Bonnie and Nick would have been interesting. They could have bonded over their screw-ups. LOL Too bad he died so early in the story. I also thought Bonnie could have been a good foil to Kenny with her ability to sniff out "Alpha male horsesh!t"
Bonnie and Nick would have been interesting. They could have bonded over their screw-ups. LOL Too bad he died so early in the story. I also … morethought Bonnie could have been a good foil to Kenny with her ability to sniff out "Alpha male horsesh!t"
How old do you think she is?
I don't understand it either. I liked him ok. He had a decent background and relationships with Pete and Luke that felt natural and understandable. He absolutely had more depth and breadth than Mike or Reggie. But he was like a grown-up Ben to me. Ben had one outstanding scene that was determinant, and so did Nick. Other than that neither of them grew or evolved as characters.
I cannot for the life of me comprehend Nick and his abnormally large fan base/popularity. Every single other character I can at least somewh… moreat grasp the justifications of why they are likeable, even if taken to extreme extents: Ben, Kenny, Clementine, Luke, Jane, Sarah, etc. But Nick is such an anomaly that baffles me. To me, he seems like almost everyone else in the cabin group: a character with an interesting backstory that didn't really reach their maximum potential as a character.
Can someone who is a fan of Nick or at least understands his character legitimately explain this to me? What do you see in Nick's character that you don't see in anyone else?
I think it's because they enjoyed Clementine as a lovable little 9-year-old girl rather than a badass 11-year-old girl who can kick down doors or use knives instead of guns
I think it's because they enjoyed Clementine as a lovable little 9-year-old girl rather than a badass 11-year-old girl who can kick down doors or use knives instead of guns
I also didn't really get into Nick initially, but I've since done some digging to attempt to understand. Basically, I believe those who really like him really identified with his dilemma and felt for him once they understood his mindset. It definitely helps that his character arc was reminiscent of those in Season 1 in that it developed as the story progressed rather than progressing the story like with Kenny in the same season. While I won't say he's a favorite of mine, I can clearly see why people really love him and I agree that he definitely shouldn't have been forgotten about the way he was.
Come to think of it, I should probably my question about Jane here if it hasn't been answered yet. Technically, they both belong in the general question thread, but whatever.
I cannot for the life of me comprehend Nick and his abnormally large fan base/popularity. Every single other character I can at least somewh… moreat grasp the justifications of why they are likeable, even if taken to extreme extents: Ben, Kenny, Clementine, Luke, Jane, Sarah, etc. But Nick is such an anomaly that baffles me. To me, he seems like almost everyone else in the cabin group: a character with an interesting backstory that didn't really reach their maximum potential as a character.
Can someone who is a fan of Nick or at least understands his character legitimately explain this to me? What do you see in Nick's character that you don't see in anyone else?
I don't understand it either. I liked him ok. He had a decent background and relationships with Pete and Luke that felt natural and understa… morendable. He absolutely had more depth and breadth than Mike or Reggie. But he was like a grown-up Ben to me. Ben had one outstanding scene that was determinant, and so did Nick. Other than that neither of them grew or evolved as characters.
Michael Madsen (the unenthused gentleman who played Carver, another unenthused gentleman) is not a good voice actor or actor period, and should stick to being an alcoholic who was in a fantastic film once upon a time...
And played the best psychopath when he was a mid-30 newly alcoholic discovering dude.
Okay, since this hasn't been answer in my question thread, I might as well take @Davissons's example and post it here.
Alrighty Janiacs/anyone, help me out here: What are her redeeming qualities(in any) and/or likable traits that make you like her despite her faults and wrongdoings?
>
Funny to see that no one answered this despite all the previous derails comparing/contrasting her to Kenny.
Michael Madsen (the unenthused gentleman who played Carver, another unenthused gentleman) is not a good voice actor or actor period, and sho… moreuld stick to being an alcoholic who was in a fantastic film once upon a time...
And played the best psychopath when he was a mid-30 newly alcoholic discovering dude.
Bonnie and Nick would have been interesting. They could have bonded over their screw-ups. LOL Too bad he died so early in the story. I also … morethought Bonnie could have been a good foil to Kenny with her ability to sniff out "Alpha male horsesh!t"
How old do you think she is?
It's really weird for me to see you argue really deep and complex topics and character motivations, while at the same time commenting on characters' superficial attractiveness. Not that you can't do both, it just surprises me from time to time.
I remember I think you said once that Sarita was too chubby for you? Completely blew my mind because I can't really see her as chubby at all.
Mmm...I suppose, given one of my previous topics. Then again, considering Jane and Carley tend to generally be considered at the top, there is some established consensus to go by. And that consensus says that Rebecca looks ...odd.
I am far from a Janiac and far prefer other characters, but I still I say there are some things I appreciated about her. She wasn't completely heartless - she did think about Rebecca and Luke from time to time (despite her callousness) and does genuinely try to help Sarah from the deck and is remorseful that she couldn't afterwards. I didn't want to blame her for that, or for leaving. Asking her to try - and fail - to save Sarah was basically asking her to relive her painful memory of Jaime, and I appreciated that she was willing to do that for Clem.
Other things I appreciated: her trying to keep Clem alive and in a way, trying to keep the group together. She wanted medicine for them, helped them in the fire fight, helped Clem from the lake, showed her tricks to stay alive, joked and bonded with the group around the fire, tried to stand up for arvo against Kenny when she found he wasn't lying about the supplies, and was practical in wanting a sure bet to find baby formula for AJ at Howe's. I guess it shows she was still thinking about the safety of others including AJ, even though locking him up in a car in the middle of a blizzard doesn't exactly earn her a gaurdian of the year award either.
Okay, since this hasn't been answer in my question thread, I might as well take @Davissons's example and post it here.
Alrighty Janiac… mores/anyone, help me out here: What are her redeeming qualities(in any) and/or likable traits that make you like her despite her faults and wrongdoings?
>
Funny to see that no one answered this despite all the previous derails comparing/contrasting her to Kenny.
First of all, there's a whole thread dedicated to this topic. Lot of good explenations in there. I sugest you look at sialark's comment.
Then, we got this wall of text, made by me, responding to some of your dislikes of her character. It's more of a justification of her actions, but if you read in between the lines, you'll find some positives. Namely, the 'What Jane says and stand for' vs 'What she actually decides and does'. This shows that despite having her own ideals of being a loner and avoiding burdens, most of the time she is on screen, she's actually going against those same ideals and helping people (who she doesn't even know!) and carrying burdens. Examples of this is putting Clem and Sarah's life ahead of herself on the save Sarah scenario, despite having earlier said that saving her wasn't worth it; voluntarily going down to save Sarah on the observation deck, despite believing that the girl was too far gone; sticking with our group, despite thinking that being alone is way safer; etc. etc. the comment covers it all.
Now, adding to those two up there, I want to throw out what I think of her right now and what I think makes her likeable. First thing to note is that I don't demonize Jane's actions as much as you and others do. I don't picture 'she was reluctant about saving Sarah' as 'She murdered Sarah after hours of torture' as some of you make it out to be. Among other situations where people exagerate on what she does to make it seem terribly evil.
Secondly, here are some general compliments to her person(ality). Jane is:
Reliable; unlike most characters, she does things with Clementine instead of just ordering her around. They both go look out for Sarah and Luke. They both go to the observation deck an dtry to get it open (and unlike Mike and Bonnie, she just doesn't stand there still, she tries to pick the lock, and is successful. Aside from Luke, no other character did this.
Knowledgable; I think there's no denying that Jane is a good survivor. She has them fighting skills, the rational, cold headed thinking and knows some pretty rad trick on how to kill zombies and how to you them (cow catcher, blood smearing, etc. etc.)
Unifying; for as much as it may seem otherwise, Jane is a team player when she wants to. Had Kenny not existed (god, wouldn't that be good!) and I wouldn't doubt that she would soon take the role of some sort of 'democratic leader' or 'uniter' (like, hammering out some logical plans, presenting them to the group and ask what everyone thinks is best).
Honest(isssh); Jane doesn't play games (unless you're Kenny, of course...), at least not to someone she trusts or has no beef with (totally NOT Kenny!). She always speaks her mind about things when talking to Clementine and/or the group. Sarah, Clementine's best friend, may be a problem in the future? She won't stop speaking her mind just because they're close. Kenny, Clementine's master slaver, ahem, 'friend', is going nutty? She will claim that he's mad, despite Clementine's relationship with him.
Caring(isssh); for as much as people deny it, Jane felt connected with our group, otherwise, she wouldn't have stuck with us and came back after leaving. She wouldn't have tried to save Clem and Rebecca if she didn't care, she wouldn't have tried to steal from a kid if she didn't care, she wouldn't have attempted to save two people she barely knew is she didn't care, she wouldn't have come back and saved our group from the ambush if she didn't care, she wouldn't have asked Clem to try and bring Kenny back if she didn't care, she wouldn't have designed her plan to go to Howe's based on the fatc that there was formula for AJ there if she didn't care, she wouldn't have put the baby in a safe car nearby the rest stop with windows slightly open if she didn't care, she wouldn't have angaged in a fight with a nutcase if she didn't care, she wouldn't have risked her life on the ice lake for Clem if she didn't care... Boi, I can go on all day.
Thirdly, development as a person throught the last three (more like two) episodes. Here are a few examples.
Jane is against risking their lives for saving Sarah in the begining of the episode, but later, after seeing Clem's effort of trying to really save her, she does risk her life, this time voluntarily, for the same girl she gave up (kinda) on earlier on.
Jane leaves our group at the end of Amid The Ruins. An episode later, she comes back, saves us, admits that leaving was a mistake and claims that she'll try to make this one group work. That a very big change right there.
Jane and Luke bang. She then leaves him not wishing to pursue a relationship of whatever they though it was with him. Later on the episode she comes back, still reluctant to engage and get attached to him. She later does since Clemmy helps her. She gets devasted by his death.
Jane shows worry for AJ. She sees it as some kind of liability by the begining of the fourth episode. Later that episode, she is the person who contributes the most to the baby's save labour. An episode later, she is seen terrified with the idea of holding AJ. Later on she keeps expressing her worry for the baby's wellbeing when asking the group how many food the baby had before formulating a plan. Finally, Jane is seen holding AJ with no worry whatsoever a day later.
FInally, she confides in the player. Now this is a more personal good trait to me, but I do like characters who do this. It's just like Lilly, they both seemed ok with opening up or venting to the PC. That's neat.
On this note, she has great backstory. 10/10
Okay, since this hasn't been answer in my question thread, I might as well take @Davissons's example and post it here.
Alrighty Janiac… mores/anyone, help me out here: What are her redeeming qualities(in any) and/or likable traits that make you like her despite her faults and wrongdoings?
>
Funny to see that no one answered this despite all the previous derails comparing/contrasting her to Kenny.
I don't understand it either. I liked him ok. He had a decent background and relationships with Pete and Luke that felt natural and understa… morendable. He absolutely had more depth and breadth than Mike or Reggie. But he was like a grown-up Ben to me. Ben had one outstanding scene that was determinant, and so did Nick. Other than that neither of them grew or evolved as characters.
Worry not. I gotcha covered.
First of all, there's a whole thread dedicated to this topic. Lot of good explenations in there. I sugest yo… moreu look at sialark's comment.
Then, we got this wall of text, made by me, responding to some of your dislikes of her character. It's more of a justification of her actions, but if you read in between the lines, you'll find some positives. Namely, the 'What Jane says and stand for' vs 'What she actually decides and does'. This shows that despite having her own ideals of being a loner and avoiding burdens, most of the time she is on screen, she's actually going against those same ideals and helping people (who she doesn't even know!) and carrying burdens. Examples of this is putting Clem and Sarah's life ahead of herself on the save Sarah scenario, despite having earlier said that saving her wasn't worth it; voluntarily going down to save Sarah on the observation deck, despite believing that the girl was to… [view original content]
S2 Clem barely has much of a personality and the decisions she makes just feel like shallow window dressing and don't feel very organic or natural for her character at all.
I think it's because they enjoyed Clementine as a lovable little 9-year-old girl rather than a badass 11-year-old girl who can kick down doors or use knives instead of guns
Well..lets see...Jane never tried to beat a kid to death....Jane never forced marched people to a place that was sure to have what they needed only for it to not have said item and fall into a well of self-pity.
It is interesting that people will bring up her taking Arvo's gun as being partly to blame for the events that happened afterwards, but are totally fine absolving Kenny of blame for how the Stranger ordeal played out by assessing blame onto Clementine...(should have known better). That was Kenny's fault....Lee and Clem and Lilly did not want to take that stuff.
Jane is a survivor...despite Kenny having to be saved by Sarita ...Jane was doing ok...tried to help Clem understand the difference between blind loyalty and realistic survival. Jane is willing to listen to ideas...unlike Kenny the super genius. She proved she was willing to go help someone even if in her opinion that person was a detriment.
RANT ON..
However the issue is not merely a Kenny or Jane Issue. It is a bad writing issue. Season 2 was not very well thought out and they changed direction in the season...so there is no coherent story that if you look at it..makes any sense.
1 Clementine is alone after absolutely horrible things happen. Omid shot through the heart by some random kid who looked actually well cared for. Christa probably killed...still really unknown. Chased by men with dubious intentions. Almost drowns...gets bit by a dog...dropped when Luke sees her bite...almost shot. Thrown in a shed without medical help. Breaks out of shed and into Cabin...gets supplies...performs surgery on herself(LIKE A BOSS)...gets attacked...kills walker...invited to stay with group..has to decide who to run from walkers with. HOLY FUCKING SHIT...ever hear of pacing? This episode is so full of things it stops being dramatic and turns into a ludicrous parody of a teen zombie flick. All this is in Episode 1 Buckle up because here comes Episode 2
2 Clementine gets back to the Cabin...all the adults..INCLUDING THE PREGNANT WOMAN go looking for everyone else...leave the New Girl in charge of Sarah...trusting group...not like they are on the run or anything and have to be careful. Sarah finds a camera..UNDER THE HOUSE...this girl who is more a home body..just happens to pick that day to find a magical working Polaroid camera...this makes no..oh fuck it.....She also finds a gun?!! Someone is at the door...lol..wonder who? Wow so he leaves because he was alone and had no backup....he was walking alone? Episode one bloodbath that they found seems to indicate that does not make a damn lick of sense...also..why not radio for backup? So the group leaves the cabin and hike 5 or so days to the base of a small mountain...they first have to cross a railroad bridge. Meet a nice guy...who Nick shoots...somehow missing Luke and Clementine....yet no one beats the shit out of Nick...sorry that makes no sense...if you were standing between Nick and Matthew and Nick fires....you probably shit yourself. At the small train station...Nick is sorry...Rebecca is hungry...this is the last bit of real character development we get for Alvin, Nick, Carlos and Bekka...let that sink in. Ok now up to the lodge...Clementine spots lights...noone talks about it seriously...even to the point of dismissing it later...I mean it is not like someone is chasing them right? So now we have found Kenny...never mind that Kenny and Clem were never tight....and forget the fact that Kenny killed Larry in front of her causing probable emotional damage...they hug...cause the writers decide to use Kenny as a crutch instead of actually building the cabin group into actual characters. Kenny got lucky...real lucky...well thanks for clearing that up. Kenny also seems to have forgotten that Lee had been bit and is aggro to the cabin group...not to worry Kenny..they will all be dead soon. Walter is so trusting...how has he and Matthew survived this long? Bonnie is such a biatch. Walkers drawn to fan...Nick gets killed or doesn't does not matter...he is just extra baggage at this point...Carver shows up...Kenny gets Walter killed(his fans do no care) may or may not get Alvin Killed(Once again his fans will gloss over this) Carlos lol...man those fingers...Carver is a bad guy...cannot wait to see how he gets his by the end of the season.
3 Worst episode in THE WALKING DEAD...almost inclined to just say hell with it and skip to episode 4...but I will not. Carver is good at slapping the shit out of 11 year olds. Kenny not satisfied with getting people killed in EP 2 wants to go all suicidal and drag everyone along when the truck stops(Why in this game is there no option to slap the shit out of Kenny) Kenny gets his head bumped...suicide pact with reluctant pals does not happen. ALRIGHT Payoff for the 400 days....see many of the characters..I am pumped to see them help us.(LOL) Forced labor for a better tomorrow sounds good...lol we have to get outta here. Reggie is nice...lets fuck his chances to get outta jail. Quiet Sarah decides to talk during Carver talk...a man she is afraid of...seems logical. Damn now that was a slap...hope I can slap her. Ok reloading magazines...load 4 bullets sent to new job with swanky ass new jacket. Picking Berries...nothing could be easier. Well that escalated quickly..sorry Reggie, you just didn't get it...the writers really need to drive hime how mean Carver is... Kenny being charming as ever...Walker attack....I killed more walkers than Mike and Kenny. Troy my hero!!!! Luke!!...how the hell did you get past all the walkers and then into the comic book shop? Meet Bill...so we are alike..yeah sure...so maybe we will get to know this Carver and flesh out his character during the rest of the season. Guess who is sent for the radios? Glad to see moral is good even though the boss seems prone to murdering employees. Well that went smoothly...glad the writers did not try to inject some tension in that. Wait I have to take it..Kenny this plan can we talk it ...no...ok. Asked Bonnie to let me go to Luke..I feel that I can trust her...she will never do anything to harm me I am sure. Luke you twit. Wow got shit slapped outta me..twice in 2 days...Kenny taking a beating like a man. OK so we are going to escape...Jane says hey lets wear walker guts(This has to be a fetish thing) Need to turn speakers on....get pistol from Carver's desk...(At this point I am sorta thinking..huh..we are spending rest of game on run from Carver's group) Carver has the group of incompetents covered..I shoot him..kenny punches him. Kenny gets medieval on Carver's ass(So the main Antagonist is gone by episode 3) Troy gets lead poisoning of the dick..his screams serve to distract walkers so that group can get away...Carlos gets killed(so long NPC we never got to know) Sarah screams...walkers go...HMMMM Luke and Nick go off to get Sarah...Sarita is getting bit...you can kill walker or chop off her hand...GREAT A CHANCE TO SAVE SOMEONE..MY CHOICE COUNTS!!!
NOPE She dies anyway(So long NPC we hardly knew ye) ...Kenny is either really upset with you or pissed at you. Jane helps you and Bekka get past the herd...off to Parkers Run..Civil War Memorial Kenny is upset and Sarah and Luke and Nick are still missing.. Nick is dead (LOL) Jane teaches Clem a trick(The writers forgot that Clem did the trick in episode 2 on the bridge) The Sarah issue...it is here where I do my best to save Sarah...we escape...yell at Jane...writers miss a chance to actually build a character arc between Jane and Sarah. I convince Kenny to get his head out of ass and be helpful...it is unusual that while you are talking to him..he relates nothing about Sarita...nope just how life is unfair to him and what a shitty husband and father he was...we already knew this from season 1 Kenny...how about some info on your newly dead girl...no? Ok off to see about finding anything useful....WE FOUND A TOWN..A TOWN.....Jane is going to pick a lock with a nail file...I call shenanigans. Someone is coming...we hide....he pulls a gun on Clem...Jane jumps him...send him on his way...keep the gun..because...screw him he pulled a gun on me. Clem goes back..talks to Luke...Luke goes to do kissing stuff with Jane...I go find Mike and Bonnie(Ok Mike and Bonnie..to me are the victims of bad writing...throughout this episode and 5 they seem to really care about the Baby and Clem...so in episode 5 when they leave with all the food....RAGE at the bad script not them) Hehehe eat the shit outta that raccoon. Walkers attack...get to the deck...Luke and Jane are done with kissing stuff...recriminations have to wait..we have to hold off a jillion walkers. Deck collapses....Sarah dies(NPC HEAVEN GOT A NEW ANGEL) Well that sucked. Jane leaves...she is a loner..so sure. Luke thinks that a roll in the hay is a commitment lol. Kenny is right to rebuke Luke..get your shit together Luke. Rebekka looks bad...but I know the writers will not kill off any more Cabin group. Next scene she dies...and we are left with a gunfight at close quarters...there will be many deaths on both sides.
NOPE Apparently Russians are horrible at shooting....Kenny much like his role to the writers is superman...holds em off until Arvo goes to see to his newly dead sister after Clementine shoots her zombie ass....Jane saves Kenny. Now we walk with Baby AJ to Arvo's house...its cold..man if only there was a town close by. The walk in punched up a bit by having kenny punch the shit out of Arvo. (Once again..why is there no slap the shit outta Kenny option?) The Best Scene in the Season...other than the Lee Dream is the campfire. For once..the writers have found that the strength of the Walking dead is that you should have personal human moments for reflection and getting to know one another...in fact this scene is so genius I am willing to consider the possibility that a Janitor wrote it in one night and the Voice Director did not know any better. In this scene you like the characters I even love Kenny when he is not being a nutcase...but it is over too soon and like a fart in the wind..it is gone...like LUKE....dead in a lake...Cabin group...FATALITY. So lets address the betrayal again...it made no sense to the characters as presented...take all the food let baby die and 11 year old...just because we hate Kenny. Really writers? Now the Jane/Kenny fight....bad plotting. Who signed off on this...were they just tired and wanted to be done?
Rant off.
And despite all these glaringly obvious issues..TWD s2 is still better than most games plotwise that came out that year.
Okay, since this hasn't been answer in my question thread, I might as well take @Davissons's example and post it here.
Alrighty Janiac… mores/anyone, help me out here: What are her redeeming qualities(in any) and/or likable traits that make you like her despite her faults and wrongdoings?
>
Funny to see that no one answered this despite all the previous derails comparing/contrasting her to Kenny.
Wow! Three extensive responses in a day here vs. zero responses (besides my own) over 2+ weeks in the question thread! Thank you all!
As I stated in one of my more recent topics, I don't hate Jane quite as much I as I when I first joined this community(Who here remembers my first topic/post? Good times!). I still do hate her, since it's kinda hard to ignore that the main, legitimate reasons I did are still very viable, but I can keep a cool head far more often than before and have even sat through several cutscenes centered around her( including her hard to tolerate one-sided and quite frankly wasted "rivalry" with Sarah) without feeling agitated by her very presence(it's surprising how ignore-able she is when everyone's around the campfire, which is right after the moment I decided I hated her; granted, I don't recall sitting through said moment itself, though). I've had time to realize that the extra loathing was due to various connotations and undertones that can be easily associated with her and, most importantly, the product of a series of very bad, mishandled, and downright sloppy writing decisions concerning her character. However, part of the reason she still easily falls into the hate category was because, try hard as I might've, I really couldn't think of anything likable or most importantly sympathetic about her that wasn't superficial or drowned out by baggage, so asking this question was meant to help me with that. Your answers are ...not very helpful in that regard, but maybe they can plant some seeds for thought later.
Okay, since this hasn't been answer in my question thread, I might as well take @Davissons's example and post it here.
Alrighty Janiac… mores/anyone, help me out here: What are her redeeming qualities(in any) and/or likable traits that make you like her despite her faults and wrongdoings?
>
Funny to see that no one answered this despite all the previous derails comparing/contrasting her to Kenny.
Okay, I hate to be that guy, but I suggest you copy and paste most/all of this into the "Thoughts on Season 2's Writing" thread and just erase everything that doesn't involve Jane in some way. I know that's not saying much coming from me, but I just can't assed to read through all of this after reading through the other two. Thank you, sugah!
Well..lets see...Jane never tried to beat a kid to death....Jane never forced marched people to a place that was sure to have what they need… moreed only for it to not have said item and fall into a well of self-pity.
It is interesting that people will bring up her taking Arvo's gun as being partly to blame for the events that happened afterwards, but are totally fine absolving Kenny of blame for how the Stranger ordeal played out by assessing blame onto Clementine...(should have known better). That was Kenny's fault....Lee and Clem and Lilly did not want to take that stuff.
Jane is a survivor...despite Kenny having to be saved by Sarita ...Jane was doing ok...tried to help Clem understand the difference between blind loyalty and realistic survival. Jane is willing to listen to ideas...unlike Kenny the super genius. She proved she was willing to go help someone even if in her opinion that person was a detriment.
RANT ON..
However the… [view original content]
I have an idea...you rewrite episode one....you do not have to put in all those choices...just make a coherent story...then I will do episode 2. Then we see what happens.
I have an idea...you rewrite episode one....you do not have to put in all those choices...just make a coherent story...then I will do episode 2. Then we see what happens.
If you ask me, Starved For Help's story is better than just about everything in the game, including stuff in S1
But that's just me, someo… morene who is definitely not biased towards episode 2 and definitely doesn't consider it the best episode of the entire series thus far.
Well, for what it's worth, I thought Mike was a pretty cool dude while Season 2 was still running. I even made him my Gravatar for a long ti… moreme, actually. So yeah, when he did a 180 in Episode 5, I was rather pissed because I actually liked him.
I was indifferent towards Bonnie throughout Season 2, I only started hating her when she had the nerve to blame Clementine for Luke's death and acted as if everyone always does what Clem says. Seriously, what a dumb thing to say, seeing as Clementine is for some reason the only one getting shit done in the entire group.
I have an idea...you rewrite episode one....you do not have to put in all those choices...just make a coherent story...then I will do episode 2. Then we see what happens.
I guess it's not so much an unpopular opinion but i just can't why Telltale decided to create Jane instead of bringing back Molly. Molly and Jane are such similar characters and even their backstory is pretty much the same. The only real difference is that the player actually have a reason to save Molly. The choice at the end became a no-brainer for me because Telltale have had 2 seasons of character development on Kenny while we knew Jane for less than 2 episodes.
I guess it's not so much an unpopular opinion but i just can't why Telltale decided to create Jane instead of bringing back Molly.
Because then there'd be two Season 1 characters hogging spotlight? Because they wanted an original character people were "guaranteed" to like by introducing a gimmick character halfway through who had practically nothing to do with the main plot itself instead of addressing the issues people had with the existing characters? Because they wanted to be able say Season 2 mattered by having a backup character over Luke for the final choice?
Molly and Jane are such similar characters and even their backstory is pretty much the same.
I'm actually writing a critique talking about that type of thing, even though the answer to your question is obvious.
The only real difference is that the player actually have a reason to save Molly.
I guess it's not so much an unpopular opinion but i just can't why Telltale decided to create Jane instead of bringing back Molly. Molly and… more Jane are such similar characters and even their backstory is pretty much the same. The only real difference is that the player actually have a reason to save Molly. The choice at the end became a no-brainer for me because Telltale have had 2 seasons of character development on Kenny while we knew Jane for less than 2 episodes.
I guess it's not so much an unpopular opinion but i just can't why Telltale decided to create Jane instead of bringing back Molly.
B… moreecause then there'd be two Season 1 characters hogging spotlight? Because they wanted an original character people were "guaranteed" to like by introducing a gimmick character halfway through who had practically nothing to do with the main plot itself instead of addressing the issues people had with the existing characters? Because they wanted to be able say Season 2 mattered by having a backup character over Luke for the final choice?
Molly and Jane are such similar characters and even their backstory is pretty much the same.
I'm actually writing a critique talking about that type of thing, even though the answer to your question is obvious.
The only real difference is that the player actually have a reason to save Molly.
And that would be because...?
Okay, I'll give you that one.Then again, I feel like Molly was intentionally trying to irk your nerves, whereas Jane doing it was because of her many condemning traits and due to sloppy writing decisions.
Comments
I liked season 2's version of Clementine and I didn't find her to be boring. Is this unpopular? IDK...
Bonnie and Nick would have been interesting. They could have bonded over their screw-ups. LOL Too bad he died so early in the story. I also thought Bonnie could have been a good foil to Kenny with her ability to sniff out "Alpha male horsesh!t"
How old do you think she is?
Probably around 25-30. (Am I way off?)
I don't understand it either. I liked him ok. He had a decent background and relationships with Pete and Luke that felt natural and understandable. He absolutely had more depth and breadth than Mike or Reggie. But he was like a grown-up Ben to me. Ben had one outstanding scene that was determinant, and so did Nick. Other than that neither of them grew or evolved as characters.
I agree, I don't see the problem with her season two version.
I think it's because they enjoyed Clementine as a lovable little 9-year-old girl rather than a badass 11-year-old girl who can kick down doors or use knives instead of guns
I never saw the problem with her kicking down that door.
It was an old (caravan?) door that probably hasn't been used in a long time and was probably rusted to shit.
Wouldn't a knife be easier for a kid to use then a gun, anyway?
I also didn't really get into Nick initially, but I've since done some digging to attempt to understand. Basically, I believe those who really like him really identified with his dilemma and felt for him once they understood his mindset. It definitely helps that his character arc was reminiscent of those in Season 1 in that it developed as the story progressed rather than progressing the story like with Kenny in the same season. While I won't say he's a favorite of mine, I can clearly see why people really love him and I agree that he definitely shouldn't have been forgotten about the way he was.
Come to think of it, I should probably my question about Jane here if it hasn't been answered yet. Technically, they both belong in the general question thread, but whatever.
I'd say in her late 20s or early-mid 30s, yes.
Which one was Nick's?
Michael Madsen (the unenthused gentleman who played Carver, another unenthused gentleman) is not a good voice actor or actor period, and should stick to being an alcoholic who was in a fantastic film once upon a time...
And played the best psychopath when he was a mid-30 newly alcoholic discovering dude.
Okay, since this hasn't been answer in my question thread, I might as well take @Davissons's example and post it here.
>
Your opinion makes me wonder why I came here tonight
and gives me the feeling that something ain't right
Dat rhyme tho.
Are clowns to the left of you?
Jokers to the right?
Where are you stuck at?
Come on now, Nick didn't die that early in the story...
his development did.
Ouch.
It's really weird for me to see you argue really deep and complex topics and character motivations, while at the same time commenting on characters' superficial attractiveness. Not that you can't do both, it just surprises me from time to time.
I remember I think you said once that Sarita was too chubby for you? Completely blew my mind because I can't really see her as chubby at all.
I don't think she looks odd or unattractive. She falls in my mind at around average.
I am far from a Janiac and far prefer other characters, but I still I say there are some things I appreciated about her. She wasn't completely heartless - she did think about Rebecca and Luke from time to time (despite her callousness) and does genuinely try to help Sarah from the deck and is remorseful that she couldn't afterwards. I didn't want to blame her for that, or for leaving. Asking her to try - and fail - to save Sarah was basically asking her to relive her painful memory of Jaime, and I appreciated that she was willing to do that for Clem.
Other things I appreciated: her trying to keep Clem alive and in a way, trying to keep the group together. She wanted medicine for them, helped them in the fire fight, helped Clem from the lake, showed her tricks to stay alive, joked and bonded with the group around the fire, tried to stand up for arvo against Kenny when she found he wasn't lying about the supplies, and was practical in wanting a sure bet to find baby formula for AJ at Howe's. I guess it shows she was still thinking about the safety of others including AJ, even though locking him up in a car in the middle of a blizzard doesn't exactly earn her a gaurdian of the year award either.
Worry not. I gotcha covered.
First of all, there's a whole thread dedicated to this topic. Lot of good explenations in there. I sugest you look at sialark's comment.
Then, we got this wall of text, made by me, responding to some of your dislikes of her character. It's more of a justification of her actions, but if you read in between the lines, you'll find some positives. Namely, the 'What Jane says and stand for' vs 'What she actually decides and does'. This shows that despite having her own ideals of being a loner and avoiding burdens, most of the time she is on screen, she's actually going against those same ideals and helping people (who she doesn't even know!) and carrying burdens. Examples of this is putting Clem and Sarah's life ahead of herself on the save Sarah scenario, despite having earlier said that saving her wasn't worth it; voluntarily going down to save Sarah on the observation deck, despite believing that the girl was too far gone; sticking with our group, despite thinking that being alone is way safer; etc. etc. the comment covers it all.
Now, adding to those two up there, I want to throw out what I think of her right now and what I think makes her likeable. First thing to note is that I don't demonize Jane's actions as much as you and others do. I don't picture 'she was reluctant about saving Sarah' as 'She murdered Sarah after hours of torture' as some of you make it out to be. Among other situations where people exagerate on what she does to make it seem terribly evil.
Secondly, here are some general compliments to her person(ality). Jane is:
Thirdly, development as a person throught the last three (more like two) episodes. Here are a few examples.
FInally, she confides in the player. Now this is a more personal good trait to me, but I do like characters who do this. It's just like Lilly, they both seemed ok with opening up or venting to the PC. That's neat.
On this note, she has great backstory. 10/10
Ben evolved, Nick didn't.
Eh...nah...too late.
S2 Clem barely has much of a personality and the decisions she makes just feel like shallow window dressing and don't feel very organic or natural for her character at all.
That's my thought process at least.
Well..lets see...Jane never tried to beat a kid to death....Jane never forced marched people to a place that was sure to have what they needed only for it to not have said item and fall into a well of self-pity.
It is interesting that people will bring up her taking Arvo's gun as being partly to blame for the events that happened afterwards, but are totally fine absolving Kenny of blame for how the Stranger ordeal played out by assessing blame onto Clementine...(should have known better). That was Kenny's fault....Lee and Clem and Lilly did not want to take that stuff.
Jane is a survivor...despite Kenny having to be saved by Sarita ...Jane was doing ok...tried to help Clem understand the difference between blind loyalty and realistic survival. Jane is willing to listen to ideas...unlike Kenny the super genius. She proved she was willing to go help someone even if in her opinion that person was a detriment.
RANT ON..
However the issue is not merely a Kenny or Jane Issue. It is a bad writing issue. Season 2 was not very well thought out and they changed direction in the season...so there is no coherent story that if you look at it..makes any sense.
Rant off.
And despite all these glaringly obvious issues..TWD s2 is still better than most games plotwise that came out that year.
Wow! Three extensive responses in a day here vs. zero responses (besides my own) over 2+ weeks in the question thread! Thank you all!
As I stated in one of my more recent topics, I don't hate Jane quite as much I as I when I first joined this community(Who here remembers my first topic/post? Good times!). I still do hate her, since it's kinda hard to ignore that the main, legitimate reasons I did are still very viable, but I can keep a cool head far more often than before and have even sat through several cutscenes centered around her( including her hard to tolerate one-sided and quite frankly wasted "rivalry" with Sarah) without feeling agitated by her very presence(it's surprising how ignore-able she is when everyone's around the campfire, which is right after the moment I decided I hated her; granted, I don't recall sitting through said moment itself, though). I've had time to realize that the extra loathing was due to various connotations and undertones that can be easily associated with her and, most importantly, the product of a series of very bad, mishandled, and downright sloppy writing decisions concerning her character. However, part of the reason she still easily falls into the hate category was because, try hard as I might've, I really couldn't think of anything likable or most importantly sympathetic about her that wasn't superficial or drowned out by baggage, so asking this question was meant to help me with that. Your answers are ...not very helpful in that regard, but maybe they can plant some seeds for thought later.
Okay, I hate to be that guy, but I suggest you copy and paste most/all of this into the "Thoughts on Season 2's Writing" thread and just erase everything that doesn't involve Jane in some way. I know that's not saying much coming from me, but I just can't assed to read through all of this after reading through the other two. Thank you, sugah!
Telltale TWD S2 should be written completely out of continuity.
Look, we understand that you don't like season two. But this is unnecessary.
I wouldn't mind a reboot myself.
I have an idea...you rewrite episode one....you do not have to put in all those choices...just make a coherent story...then I will do episode 2. Then we see what happens.
Honestly, Episode one is probably the episode I'd change the least, but neat idea anyway. I guess.
Episode 2 was one of the first things I've ever seen from Telltale, and it is what got me hooked.
I have the feeling that it was mostly the writers fault, I liked the characters themselves, but the writers for the last episode botched them.
Entirely different people writing different episodes, making it an incoherent mess?
No!! I liked season 2.
I guess it's not so much an unpopular opinion but i just can't why Telltale decided to create Jane instead of bringing back Molly. Molly and Jane are such similar characters and even their backstory is pretty much the same. The only real difference is that the player actually have a reason to save Molly. The choice at the end became a no-brainer for me because Telltale have had 2 seasons of character development on Kenny while we knew Jane for less than 2 episodes.
Because then there'd be two Season 1 characters hogging spotlight? Because they wanted an original character people were "guaranteed" to like by introducing a gimmick character halfway through who had practically nothing to do with the main plot itself instead of addressing the issues people had with the existing characters? Because they wanted to be able say Season 2 mattered by having a backup character over Luke for the final choice?
I'm actually writing a critique talking about that type of thing, even though the answer to your question is obvious.
And that would be because...?
Because she is not a complete bitch?