Javier is somewhat understandable because of the hype around the upcoming Season and they're looking forward to seeing his interactions with Clementine.
Very few people have said that Rebecca was one of their favorite characters and most do point out her problems.
I'm afraid your labeling of Michelle makes little to no sense. People describing a character based on what's observable doesn't immediately say whether they like them or not, at least not usually; as far as I know, I'm the only person who considers her to be one of their favorite characters of Season 2 and for good reason. With that said, everything about Michelle's presence in the first episode suggests that she was just a nihilistic thief who was trying too hard to be intimidating so that Clementine would allow her to do her stuff. The fact she coldly hand-waves her actions ("You gotta be mean to keep goin' out here") while wearing the cutest pink jacket she could find makes this hilariously apparent.
Some have mentioned that she was holding the gun in an unprofessional manner and the various dialogue options you have during that scene hints that she's really just a poser trying to hide her own insecurities about being on her own in the world of the Walking Dead. Clementine claiming that she killed someone to get her hat will have Michelle briefly show fear before trying to laugh it off and Clementine being defiant in general has her become annoyed and threatening but she eventually just drops the issue and despite having control of the situation, she backs off anyway. Even her calling Clementine "little fish" and insulting her picture of Kenny/Lee can be seen as her trying to psyche Clementine out and devaluing the things she cares about making herself feel meaner than a simple bully.
She only shot Omid because the closing door startled them both and she freaked out due to how close he was. Her reaction of shock and horror makes it apparent that she was never planning on actually shooting anyone and she drops the gun completely and apologetically surrenders despite the fact that Christa hadn't actually noticed her yet, when she could've easily taken advantage of her sorrow over seeing Omid's body to either kill her as well or simply run away.
Katjaa. Javier is already to loved and s3 isnt out yet, Rebecca was terrible (imo) and she doesnt get much hate, but I dont hate her as much… more as Michelle for various reasons. Shes overrated because people try and say it wasnt her fault or she didnt mean to shoot Omid but truly it was as she was threatening to a little girl to begin with and was willing to shoot a little girl. I think alot of people like Omid other than just his humor as I thought he was actually a well scripted that was killed off to fast
you cant actually tell me you like Michelle she was still an asshole to a little girl, threatening to shoot her, took her things, and called Lee (in Michelles mind her dad) a bozo.
Javier is somewhat understandable because of the hype around the upcoming Season and they're looking forward to seeing his interactions with… more Clementine.
Very few people have said that Rebecca was one of their favorite characters and most do point out her problems.
I'm afraid your labeling of Michelle makes little to no sense. People describing a character based on what's observable doesn't immediately say whether they like them or not, at least not usually; as far as I know, I'm the only person who considers her to be one of their favorite characters of Season 2 and for good reason. With that said, everything about Michelle's presence in the first episode suggests that she was just a nihilistic thief who was trying too hard to be intimidating so that Clementine would allow her to do her stuff. The fact she coldly hand-waves her actions ("You gotta be mean to keep goin' out here") while wearing the cutest pink jacket she could find makes… [view original content]
you cant actually tell me you like Michelle she was still an asshole to a little girl, threatening to shoot her, took her things, and called Lee (in Michelles mind her dad) a bozo.
Nope sorry, cant like her. I understand your answers to what she did but what she actually did in game was unexcusable. She was old enough to know what to do unlike Clem. Michelle reminds me of Arvo whoes fans also try and stand up for a character that brought only trouble, I will never like her because of how rude she was to Clem, you can but I hope in real life you wont be so kind to people who rob you just because you say they didnt know what they where doing >.> you wont get far in life, or in a real life apocalypse, being nice to someone, especially to someone who threatens you and kills a loved one right infront of you just because it was a "accident" and they where to busy threatening you to pay attention.
you cant actually tell me you like Michelle
I can...and I did. I'm a complicated guy.
she was still an asshole to a little gi… morerl, threatening to shoot her, took her things, and called Lee (in Michelles mind her dad) a bozo.
Which, combined with her implied sympathetic aspects, was proof that she's overcompensatory, base, and possibly jealous.
Nope sorry, cant like her. I understand your answers to what she did but what she actually did in game was unexcusable.
That's perfectly understandable-- and that's actually part of it! She's the starter villain of Season 2, who bullies Clementine and kills Omid in her ten minute scene. By all conventional means, there shouldn't be anything more noteworthy about her. And yet, as a sign of the type of writing that this game series is known for and that I expected to see throughout the rest of the Season(coughcough), she ended up feeling/being more than she really had to be. I sometimes call her Season 2's Jolene for a reason.
Michelle reminds me of Arvo whoes fans also try and stand up for a character that brought only trouble
He's part of the reason I considered her a favorite as well, believe it or not, and Carver fits into that part as well. I've since grown to appreciate Arvo a little more for what he was likely meant to be, but that's another story altogether.
I hope in real life you wont be so kind to people who rob you just because you say they didnt know what they where doing >.> you wont get far in life, or in a real life apocalypse, being nice to someone, especially to someone who threatens you and kills a loved one right infront of you just because it was a "accident" and they where to busy threatening you to pay attention.
Well, it's obviously different if it actually applied to me, but from beyond the 4th wall, I really enjoyed what she did from a storytelling perspective.
Nope sorry, cant like her. I understand your answers to what she did but what she actually did in game was unexcusable. She was old enough t… moreo know what to do unlike Clem. Michelle reminds me of Arvo whoes fans also try and stand up for a character that brought only trouble, I will never like her because of how rude she was to Clem, you can but I hope in real life you wont be so kind to people who rob you just because you say they didnt know what they where doing >.> you wont get far in life, or in a real life apocalypse, being nice to someone, especially to someone who threatens you and kills a loved one right infront of you just because it was a "accident" and they where to busy threatening you to pay attention.
Nope sorry, cant like her. I understand your answers to what she did but what she actually did in game was unexcusable.
That's perfe… morectly understandable-- and that's actually part of it! She's the starter villain of Season 2, who bullies Clementine and kills Omid in her ten minute scene. By all conventional means, there shouldn't be anything more noteworthy about her. And yet, as a sign of the type of writing that this game series is known for and that I expected to see throughout the rest of the Season(coughcough), she ended up feeling/being more than she really had to be. I sometimes call her Season 2's Jolene for a reason.
Michelle reminds me of Arvo whoes fans also try and stand up for a character that brought only trouble
He's part of the reason I considered her a favorite as well, believe it or not, and Carver fits into that part as well. I've since grown to appreciate Arvo a little more for what he was likely meant… [view original content]
I actually just agreed because I know you will still see Michelle as a good person honestly, I dont wont to change one of your favorite characters. And no, I disliked all the villains so far. That means Arvo, Carver, the ones in that group that would be "odd" to like but if I had to choose one out of the villains Carver would be my favorite.
I actually just agreed because I know you will still see Michelle as a good person honestly
Oh. Well, it's not that I think she's a good person (I'm not THAT kind of person or at least I try NOT to be) but more that I appreciate the few signs that she's not as bad as she's pretending to be and that she's really just another survivor doing what they can to get by, even if I can't say I approve of her methods. That was something that made the villains in Season 1 feel so interesting and real to me and something I expected in Season 2: being a villain and being antagonist aren't mutually exclusive and doing bad things doesn't automatically make you a bad person. Especially in a world like Lee and Clementine's.
That's why characters like Vegeta, Darth Vader, Batman, and Zuko are so popular.
And no, I disliked all the villains so far. That means Arvo, Carver, the ones in that group that would be "odd" to like but if I had to choose one out of the villains Carver would be my favorite.
Oh, okay. Not the type to like a character you're not really expected to like even if it's out of appreciation for the role they play, eh? That's cool, I guess.
Though since you do note that Carver is the closest example, I guess I'll count him. The funny thing about Carver is that he's disappointing to me because I expected an explanation for his extreme measures of recapturing the Cabin Group and the process of his alleged decay into a villain but unfortunately, characters like him and Luke were a little too black and white for their own good. In a series with "hero" characters like Kenny, Lilly, and arguably Jane and "dark" characters like Brenda, The Stranger, and technically Arvo, having the main villain of most of the season come off as just a psychopathic tyrant and darwinistic egomaniac is really disappointing to me.
I actually just agreed because I know you will still see Michelle as a good person honestly, I dont wont to change one of your favorite char… moreacters. And no, I disliked all the villains so far. That means Arvo, Carver, the ones in that group that would be "odd" to like but if I had to choose one out of the villains Carver would be my favorite.
Overrated: Carley, Molly, Maybe Kenny? and Arvo
Underrated: Luke, Sarah, Carlos, Rebecca, and... Jane.
(This is the best I could come up with, I have very mixed feelings for pratically all of the characters xP)
Overrated: Carley, Molly, Maybe Kenny? and Arvo
Underrated: Luke, Sarah, Carlos, Rebecca, and... Jane.
(This is the best I could come up with, I have very mixed feelings for pratically all of the characters xP)
Carver or his camp was a little disappointing, I expected alot more people but it was still alright. I was thinking of S2 characters but really I did like Andrew in S1 and Jane if she counts which was one of my favorite characters. You probably think Im always on the heroes side but normally I actually do like the villains more than the heroes but never in actual realistic or real life situations and not in the game, none of the villains where able to beat the other characters like Clem or Kenny for example, maybe its because they wernt well developed enough or not enough screen time. Any of the villains hurting Clem, which mean Arvo and technically Michelle, is what makes me hate them.
I actually just agreed because I know you will still see Michelle as a good person honestly
Oh. Well, it's not that I think she's a … moregood person (I'm not THAT kind of person or at least I try NOT to be) but more that I appreciate the few signs that she's not as bad as she's pretending to be and that she's really just another survivor doing what they can to get by, even if I can't say I approve of her methods. That was something that made the villains in Season 1 feel so interesting and real to me and something I expected in Season 2: being a villain and being antagonist aren't mutually exclusive and doing bad things doesn't automatically make you a bad person. Especially in a world like Lee and Clementine's.
That's why characters like Vegeta, Darth Vader, Batman, and Zuko are so popular.
And no, I disliked all the villains so far. That means Arvo, Carver, the ones in that group that would be "odd" to like but if I had to choos… [view original content]
Carver or his camp was a little disappointing, I expected alot more people but it was still alright.
Yeah, honestly Season 2 had a recurring problem with establishing things and then either half-assing them or just dropping them for something else.
I don't know if I mentioned this before, but Carver himself was so disappointing due to feeling so one-note. From literally the first moment I saw him speak, I said "bad guy" and just moved on expecting him to be a bit more complicated than "psychopathic tyrant in the apocalypse." Unfortunately, he ended being to much of a pastiche archetype for my tastes: his "scruffy middle-aged forest ranger in a shit colored jacket" look kinda gave away his whole shtick and his smug attitude combined with his Darwinistic propaganda was honestly a bit insufferable to me. And it most certainly didn't help that we don't any sufficient backstory on him outside of heresay and vague hints, not mention his dirty fascination with Rebecca and Clementine. I'm sincerely sorry, I don't want to insult a character you like but he was one of the bigger disappointments of the Season.
Meanwhile, I think everyone was disappointed with how underutilized his settlement, his inner circle(though mostly Taavia), and the 400 Days characters were.
I was thinking of S2 characters but really I did like Andrew in S1 and Jane if she counts which was one of my favorite characters.
Andy is one the reasons I kinda wanna do another playthrough soon since I realized I didn't have much of a grasp on him. And I think I've established since literally my first post that Jane is a character I hate on a personal level because of how Unintentionally Unsympathetic she came across. Granted, it's not as bad as it used to be and I freely admit that she is a complex character that a lot of people can get behind, but unfortunately, she's kinda tied to a lot of my issues with the storytelling, tone, and characterization of the latter half of Season 2.
You probably think Im always on the heroes side but normally I actually do like the villains more than the heroes but never in actual realistic or real life situations and not in the game, none of the villains where able to beat the other characters like Clem or Kenny for example, maybe its because they wernt well developed enough or not enough screen time.
That makes sense. After all, if people generally preferred villains to the main characters in stories like this, something is wrong. While Kenny has kinda dropped a bit from his positively neutral status fairly recently, Clementine is definitely a character I like having as a main character--she just not in my top 10. Honestly, she's a major reason I give characters like Sarah, Jane, Arvo, Michelle, and even Becca so much attention (good or bad) and why Season 2 as a whole was unfortunately a bit disappointing in areas.
Any of the villains hurting Clem, which mean Arvo and technically Michelle, is what makes me hate them.
Yeah, that's a definitely a lingering sentiment that's perfectly justified. She's a [admittedly badass] little girl up against a world filled with people and monsters that usually don't care and Season 1 was about Lee protecting her against those sort of things, so it makes sense that most people would flip out whenever someone did anything wrong towards her, intentionally or not. I personally see Clementine as more than just a little girl and thus while I do have plenty of moments where I worry for her safety, I have little doubt that she can't overcome whatever comes her way.
Speaking of which, one of the major things that made Arvo's treatment so disappointing initially and by contrast, made Michelle a favorite was that Clementine didn't really have many personal relationships in Season 2, including villains that could conflict with her and have it mean something special. Sure, there was Carver and Troy heckled her a bit, but for whatever reason, it felt like the second half of the season constantly took things from her and gave them to Jane and especially Kenny. Episode 3 was the worst offender of this and thus it's one of the reasons that episode is the weakest to me. Which is one of the things that inspired me to make my Episode rewrite thread, where Michelle got to play a role in a determinate subplot of Episode to help give Clementine some personal conflict in the episode and flesh out a few other characters at Howe's Hardware.
Carver or his camp was a little disappointing, I expected alot more people but it was still alright. I was thinking of S2 characters but rea… morelly I did like Andrew in S1 and Jane if she counts which was one of my favorite characters. You probably think Im always on the heroes side but normally I actually do like the villains more than the heroes but never in actual realistic or real life situations and not in the game, none of the villains where able to beat the other characters like Clem or Kenny for example, maybe its because they wernt well developed enough or not enough screen time. Any of the villains hurting Clem, which mean Arvo and technically Michelle, is what makes me hate them.
Jeez man you sure do make a story from a reply that was just a paragraph lol (not a insult). But You can insult the Carver character all you want, it wont hurt my feelings, as again I did like Andy more than him as he really wasnt as bad as a guy and I didnt disagree fully on how they ate Mark even though the game made you disagree with him, I would have been on there side if they actually tried to help Mark before instead of just eating him because they thought he was going to die, and not telling the group about it. I mean eating already dead people at a starving time isnt a dumb idea... But they did just randomly eat him without being aware if he was actually going to survive the arrow wound or not. Carver was a interesting villain just not alot of show of him, and I do agree his feelings to Clem and Becca where really creepy. I would actually say episode 1 was the weakest for me but I yeah episode 3 could have been better and maybe it would have been cooler if Michelle was actually in Carvers group in ep 3, Troy was just a dick. Clem is probably my favorite character so you get why I disliked Arvo and Michelle, Arvo was fine up to the point of the infamous shot fired at Clem for no reason even if your nice to him. Grr I just cant like Michelle, shes one of the characters that didnt have any redeeming and in her short time not a positive or friendly moment. It was actually better to have Carver as the villain rather than Michelle though if she did stayed, as ofcourse Carver is more threatening. Is Michelle your #1 favorite character by the way? Im guessing from other replies you dont like Omid that much or Christa haha
Carver or his camp was a little disappointing, I expected alot more people but it was still alright.
Yeah, honestly Season 2 had a r… moreecurring problem with establishing things and then either half-assing them or just dropping them for something else.
I don't know if I mentioned this before, but Carver himself was so disappointing due to feeling so one-note. From literally the first moment I saw him speak, I said "bad guy" and just moved on expecting him to be a bit more complicated than "psychopathic tyrant in the apocalypse." Unfortunately, he ended being to much of a pastiche archetype for my tastes: his "scruffy middle-aged forest ranger in a shit colored jacket" look kinda gave away his whole shtick and his smug attitude combined with his Darwinistic propaganda was honestly a bit insufferable to me. And it most certainly didn't help that we don't any sufficient backstory on him outside of heresay and vague hints, not mention his… [view original content]
Yeah, that’s a small habit of mine. Sorry about the length of this one as well.
But You can insult the Carver character all you want, it wont hurt my feelings, as again I did like Andy more than him as he really wasnt as bad as a guy and I didnt disagree fully on how they ate Mark even though the game made you disagree with him, I would have been on there side if they actually tried to help Mark before instead of just eating him because they thought he was going to die, and not telling the group about it. I mean eating already dead people at a starving time isnt a dumb idea... But they did just randomly eat him without being aware if he was actually going to survive the arrow wound or not.
Yeah, that was always my type of thoughts about Brenda. Now granted, I perfectly understand the Hotel Group being miffled about, you know, eating their friend, but I think cannibalism is a somewhat viable alternative to starving and/or scavenging.
Carver was a interesting villain just not alot of show of him, and I do agree his feelings to Clem and Becca where really creepy.
Well, the tragedy about that is, going by what we see and hear of him in Episode 2(the strongest in my opinion), I can understand how some people could get behind his character and even I was crossing my fingers that it gets even better. But alas, it was for not.
I would actually say episode 1 was the weakest for me but I yeah episode 3 could have been better and maybe it would have been cooler if Michelle was actually in Carvers group in ep 3, Troy was just a dick.
Interesting—was the first episode boring or was it something else?
As for the concept of Michelle being in Carver’s group, that’s …actually a kinda funny idea given Carver’s standards:
Carver: So I hear you held a little girl at gunpoint using her own gun, killed her guardian when he tried to intervene, and then took a barrel to the stomach from his spouse and kept moving forward? …Good! We need that kind of power in these tough times—welcome aboard!
No, but on a serious note, I personally didn’t have her outright be member of his crew in part to make her stand out as her own villain and to help give the citizenry of Howe’s Hardware something of a model citizen alongside Becca. However, giving Clementine a personal enemy within his inner circle, what with Bonnie having an F in Evil, Troy being a lazy dick that ends up being Jane’s first victim, Taavia doing fuck all, and Carver himself ended up having more antipathy with Kenny, is indeed a great idea.
Clem is probably my favorite character so you get why I disliked Arvo and Michelle, Arvo was fine up to the point of the infamous shot fired at Clem for no reason even if your nice to him.
Yeah, that was kinda the point of it, but I think people put a little too much emphasis on what he did, particularly those who treat it like it's all there was to him despite the fact that he's not that special outside of actually hitting her. People do cite that him shooting Clementine in the most nonthreatening playthroughs is because of his sister but someone rightfully pointed out that there's no mandatory reason Clementine has to get shot everytime given the miniscule result. So, it just comes off as yet another example of Kenny somehow being vindicated of his wrongdoings, stuff happening just for the sake of shock value, and Jane being even more unsympathetic than she already was- Oops!
Grr I just cant like Michelle, shes one of the characters that didnt have any redeeming and in her short time not a positive or friendly moment.
Well, it’s almost like she’s a bullying, thieving bitch or something.
Like I alluded to earlier, the reason I promoted her from a memorable one-shot to one of my favorites was because after playing through the entire Season and then looking back over it, Carver and Arvo were disappointing: Carver was definitely Big Bad material but such a hate sink due to his lack of sympathetic traits or a backstory; Arvo should’ve been the grey character he was set up to be but he ended up being too sympathetic and had a lack of genuine menace, which was NOT helped by the fact that he was up against the comparatively unlikable Kenny and unsympathetic Jane.
However, Michelle had both: she was revealed to have enough of a vulnerable side that you feel bad for her, but she also had blood on her hands thanks to her needlessly mean methods towards Clementine and thus you couldn’t really take her side. Hell, the very idea that Clementine had an enemy she could immediately empathize with but couldn’t get through to because of her thuggish lifestyle was just so fascinating to me that I’m kinda sad that she wasn’t brought back later on. So, when I finally got around to adapting her into episode 3, I really went out of my way to make the parallels between the two a “little” more obvious and also pretty much took advantage of 99.95% of people’s completely justified anger towards her in her assimilation into Carver’s community, the determinate confrontation, and the payoff from it, to make one gray personal villain.
It was actually better to have Carver as the villain rather than Michelle though if she did stayed, as of course Carver is more threatening.
Oh no no no, don’t misunderstand me. Carver was definitely main villain material, he just lacked any material to flesh him out, so he would still be the main villain of the Season. Michelle worked because she was on a much lower level of threat than he was and yet, she was still able to set the tone for the rest of the Season to go by. So I’d still want her to be something of a C-list villain, it’s just that she has a lot of diversity in her presence that make her not only an interesting foil for Clementine, but a unique addition to the extended cast as well.
Is Michelle your #1 favorite character by the way? Im guessing from other replies you dont like Omid that much or Christa haha
No, that would almost certainly be Sarah. I picked Michelle as my avatar because I knew nobody else would because of either her obscurity or her magnus opus.
As for Omid and Christa, I liked them fine enough for what they were: like Michelle, they came into the story as something that was needed for the direction from that point on. I know Omid in particular is appreciated because of that and I also think some of shit Christa sometimes got was undeserved. Don’t think that just because I really like the person who unintentionally enforced “till death do us part” on them means I hate their guts.
Now, Jane, on the contrary….
Jeez man you sure do make a story from a reply that was just a paragraph lol (not a insult). But You can insult the Carver character all you… more want, it wont hurt my feelings, as again I did like Andy more than him as he really wasnt as bad as a guy and I didnt disagree fully on how they ate Mark even though the game made you disagree with him, I would have been on there side if they actually tried to help Mark before instead of just eating him because they thought he was going to die, and not telling the group about it. I mean eating already dead people at a starving time isnt a dumb idea... But they did just randomly eat him without being aware if he was actually going to survive the arrow wound or not. Carver was a interesting villain just not alot of show of him, and I do agree his feelings to Clem and Becca where really creepy. I would actually say episode 1 was the weakest for me but I yeah episode 3 could have been better and maybe it wou… [view original content]
As someone who only cares about Becca as Shel's motivation and because of her age, I'm assuming that's a bit of an outdated sentiment because I haven't seen many people say they hate Becca and I've even seen someone say they liked her.
I've noticed people either hate her (for the thing she told Sarah) or praise her how much better she is than Clem, Sarah, I dunno. Yeah, she can survive and is tough but man, she's too harsh.
I've noticed people either hate her (for the thing she told Sarah) or praise her how much better she is than Clem, Sarah, I dunno. Yeah, she can survive and is tough but man, she's too harsh.
Interesting—was the first episode boring or was it something else?
I think it was just really slow and to many fast choices that seemed rushed, like forcing Clem to be alone by getting Omid and Christa (maybe dead) killed of so quickly. The new group also annoyed me at first and it took till episode 3 for me to actually like Lukes group.
Now, Jane, on the contrary….
Yeah about her, are you a fan of Kenny or Jane? Ive seen mixed comments about your opinion on them, I for one liked both, let me guess did you not think Jane had enough time to be a developed character?
Yeah, that’s a small habit of mine. Sorry about the length of this one as well.
But You can insult the Carver character all you want,… more it wont hurt my feelings, as again I did like Andy more than him as he really wasnt as bad as a guy and I didnt disagree fully on how they ate Mark even though the game made you disagree with him, I would have been on there side if they actually tried to help Mark before instead of just eating him because they thought he was going to die, and not telling the group about it. I mean eating already dead people at a starving time isnt a dumb idea... But they did just randomly eat him without being aware if he was actually going to survive the arrow wound or not.
Yeah, that was always my type of thoughts about Brenda. Now granted, I perfectly understand the Hotel Group being miffled about, you know, eating their friend, but I think cannibalism is a somewhat viable alternative to starving and/or scaven… [view original content]
I think it was just really slow and to many fast choices that seemed rushed, like forcing Clem to be alone by getting Omid and Christa (maybe dead) killed of so quickly. The new group also annoyed me at first and it took till episode 3 for me to actually like Lukes group.
Okay.
Yeah about her, are you a fan of Kenny or Jane? Ive seen mixed comments about your opinion on them, I for one liked both,
To be completely honest, neither. Kenny is funny guy with some great moments, but I was always positively neutral about him, as far as I can remember. That opinions been on the decline for a bit due to his over-prominence, status as a crutch/distraction, and eventual unlikable-ness having a negative affect on Season 2's story. Meanwhile, Jane has the honor of being one of the few characters I legitimately hate on a personal level and was actually the subject of my very first post/topic here. She was just so unsympathetic before the halfway point of the final episode that I grew to absolutely loathe her. The fact that she was something of an obvious gimmick in her first episode, has all these odd parallels that can be interpreted from her, has all this uncomfortable baggage, and is responsible for a decent amount of the weaker aspects of the Season 's later half does NOT help her case.
let me guess did you not think Jane had enough time to be a developed character?
No, actually I think she's one of the more complex characters of the Season. And I think that's part of the problem along with the fact that, when you really pay attention, she not only overshadows some of the other major characters(Luke, Sarah, and Nick in particular) but she outright STEALS material from them and other characters. I plan on writing something addressing that at some point.
Interesting—was the first episode boring or was it something else?
I think it was just really slow and to many fast choices that see… moremed rushed, like forcing Clem to be alone by getting Omid and Christa (maybe dead) killed of so quickly. The new group also annoyed me at first and it took till episode 3 for me to actually like Lukes group.
Now, Jane, on the contrary….
Yeah about her, are you a fan of Kenny or Jane? Ive seen mixed comments about your opinion on them, I for one liked both, let me guess did you not think Jane had enough time to be a developed character?
I think it was just really slow and to many fast choices that seemed rushed, like forcing Clem to be alone by getting Omid and Christa (mayb… moree dead) killed of so quickly. The new group also annoyed me at first and it took till episode 3 for me to actually like Lukes group.
Okay.
Yeah about her, are you a fan of Kenny or Jane? Ive seen mixed comments about your opinion on them, I for one liked both,
To be completely honest, neither. Kenny is funny guy with some great moments, but I was always positively neutral about him, as far as I can remember. That opinions been on the decline for a bit due to his over-prominence, status as a crutch/distraction, and eventual unlikable-ness having a negative affect on Season 2's story. Meanwhile, Jane has the honor of being one of the few characters I legitimately hate on a personal level and was actually the subject of my very first post/topic here. She was just so unsympathetic befor… [view original content]
I wouldnt blame that on Jane, many people say Kenny did it to, One thing Jane did steal is overall being a copy of Molly. Just Molly 2.0
Yeah, I guess it's easier to overlook with Kenny just because he was a Season 1 character and therefore is basically living off the result of that. I know Carlos is an example of this since not only was there a thread pointing out that Kenny's story in the later episodes would've fit him as well but he gets demoted really hard and doesn't get much to do in Episode 3 despite not being determinate. Plus, there's also the fact that Sarah and Sarita mean the same thing-- Make of that what you will.
As for Jane, she's right up there with characters like Nozomi Kujo. Now personally, I wouldn't say she's just a copy of Molly since the parallels weren't really emphasized until Amid the Ruins and she ended up being a far more important and developed character. But yes, it's pretty bad once you realize that she's an even more of a Mary Sue than Molly ever was--and this is coming from someone who both didn't have any opinion on her one way or another and would simply say that she's simply a little out of place.
I legitimately hate on a personal
XD Ok that explains alot then.
but she outright STEALS material from them and other characte… morers
I wouldnt blame that on Jane, many people say Kenny did it to, One thing Jane did steal is overall being a copy of Molly. Just Molly 2.0
Comments
I'm not offended by any means.
I'm glad to know, Lee!
Cool beans
Overrated:
Jane and Kenny
Underrated:
Jane and Kenny
Javier is somewhat understandable because of the hype around the upcoming Season and they're looking forward to seeing his interactions with Clementine.
Very few people have said that Rebecca was one of their favorite characters and most do point out her problems.
I'm afraid your labeling of Michelle makes little to no sense. People describing a character based on what's observable doesn't immediately say whether they like them or not, at least not usually; as far as I know, I'm the only person who considers her to be one of their favorite characters of Season 2 and for good reason. With that said, everything about Michelle's presence in the first episode suggests that she was just a nihilistic thief who was trying too hard to be intimidating so that Clementine would allow her to do her stuff. The fact she coldly hand-waves her actions ("You gotta be mean to keep goin' out here") while wearing the cutest pink jacket she could find makes this hilariously apparent.
Some have mentioned that she was holding the gun in an unprofessional manner and the various dialogue options you have during that scene hints that she's really just a poser trying to hide her own insecurities about being on her own in the world of the Walking Dead. Clementine claiming that she killed someone to get her hat will have Michelle briefly show fear before trying to laugh it off and Clementine being defiant in general has her become annoyed and threatening but she eventually just drops the issue and despite having control of the situation, she backs off anyway. Even her calling Clementine "little fish" and insulting her picture of Kenny/Lee can be seen as her trying to psyche Clementine out and devaluing the things she cares about making herself feel meaner than a simple bully.
She only shot Omid because the closing door startled them both and she freaked out due to how close he was. Her reaction of shock and horror makes it apparent that she was never planning on actually shooting anyone and she drops the gun completely and apologetically surrenders despite the fact that Christa hadn't actually noticed her yet, when she could've easily taken advantage of her sorrow over seeing Omid's body to either kill her as well or simply run away.
you cant actually tell me you like Michelle
she was still an asshole to a little girl, threatening to shoot her, took her things, and called Lee (in Michelles mind her dad) a bozo.
I can...and I did.
I'm a complicated guy.
Which, combined with her implied sympathetic aspects, was proof that she's overcompensatory, base, and possibly jealous.
Nope sorry, cant like her. I understand your answers to what she did but what she actually did in game was unexcusable. She was old enough to know what to do unlike Clem. Michelle reminds me of Arvo whoes fans also try and stand up for a character that brought only trouble, I will never like her because of how rude she was to Clem, you can but I hope in real life you wont be so kind to people who rob you just because you say they didnt know what they where doing >.> you wont get far in life, or in a real life apocalypse, being nice to someone, especially to someone who threatens you and kills a loved one right infront of you just because it was a "accident" and they where to busy threatening you to pay attention.
underrated.
ben
nick
chuck
pete
arvo
doug
overated
molly[ i do like her tho]
clem
That's perfectly understandable-- and that's actually part of it! She's the starter villain of Season 2, who bullies Clementine and kills Omid in her ten minute scene. By all conventional means, there shouldn't be anything more noteworthy about her. And yet, as a sign of the type of writing that this game series is known for and that I expected to see throughout the rest of the Season(coughcough), she ended up feeling/being more than she really had to be. I sometimes call her Season 2's Jolene for a reason.
He's part of the reason I considered her a favorite as well, believe it or not, and Carver fits into that part as well. I've since grown to appreciate Arvo a little more for what he was likely meant to be, but that's another story altogether.
Well, it's obviously different if it actually applied to me, but from beyond the 4th wall, I really enjoyed what she did from a storytelling perspective.
Yes I suppose
K.
...
So, any odd favorite character of your own?
I actually just agreed because I know you will still see Michelle as a good person honestly, I dont wont to change one of your favorite characters. And no, I disliked all the villains so far. That means Arvo, Carver, the ones in that group that would be "odd" to like but if I had to choose one out of the villains Carver would be my favorite.
Oh. Well, it's not that I think she's a good person (I'm not THAT kind of person or at least I try NOT to be) but more that I appreciate the few signs that she's not as bad as she's pretending to be and that she's really just another survivor doing what they can to get by, even if I can't say I approve of her methods. That was something that made the villains in Season 1 feel so interesting and real to me and something I expected in Season 2: being a villain and being antagonist aren't mutually exclusive and doing bad things doesn't automatically make you a bad person. Especially in a world like Lee and Clementine's.
That's why characters like Vegeta, Darth Vader, Batman, and Zuko are so popular.
Oh, okay. Not the type to like a character you're not really expected to like even if it's out of appreciation for the role they play, eh? That's cool, I guess.
Though since you do note that Carver is the closest example, I guess I'll count him. The funny thing about Carver is that he's disappointing to me because I expected an explanation for his extreme measures of recapturing the Cabin Group and the process of his alleged decay into a villain but unfortunately, characters like him and Luke were a little too black and white for their own good. In a series with "hero" characters like Kenny, Lilly, and arguably Jane and "dark" characters like Brenda, The Stranger, and technically Arvo, having the main villain of most of the season come off as just a psychopathic tyrant and darwinistic egomaniac is really disappointing to me.
Overrated: Carley, Molly, Maybe Kenny? and Arvo
Underrated: Luke, Sarah, Carlos, Rebecca, and... Jane.
(This is the best I could come up with, I have very mixed feelings for pratically all of the characters xP)
And how exactly is ... Jane underrated?
Carver or his camp was a little disappointing, I expected alot more people but it was still alright. I was thinking of S2 characters but really I did like Andrew in S1 and Jane if she counts which was one of my favorite characters. You probably think Im always on the heroes side but normally I actually do like the villains more than the heroes but never in actual realistic or real life situations and not in the game, none of the villains where able to beat the other characters like Clem or Kenny for example, maybe its because they wernt well developed enough or not enough screen time. Any of the villains hurting Clem, which mean Arvo and technically Michelle, is what makes me hate them.
I thought most people hated her?
Unless you were saying she doesn't get enough hate...
They said Jane was underrated.
Yeah, honestly Season 2 had a recurring problem with establishing things and then either half-assing them or just dropping them for something else.
I don't know if I mentioned this before, but Carver himself was so disappointing due to feeling so one-note. From literally the first moment I saw him speak, I said "bad guy" and just moved on expecting him to be a bit more complicated than "psychopathic tyrant in the apocalypse." Unfortunately, he ended being to much of a pastiche archetype for my tastes: his "scruffy middle-aged forest ranger in a shit colored jacket" look kinda gave away his whole shtick and his smug attitude combined with his Darwinistic propaganda was honestly a bit insufferable to me. And it most certainly didn't help that we don't any sufficient backstory on him outside of heresay and vague hints, not mention his dirty fascination with Rebecca and Clementine. I'm sincerely sorry, I don't want to insult a character you like but he was one of the bigger disappointments of the Season.
Meanwhile, I think everyone was disappointed with how underutilized his settlement, his inner circle(though mostly Taavia), and the 400 Days characters were.
Andy is one the reasons I kinda wanna do another playthrough soon since I realized I didn't have much of a grasp on him. And I think I've established since literally my first post that Jane is a character I hate on a personal level because of how Unintentionally Unsympathetic she came across. Granted, it's not as bad as it used to be and I freely admit that she is a complex character that a lot of people can get behind, but unfortunately, she's kinda tied to a lot of my issues with the storytelling, tone, and characterization of the latter half of Season 2.
That makes sense. After all, if people generally preferred villains to the main characters in stories like this, something is wrong. While Kenny has kinda dropped a bit from his positively neutral status fairly recently, Clementine is definitely a character I like having as a main character--she just not in my top 10. Honestly, she's a major reason I give characters like Sarah, Jane, Arvo, Michelle, and even Becca so much attention (good or bad) and why Season 2 as a whole was unfortunately a bit disappointing in areas.
Yeah, that's a definitely a lingering sentiment that's perfectly justified. She's a [admittedly badass] little girl up against a world filled with people and monsters that usually don't care and Season 1 was about Lee protecting her against those sort of things, so it makes sense that most people would flip out whenever someone did anything wrong towards her, intentionally or not. I personally see Clementine as more than just a little girl and thus while I do have plenty of moments where I worry for her safety, I have little doubt that she can't overcome whatever comes her way.
Speaking of which, one of the major things that made Arvo's treatment so disappointing initially and by contrast, made Michelle a favorite was that Clementine didn't really have many personal relationships in Season 2, including villains that could conflict with her and have it mean something special. Sure, there was Carver and Troy heckled her a bit, but for whatever reason, it felt like the second half of the season constantly took things from her and gave them to Jane and especially Kenny. Episode 3 was the worst offender of this and thus it's one of the reasons that episode is the weakest to me. Which is one of the things that inspired me to make my Episode rewrite thread, where Michelle got to play a role in a determinate subplot of Episode to help give Clementine some personal conflict in the episode and flesh out a few other characters at Howe's Hardware.
Oops, a bit of a typo.
Thanks for pointing that out!
Jeez man you sure do make a story from a reply that was just a paragraph lol (not a insult). But You can insult the Carver character all you want, it wont hurt my feelings, as again I did like Andy more than him as he really wasnt as bad as a guy and I didnt disagree fully on how they ate Mark even though the game made you disagree with him, I would have been on there side if they actually tried to help Mark before instead of just eating him because they thought he was going to die, and not telling the group about it. I mean eating already dead people at a starving time isnt a dumb idea... But they did just randomly eat him without being aware if he was actually going to survive the arrow wound or not. Carver was a interesting villain just not alot of show of him, and I do agree his feelings to Clem and Becca where really creepy. I would actually say episode 1 was the weakest for me but I yeah episode 3 could have been better and maybe it would have been cooler if Michelle was actually in Carvers group in ep 3, Troy was just a dick. Clem is probably my favorite character so you get why I disliked Arvo and Michelle, Arvo was fine up to the point of the infamous shot fired at Clem for no reason even if your nice to him. Grr I just cant like Michelle, shes one of the characters that didnt have any redeeming and in her short time not a positive or friendly moment. It was actually better to have Carver as the villain rather than Michelle though if she did stayed, as ofcourse Carver is more threatening. Is Michelle your #1 favorite character by the way? Im guessing from other replies you dont like Omid that much or Christa haha
Yeah, that’s a small habit of mine.
Sorry about the length of this one as well.
Yeah, that was always my type of thoughts about Brenda. Now granted, I perfectly understand the Hotel Group being miffled about, you know, eating their friend, but I think cannibalism is a somewhat viable alternative to starving and/or scavenging.
Well, the tragedy about that is, going by what we see and hear of him in Episode 2(the strongest in my opinion), I can understand how some people could get behind his character and even I was crossing my fingers that it gets even better. But alas, it was for not.
Interesting—was the first episode boring or was it something else?
As for the concept of Michelle being in Carver’s group, that’s …actually a kinda funny idea given Carver’s standards:
Carver: So I hear you held a little girl at gunpoint using her own gun, killed her guardian when he tried to intervene, and then took a barrel to the stomach from his spouse and kept moving forward? …Good! We need that kind of power in these tough times—welcome aboard!
No, but on a serious note, I personally didn’t have her outright be member of his crew in part to make her stand out as her own villain and to help give the citizenry of Howe’s Hardware something of a model citizen alongside Becca. However, giving Clementine a personal enemy within his inner circle, what with Bonnie having an F in Evil, Troy being a lazy dick that ends up being Jane’s first victim, Taavia doing fuck all, and Carver himself ended up having more antipathy with Kenny, is indeed a great idea.
Yeah, that was kinda the point of it, but I think people put a little too much emphasis on what he did, particularly those who treat it like it's all there was to him despite the fact that he's not that special outside of actually hitting her. People do cite that him shooting Clementine in the most nonthreatening playthroughs is because of his sister but someone rightfully pointed out that there's no mandatory reason Clementine has to get shot everytime given the miniscule result. So, it just comes off as yet another example of Kenny somehow being vindicated of his wrongdoings, stuff happening just for the sake of shock value, and Jane being even more unsympathetic than she already was- Oops!
Well, it’s almost like she’s a bullying, thieving bitch or something.
Like I alluded to earlier, the reason I promoted her from a memorable one-shot to one of my favorites was because after playing through the entire Season and then looking back over it, Carver and Arvo were disappointing: Carver was definitely Big Bad material but such a hate sink due to his lack of sympathetic traits or a backstory; Arvo should’ve been the grey character he was set up to be but he ended up being too sympathetic and had a lack of genuine menace, which was NOT helped by the fact that he was up against the comparatively unlikable Kenny and unsympathetic Jane.
However, Michelle had both: she was revealed to have enough of a vulnerable side that you feel bad for her, but she also had blood on her hands thanks to her needlessly mean methods towards Clementine and thus you couldn’t really take her side. Hell, the very idea that Clementine had an enemy she could immediately empathize with but couldn’t get through to because of her thuggish lifestyle was just so fascinating to me that I’m kinda sad that she wasn’t brought back later on. So, when I finally got around to adapting her into episode 3, I really went out of my way to make the parallels between the two a “little” more obvious and also pretty much took advantage of 99.95% of people’s completely justified anger towards her in her assimilation into Carver’s community, the determinate confrontation, and the payoff from it, to make one gray personal villain.
Oh no no no, don’t misunderstand me. Carver was definitely main villain material, he just lacked any material to flesh him out, so he would still be the main villain of the Season. Michelle worked because she was on a much lower level of threat than he was and yet, she was still able to set the tone for the rest of the Season to go by. So I’d still want her to be something of a C-list villain, it’s just that she has a lot of diversity in her presence that make her not only an interesting foil for Clementine, but a unique addition to the extended cast as well.
No, that would almost certainly be Sarah.
I picked Michelle as my avatar because I knew nobody else would because of either her obscurity or her magnus opus. 
As for Omid and Christa, I liked them fine enough for what they were: like Michelle, they came into the story as something that was needed for the direction from that point on. I know Omid in particular is appreciated because of that and I also think some of shit Christa sometimes got was undeserved. Don’t think that just because I really like the person who unintentionally enforced “till death do us part” on them means I hate their guts.
Now, Jane, on the contrary….
Heh yeah, Jane doesn't need as much hate as she's getting, even though I'm not a big fan of her myself.
Eeeh...meh.
k
I think you mean Kenny and Jane.
As someone who only cares about Becca as Shel's motivation and because of her age, I'm assuming that's a bit of an outdated sentiment because I haven't seen many people say they hate Becca and I've even seen someone say they liked her.
?
Just a joke about stylistic redundancy: Kenny and Jane are overrated, Jane and Kenny are underrated.
Also, the whole egotistical top billing joke.
Okay
I've noticed people either hate her (for the thing she told Sarah) or praise her how much better she is than Clem, Sarah, I dunno. Yeah, she can survive and is tough but man, she's too harsh.
... What? Really?
We barely know her...
I think it was just really slow and to many fast choices that seemed rushed, like forcing Clem to be alone by getting Omid and Christa (maybe dead) killed of so quickly. The new group also annoyed me at first and it took till episode 3 for me to actually like Lukes group.
Now, Jane, on the contrary….
Yeah about her, are you a fan of Kenny or Jane? Ive seen mixed comments about your opinion on them, I for one liked both, let me guess did you not think Jane had enough time to be a developed character?
Okay.
To be completely honest, neither. Kenny is funny guy with some great moments, but I was always positively neutral about him, as far as I can remember. That opinions been on the decline for a bit due to his over-prominence, status as a crutch/distraction, and eventual unlikable-ness having a negative affect on Season 2's story. Meanwhile, Jane has the honor of being one of the few characters I legitimately hate on a personal level and was actually the subject of my very first post/topic here. She was just so unsympathetic before the halfway point of the final episode that I grew to absolutely loathe her. The fact that she was something of an obvious gimmick in her first episode, has all these odd parallels that can be interpreted from her, has all this uncomfortable baggage, and is responsible for a decent amount of the weaker aspects of the Season 's later half does NOT help her case.
No, actually I think she's one of the more complex characters of the Season. And I think that's part of the problem along with the fact that, when you really pay attention, she not only overshadows some of the other major characters(Luke, Sarah, and Nick in particular) but she outright STEALS material from them and other characters. I plan on writing something addressing that at some point.
XD Ok that explains alot then.
I wouldnt blame that on Jane, many people say Kenny did it to, One thing Jane did steal is overall being a copy of Molly. Just Molly 2.0
Yeah, I guess it's easier to overlook with Kenny just because he was a Season 1 character and therefore is basically living off the result of that. I know Carlos is an example of this since not only was there a thread pointing out that Kenny's story in the later episodes would've fit him as well but he gets demoted really hard and doesn't get much to do in Episode 3 despite not being determinate. Plus, there's also the fact that Sarah and Sarita mean the same thing-- Make of that what you will.
As for Jane, she's right up there with characters like Nozomi Kujo. Now personally, I wouldn't say she's just a copy of Molly since the parallels weren't really emphasized until Amid the Ruins and she ended up being a far more important and developed character. But yes, it's pretty bad once you realize that she's an even more of a Mary Sue than Molly ever was--and this is coming from someone who both didn't have any opinion on her one way or another and would simply say that she's simply a little out of place.
Okay, this would be an interesting place to ask this: Who are the most popular characters and the least popular ones?
The most popular characters are Lee, Clem and Kenny.
The least popular ones are...idk.
Underrated:
Overrated: