very conservative justices on the court.
Standing up for beliefs isn't inherently good is it? Would you praise, I don't know, Robert Mugabe for standing up for his beliefs? Surely what those beliefs are matters? Otherwise we'd be praising ISIS for standing up for what they believe in.
It's less about Trump himself though and more about the justices he will put on the supreme court. And he has said he wants to put very conservative justices on the court.
Gay marriage was only passed 3:2. If 1 or 2 more conservatives are put on it then it can easily be overturned, and people will try.
Also, as with practically all of Trump's policies, one moment he has said one thing, the other he has said something different. He has said, a few months ago, that he is considering trying to appeal same sex marriage, and also trans rights to, for example, change the gender on their passport, so I think labelling him as pro lgbtq is a bit excessive.
I also think saying he is pro-lgbtq because h wants to stop muslims entering the country is excessive - firstly a hell of a lot of americans are homophobic and he hasn't made any comments about combating that, and so it seems hypocritical to suggest that the block on immigration will bv done to help lgbtq people be away from those who disagree with their 'lifestyle'. And secondly the vast majority of violence against lgbtq people in america is not done by muslims, so I question exactly what he thinks this will change in those terms. Lastly it's not as if he's been saying 'we are a pro-lgbtq country and so we don't want to allow people to live here if they don't support this' - the ban on muslim immigration is being done for many reasons but I doubt that is one when he has shied away from combating the home-grown homophobia.
Standing up for your beliefs isn't inherently bad either.
I'm sorry, but his face in that picture
it just looks like he's thinking "why the fuck am I holding this"
...
...