Iit was my favourite story and protagonist, solely because it was a more original and interesting theme than the rest ('Hurrrr, dhurrrrr!! Begining of the apocalypse!!! Hurrr, dhurrrrr!! Negan 2.0!').
Agreed. FUCKING A Agreed! Even though I have a special appreciation for Danny and Shel (and maybe Tavia and even Becca), Bonnie gave me a similar feeling that Sarah did, just not as pronounced. Seeing Dee's facejob will do that to ya.
Kenny -
I was first presented to this game through the playthrough of a certain youtuber who sided with Kenny throughout Season 1 (funnly … moreenough, she hated him in Season 2). She even got him to conditionally go with her at the end of episode 4 (and oh boi, the shit you have to do to get that!), therefore my first impression of Kenny was a good one, a very good one. I liked him at this point.
Then, I moved on to the The Walking Dead wikia, and that was the first time I got involved with the Telltale community. Hardcore pizza vs ice cream shit was going on. Well, your first tendency in this sort of situation is to pick a side. And so I did. I defended the pizza throughout the whole Season, until the very end (and don't ask me how, I just did). At this point, I really liked Kenny, like, hardcore liking.
The Season ended, I was with Kenny in the icy woods, and life moved on. I joined this wonderful thing called telltale.com, and started havin… [view original content]
I am not proposing that killing people to eat their flesh afterwards, in our situation of people who have access to internet, is acceptable, because we kill somebody and there was no necessity to do so at all; but the act itself of cannibalism is not immoral, in my opinion.
I agree that it's a disgusting thought.
Also... Just a question, do you think Mark's legs looked tasty...?
I am displeased that I'm considered a freak for analyzing the morality of something that most people immediately take as wrong without spending five minutes thinking.
Also, I find that offensive, but I'm not bothered.
I am no way proposing that it should be accepted as common practice, though I strongly believe that social norms should be put aside if we were, for example, members of a starving group of survivors in the apocalypse; if somebody without a living relative died due to a cause unrelated to the walker bite, we would have to be willing to disrespect the conscience of said dead person in order to survive.
That's how I believe the principle translates to our own world! Cannibalism can be wrong because we disrespect the dead person's past identity and the mourning family and friends, but, universally, cannibalism isn't always wrong just because it is cannibalism.
I am asking what is inherently wrong about cannibalism; why it would be immoral for a group of stranded people to eat the flesh of somebody … morewho is already dead when the alternative is to starve. I'm not condoning eating people on a regular basis!
I'm looking forward to a bit of discussion on this!
Walter: I didn't pay much attention to him the first time I played what with Kenny being there and Carver chasing us. As a result, I was neutral toward him. The second time I played, I noticed he is pretty rounded for having a bit part. There are a couple of different things that could have been done with him. It was also cool to have a realistic probably-gay character. :-))
Luke: I've never been a huge Luke fan, but I have come to have a quiet appreciation for him, especially in contrast to Kenny's recklessness.
Kenny: I didn't like Kenny in season 1. In season 2, he was almost intolerable. Now that I've thought more about his motivations, I like him a little more. He did what he thought was best and no one can deny he would have died for Clementine and A.J.
Diminished:
Jane: I still like her, but I've realised she's not as independent or as mentally sound as she wanted us to think. Looking back over my interactions with her, she seemed to want Clementine to herself. She tried to manipulate Clem and Kenny.
freaks
I am displeased that I'm considered a freak for analyzing the morality of something that most people immediately take as wrong without spending five minutes thinking.
Also, I find that offensive, but I'm not bothered.
why it would be immoral for a group of stranded people to eat the flesh of somebody who is already dead when the alternative is to starve
You bring up a good point. Why would you want to starve to death if there is someone that is already dead that you can eat? The problem with that is that you are rooting for someone to die in your group first so the rest can live. That is a grey decision.
It won't be wrong if you think about it as the same as getting a organ from a organ donnor. He's dead and doesn't need the organ, you do. I can put the organ in my body to sustain my life, but the line is crossed if I put the same organ to sustain my life in my mouth?
Cannibalism that involves murdering the person first is never just. If there just happens to be a body there that is dead and no alternative and you and co are stranded in a dessert, take it. But even then, that is grey choice that only the whole group or the person with the gun can make.
(P.S. Clementine eats Human meat determinantly. I wonder that would ever come up in conversation?)
(During the Wellington ending. Edith becomes Clem's foster mom)
Edith: Eat Your Vegetables!
Clem: I rather eat people. Your not my mom. You can't tell me what to do.
I am asking what is inherently wrong about cannibalism; why it would be immoral for a group of stranded people to eat the flesh of somebody … morewho is already dead when the alternative is to starve. I'm not condoning eating people on a regular basis!
I'm looking forward to a bit of discussion on this!
(P.S. Clementine eats Human meat determinantly. I wonder that would ever come up in conversation?)
(During the Wellington ending. Edith becomes Clem's foster mom)
Edith: Eat Your Vegetables!
Clem: I rather eat people. Your not my mom. You can't tell me what to do.
Thank you for reminding me that that is a thing. Javier better brush first.
why it would be immoral for a group of stranded people to eat the flesh of somebody who is already dead when the alternative is to starve
… more
You bring up a good point. Why would you want to starve to death if there is someone that is already dead that you can eat? The problem with that is that you are rooting for someone to die in your group first so the rest can live. That is a grey decision.
It won't be wrong if you think about it as the same as getting a organ from a organ donnor. He's dead and doesn't need the organ, you do. I can put the organ in my body to sustain my life, but the line is crossed if I put the same organ to sustain my life in my mouth?
Cannibalism that involves murdering the person first is never just. If there just happens to be a body there that is dead and no alternative and you and co are stranded in a dessert, take it. But even then, that is grey choice that only the whole group or the person with the gun… [view original content]
(P.S. Clementine eats Human meat determinantly. I wonder that would ever come up in conversation?)
(During the Wellington ending. Edith b… moreecomes Clem's foster mom)
Edith: Eat Your Vegetables!
Clem: I rather eat people. Your not my mom. You can't tell me what to do.
Thank you for reminding me that that is a thing. Javier better brush first.
Yes, it has to do with some sort of proteins (don't know the term in english), because the cow fodder was made out of like rest products from other slaughtered cows, I've heard a radio program about certain tribes that has a tradition of eating deceased relatives, and they sometimes show symptoms of what looks like mad cow disease because of the cannibalism. I think this applies to all animals, at least mammals.
Improved
Nick- I also didn't really get into Nick initially, but I've since done some digging to attempt to understand his character. Basically, I believe those who really like him really identified with his dilemma and felt for him once they understood his mindset; it definitely helps that his character arc was reminiscent of those in Season 1 in that it developed as the story progressed rather than progressing the story like with Kenny in the same season. While I won't say he's a favorite of mine, I can clearly see why people really love him and I agree that he definitely shouldn't have been forgotten about the way he was.
Yes, it has to do with some sort of proteins (don't know the term in english), because the cow fodder was made out of like rest products fro… morem other slaughtered cows, I've heard a radio program about certain tribes that has a tradition of eating deceased relatives, and they sometimes show symptoms of what looks like mad cow disease because of the cannibalism. I think this applies to all animals, at least mammals.
Improved
Carlos was an obvious unintentionally unsympathetic example given his lack of worthwhile redeeming qualities outside of his protectiveness of Sarah and later Clementine. He does actually have something resembling an arc, but similar to Luke and Alvin, his character isn't really given much time to be properly explained and thus his lack of immediate redeeming qualities causes most people to deride him despite his not being a bad person.
However, I've since grown accustomed to his faults and made my peace with him (mentally of course, since he's kinda parking lot food). He served his purpose fairly well, which is more than some can say for a few other characters. His death had an actual effect on the characters, but immediately and in the next episode, with Sarah having a breakdown(that she wasn't given the chance to recover from, unfortunately), Rebecca didn't have her doctor handy to deliver her baby, leading to Jane starting the conflict with the Russians, Luke getting his character development, and Kenny actually contributing the established plot watching over Rebecca.
With that said, it's entirely possible that some of the buggery that occurred in Amid the Ruins and by extension No Going Back wouldn't have happened had he lived. Going off the speculation of the possible original plan for the story, I do believe Kenny took a quite few roles and scenes that were probably meant for other characters but especially Carlos.(Also, it reminds me that Sarah and Sarita are technically the same name. )
Hmmm...let's see.
I remember liking Kenny as soon as he appeared...yep that hasn't changed.
I remember hating Lilly and Larry as soon as… more they appeared.....yep that hasn't changed.
I remember liking Luke as soon as he appeared....yep that hasn't changed.
I didn't dislike Jane from the start. In fact I found it kinda cool that an angry loner cared for Clem. But I hated her after I learned about her plans and now I don't like her at all during any scene when I'm replaying.
I remember hating Arvo......yep that hasn't changed.
Yep not much! :P
Improved:
Lilly - I actually used to really dislike Lilly when I first played through the game. Heck, I even ditched her after she killed Doug. But, after playing through the game again and realizing how great of a character she is, she is now my favorite.
Diminished:
Kenny - He was an okay guy throughout season 1 episodes 1-3, but after he murdered Larry and got mad at me for not helping him murder an unconscious man, it just went all downhill from there. His appearance in season 2 was just downright awful.
Improved
Lilly: Okay, so this is a funny little thing that goes back to my first impressions of the game back in like 2013: I never really hated Lilly. In fact, while I do have a few issues with her, the reception she tends get did kinda annoy me a bit; particularly where Carley, Kenny, and sometimes Larry are concerned. However, I usually touted her as a defining example of one of the worse things someone can do and thus, a character who pushed one of my Berserk Buttons in this games series: killing someone who was supposed to be your friend and therefore, should've been able to trust you. Maybe its part of my not-so recent dislike for Kenny(which again, kinda annoys me, so I'll do my best to leave it out), maybe its taking the time to think about things from her perspective, or maybe it's my 3rd/current "Pragmatic Lee" playthrough speaking the loudest, but I was asking myself:
I said, "Self?"
And myself said, "Hmm?"
And I said, "Why do I find myself liking Lilly and not Jane, cause they're kinda similar?
And myself said the obvious answer: She's not a hypocritical sociopath!
I mean sure, she tends to be a little too brusque about her authority, comes off as more strict than she needed to, and what she did to Carley and especially Doug was very hard to overlook/forgive at the time, but when I really think about it, Lilly wasn't an inherently horrible person. Not to mention she actually has a fair number of positive qualities that aren't mostly superficial: she's not TOO ugly(That isn't an actual reason, so just kidding...mostly), she has a nice brain controlling her, she knows how to take charge, she clearly put the stability of the group before herself, she really did love Larry even if she was pretty honest about his being an asshole enough to try to talk against him a few times, she apparently took some time out to just sorta...be nice to Clementine, and it just seems like she needed to blow off some steam at times. I really do feel for her loss of Larry, having to look his killer in the face everyday, her desperate attempts to save the group, and the fact that I left her behind in a moment of intolerance, its just that she ultimately went about it the wrong way and snapped in a way that hurt/killed the very people she was trying to protect. She's not a favorite by any means, but as it stands, she's beautiful just the way she is/was.
I originally really liked Jane and the only reason I let her die was because I preferred Kenny. I wasn't happy she had to die, but now, after having time to think about it, what she did was disgusting and manipulative. Kenny had genuine love for Clem and AJ, whereas Jane put the baby in danger to prove a point which was, what, that Kenny would get mad if you were meant to mind this baby and it just so happened to die in your care? No shit he would go ballistic, that's just fatherly instinct. Think about it, you trusted this woman with caring for this small person which is the only reason you are even trying anymore and then she shows up without the baby? I honestly loath that any person could ever do that and I am so happy I chose Kenny over Jane.
I originally really liked Jane and the only reason I let her die was because I preferred Kenny. I wasn't happy she had to die, but now, afte… morer having time to think about it, what she did was disgusting and manipulative. Kenny had genuine love for Clem and AJ, whereas Jane put the baby in danger to prove a point which was, what, that Kenny would get mad if you were meant to mind this baby and it just so happened to die in your care? No shit he would go ballistic, that's just fatherly instinct. Think about it, you trusted this woman with caring for this small person which is the only reason you are even trying anymore and then she shows up without the baby? I honestly loath that any person could ever do that and I am so happy I chose Kenny over Jane.
Whoops I think I accidentally dropped something.
I originally really liked Jane and the only reason I let her die was because I preferred Kenny. I wasn't happy she had to die, but now, afte… morer having time to think about it, what she did was disgusting and manipulative. Kenny had genuine love for Clem and AJ, whereas Jane put the baby in danger to prove a point which was, what, that Kenny would get mad if you were meant to mind this baby and it just so happened to die in your care? No shit he would go ballistic, that's just fatherly instinct. Think about it, you trusted this woman with caring for this small person which is the only reason you are even trying anymore and then she shows up without the baby? I honestly loath that any person could ever do that and I am so happy I chose Kenny over Jane.
Whoops I think I accidentally dropped something.
I originally really liked Jane and the only reason I let her die was because I preferred Kenny. I wasn't happy she had to die, but now, afte… morer having time to think about it, what she did was disgusting and manipulative. Kenny had genuine love for Clem and AJ, whereas Jane put the baby in danger to prove a point which was, what, that Kenny would get mad if you were meant to mind this baby and it just so happened to die in your care? No shit he would go ballistic, that's just fatherly instinct. Think about it, you trusted this woman with caring for this small person which is the only reason you are even trying anymore and then she shows up without the baby? I honestly loath that any person could ever do that and I am so happy I chose Kenny over Jane.
Whoops I think I accidentally dropped something.
I quite liked Jane when I first started interacting with her. The whole sisters dynamic between Clem and Jane was a nice touch, and I really enjoyed watching that joyous friendship unfold between them. Oh, the banter they had, and the jolly joke about sheep that got cut out - seriously, though, that would've been wonderful to hear. I can just picture Clementine being like, "Oh. That's cool, Jane. I think..."
Unfortunately, that appreciation for her didn't extend far enough for me to want to shoot Kenny. Shame.
However, every time I play through Season Two, I find myself hesitating more and more on what's the right call to make. And I find myself agreeing with Jane's perspective on Kenny more than I disagree with it. God, I love these games. Having played through the endings a fair few times now, I can't help but feel that the Jane endings - while undoubtedly lacking in emotion, at least to me - are the ones that are the most certain of the future, if that makes sense? I feel Clementine's best bet is setting up shop in Howe's, the more and more I think about it. At least, that's my opinion!
Also, I was delighted when Jane called Clementine "partner". It was just too wonderful.
Diminished - Ooh, I like that word!
Carver, from a narrative standpoint.
Now, I like his voice acting. Gravelly, mean, very manly. And I like his coat - it looks so warm and fluffy! But I feel he was sort of ... Squandered? I loved the build up to him - Luke asking Clementine if the bandits were asking for names, the whole group freaking out and worrying if Clementine is actually a spy, Nick revealing a little bit about Carver's personality with the river scene - I was hyped to meet him! And the confrontation with him in the cabin, and you as the player having to answer his questions while perhaps not giving too much away - Oh my giddy aunt, I loved that scene. But after that, I felt he started to deteriorate.
See, I feel with Carver, the rule of "less is more" absolutely applies. This faceless entity chasing your group - I mean, I was terrified about meeting him! But that went away during episode three, where he was just shown over and over and over and over and over again. And that whole "We're more alike than you think." talk - I'm sorry, but I thought that was so forced and over the top. She's eleven for goodness sake! If they kept him as being this faceless villain, just far enough away that we can't see him but close enough that we know he's there, I feel that would have made him a fair bit more compelling. At least to me.
Sorry for the long post, and if it seems a bit scatterbrained.
Improved
Mariana-Okay, while I didn't really care about her any less than some of the other new characters, Mariana was a character I somewhat [un]regretfully labeled as overrated just because I faux-assumed people loved her so much because she was struck down by Badger instead of her brother, as I didn't really remember too much about her. But when I made a thread that ranked the ANF characters, I had already decided that she was one of my least favorite characters alongside Tripp and Badger for being a primary testament to how shallow the story has been so far. Like, I appreciate nice characters as much as if not more than the next guy, but Mariana was a little boring and a little too easy for her influence on the story from my standpoint, as she, while likable and sympathetic, didn't have much screentime(5-10 minutes) or to a lesser extent character to her beyond being the cute niece for her "hot" uncle to look cool talking to before she cut down in her "innocence" by the "pure evil" villain Badger. I mean, if this was just any other game or movie with zombies or whatever, I'd probably wouldn't care, but this is a glorified spinoff of TellTale's Award-winning Walking Dead Game Series; call me lightly spoiled, but I expect a little better than that.
However, I've finally had decided to revisit the game for the first time since middish-January to reevaluate the characters and story based on what standards I had set over the following months and got a few small changing results, with Mariana being one of them. I recall seeing a few people claim she was the most interesting new character and (taking off the pedestal-based superlative, of course) I will say I sorta see what they were getting at. In addition to being Clementine 1.7(that's not much of a knock) and expressing concern about the Kate and Gabe treat each other, I noticed that the let's say 'frivolous' aspect of her character was more significant than just loving candy bars(an admittedly defining trait itself): an optional conversation I must have missed has her mention not wanting to forget something like a bedtime story she found dumb because it's like losing part of her...--that's pretty damn neat!
While the frivolous side character shtick(which I really enjoy, btw) has technically been done with characters like Michelle, Sarah, and Sarita, that right there is the kinda stuff I wouldn't have minded seeing more of and actually puts on her par with Gabe pretending to be snooty(Is that the right word?) but admitting that he really misses being able to meet/interact with new people or maybe even Kate setting aside periods where she vents out her anxiety of their current lifestyle failing at the wrong moment. And it almost makes me feel bad that she still has to rank kinda low because her character is not as importance as her plot relevance, which just reinforces my thoughts about not not letting being dramatic and shocking come before being entertaining and enjoyable. I mean, if anyone was gonna get shot, I do think she was the best candidate for that purpose, but I don't really like what that's amounted to so far. So, while I still have to rank her pretty low, she at least has that added to the few elements I did like about her to begin with over Tripp and Badger.
Diminished
Badger-Like many of the characters in A New Frontier, I didn't care about this bearded bandit because there was barely anything about him worth thinking about. However, by the time I decided to create a thread rating everyone's opinions of the ANF cast, this asshole was definitely at the absolute bottom for combining the same basic problems I had with Mariana and Tripp: being such a blatant plot device that he's barely in the first episode and barely having any real character or purpose beyond being a diabolus ex machina that just shows up, kills someone, fucks shit up, and then just disappears from harm's way when it's [in]convenient. While we've had sadistic survivors before(Carver and Randall specifically), they at least had some hints of actual character or greater purpose in the plot. He's purely there to make everything worse by doing things Max would never do without good justification, be a hate sink because of that, and nothing else--and they spent over HALF of that over a minute long trailer on this waste of space! I just DO not care for Badger at all and I seriously hope they manage pull something out of their ass to make him interesting.
Kenny, however, became insufferable and intolerable in Season 2. His actions and behavior had diminished whatever respect I had of him in Season 1. I wouldn't have found his so unlikable if it wasn't for my suspicion that the writers in Season 2 had really favored him over other characters to the point where he could be perceived as a wish-fulfillment archetype who garnered way more credit and attention than he really deserved.
Back in Season 1 I used to dislike Lilly and Larry in their first appearances, but after some time I've come to understand them more as I lo… moreoked in their characters from a different perspective. I've forgiven them both for their actions, and I've come to sympathies with Lilly's role in Season 1 and consider her one of my favorite characters of the Telltale series.
As for Season 2 while I still don't care for Jane and her inclusion in the cast overshadowing other characters, I don't really hate her as much as I did in the past as I had discovered some different sides of her that helped me understand her actions more.
Kenny, however, became insufferable and intolerable in Season 2. His actions and behavior had diminished whatever respect I had of him in Season 1. I wouldn't have found his so unlikable if it wasn't for my suspicion that the writers in Season 2 had really favored him over other characters to the point where he could be perc… [view original content]
That's an accurate post.
I am no way proposing that it should be accepted as common practice, though I strongly believe that social norms… more should be put aside if we were, for example, members of a starving group of survivors in the apocalypse; if somebody without a living relative died due to a cause unrelated to the walker bite, we would have to be willing to disrespect the conscience of said dead person in order to survive.
That's how I believe the principle translates to our own world! Cannibalism can be wrong because we disrespect the dead person's past identity and the mourning family and friends, but, universally, cannibalism isn't always wrong just because it is cannibalism.
Comments
...Cripes. :O_O:
Interesting to hear you used to love Kenny.
Agreed. FUCKING A Agreed! Even though I have a special appreciation for Danny and Shel (and maybe Tavia and even Becca), Bonnie gave me a similar feeling that Sarah did, just not as pronounced. Seeing Dee's facejob will do that to ya.
Why is the act itself wrong? Just because?
I am not proposing that killing people to eat their flesh afterwards, in our situation of people who have access to internet, is acceptable, because we kill somebody and there was no necessity to do so at all; but the act itself of cannibalism is not immoral, in my opinion.
I agree that it's a disgusting thought.
“Get out.”
I am displeased that I'm considered a freak for analyzing the morality of something that most people immediately take as wrong without spending five minutes thinking.
Also, I find that offensive, but I'm not bothered.
That's an accurate post.
I am no way proposing that it should be accepted as common practice, though I strongly believe that social norms should be put aside if we were, for example, members of a starving group of survivors in the apocalypse; if somebody without a living relative died due to a cause unrelated to the walker bite, we would have to be willing to disrespect the conscience of said dead person in order to survive.
That's how I believe the principle translates to our own world! Cannibalism can be wrong because we disrespect the dead person's past identity and the mourning family and friends, but, universally, cannibalism isn't always wrong just because it is cannibalism.
Just putting it out there, but if we all become stranded and the only option is to eat my lifeless body. Everyone here has my permission to eat me.
That's strangely selfless.
[Pretends to coincide; nods in agreement.]
Improved:
Walter: I didn't pay much attention to him the first time I played what with Kenny being there and Carver chasing us. As a result, I was neutral toward him. The second time I played, I noticed he is pretty rounded for having a bit part. There are a couple of different things that could have been done with him. It was also cool to have a realistic probably-gay character. :-))
Luke: I've never been a huge Luke fan, but I have come to have a quiet appreciation for him, especially in contrast to Kenny's recklessness.
Kenny: I didn't like Kenny in season 1. In season 2, he was almost intolerable. Now that I've thought more about his motivations, I like him a little more. He did what he thought was best and no one can deny he would have died for Clementine and A.J.
Diminished:
Jane: I still like her, but I've realised she's not as independent or as mentally sound as she wanted us to think. Looking back over my interactions with her, she seemed to want Clementine to herself. She tried to manipulate Clem and Kenny.
I'm sorry, I was just joking. I didn't mean to offend anyone.
You bring up a good point. Why would you want to starve to death if there is someone that is already dead that you can eat? The problem with that is that you are rooting for someone to die in your group first so the rest can live. That is a grey decision.
It won't be wrong if you think about it as the same as getting a organ from a organ donnor. He's dead and doesn't need the organ, you do. I can put the organ in my body to sustain my life, but the line is crossed if I put the same organ to sustain my life in my mouth?
Cannibalism that involves murdering the person first is never just. If there just happens to be a body there that is dead and no alternative and you and co are stranded in a dessert, take it. But even then, that is grey choice that only the whole group or the person with the gun can make.
(P.S. Clementine eats Human meat determinantly. I wonder that would ever come up in conversation?)
(During the Wellington ending. Edith becomes Clem's foster mom)
Edith: Eat Your Vegetables!
Clem: I rather eat people. Your not my mom. You can't tell me what to do.
Thank you for reminding me that that is a thing. Javier better brush first.
I don't get it
Huh. I don't either.
Guess I got it backwards.
Yes, it has to do with some sort of proteins (don't know the term in english), because the cow fodder was made out of like rest products from other slaughtered cows, I've heard a radio program about certain tribes that has a tradition of eating deceased relatives, and they sometimes show symptoms of what looks like mad cow disease because of the cannibalism. I think this applies to all animals, at least mammals.
Improved
Nick- I also didn't really get into Nick initially, but I've since done some digging to attempt to understand his character. Basically, I believe those who really like him really identified with his dilemma and felt for him once they understood his mindset; it definitely helps that his character arc was reminiscent of those in Season 1 in that it developed as the story progressed rather than progressing the story like with Kenny in the same season. While I won't say he's a favorite of mine, I can clearly see why people really love him and I agree that he definitely shouldn't have been forgotten about the way he was.
Diminished
No one I can think of at the moment.
Da hell?
Improved
Carlos was an obvious unintentionally unsympathetic example given his lack of worthwhile redeeming qualities outside of his protectiveness of Sarah and later Clementine. He does actually have something resembling an arc, but similar to Luke and Alvin, his character isn't really given much time to be properly explained and thus his lack of immediate redeeming qualities causes most people to deride him despite his not being a bad person.
However, I've since grown accustomed to his faults and made my peace with him (mentally of course, since he's kinda parking lot food). He served his purpose fairly well, which is more than some can say for a few other characters. His death had an actual effect on the characters, but immediately and in the next episode, with Sarah having a breakdown(that she wasn't given the chance to recover from, unfortunately), Rebecca didn't have her doctor handy to deliver her baby, leading to Jane starting the conflict with the Russians, Luke getting his character development, and Kenny actually contributing the established plot watching over Rebecca.
With that said, it's entirely possible that some of the buggery that occurred in Amid the Ruins and by extension No Going Back wouldn't have happened had he lived. Going off the speculation of the possible original plan for the story, I do believe Kenny took a quite few roles and scenes that were probably meant for other characters but especially Carlos.(Also, it reminds me that Sarah and Sarita are technically the same name.
)
Yup
Specifically the brain, if I remember correctly.
Wow, how boring.
Kinda late there man.
I know.
Improved:
Lilly - I actually used to really dislike Lilly when I first played through the game. Heck, I even ditched her after she killed Doug. But, after playing through the game again and realizing how great of a character she is, she is now my favorite.
Diminished:
Kenny - He was an okay guy throughout season 1 episodes 1-3, but after he murdered Larry and got mad at me for not helping him murder an unconscious man, it just went all downhill from there. His appearance in season 2 was just downright awful.
Improved
Lilly: Okay, so this is a funny little thing that goes back to my first impressions of the game back in like 2013: I never really hated Lilly. In fact, while I do have a few issues with her, the reception she tends get did kinda annoy me a bit; particularly where Carley, Kenny, and sometimes Larry are concerned. However, I usually touted her as a defining example of one of the worse things someone can do and thus, a character who pushed one of my Berserk Buttons in this games series: killing someone who was supposed to be your friend and therefore, should've been able to trust you. Maybe its part of my not-so recent dislike for Kenny(which again, kinda annoys me, so I'll do my best to leave it out), maybe its taking the time to think about things from her perspective, or maybe it's my 3rd/current "Pragmatic Lee" playthrough speaking the loudest, but I was asking myself:
I said, "Self?"
And myself said, "Hmm?"
And I said, "Why do I find myself liking Lilly and not Jane, cause they're kinda similar?
And myself said the obvious answer: She's not a hypocritical sociopath!
I mean sure, she tends to be a little too brusque about her authority, comes off as more strict than she needed to, and what she did to Carley and especially Doug was very hard to overlook/forgive at the time, but when I really think about it, Lilly wasn't an inherently horrible person. Not to mention she actually has a fair number of positive qualities that aren't mostly superficial: she's not TOO ugly(That isn't an actual reason, so just kidding...mostly), she has a nice brain controlling her, she knows how to take charge, she clearly put the stability of the group before herself, she really did love Larry even if she was pretty honest about his being an asshole enough to try to talk against him a few times, she apparently took some time out to just sorta...be nice to Clementine, and it just seems like she needed to blow off some steam at times. I really do feel for her loss of Larry, having to look his killer in the face everyday, her desperate attempts to save the group, and the fact that I left her behind in a moment of intolerance, its just that she ultimately went about it the wrong way and snapped in a way that hurt/killed the very people she was trying to protect. She's not a favorite by any means, but as it stands, she's beautiful just the way she is/was.
You know what?
I don't know. I(or my browser) probably fucked up on either replying to someone or posting in a different thread.
I originally really liked Jane and the only reason I let her die was because I preferred Kenny. I wasn't happy she had to die, but now, after having time to think about it, what she did was disgusting and manipulative. Kenny had genuine love for Clem and AJ, whereas Jane put the baby in danger to prove a point which was, what, that Kenny would get mad if you were meant to mind this baby and it just so happened to die in your care? No shit he would go ballistic, that's just fatherly instinct. Think about it, you trusted this woman with caring for this small person which is the only reason you are even trying anymore and then she shows up without the baby? I honestly loath that any person could ever do that and I am so happy I chose Kenny over Jane.
Whoops I think I accidentally dropped something.
Could you please remove that thingy?
Or at the very least, link it to your last sentence.
I thought similar but Jane was still one of my favorites.
What thingy? The picture?
Yes, most likely. At the very least, you can still link it to your last sentence and remove the picture here.
Improved - I like them now!
My secret sister! I mean, uhm, Jaaaaaane.
I quite liked Jane when I first started interacting with her. The whole sisters dynamic between Clem and Jane was a nice touch, and I really enjoyed watching that joyous friendship unfold between them. Oh, the banter they had, and the jolly joke about sheep that got cut out - seriously, though, that would've been wonderful to hear. I can just picture Clementine being like, "Oh. That's cool, Jane. I think..."
Unfortunately, that appreciation for her didn't extend far enough for me to want to shoot Kenny. Shame.
However, every time I play through Season Two, I find myself hesitating more and more on what's the right call to make. And I find myself agreeing with Jane's perspective on Kenny more than I disagree with it. God, I love these games. Having played through the endings a fair few times now, I can't help but feel that the Jane endings - while undoubtedly lacking in emotion, at least to me - are the ones that are the most certain of the future, if that makes sense? I feel Clementine's best bet is setting up shop in Howe's, the more and more I think about it. At least, that's my opinion!
Also, I was delighted when Jane called Clementine "partner". It was just too wonderful.
Diminished - Ooh, I like that word!
Carver, from a narrative standpoint.
Now, I like his voice acting. Gravelly, mean, very manly. And I like his coat - it looks so warm and fluffy! But I feel he was sort of ... Squandered? I loved the build up to him - Luke asking Clementine if the bandits were asking for names, the whole group freaking out and worrying if Clementine is actually a spy, Nick revealing a little bit about Carver's personality with the river scene - I was hyped to meet him! And the confrontation with him in the cabin, and you as the player having to answer his questions while perhaps not giving too much away - Oh my giddy aunt, I loved that scene. But after that, I felt he started to deteriorate.
See, I feel with Carver, the rule of "less is more" absolutely applies. This faceless entity chasing your group - I mean, I was terrified about meeting him! But that went away during episode three, where he was just shown over and over and over and over and over again. And that whole "We're more alike than you think." talk - I'm sorry, but I thought that was so forced and over the top. She's eleven for goodness sake! If they kept him as being this faceless villain, just far enough away that we can't see him but close enough that we know he's there, I feel that would have made him a fair bit more compelling. At least to me.
Sorry for the long post, and if it seems a bit scatterbrained.
How fitting.
Improved
Mariana-Okay, while I didn't really care about her any less than some of the other new characters, Mariana was a character I somewhat [un]regretfully labeled as overrated just because I faux-assumed people loved her so much because she was struck down by Badger instead of her brother, as I didn't really remember too much about her. But when I made a thread that ranked the ANF characters, I had already decided that she was one of my least favorite characters alongside Tripp and Badger for being a primary testament to how shallow the story has been so far. Like, I appreciate nice characters as much as if not more than the next guy, but Mariana was a little boring and a little too easy for her influence on the story from my standpoint, as she, while likable and sympathetic, didn't have much screentime(5-10 minutes) or to a lesser extent character to her beyond being the cute niece for her "hot" uncle to look cool talking to before she cut down in her "innocence" by the "pure evil" villain Badger. I mean, if this was just any other game or movie with zombies or whatever, I'd probably wouldn't care, but this is a glorified spinoff of TellTale's Award-winning Walking Dead Game Series; call me lightly spoiled, but I expect a little better than that.
However, I've finally had decided to revisit the game for the first time since middish-January to reevaluate the characters and story based on what standards I had set over the following months and got a few small changing results, with Mariana being one of them. I recall seeing a few people claim she was the most interesting new character and (taking off the pedestal-based superlative, of course) I will say I sorta see what they were getting at. In addition to being Clementine 1.7(that's not much of a knock) and expressing concern about the Kate and Gabe treat each other, I noticed that the let's say 'frivolous' aspect of her character was more significant than just loving candy bars(an admittedly defining trait itself): an optional conversation I must have missed has her mention not wanting to forget something like a bedtime story she found dumb because it's like losing part of her...--that's pretty damn neat!
While the frivolous side character shtick(which I really enjoy, btw) has technically been done with characters like Michelle, Sarah, and Sarita, that right there is the kinda stuff I wouldn't have minded seeing more of and actually puts on her par with Gabe pretending to be snooty(Is that the right word?) but admitting that he really misses being able to meet/interact with new people or maybe even Kate setting aside periods where she vents out her anxiety of their current lifestyle failing at the wrong moment. And it almost makes me feel bad that she still has to rank kinda low because her character is not as importance as her plot relevance, which just reinforces my thoughts about not not letting being dramatic and shocking come before being entertaining and enjoyable. I mean, if anyone was gonna get shot, I do think she was the best candidate for that purpose, but I don't really like what that's amounted to so far. So, while I still have to rank her pretty low, she at least has that added to the few elements I did like about her to begin with over Tripp and Badger.
Diminished
Badger-Like many of the characters in A New Frontier, I didn't care about this bearded bandit because there was barely anything about him worth thinking about. However, by the time I decided to create a thread rating everyone's opinions of the ANF cast, this asshole was definitely at the absolute bottom for combining the same basic problems I had with Mariana and Tripp: being such a blatant plot device that he's barely in the first episode and barely having any real character or purpose beyond being a diabolus ex machina that just shows up, kills someone, fucks shit up, and then just disappears from harm's way when it's [in]convenient. While we've had sadistic survivors before(Carver and Randall specifically), they at least had some hints of actual character or greater purpose in the plot. He's purely there to make everything worse by doing things Max would never do without good justification, be a hate sink because of that, and nothing else--and they spent over HALF of that over a minute long trailer on this waste of space! I just DO not care for Badger at all and I seriously hope they manage pull something out of their ass to make him interesting.
Well, as it turns out, I don't really have much of a upturned nose for anyone in the game EXCEPT for Kenny.
He used to be a great guy, but then he just turned sour as the episodes and seasons went on.
Yeah, I've started to get that feeling myself.
No I heard about it too on Coast to Coast AM
You should check out the movies Ravenous and Aive. One is a true story.
Wrong person?
Bumping this in case someone wants to do something similar to @RobertMorgan.