I think she cared solely because it reminded her of how she abandoned her sister because she was having a panic attack just like her. She didn't really say anything sympathetic towards Sarah, she actually only talked about her sister and how it would have been better to LEAVE her behind. If anything it was pretty selfish. Jane is a great character but thats one of the worst examples to use to show how she was a more developed character than the others.
I thought she was suffering PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)
I believe it was implied that this was indeed the case: Carlos exp… morelains that she's all he has left and Sarah later insists that she's alone now, which suggests that they lost her mother and that Sarah didn't handle it well at first. Combine that with the fact that she may have witnessed Nick have to put down his mom and it makes perfect sense as to why she tends to get worked up when people die. Also, part of why Luke spent hours arguing with her and why slapping her is mandatory is that she seemed to be constantly flashing back to Carlos's death, making her be literally paralyzed with fear and causing her to freak out whenever someone tries to get close to her.
also one scene in episode 4, she thinks her dad would come back and that they should go back to the cabin where its safe.
Okay, funny thing about this: while I definitely got this at first, I can't… [view original content]
I dunno if this connects to it but in episode 1 of season 2, Clem can say to Luke in the kitchen, "sometimes people die because of me" was this FORESHADOWING a few of the characters that die determinately because of her choices?
When I look at Clementine now, she looks like Ellie from the Last of Us, because they can actually fight well, Clementine can struggle-fight a survivor during episode 1 and can actually bite a thumb off the guy. Ellie does more than shooting a gun and using a bow and arrow, she uses a knife and can jump on a guy repeatingly stabbing.
Now that it passes two years after season 2, I guess clementine is 13 just like Ellie until she turned 14 later on in the Last of Us.
Not sure it it's in game, but I found the website of someone who is a concept artist for Telltale Games, Jesse Maccabe. They have very beautiful pieces from the game and they made some of the famous covers for the game.
In Season 1 Episode 3 Chuck makes a statement about how many of you there are and when Chuck asks if Walkers got them. You can reply that Walkers got them Many people I asked said they replied "Walkers got 'em" and actually, that's incorrect.
Here's a list of companions and how they left.
1.) Doug/Carly - Eaten by Undead (you could say this was before you were officially a group)
2.) Glenn - Left to find friends
3.) Mark - Eaten by St. Johns
4.) Larry - Massive Heart Attack/Kenny kill, you decide.
5.) Doug/Carly - Shot by Lily
6.) Lily - kicked out/ran away
7.) Duck - at the time had been bitten.
So in reality you shouldn't say Walkers got them as only one person had died from Walkers "in your group" at the time.
In fact, if you really think about it, moving forward Ben, Christa, Omid, and Kenny would not fall to zombies either.
In fact, of your group, Duck, Chuck and Lee were the only ones to die from Walkers.
So after what @4st3r1sm posted on some deleted animations from Season 2 [which can be viewed heeeere] I found some other demo reels featuring some TWDG animation in among some other things. They were pretty interesting:
And here are some test animations from a scene in 400 Days with Bonnie [there were dozens and dozens. I think it was for some job application thingy] But these two looked pretty good so I linked them.
I know that. I was replying to "Jane has the tendency to care about things when it is too late. She showed no interest in Sarah when she was alive." My statement still stands. Jane doesn't need to be caring to every single character she meets.
Perhaps Jane froze for a couple of seconds given that Clementine let herself be devoured instead of attacking the walker, running away, nor asking for help; a brief disconnection from reality due to an abrupt shocking experience.
I know this is hard to believe, but Jane is not a demigod. She is human.
Actually, the tumblr post that pointed that scene out to me rightfully notes that Jane starts to leave as the walker grabs Clementine. While… more she might be planning to put her down afterwards, she still decides to leave rather than intervening despite having a gun on her--something she would later do to Sarah.
Not sure it it's in game, but I found the website of someone who is a concept artist for Telltale Games, Jesse Maccabe. They have very beautiful pieces from the game and they made some of the famous covers for the game.
Yep. And it gets even more messed up than that if you're paying attention: Jane says they were chased up to the roof of a building and they had to jump to the next rooftop to escape. Jane couldn't get Jaime to jump and she couldn't throw her(?), so she just left her there. After she got to safety, she waited a bit for Jaime to show up after following her but when she didn't show up, Jane just assumed the worst because she didn't have the guts to go back later to confirm whether Jaime did in fact get killed, turn, or may have gotten away and eventually convinced herself that it was for the best.
over the edge of the balcony (I don't know what it's called.)
Observation deck.
What if Clem was still down there when the zombies broke through? Bam, both of them dead.
You know, that kinda loses power once you realize that's essentially what happens when she slaps Sarah.
I don't see why everyone thinks Jane is terrible just because she didn't devote all her time and life to other characters. She barely knew Sarah. That way instead of both of them dying, only one had to die. I don't see what's so wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with looking out for yourself. It's human nature to put your survival in front of other's. Especially when those others are practically strangers to you. If Jane thought her survival would be best outside of the group, then that's fine. If Jane wanted to leave because she attained emotional scarring due to the past (her sister) and didn't want to relive the trauma, that's fine. She doesn't need to take a bullet for every single character she meets to be a good person and that's what people have trouble realizing.
Most of that stuff is somewhat true, as Jane tends to say and do things that are needlessly callous and coldblooded on a relatively small scale, sometimes with the best(by her standards, anyway) of intentions. Things like trying to convince Clementine to be able to take care of herself at everyone else's expense aren't necessarily evil and it could be somewhat tolerable as long as she does so in small doses and no one gets hurt. But that's the thing: a serious problem with Jane in general is she'll go too far too quick because she doesn't give things she doesn't like the benefit of a doubt and people do get hurt because of it; that all adds up pretty damn quick.
Sarah is pretty much a/the flagship example of that.
I don't see why everyone thinks Jane is terrible just because she didn't devote all her time and life to other characters. She barely knew … moreSarah. She doesn't need to be all lovey dovey towards Sarah. It's not like she pushed Sarah into a hoard or pushed her over the edge of the balcony (I don't know what it's called.) Even if she told Clem to leave Sarah there, she probably thought what happened to Jaime would happen to Clem had she not fled. That way instead of both of them dying, only one had to die. I don't see what's so wrong with that. What if Clem was still down there when the zombies broke through? Bam, both of them dead.
There's nothing wrong with looking out for yourself. It's human nature to put your survival in front of other's. Especially when those others are practically strangers to you. If Jane thought her survival would be best outside of the group, then that's fine. If Jane wanted to leave because she attai… [view original content]
So after what @4st3r1sm posted on some deleted animations from Season 2 [which can be viewed heeeere] I found some other demo reels featurin… moreg some TWDG animation in among some other things. They were pretty interesting:
With one other demo reel through here:
http://www.tumblehead.com/43/games/the_walking_dead
And here are some test animations from a scene in 400 Days with Bonnie [there were dozens and dozens. I think it was for some job application thingy] But these two looked pretty good so I linked them.
Perhaps Jane froze for a couple of seconds given that Clementine let herself be devoured instead of attacking the walker, running away, nor … moreasking for help; a brief disconnection from reality due to an abrupt shocking experience.
I know this is hard to believe, but Jane is not a demigod. She is human.
So Jane didn't shoot a guy in the nuts despite pacifying him, try to put off looking for the missing three, pressured Clementine into leaving Sarah, aggressively categorized Sarah based on her own PTSD over her sister, stuckup Arvo and threatened him and Natasha, abandon Sarah despite having a gun on her person, left Luke to face the consequences alone after literally screwing him over, refused to own up to her part in some of the later problems, spoke ill of the dead to piss off Kenny, and ultimately got him/herself/both killed because she felt like she knew what was best? My mistake then. :P
Jane isnt the best but people go overboard with their hate for her, she isnt perfect but there are reasons behind all those actions she doesnt do it just to be evil or because shes a bitch
So Jane didn't shoot a guy in the nuts despite pacifying him, try to put off looking for the missing three, pressured Clementine into leavi… moreng Sarah, aggressively categorized Sarah based on her own PTSD over her sister, stuckup Arvo and threatened him and Natasha, abandon Sarah despite having a gun on her person, left Luke to face the consequences alone after literally screwing him over, refused to own up to her part in some of the later problems, spoke ill of the dead to piss off Kenny, and ultimately got him/herself/both killed because she felt like she knew what was best? My mistake then. :P
You know, that kinda loses power once you realize that's essentially what happens when she slaps Sarah.
Personally ive never seen a scene so stupid as when she slaps sarah. If anything that would make sarah even more shrink away, especially given her past reaction to her dad hitting her, but no here all the terrified kid needed was a good smack round the face and problem solved. How they all get out after that when the walkers are already in the room also makes little sense.
Personally either someone else should have died due to sarah taking so long or sarah should have just flipped out even more and died anyway, it would have been better than that half assed second death which leaves the whole character having little point
over the edge of the balcony (I don't know what it's called.)
Observation deck.
What if Clem was still down there when the zom… morebies broke through? Bam, both of them dead.
You know, that kinda loses power once you realize that's essentially what happens when she slaps Sarah.
I don't see why everyone thinks Jane is terrible just because she didn't devote all her time and life to other characters. She barely knew Sarah. That way instead of both of them dying, only one had to die. I don't see what's so wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with looking out for yourself. It's human nature to put your survival in front of other's. Especially when those others are practically strangers to you. If Jane thought her survival would be best outside of the group, then that's fine. If Jane wanted to leave because she attained emotional scarring due to the past (her sister) and didn't want to relive the trauma, that's fine. She d… [view original content]
The cause of the death would be Lee killing him since that is what did him in and if Lee pulls him up he doesn't die. If you fell from a 5 story building because someone tossed you off and a car ran you over we wouldn't blame the car.
What did you expect her to do...if they had to jump to escape...that tells me the walkers had a way to get to said roof...was she supposed to die with her sister? I mean are you actually blaming Jane for wanting to live? If the walkers were coming then it is logical to assume that a girl who had not shown any inclination for survival was in fact dead.
Yep. And it gets even more messed up than that if you're paying attention: Jane says they were chased up to the roof of a building and they … morehad to jump to the next rooftop to escape. Jane couldn't get Jaime to jump and she couldn't throw her(?), so she just left her there. After she got to safety, she waited a bit for Jaime to show up after following her but when she didn't show up, Jane just assumed the worst because she didn't have the guts to go back later to confirm whether Jaime did in fact get killed, turn, or may have gotten away and eventually convinced herself that it was for the best.
Think about that for a second.
You're right: she's a bitch because she does those things. Often with an air of self-righteousness.
But for real though, I acknowledge its more a case of sloppy writing choices, unfortunate implications, and trying too hard to push her traditional archetypes in an attempt at pandering without putting enough thought in about whether it completely lines up or whether the story justifies it properly. She has an overwhelming number of negative traits and connotations about her that, when combined with intended positive traits that I feel are either superficial, tainted by uncomfortable baggage, or simply not emphasized enough, results in a lack of balance that makes her very hard to sympathize with after a point.
I'm sure some people can [and will] say the same about Kenny, especially in Season 2.
Jane isnt the best but people go overboard with their hate for her, she isnt perfect but there are reasons behind all those actions she doesnt do it just to be evil or because shes a bitch
Isn't it weird that if you drop Ben, because he wanted to die, I could've sworn I heard him scream, "Lee! Please!" is this scream reused? Because the hanged walker was grabbing Ben and he shouted at Lee to shoot the walker with the same voice.
For starters, there's her willingness to help Clementine (even without Clementine asking her) despite admitting that she's not even supposed… more to be talking to her. Of course, there's the moral myopia and straw hypocrisy of some people pointing out that this means she's more than willing to essentially steal from the group to help Clementine.
Asking her if she should be in bed has her mention that needed light to read her book and asks Clementine not to tell her dad. This can be preempted by eavesdropping on the house meeting, where Pete asking where Sarah is has Carlos quickly say she has her book and that she doesn't need to be a part of the meeting, which suggests that he both knows she'll go behind his back on a whim, as well as the fact that she'd probably be willing to actively advocate helping Clementine despite her considerable reluctance to disappoint him.
One of the red flags that she tends to raise with people(myself included) … [view original content]
Yeah, that's what I call a case of nearly breaking the suspension of disbelief for a "good" cause. The idea is that slapping Sarah snaps her out of her PTSD fueled flashbacks long enough to focus on Clementine in disbelief that she would slap her and notice that the walkers are breaking in, thereby convincing her to leave due to having to react quickly to the problem after something else caught her offguard and got her to pay attention. The message of that scene is that sometimes you have hurt people in the short term in order to help them in the long term, The fact that Sarah determinately gives Clementine a look that seems to be understanding and always admits that she has a problem on the way back seem to reinforce that. Also, through the power of Youtube, I know that the walkers not killing them the moment they enter the room is a least somewhat consistent with the alternative: if you choose to leave Sarah, she has a solid 6-12 seconds to simply sit there watching Clementine and realize what's happening as the walkers break through the door and Clementine has enough time to be pulled up while giving Sarah a look of reluctance, getting settled, and getting into position to face Sarah before the walkers start attacking her in a narmy fashion as she decides to determinately apologize to her or simply look away(which none of the videos I've seen does, btw). I guess that gives me some reason not to completely dread my third playthrough of that episode.
Might just be the other things I watch/read/play talking, but I'm willing to forgive certain things or at least ignore them if something worthwhile comes out of it to make it feel justified: in this case, Clementine, Jane, and a lesser extent Luke and Sarah's characterizations. After spending a barebones episode having so little in the way of character that she can say things that don't make sense for her and has relatively little effect on the plot in favor of Kenny and technically Jane, Clementine gets rerailed into someone who has lost a people in spite or because of her kind nature and thus will do things she doesn't like having to do in the name of protecting as many of the people she cares about as possible, even losing her temper and slapping her friend so that she'll get the sloppily copped-outchance to keep moving forward with her life or reluctantly leaving one of the few people who seemed to like her purely for who she is to be killed by the herd so she can keep herself alive to make sure it happen to anyone else while being visibly devastated at having to make that choice. Interestingly enough, Sarah and Jane can both be considered the antagonists of that situation for causing and/or doing nothing to stop the conflict as a result of taking opposite extremes, which gives Jane some characterization by making her a foil to Sarah. And Luke really starts getting his development here, as the walk back has him express disappointment in himself for failing to get through to Sarah after hours and determinately letting Nick throw his life away, letting Clementine and technically Jane handle the situation of what to do with Sarah, and being quick to agree with Jane's method and get himself to safety as Sarah's determinate expense. Though I will say that I do kinda like the idea of Nick forcing her to leave if only because it gives a definitive chance to redeem himself, something I'm struggling to do in my personal rewrites.
Sarah "canon" death, on the other hand, blatantly breaks this four times over with little to no worthwhile results beyond shilling Jane as being "tragic" for all of 30 combined seconds and throwing away one of the nicest main characters from day one with no real closure for her arc despite the numerous little details that could've been utilized. Especially once you seen all three variations of that scene. Seriously, what the hell?
You know, that kinda loses power once you realize that's essentially what happens when she slaps Sarah.
Personally ive never seen a … morescene so stupid as when she slaps sarah. If anything that would make sarah even more shrink away, especially given her past reaction to her dad hitting her, but no here all the terrified kid needed was a good smack round the face and problem solved. How they all get out after that when the walkers are already in the room also makes little sense.
Personally either someone else should have died due to sarah taking so long or sarah should have just flipped out even more and died anyway, it would have been better than that half assed second death which leaves the whole character having little point
So Jane didn't shoot a guy in the nuts despite pacifying him, try to put off looking for the missing three, pressured Clementine into leavi… moreng Sarah, aggressively categorized Sarah based on her own PTSD over her sister, stuckup Arvo and threatened him and Natasha, abandon Sarah despite having a gun on her person, left Luke to face the consequences alone after literally screwing him over, refused to own up to her part in some of the later problems, spoke ill of the dead to piss off Kenny, and ultimately got him/herself/both killed because she felt like she knew what was best? My mistake then. :P
Yeah, Lee is definitely responsible for his death in the clocktower, but the walkers are the ones to actually kill him, as he's still clearly conscious, handicapped, and panicking when they surround him, thereby also making him a very technical example of "Walkers got 'em."
It's the same logic as saying Ben is responsible for Katjaa's death or Jane is responsible for Sarah's "canon" death.
The cause of the death would be Lee killing him since that is what did him in and if Lee pulls him up he doesn't die. If you fell from a 5 story building because someone tossed you off and a car ran you over we wouldn't blame the car.
No, her wanting to live isn't the problem. I actually give her quite a bit of slack in that situation because she clearly didn't want to have to do that and had done everything she could to keep her sister alive beforehand, only leaving when it became clear that there really was nothing she could do in a undeniably hopeless situation. (Btw, I totally forgot to note that she didn't have the guts to go back later to confirm that Jaime did in fact get killed, turn, or may have gotten away. My bad!) It's the extremes she has accepted as being absolute to the point of not hesitating to do so as soon as possible that I take issue with.
What did you expect her to do...if they had to jump to escape...that tells me the walkers had a way to get to said roof...was she supposed t… moreo die with her sister? I mean are you actually blaming Jane for wanting to live? If the walkers were coming then it is logical to assume that a girl who had not shown any inclination for survival was in fact dead.
Isn't it weird that if you drop Ben, because he wanted to die, I could've sworn I heard him scream, "Lee! Please!" is this scream reused? Because the hanged walker was grabbing Ben and he shouted at Lee to shoot the walker with the same voice.
Yeah because lets look at your thinking here...She escapes to the next roof..one we assume is safe from walkers...her sister is on a roof with walkers able to get to her. You are now throwing in a wild theory that her sister suddenly found a will to live and escaped somehow...and you go further to fault someone for not going back to a walker infested building...getting to a walker infested roof...and making sure her now walker sis is there. Thats your plan...escape and then go back into the same danger...and if she did find her sister alive...then what? The same damn problem.
No, her wanting to live isn't the problem. I actually give her quite a bit of slack in that situation because she clearly didn't want to hav… moree to do that and had done everything she could to keep her sister alive beforehand, only leaving when it became clear that there really was nothing she could do in a undeniably hopeless situation. (Btw, I totally forgot to note that she didn't have the guts to go back later to confirm that Jaime did in fact get killed, turn, or may have gotten away. My bad!) It's the extremes she has accepted as being absolute to the point of not hesitating to do so as soon as possible that I take issue with.
You know, when you put it like that, maybe. After all, Jane and Clementine essentially do the same thing in her ending, so...nah, they wouldn't do that. ...Would they?
Anyway, the way she explained it made me question whether she's been deluding herself longer than I thought or if her sister did die, just really quietly.
Yeah because lets look at your thinking here...She escapes to the next roof..one we assume is safe from walkers...her sister is on a roof wi… moreth walkers able to get to her. You are now throwing in a wild theory that her sister suddenly found a will to live and escaped somehow...and you go further to fault someone for not going back to a walker infested building...getting to a walker infested roof...and making sure her now walker sis is there. Thats your plan...escape and then go back into the same danger...and if she did find her sister alive...then what? The same damn problem.
First video
...What the fuck was that first thing or the thing at 0:38?!
Also, lol at Molly.
Second video
I love how … morepathetic the fight between Lee and The Stranger looks.
Also, lol at Carley.
Third cideo
Brock Samson?!
What's the game at 1:24?
Fifth
Interesting tidbit about Leland there.
Comments
I think she cared solely because it reminded her of how she abandoned her sister because she was having a panic attack just like her. She didn't really say anything sympathetic towards Sarah, she actually only talked about her sister and how it would have been better to LEAVE her behind. If anything it was pretty selfish. Jane is a great character but thats one of the worst examples to use to show how she was a more developed character than the others.
And Jane said her sister Jaime was like Sarah, she had to drag her across four states and then just left her.
Well, people did die around her before that: Lee, Christa, Omid, Katjaa, Duck, Doug, Carley...this is who Clementine referred to.
When I look at Clementine now, she looks like Ellie from the Last of Us, because they can actually fight well, Clementine can struggle-fight a survivor during episode 1 and can actually bite a thumb off the guy. Ellie does more than shooting a gun and using a bow and arrow, she uses a knife and can jump on a guy repeatingly stabbing.
Now that it passes two years after season 2, I guess clementine is 13 just like Ellie until she turned 14 later on in the Last of Us.
In Season 1 Episode 3 Chuck makes a statement about how many of you there are and when Chuck asks if Walkers got them. You can reply that Walkers got them Many people I asked said they replied "Walkers got 'em" and actually, that's incorrect.
Here's a list of companions and how they left.
1.) Doug/Carly - Eaten by Undead (you could say this was before you were officially a group)
2.) Glenn - Left to find friends
3.) Mark - Eaten by St. Johns
4.) Larry - Massive Heart Attack/Kenny kill, you decide.
5.) Doug/Carly - Shot by Lily
6.) Lily - kicked out/ran away
7.) Duck - at the time had been bitten.
So in reality you shouldn't say Walkers got them as only one person had died from Walkers "in your group" at the time.
In fact, if you really think about it, moving forward Ben, Christa, Omid, and Kenny would not fall to zombies either.
In fact, of your group, Duck, Chuck and Lee were the only ones to die from Walkers.
So after what @4st3r1sm posted on some deleted animations from Season 2 [which can be viewed heeeere] I found some other demo reels featuring some TWDG animation in among some other things. They were pretty interesting:
With one other demo reel through here:
http://www.tumblehead.com/43/games/the_walking_dead
And here are some test animations from a scene in 400 Days with Bonnie [there were dozens and dozens. I think it was for some job application thingy] But these two looked pretty good so I linked them.
I know that. I was replying to "Jane has the tendency to care about things when it is too late. She showed no interest in Sarah when she was alive." My statement still stands. Jane doesn't need to be caring to every single character she meets.
Perhaps Jane froze for a couple of seconds given that Clementine let herself be devoured instead of attacking the walker, running away, nor asking for help; a brief disconnection from reality due to an abrupt shocking experience.
I know this is hard to believe, but Jane is not a demigod. She is human.
I love the second picture (in black and white)
Yep. And it gets even more messed up than that if you're paying attention: Jane says they were chased up to the roof of a building and they had to jump to the next rooftop to escape. Jane couldn't get Jaime to jump and she couldn't throw her(?), so she just left her there. After she got to safety, she waited a bit for Jaime to show up after following her but when she didn't show up, Jane just assumed the worst because she didn't have the guts to go back later to confirm whether Jaime did in fact get killed, turn, or may have gotten away and eventually convinced herself that it was for the best.
Think about that for a second.
Observation deck.
You know, that kinda loses power once you realize that's essentially what happens when she slaps Sarah.
Most of that stuff is somewhat true, as Jane tends to say and do things that are needlessly callous and coldblooded on a relatively small scale, sometimes with the best(by her standards, anyway) of intentions. Things like trying to convince Clementine to be able to take care of herself at everyone else's expense aren't necessarily evil and it could be somewhat tolerable as long as she does so in small doses and no one gets hurt. But that's the thing: a serious problem with Jane in general is she'll go too far too quick because she doesn't give things she doesn't like the benefit of a doubt and people do get hurt because of it; that all adds up pretty damn quick.
Sarah is pretty much a/the flagship example of that.
Ben determinately gets finished off by them if you drop him in the clock tower.
...What the fuck was that first thing or the thing at 0:38?!
Also, lol at Molly.
I love how pathetic the fight between Lee and The Stranger looks.
Also, lol at Carley.
Brock Samson?!
What's the game at 1:24?
Interesting tidbit about Leland there.
Yeah, well she picks the finest times to be human, then.
…in comparison to other characters who are never demigods, yes.
Shots fired.
So Jane didn't shoot a guy in the nuts despite pacifying him, try to put off looking for the missing three, pressured Clementine into leaving Sarah, aggressively categorized Sarah based on her own PTSD over her sister, stuckup Arvo and threatened him and Natasha, abandon Sarah despite having a gun on her person, left Luke to face the consequences alone after literally screwing him over, refused to own up to her part in some of the later problems, spoke ill of the dead to piss off Kenny, and ultimately got him/herself/both killed because she felt like she knew what was best? My mistake then. :P
Shots received.
I know. You didn't have to directly say that for me to reply to you.
Jane isnt the best but people go overboard with their hate for her, she isnt perfect but there are reasons behind all those actions she doesnt do it just to be evil or because shes a bitch
Personally ive never seen a scene so stupid as when she slaps sarah. If anything that would make sarah even more shrink away, especially given her past reaction to her dad hitting her, but no here all the terrified kid needed was a good smack round the face and problem solved. How they all get out after that when the walkers are already in the room also makes little sense.
Personally either someone else should have died due to sarah taking so long or sarah should have just flipped out even more and died anyway, it would have been better than that half assed second death which leaves the whole character having little point
The cause of the death would be Lee killing him since that is what did him in and if Lee pulls him up he doesn't die. If you fell from a 5 story building because someone tossed you off and a car ran you over we wouldn't blame the car.
What did you expect her to do...if they had to jump to escape...that tells me the walkers had a way to get to said roof...was she supposed to die with her sister? I mean are you actually blaming Jane for wanting to live? If the walkers were coming then it is logical to assume that a girl who had not shown any inclination for survival was in fact dead.
Not sure that's what that means, but whatever.
You're right: she's a bitch because she does those things. Often with an air of self-righteousness.
But for real though, I acknowledge its more a case of sloppy writing choices, unfortunate implications, and trying too hard to push her traditional archetypes in an attempt at pandering without putting enough thought in about whether it completely lines up or whether the story justifies it properly. She has an overwhelming number of negative traits and connotations about her that, when combined with intended positive traits that I feel are either superficial, tainted by uncomfortable baggage, or simply not emphasized enough, results in a lack of balance that makes her very hard to sympathize with after a point.
I'm sure some people can [and will] say the same about Kenny, especially in Season 2.
Isn't it weird that if you drop Ben, because he wanted to die, I could've sworn I heard him scream, "Lee! Please!" is this scream reused? Because the hanged walker was grabbing Ben and he shouted at Lee to shoot the walker with the same voice.
I usually don't agree with your opinions. But this here... this is good.
Better than never at all even after death, surely?
Yeah, that's what I call a case of nearly breaking the suspension of disbelief for a "good" cause. The idea is that slapping Sarah snaps her out of her PTSD fueled flashbacks long enough to focus on Clementine in disbelief that she would slap her and notice that the walkers are breaking in, thereby convincing her to leave due to having to react quickly to the problem after something else caught her offguard and got her to pay attention. The message of that scene is that sometimes you have hurt people in the short term in order to help them in the long term, The fact that Sarah determinately gives Clementine a look that seems to be understanding and always admits that she has a problem on the way back seem to reinforce that. Also, through the power of Youtube, I know that the walkers not killing them the moment they enter the room is a least somewhat consistent with the alternative: if you choose to leave Sarah, she has a solid 6-12 seconds to simply sit there watching Clementine and realize what's happening as the walkers break through the door and Clementine has enough time to be pulled up while giving Sarah a look of reluctance, getting settled, and getting into position to face Sarah before the walkers start attacking her in a narmy fashion as she decides to determinately apologize to her or simply look away(which none of the videos I've seen does, btw). I guess that gives me some reason not to completely dread my third playthrough of that episode.
Might just be the other things I watch/read/play talking, but I'm willing to forgive certain things or at least ignore them if something worthwhile comes out of it to make it feel justified: in this case, Clementine, Jane, and a lesser extent Luke and Sarah's characterizations. After spending a barebones episode having so little in the way of character that she can say things that don't make sense for her and has relatively little effect on the plot in favor of Kenny and technically Jane, Clementine gets rerailed into someone who has lost a people in spite or because of her kind nature and thus will do things she doesn't like having to do in the name of protecting as many of the people she cares about as possible, even losing her temper and slapping her friend so that she'll get the sloppily copped-outchance to keep moving forward with her life or reluctantly leaving one of the few people who seemed to like her purely for who she is to be killed by the herd so she can keep herself alive to make sure it happen to anyone else while being visibly devastated at having to make that choice. Interestingly enough, Sarah and Jane can both be considered the antagonists of that situation for causing and/or doing nothing to stop the conflict as a result of taking opposite extremes, which gives Jane some characterization by making her a foil to Sarah. And Luke really starts getting his development here, as the walk back has him express disappointment in himself for failing to get through to Sarah after hours and determinately letting Nick throw his life away, letting Clementine and technically Jane handle the situation of what to do with Sarah, and being quick to agree with Jane's method and get himself to safety as Sarah's determinate expense. Though I will say that I do kinda like the idea of Nick forcing her to leave if only because it gives a definitive chance to redeem himself, something I'm struggling to do in my personal rewrites.
Sarah "canon" death, on the other hand, blatantly breaks this four times over with little to no worthwhile results beyond shilling Jane as being "tragic" for all of 30 combined seconds and throwing away one of the nicest main characters from day one with no real closure for her arc despite the numerous little details that could've been utilized. Especially once you seen all three variations of that scene. Seriously, what the hell?
There are a lot of reasons to not like Jane but I would not put "shooting troy in the nuts" as one of them.
I always interpreted that line as a blatant lie, so that you don't have to admit to Chuck that there were so many human-caused losses in your group.
Yeah, Lee is definitely responsible for his death in the clocktower, but the walkers are the ones to actually kill him, as he's still clearly conscious, handicapped, and panicking when they surround him, thereby also making him a very technical example of "Walkers got 'em."
It's the same logic as saying Ben is responsible for Katjaa's death or Jane is responsible for Sarah's "canon" death.
Really? I don't really recall talking to or debating with you, but okay. Nice to hear it!
No, her wanting to live isn't the problem. I actually give her quite a bit of slack in that situation because she clearly didn't want to have to do that and had done everything she could to keep her sister alive beforehand, only leaving when it became clear that there really was nothing she could do in a undeniably hopeless situation. (Btw, I totally forgot to note that she didn't have the guts to go back later to confirm that Jaime did in fact get killed, turn, or may have gotten away. My bad!) It's the extremes she has accepted as being absolute to the point of not hesitating to do so as soon as possible that I take issue with.
Okay, maybe not a reason to dislike her in itself, but the air surrounding it is.
Oh I definitely think that's why they put it there.
It probably was.
Yeah because lets look at your thinking here...She escapes to the next roof..one we assume is safe from walkers...her sister is on a roof with walkers able to get to her. You are now throwing in a wild theory that her sister suddenly found a will to live and escaped somehow...and you go further to fault someone for not going back to a walker infested building...getting to a walker infested roof...and making sure her now walker sis is there. Thats your plan...escape and then go back into the same danger...and if she did find her sister alive...then what? The same damn problem.
You know, when you put it like that, maybe. After all, Jane and Clementine essentially do the same thing in her ending, so...nah, they wouldn't do that. ...Would they?
Anyway, the way she explained it made me question whether she's been deluding herself longer than I thought or if her sister did die, just really quietly.
What was interesting about Leland?