I didn't say the people are evil, I said communism in of itself is evil. Every time I our history communism has been tried it's just failed. That failure always brings with it suffering, poverty, death, starvation, little to no resources for those at the bottom (which happens to be all of the people). Communism, in theory, is a beautiful idea. It just never works. I mean, just look at the USSR, Vietnam, Venezuela, North Korea, Cuba, etc. (I know all of these countries happen to be socialism in its purist form). It's impossible to actually practice full on communism, but when people try... what happens is not too great.
Are the Kurds evil? In Rojava, they're starting down the path toward communism, while simultaneously taking on the lion's share of fighting… more against ISIS. There's more to the ideology than the deformed worker states of last century, though admittedly, they have poisoned the well somewhat.
I can't believe he's dead... FUCKING shit! Another socialist revolutionarian dead! I came to this thread looking for support, and I found Y… moreankees. He fought with the Che, goddamit, for the independience of Cuba from USA. He was a socialist, not a fake socialist like Stanlin, but a good one! All this Yankee shit is making me sick, using this fucking lenguage to express my opinions make me sick. THIS FUCKING WORLD IS MAKING ME SICK! it's like Latin America is falling appart. I'm truly scared.
I don't know man, countries like North Korea, China, SSSR, Cuba are/were just SO insanely pro human rights, totally not anti-democracy, totally not fucking crooked. Ever heard about the invasion of Czechoslovakia by the Soviets? Which also happened to be my birthplace? Guess you didn't, well let me tell you something. The dictatorship of a one political side, arrests and executions of political prisoners, censorship, Soviet army occupying our country and butchery of economy were really not that well received. Take a guess why?
Good, we finally coaxed some sources out of you.
I'm not rude or pig headed.
Your post on this and other threads, say otherwis… moree.
So your politifact is right and my degree in History and my old teacher that has a master degree are wrong, lol.
if if they led you to your conclusions about the trail of tears and your made up statistics about the Civil Rights Act of 1957, then yes, they haven't done you any favors. Also, I thought I just established in the previous post that your accusations about me only using politifact are a baseless and lame attempt to discredit my points. Why continue?
Come on man admit you're wrong and drop it. I'm un bias in my research.
Nah, I feel no need to concede defeat. But I'd be happy to stop interacting with you if you'd do me the same courtesy. I debate to learn new things and sharpen my own logic, and you aren't giving me many opportunities to do either. You evidently have a similar lack of respect for me, so we might as well end it.
Good, we finally coaxed some sources out of you.
I'm not rude or pig headed.
Your post on this and other threads, say otherwis… moree.
So your politifact is right and my degree in History and my old teacher that has a master degree are wrong, lol.
if if they led you to your conclusions about the trail of tears and your made up statistics about the Civil Rights Act of 1957, then yes, they haven't done you any favors. Also, I thought I just established in the previous post that your accusations about me only using politifact are a baseless and lame attempt to discredit my points. Why continue?
Come on man admit you're wrong and drop it. I'm un bias in my research.
Nah, I feel no need to concede defeat. But I'd be happy to stop interacting with you if you'd do me the same courtesy. I debate to learn new things and sharpen my own logic, and you aren't giving me many opportunities to do either. You evidently have a similar lack of respect for me, so we might as well end it.
That sounds good to me. As I've said before The Trail was unfortunate, yet manifest destiny. Andrew Jackson actually was a great a president. I have no grudge against Natives. My half brother is White and Cherokee. The Civil Rights Plan was true and it could have prevented violence from The Rights Movement. Let's agree to disagree.
Good, we finally coaxed some sources out of you.
I'm not rude or pig headed.
Your post on this and other threads, say otherwis… moree.
So your politifact is right and my degree in History and my old teacher that has a master degree are wrong, lol.
if if they led you to your conclusions about the trail of tears and your made up statistics about the Civil Rights Act of 1957, then yes, they haven't done you any favors. Also, I thought I just established in the previous post that your accusations about me only using politifact are a baseless and lame attempt to discredit my points. Why continue?
Come on man admit you're wrong and drop it. I'm un bias in my research.
Nah, I feel no need to concede defeat. But I'd be happy to stop interacting with you if you'd do me the same courtesy. I debate to learn new things and sharpen my own logic, and you aren't giving me many opportunities to do either. You evidently have a similar lack of respect for me, so we might as well end it.
The United States government has been trying the kill Castro for 57 years, Trump gets elected and 3 weeks later, Castro is dead. The mere thought of Trump gets dictators and commies killed! He's already Making America Great Again!
I'm not a pure communist, but am familiar enough with their arguments to maybe provide a bit of insight on the problems of communism you listed.
Efficient allocation of resources.
It's important to stress how terribly inefficient markets already are at distributing resources. We produce more than enough food for everyone, but a lot of people starve. There are enough empty homes to house the US homeless population many times over, yet I almost always pass homeless folk on my way to work. Capitalism is all about maximizing profit, even when that fails to meet society's needs (which it often does). You're right of course, about the evils of a state-planned economy. Even if the bureaucrats were perfectly fine people, it's unreasonable to expect someone in D.C. to know better than the people in Chicago about what resources/goods the latter needs.
However, Communism doesn't necessarily entail this state control. Setting aside the majority of humanity's existence (where we lacked wages or states) there are examples of communistic, or somewhat communistic societies that use(d) decentralized, economic planning with success. The Zapatistas in Chiapas, Mexico are an interesting example, that I could talk about forever. It's interesting to note, that in some ways, the capitalism of countries like America is similar to the state socialism we hate so much.. After all, most businesses these days have merged to the extent that they're now economic cartels with monopoly power. You may see a ton of different brands at the grocery store, but a lot of them are owned by the same ten or so companies. That doesn't sound like a free market to me, it sound's like ol' Castro's nationalization by any other name.
I had a bit more to say about the incentive to work argument, but I've already stretched the limits of break time. Maybe later, eh?
Quick edit: As one Orwell fan to another, I highly recommend Homage to Catalonia. It's his memoir of fighting in the Spanish Civil War. He had a lot of admiration for the anarcho-communists and their free cities. Their fate, and the fate of his own militia at the hands of the NKVD was part of the inspiration behind Animal Farm.
Because while communism sounds great in theory, human nature inevitably spoils it, as Kennyshouladiedins1 mentioned. This isn't to say this… more is untrue of capitalism, which has its own negative externalities-- but history has proved that communism also ends up benefiting the few at the expense of the many.
I should back up a minute and clarify that prescribed, revolutionary communism has been shown to be a bad idea, versus the kind Marx had in mind as a natural end point of capitalism. Is there a practical difference? Debatable, perhaps.
But even so, there are some inherent difficulties with communism that society would struggle with even if a thirst for power were a non-factor. Some of the biggest problems with communism, for example, are the efficient allocation of resources, and the lack of incentive to participate. How do you encourage people to participate in a communist system? Some people are naturally motivated and innovativ… [view original content]
That phrase has had so many bad moments and associations that I'm not sure how I should take it. Are you using it in an ironic context or ar… moree you serious?
Also IF you meant it seriously I know what you mean and understand your sentiment, but it's really not accurate to this. The 'Fate of all tyrants' is to be murdered or dethroned by the righteous. Castro was neither.
By this context what you are saying is that the fate of tyrants is the same as all men: Death. So you are literally saying: Castro was a man so his fate was to die.
Sorry for trying to help and say something interesting, I still live under the delusion that I can do that online without having someone take it personally. To answer your question is it ok for me to give you some random facts hoping you would not diss me ? Apparently not.
Sorry for trying to help and say something interesting, I still live under the delusion that I can do that online without having someone tak… moree it personally. To answer your question is it ok for me to give you some random facts hoping you would not diss me ? Apparently not.
Oh jeez man, no one called me an idiot. Also I never dissed you so don't be bothered by what a dick I am. I understand having your intended message being misunderstood, it happens to me all the time. It just seemed to me like your first reply was correcting me and lecturing me on the proper use of the phrase. If you want to just talk about it I'm game. I honestly don't even like Shakespeare as a playwright, but I can't deny he turned a nice phrase or two. Also speaking of misusing the phrase, fucking Booth am I right? Yeah the guy who freed a bunch of people from slavery sounds like a real tyrant to me.
I thought so. Both of these books were authoured by Humbarto Fontova
Critical analysis of his books has shown a consistent bias with his books regarding Fidel Castro (not that I can blame him, after having experienced part of the worser end of Castro's regime). Even so, personal history with a subject matter is not an excuse when you are meant to be writing a historical piece. While he does bring up good points, ultimately, a sizable amount of what he says is hyperbole, exaggerated, or just simply seemingly pulled out of thin air.
I'm sorry, but I cannot take an author like that seriously as a reliable source of information.
Fidel by Humberto Fontova. Longest Romance is by a man that grew up in Cuba during Fidel's popular years, his dad was kept as a prisoner. H… moree has various degrees. Degrees are important and the author is telling the truth about Fidel, historical facts. I give the truth and book sources. I'm not rude or pig headed. So your politifact is right and my degree in History and my old teacher that has a master degree are wrong, lol. Come on man admit you're wrong and drop it. I'm un bias in my research.
Yeah that's what I meant when I ask whether you were being ironic. The two most famous people to use it were Brutus, who will always be remembered as a traitor and John Wilkes Booth who determined Abraham F*###king Lincoln was tyrant, then again the idiot also thought he was going to be declared by the south as some sort of savior.
Oh jeez man, no one called me an idiot. Also I never dissed you so don't be bothered by what a dick I am. I understand having your intende… mored message being misunderstood, it happens to me all the time. It just seemed to me like your first reply was correcting me and lecturing me on the proper use of the phrase. If you want to just talk about it I'm game. I honestly don't even like Shakespeare as a playwright, but I can't deny he turned a nice phrase or two. Also speaking of misusing the phrase, fucking Booth am I right? Yeah the guy who freed a bunch of people from slavery sounds like a real tyrant to me.
I watched a documentary on Booth maybe a year ago, the entire story of what happened to him after the assassination was kind of a big wtf to me. The guy had to have been some kind of a moron. Also the fact that they have to rattle off a one-liner when they're killing someone is rediculous. It's like every 80s movie.
You know when you're just waiting for someone to bring up a specific point to argue with you? I started expecting someone to jump in here and bring up Sherman's march like 3 minutes after I posted that last comment.
Yeah that's what I meant when I ask whether you were being ironic. The two most famous people to use it were Brutus, who will always be reme… morembered as a traitor and John Wilkes Booth who determined Abraham F*###king Lincoln was tyrant, then again the idiot also thought he was going to be declared by the south as some sort of savior.
I don't care if people here disagree with me and I wont argue about it with anybody here, but I think Fidel Castro was hero and there are very few people i call as heroes, he along with his brother Raul and comrade Che liberated Cuba from a tyrannical dictator. There is no man in this world that deserves more respect than Fidel Castro so may his body and spirit rest in peace and that the revolutionary spirit of Cuba may burn brighter than ever.
Right now, as we speak, America is the greatest country in the history of the world. The only problem is America used to be even greater than it is now. There was a time when America would reach for the stars and then some; America used to create technological wonders and progress no place on earth has ever seen before. The American people used to strive for greatness, we had pride in our country, and loved our fellow countryman. We as a people take advantage of our freedoms. It wasn't always this way. The American people weren't so divided that we could barley look at and tolerate people with different opinions. Now all we do is fight, bicker, and yell and anyone with a difference in opinion. These are all reasons as to why America needs to be made great again. I can go on and on about how incredible America is, but it's just not as great as it used to be.
Yeah, its really incredible how he really thought everything was going to be gold. During Lincoln's last public speech he showed up just so he could be an asshole about how he was planning to kill him to random people, its a miracle he wasn't immediately investigated.
I guess people just don't want to bring it up. Then again Sherman's march was mostly Sherman's fault. He was the guy who 'Wanna make sure these men remember why they shouldn't separate from the union'
I watched a documentary on Booth maybe a year ago, the entire story of what happened to him after the assassination was kind of a big wtf to… more me. The guy had to have been some kind of a moron. Also the fact that they have to rattle off a one-liner when they're killing someone is rediculous. It's like every 80s movie.
You know when you're just waiting for someone to bring up a specific point to argue with you? I started expecting someone to jump in here and bring up Sherman's march like 3 minutes after I posted that last comment.
This dude was despised by his people. And those who fled to America are out here celebrating that he's dead. Why do people want to justify what he did? Especially those not born into the situation and had to leave. I'm not and I doubt there are any grandparents from Cuba on the forum but we should listen to their voices, they were actually dictated by Fidel Castro; instead of some group of millennials who are defending him because Socialism is super trendy now.
I'm not a pure communist, but am familiar enough with their arguments to maybe provide a bit of insight on the problems of communism you listed.
By all means!
It's important to stress how terribly inefficient markets already are at distributing resources. We produce more than enough food for everyone, but a lot of people starve. There are enough empty homes to house the US homeless population many times over, yet I almost always pass homeless folk on my way to work. Capitalism is all about maximizing profit, even when that fails to meet society's needs (which it often does).
And honestly, I wouldn't disagree. Please don’t mistake me-- while I'm critical of communism as a system, I also do not share a rose-tinted view of capitalism either. I do, however, shy away from labels like 'evil' to describe either. I'm of the mind that these systems are 'evil' to the extent that underlying human nature creates serious problems with either system. But even then, the good and terrible outcomes we see with both are largely dependent on A) how well individual self-interest is balanced with the interest of society, and B ) how we deal with scarcity. Amoral is perhaps more accurate. And culture is a factor to an extent.
But anyway, it's true that not everyone benefits from capitalism, which is a feature, not a bug. Persistent hunger and homelessness are some of the negatives I, too, associate with the system. This is why I also I hear you about the trend towards reduction in competition, and the government’s incestuous relationship with big business. I see this as an imbalance in item A I mentioned above. Among other things, I’m also reminded of the banana soda I mentioned earlier in the thread. At first pass, I would say you are absolutely correct; this beverage is not an efficient use of time and resources.
But I value my ability, however meager, to signal ‘this sucks, stop making it (or make it better)’ by refusing to ever buy that swill again.
You're right of course, about the evils of a state-planned economy. Even if the bureaucrats were perfectly fine people, it's unreasonable to expect someone in D.C. to know better than the people in Chicago about what resources/goods the latter needs.
However, Communism doesn't necessarily entail this state control. Setting aside the majority of humanity's existence (where we lacked wages or states) there are examples of communistic, or somewhat communistic societies that use(d) decentralized, economic planning with success. The Zapatistas in Chiapas, Mexico are an interesting example, that I could talk about forever.
But this is intriguing. What if the planners are the immediate community itself? There’s a reason I adore crowdfunding as a concept. It’s what springs to mind when you say decentralized economic planning. Am I way off the mark?
No worries about your time restraints. Thanks for your insights so far.
I'm not a pure communist, but am familiar enough with their arguments to maybe provide a bit of insight on the problems of communism you lis… moreted.
Efficient allocation of resources.
It's important to stress how terribly inefficient markets already are at distributing resources. We produce more than enough food for everyone, but a lot of people starve. There are enough empty homes to house the US homeless population many times over, yet I almost always pass homeless folk on my way to work. Capitalism is all about maximizing profit, even when that fails to meet society's needs (which it often does). You're right of course, about the evils of a state-planned economy. Even if the bureaucrats were perfectly fine people, it's unreasonable to expect someone in D.C. to know better than the people in Chicago about what resources/goods the latter needs.
However, Communism doesn't necessarily entail this state control. Setting aside… [view original content]
I don't care if people here disagree with me and I wont argue about it with anybody here, but I think Fidel Castro was hero and there are ve… morery few people i call as heroes, he along with his brother Raul and comrade Che liberated Cuba from a tyrannical dictator. There is no man in this world that deserves more respect than Fidel Castro so may his body and spirit rest in peace and that the revolutionary spirit of Cuba may burn brighter than ever.
I don't care if people here disagree with me and I wont argue about it with anybody here, but I think Fidel Castro was hero and there are ve… morery few people i call as heroes, he along with his brother Raul and comrade Che liberated Cuba from a tyrannical dictator. There is no man in this world that deserves more respect than Fidel Castro so may his body and spirit rest in peace and that the revolutionary spirit of Cuba may burn brighter than ever.
I'm of the mind that these systems are 'evil' to the extent that underlying human nature creates serious problems with either system.
I've never put much stock in the concept of "human nature". True, we aren't blank slates, but our environment seems much more important to me. It's not human nature to have a class of wage laborers and a class of property owners. It's a product of state intervention and the division of labor to maximize profit. It's not necessarily our nature to be greedy and ruthless. But our environment tends to reward greed and ruthlessness in certain circumstances.
But I value my ability, however meager, to signal ‘this sucks, stop making it (or make it better)’ by refusing to ever buy that swill again.
In a truly free market, our ability to signal approval/disapproval by "voting with our wallets" would be a very potent weapon indeed, and a good way for the consumer/worker class to defend itself. Unfortunately, markets are almost always deformed by government action, severely limiting the impact that can have. For instance, Aetna is my health insurance carrier. I fucking hate Aetna. They've been denying me an important medication for almost a year now. But the way health insurance works, I can't change. Next year, when I have to go on Obamacare, my carrier will almost certainly be, you guessed it: Aetna. Plus, as I mentioned with so many brands being owned by one company, it's very hard to signal disapproval, because profit will get to them one way or another. It's why something like a full Nestlé boycott would never work.
But this is intriguing. What if the planners are the immediate community itself? There’s a reason I adore crowdfunding as a concept. It’s what springs to mind when you say decentralized economic planning. Am I way off the mark?
Not exactly (though crowdfunding is cool). The Zapatistas are libertarian (stateless) socialists and the economy is made up of worker co-ops. Enterprises are owned and managed collectively by the people that work there. There are no "managers" or private property ownership (beyond personal property like your house, car, etc.) Workers are entitled to the full product of their labor and resources are distributed democratically through the community and solidarity networks. The excess is traded locally and sold online in order to provide other resources the people need. Communities are run through direct democracy.
It's not utopia by any means. Life is tough, and resisting capitalism is part of the culture and necessary for the survival of the indigenous folk there. But the people have their autonomy and scrape out a decent existence. The Zapatistas are armed and have proven willing to kill and die to protect this way of life from destruction at the hands of the Mexican government and drug cartels. The Black Panthers tried to do something similar in poor, black neighborhoods before COINTELPRO got many murdered and locked up.
No worries about your time restraints. Thanks for your insights so far.
I'm not a pure communist, but am familiar enough with their arguments to maybe provide a bit of insight on the problems of communism you lis… moreted.
By all means!
It's important to stress how terribly inefficient markets already are at distributing resources. We produce more than enough food for everyone, but a lot of people starve. There are enough empty homes to house the US homeless population many times over, yet I almost always pass homeless folk on my way to work. Capitalism is all about maximizing profit, even when that fails to meet society's needs (which it often does).
And honestly, I wouldn't disagree. Please don’t mistake me-- while I'm critical of communism as a system, I also do not share a rose-tinted view of capitalism either. I do, however, shy away from labels like 'evil' to describe either. I'm of the mind that these systems are 'evil' to the extent that underlying human nature creates serious problems … [view original content]
I don't care if people here disagree with me and I wont argue about it with anybody here, but I think Fidel Castro was hero and there are ve… morery few people i call as heroes, he along with his brother Raul and comrade Che liberated Cuba from a tyrannical dictator. There is no man in this world that deserves more respect than Fidel Castro so may his body and spirit rest in peace and that the revolutionary spirit of Cuba may burn brighter than ever.
Comments
I didn't say the people are evil, I said communism in of itself is evil. Every time I our history communism has been tried it's just failed. That failure always brings with it suffering, poverty, death, starvation, little to no resources for those at the bottom (which happens to be all of the people). Communism, in theory, is a beautiful idea. It just never works. I mean, just look at the USSR, Vietnam, Venezuela, North Korea, Cuba, etc. (I know all of these countries happen to be socialism in its purist form). It's impossible to actually practice full on communism, but when people try... what happens is not too great.
Lol, I'm not even American, yet I see that Fidel was a fucking twat. Stop being so sensitive.
I don't know man, countries like North Korea, China, SSSR, Cuba are/were just SO insanely pro human rights, totally not anti-democracy, totally not fucking crooked. Ever heard about the invasion of Czechoslovakia by the Soviets? Which also happened to be my birthplace? Guess you didn't, well let me tell you something. The dictatorship of a one political side, arrests and executions of political prisoners, censorship, Soviet army occupying our country and butchery of economy were really not that well received. Take a guess why?
Phone error
Phone error.
That sounds good to me. As I've said before The Trail was unfortunate, yet manifest destiny. Andrew Jackson actually was a great a president. I have no grudge against Natives. My half brother is White and Cherokee. The Civil Rights Plan was true and it could have prevented violence from The Rights Movement. Let's agree to disagree.
Commiepedia.
Tell me when,why, and for who it was great before now.
Took him long enough.
[Blind Sniper MOD EDIT: Comment redacted; don't insult other users.]
What's wrong with me saying that? I'm just asking when America was actually "great" before now.
I'm not a pure communist, but am familiar enough with their arguments to maybe provide a bit of insight on the problems of communism you listed.
It's important to stress how terribly inefficient markets already are at distributing resources. We produce more than enough food for everyone, but a lot of people starve. There are enough empty homes to house the US homeless population many times over, yet I almost always pass homeless folk on my way to work. Capitalism is all about maximizing profit, even when that fails to meet society's needs (which it often does). You're right of course, about the evils of a state-planned economy. Even if the bureaucrats were perfectly fine people, it's unreasonable to expect someone in D.C. to know better than the people in Chicago about what resources/goods the latter needs.
However, Communism doesn't necessarily entail this state control. Setting aside the majority of humanity's existence (where we lacked wages or states) there are examples of communistic, or somewhat communistic societies that use(d) decentralized, economic planning with success. The Zapatistas in Chiapas, Mexico are an interesting example, that I could talk about forever. It's interesting to note, that in some ways, the capitalism of countries like America is similar to the state socialism we hate so much.. After all, most businesses these days have merged to the extent that they're now economic cartels with monopoly power. You may see a ton of different brands at the grocery store, but a lot of them are owned by the same ten or so companies. That doesn't sound like a free market to me, it sound's like ol' Castro's nationalization by any other name.
I had a bit more to say about the incentive to work argument, but I've already stretched the limits of break time. Maybe later, eh?
Quick edit: As one Orwell fan to another, I highly recommend Homage to Catalonia. It's his memoir of fighting in the Spanish Civil War. He had a lot of admiration for the anarcho-communists and their free cities. Their fate, and the fate of his own militia at the hands of the NKVD was part of the inspiration behind Animal Farm.
...
Damn... I don't want to be rude or anything but Raven got told.
First Bowie, now Castro? Wow. 2016 is hitting hard.
Did you just compare Bowie to Castro...
I know, but thanks for the lecture. Is it not okay that I just say some cliche bullshit sometimes?
Lol
these last dozen of comments have been hilarious
Sorry for trying to help and say something interesting, I still live under the delusion that I can do that online without having someone take it personally. To answer your question is it ok for me to give you some random facts hoping you would not diss me ? Apparently not.
Dear God...you just wiped Raven off the face of the planet!
Man this whole thread is just people thinking I'm ignorant.
When did I call you that? I am trying to have a good conversation. I'm sorry if others called you an idiot but I have not.
This thread right now in a nutshell:
Oh jeez man, no one called me an idiot. Also I never dissed you so don't be bothered by what a dick I am. I understand having your intended message being misunderstood, it happens to me all the time. It just seemed to me like your first reply was correcting me and lecturing me on the proper use of the phrase. If you want to just talk about it I'm game. I honestly don't even like Shakespeare as a playwright, but I can't deny he turned a nice phrase or two. Also speaking of misusing the phrase, fucking Booth am I right? Yeah the guy who freed a bunch of people from slavery sounds like a real tyrant to me.
I thought so. Both of these books were authoured by Humbarto Fontova
Critical analysis of his books has shown a consistent bias with his books regarding Fidel Castro (not that I can blame him, after having experienced part of the worser end of Castro's regime). Even so, personal history with a subject matter is not an excuse when you are meant to be writing a historical piece. While he does bring up good points, ultimately, a sizable amount of what he says is hyperbole, exaggerated, or just simply seemingly pulled out of thin air.
I'm sorry, but I cannot take an author like that seriously as a reliable source of information.
Yeah that's what I meant when I ask whether you were being ironic. The two most famous people to use it were Brutus, who will always be remembered as a traitor and John Wilkes Booth who determined Abraham F*###king Lincoln was tyrant, then again the idiot also thought he was going to be declared by the south as some sort of savior.
I watched a documentary on Booth maybe a year ago, the entire story of what happened to him after the assassination was kind of a big wtf to me. The guy had to have been some kind of a moron. Also the fact that they have to rattle off a one-liner when they're killing someone is rediculous. It's like every 80s movie.
You know when you're just waiting for someone to bring up a specific point to argue with you? I started expecting someone to jump in here and bring up Sherman's march like 3 minutes after I posted that last comment.
That's good with me. Cheers.
I don't care if people here disagree with me and I wont argue about it with anybody here, but I think Fidel Castro was hero and there are very few people i call as heroes, he along with his brother Raul and comrade Che liberated Cuba from a tyrannical dictator. There is no man in this world that deserves more respect than Fidel Castro so may his body and spirit rest in peace and that the revolutionary spirit of Cuba may burn brighter than ever.
Right now, as we speak, America is the greatest country in the history of the world. The only problem is America used to be even greater than it is now. There was a time when America would reach for the stars and then some; America used to create technological wonders and progress no place on earth has ever seen before. The American people used to strive for greatness, we had pride in our country, and loved our fellow countryman. We as a people take advantage of our freedoms. It wasn't always this way. The American people weren't so divided that we could barley look at and tolerate people with different opinions. Now all we do is fight, bicker, and yell and anyone with a difference in opinion. These are all reasons as to why America needs to be made great again. I can go on and on about how incredible America is, but it's just not as great as it used to be.
Yeah, its really incredible how he really thought everything was going to be gold. During Lincoln's last public speech he showed up just so he could be an asshole about how he was planning to kill him to random people, its a miracle he wasn't immediately investigated.
I guess people just don't want to bring it up. Then again Sherman's march was mostly Sherman's fault. He was the guy who 'Wanna make sure these men remember why they shouldn't separate from the union'
This dude was despised by his people. And those who fled to America are out here celebrating that he's dead. Why do people want to justify what he did? Especially those not born into the situation and had to leave. I'm not and I doubt there are any grandparents from Cuba on the forum but we should listen to their voices, they were actually dictated by Fidel Castro; instead of some group of millennials who are defending him because Socialism is super trendy now.
Don't forget Scott Weiland from Stone Temple Pilots
By all means!
And honestly, I wouldn't disagree. Please don’t mistake me-- while I'm critical of communism as a system, I also do not share a rose-tinted view of capitalism either. I do, however, shy away from labels like 'evil' to describe either. I'm of the mind that these systems are 'evil' to the extent that underlying human nature creates serious problems with either system. But even then, the good and terrible outcomes we see with both are largely dependent on A) how well individual self-interest is balanced with the interest of society, and B ) how we deal with scarcity. Amoral is perhaps more accurate. And culture is a factor to an extent.
But anyway, it's true that not everyone benefits from capitalism, which is a feature, not a bug. Persistent hunger and homelessness are some of the negatives I, too, associate with the system. This is why I also I hear you about the trend towards reduction in competition, and the government’s incestuous relationship with big business. I see this as an imbalance in item A I mentioned above. Among other things, I’m also reminded of the banana soda I mentioned earlier in the thread. At first pass, I would say you are absolutely correct; this beverage is not an efficient use of time and resources.
But I value my ability, however meager, to signal ‘this sucks, stop making it (or make it better)’ by refusing to ever buy that swill again.
But this is intriguing. What if the planners are the immediate community itself? There’s a reason I adore crowdfunding as a concept. It’s what springs to mind when you say decentralized economic planning. Am I way off the mark?
No worries about your time restraints. Thanks for your insights so far.
Did you just call Fidel a hero?
You might want to move before the Thread Mjölnir comes crashing down.
what the heck
I've never put much stock in the concept of "human nature". True, we aren't blank slates, but our environment seems much more important to me. It's not human nature to have a class of wage laborers and a class of property owners. It's a product of state intervention and the division of labor to maximize profit. It's not necessarily our nature to be greedy and ruthless. But our environment tends to reward greed and ruthlessness in certain circumstances.
In a truly free market, our ability to signal approval/disapproval by "voting with our wallets" would be a very potent weapon indeed, and a good way for the consumer/worker class to defend itself. Unfortunately, markets are almost always deformed by government action, severely limiting the impact that can have. For instance, Aetna is my health insurance carrier. I fucking hate Aetna. They've been denying me an important medication for almost a year now. But the way health insurance works, I can't change. Next year, when I have to go on Obamacare, my carrier will almost certainly be, you guessed it: Aetna. Plus, as I mentioned with so many brands being owned by one company, it's very hard to signal disapproval, because profit will get to them one way or another. It's why something like a full Nestlé boycott would never work.
Not exactly (though crowdfunding is cool). The Zapatistas are libertarian (stateless) socialists and the economy is made up of worker co-ops. Enterprises are owned and managed collectively by the people that work there. There are no "managers" or private property ownership (beyond personal property like your house, car, etc.) Workers are entitled to the full product of their labor and resources are distributed democratically through the community and solidarity networks. The excess is traded locally and sold online in order to provide other resources the people need. Communities are run through direct democracy.
It's not utopia by any means. Life is tough, and resisting capitalism is part of the culture and necessary for the survival of the indigenous folk there. But the people have their autonomy and scrape out a decent existence. The Zapatistas are armed and have proven willing to kill and die to protect this way of life from destruction at the hands of the Mexican government and drug cartels. The Black Panthers tried to do something similar in poor, black neighborhoods before COINTELPRO got many murdered and locked up.
Thanks! More later, probably.
Aw man, I'm having a great discussion with @Dozurany. It's only tangentially related to Castro, but still. The drama seems to be mostly over.
I'll just bring back the politics thread if this one gets locked, I guess.
what 2 heck!11