I agree that committing suicide so early on during the pregnancy might have been motivated by the wish to do what was most comfortable for herself—which was, in a way, to end her depressed life. Her death could've been fueled by reasons that only concerned herself. If she had not hanged herself, they might've come across other groups with medical expertise, and Jane didn't take that into consideration.
You do realize that it was dangerous for Clementine to look after a baby on her own, and therefore I conclude that you realize it would've been even more dangerous for her to look after a sick woman and two babies on her own. And there was no way that she could abort, given that she is no doctor and she is only one person.
I would like to propose to everyone reading the conclusion that, while Jane was selfish for commiting suicide so early on, her later life and the birth of her child would have asked too much of Clementine and the four of them could've died. The death of Jane was necessary sometime before labour, but going along with it so early was immoral because Jane was still physically fit at the time of the suicide.
Remember that, unlike Kenny, she didn't put Clementine in reckless danger.
Somehow, leaving an 11 year old to raise AJ on her own wi… moreth a limited amount of supplies, isn't putting Clementine in reckless danger?
We have to understand that, despite everything, Clementine is still a child and while through the miracle of plot writing, she somehow manages to do it in the alone ending (which I haven't seen yet), she's not truly capable enough to care for a child completely on her own. Especially when she believed that she had the security and support of Jane, a well equipped survivor and someone Clementine had sacrificed a lot for, had trusted and had gone through enough trauma to be at that point with them, and what does Jane decide to do? She decides to add to said trauma by killing herself. By giving up. Leaving Clementine truly alone, losing yet another person she deeply cared for. And the most insulting thing? Jane choose to not ev… [view original content]
Well I fear that I'm not the only one you'll be arguing about this with, if you continue trying to frame Jane as some selfless martyr and Kenny as the rabid dog cliche.
I never said they are cowards though. Some people can deal with shit better than others. But I don't believe that those who decide to kill t… morehemselves, no matter how much of a trouble they were to the people around them, are doing everyone a favor. They are choosing to end their lives and let the people that care about them live with the pain of their deaths and with the thoughts "what if I could do something to prevent this?".
Why couldn't Jane just leave a note and leave if she thought she would be such a burden? Or kill herself away from Clem and AJ? Why couldn't she shot herself instead of hanging? Or just try to abort if she thought having a kid was so terrible? She didn't want to decide. She didn't want to live with the guilt. She took the easiest route. And she did what she did knowing full well Clem would see her and would have to put her down when she turned. It's funny how people thought Jane "was much more capable than Kenny" bec… [view original content]
Well I fear that I'm not the only one you'll be arguing about this with, if you continue trying to frame Jane as some selfless martyr and Kenny as the rabid dog cliche.
Agreed that Jane being pregnant way further along and giving birth would have been a huge liability, and agreed that she was immoral for leaving much, much sooner than she needed to (considering she would be able bodied and able to perform chores and tasks for quite a while).
I enjoyed the scene I got with Kenny, personally.
Sure, it wasn't what I wanted, but it was nice to have that final moment with him. And … morehis death was how I wanted him to go out...for the most part. Could've gone without him being crippled and helpless.
But, aside from the crippled and helpless thing, I'm glad he went out doing exactly what I trusted him to do back in Season 2. Protecting Clementine and AJ.
It does make me feel a bit worried, though, as this was, in my opinion, one of the laziest ways Telltale could have handled the endings.
I really wanted them to have more impact than a seven minute scene. I also don't want Telltale to go back to the days of determinant characters dying no matter what.
Agreed that Jane being pregnant way further along and giving birth would have been a huge liability, and agreed that she was immoral for lea… moreving much, much sooner than she needed to (considering she would be able bodied and able to perform chores and tasks for quite a while).
Honestly, I thought his scene was the best. My only real problems with it are 1. Kenny himself(aesthetically, he was the worst looking and sounding of the three), 2. it could've used more time on Kenny post-crash to increase the tension, and 3. the walkers pecking at his crash dummy stunt double at the end.
You didn't think Kenny's ending was rushed? They literally came up with the quickest way to get rid of him. It would be the same thing if Clem and Kenny were just walking down the road and Kenny fell on a ditch and died.
Being pregnant is not being sick. Besides, Clem went through it with Christa and she most likely helped her deliver the baby too (which then probably died, since Clem says "not again" when Jane fakes the death of AJ. At least that's how I interpret it). I don't believe she thought of Clem and AJ's well-being when she decided to kill herself. I do think they are better off without her anyway, since she has proved countless times how unreliable she can be, but just because the outcome may have helped Clem and AJ, doesn't mean her intentions were pure and selfless to begin with. But that's just how I see it.
I'm reasonable happy with how the endings with Jane and Kenny ended up being, although I wish they were a bit longer.
Does anyone know why there wasn't a 'Alone with Clementine' ending flashback variant in Season 3? I'm thinking it's just because Telltale just decided to have the main two decisions made in the game but I would have liked to have seen, what would have happened if she was alone.
If you make the effort to truly understand what I said, you will realize that I didn't say Jane committed suicide for Clem's wellbeing. You missed the point of the post above.
Being pregnant is not being sick. Besides, Clem went through it with Christa and she most likely helped her deliver the baby too (which then… more probably died, since Clem says "not again" when Jane fakes the death of AJ. At least that's how I interpret it). I don't believe she thought of Clem and AJ's well-being when she decided to kill herself. I do think they are better off without her anyway, since she has proved countless times how unreliable she can be, but just because the outcome may have helped Clem and AJ, doesn't mean her intentions were pure and selfless to begin with. But that's just how I see it.
Since I chose to stay at Wellington, I didn't know the fate of Kenny,
So of course went to youtube and the only one that seemed kinda dumb was Jane's.
There were so many other options but she chose suicide, granted I killed Jane I never trusted her nor liked her but...suicide never seemed to be the way she'd go.
Kenny's was cute and sad, it sucked that he had to break his legs (dunno why he couldn't make a last stand) but I liked it, he protected Clem and AJ by sacrificing his life.
To be honest I think Wellington's ending was the best, mainly cause Kenny could still be considered alive since he walked off.
I don't want him to show back up, the reason I left him was because it was best for Clem and AJ.
But when I was collecting supplies the first thing I grabbed was his hat. sheds single tear
Well, I don't know what your point is anymore. You seem to at least now agree that killing herself was not a selfless act but a selfish one. And now you seem to be saying that she would be a liability further down the road, which I also agree (I never thought she was reliable and fit to take care of two kids anyway, pregnant or not). But that's no excuse for what she did and why she did it.
If you make the effort to truly understand what I said, you will realize that I didn't say Jane committed suicide for Clem's wellbeing. You missed the point of the post above.
I'm reasonable happy with how the endings with Jane and Kenny ended up being, although I wish they were a bit longer.
Does anyone know why… more there wasn't a 'Alone with Clementine' ending flashback variant in Season 3? I'm thinking it's just because Telltale just decided to have the main two decisions made in the game but I would have liked to have seen, what would have happened if she was alone.
I agree that committing suicide so early on during the pregnancy might have been motivated by the wish to do what was most comfortable for herself—which was, in a way, to end her depressed life. Her death could've been fueled by reasons that only concerned herself. If she had not hanged herself, they might've come across other groups with medical expertise, and Jane didn't take that into consideration.
You see, that's probably my biggest issue with her death. After everything Jane had done in the final of season 2, I just can't see her making such a drastic decision without taking into account of how Clementine, someone she had nearly died for, would have been effected. People can say what they want about Jane, myself included, really, but it was always an assured fact that she did obviously care for Clementine and was beginning to be able to show that more.
But now, after this, it gives the sense that Jane decided to overlook Clementine's feelings and needs for security and a friend, and instead went ahead with doing something that was driven only to benefit herself through suicide. It's why I feel that despite how terrible Kenny's demise is as well, it still reflected well enough on the character and while he was ridiculously stupid in it, he still put Clementine's needs before his own, something I believed that Jane would've done, after her development in S2, as well. I'm not her biggest fan, but I do think, this being Telltale's way of saying a final goodbye to the character, that it's a disgrace that they decided to end her in such an awful way, tainting her image and leaving a question mark over how much she really cared for Clementine.
You do realize that it was dangerous for Clementine to look after a baby on her own, and therefore I conclude that you realize it would've been even more dangerous for her to look after a sick woman and two babies on her own. And there was no way that she could abort, given that she is no doctor and she is only one person.
Yeah, I get all that. My only real big issue with your original comment was that you referred to the act undertaken by Jane as "selfless", where I feel in complete opposite to. Other than that, I thought you did a good job explaining reasons for why Jane might have done what she did, but, personally, I still feel that suicide wasn't in her character, but oh, well, Telltale changed that. I always figured Jane would hold out on surviving till the end, not giving up and if something like a pregnancy surfaced, she'd try to find means of aborting it. I ain't denying that that wouldn't have been dangerous as fuck, but there are means to perform self-induced abortions, from what I've heard, anyway. And if she couldn't go through with that, she'd had at least have the decency to be honest with Clementine, wait it out a while for her sake, and if all else fails, sure, maybe suicide, but to just give up in such short notice within only a short time of finding out she was pregnant without even telling Clem, didn't feel very Jane-y to me.
I agree that committing suicide so early on during the pregnancy might have been motivated by the wish to do what was most comfortable for h… moreerself—which was, in a way, to end her depressed life. Her death could've been fueled by reasons that only concerned herself. If she had not hanged herself, they might've come across other groups with medical expertise, and Jane didn't take that into consideration.
You do realize that it was dangerous for Clementine to look after a baby on her own, and therefore I conclude that you realize it would've been even more dangerous for her to look after a sick woman and two babies on her own. And there was no way that she could abort, given that she is no doctor and she is only one person.
I would like to propose to everyone reading the conclusion that, while Jane was selfish for commiting suicide so early on, her later life and the birth of her child would have asked too much of Clementine and the four o… [view original content]
Agreed with NotSoConcerned here. Jane and Kenny (especially Jane) were just flat out wasted, and it's enough of a disappointment that no matter how much I might like the rest of the story otherwise (what there is of it), this has scarred it. It's guaranteed already bec to be the worst thing they've made in my eyes, and I hope it doesn't end up being the direction they go with their other series. Jane's death was so horribly expedient and out of character. I'm enjoying the rest of it, but this along with the short episodes is hurting my opinion of Telltale. I feel a little tinge of betrayal, and I haven't felt that from TTG before. Oh, well, I'm still going to enjoy the season; it's paid for. I really don't want to feel ripped off. I'm glad I pre-ordered, though. At least I was able to get the PS4 version of S2. I want to encourage better in the future, and discourage what they did in these scenes, and these short episodes. It's not up to par.
Naw, it wasn't handled well at all. At the very least I think they should have had flashbacks for Clem working towards the current time. Sho… morewing either Clem travels with Kenny/Jane or alone to that point. With a major event triggering a flashback that shows what happened with Jane/Kenny.
They threw away so much potential here like in Michonne, Batman, and Game Of Thrones. Also, they could have easily made the first episode two hours. Seems like I got took for a fool with S3 so far lol.
Okay. So, Clementine and AJ are in the forest following a rabbit and when Clementine takes aim on it with her gun, AJ lets out a loud babble, scaring it away. She then frustratingly explains to him that it was gonna be dinner and establishes that they're gonna starve if they can't catch something because their nearly out of food. She then spots a rabbit(possibly the same one) running near a car a few feet away, so she goes over to it and sits AJ inside, explaining that she needs him to stay there while she hunts and closes the door as AJ starts to complain and cry. So she closes in the rabbit and is getting ready to take a shot when she hears walkers behind and turns around to see one banging on the door while others approach in the background. So she kills a least two of them before going to get AJ out but a walker surprises her as she's getting him out and slams the door on her left hand. Stunned by the pain, she edges down to grab a rock to throw in its face and then elbows it with her free arm. With this walker down, she reaches over her shoulder to pull on the car door until it finally swings open. With AJ crying on the ground behind her, she collapses in pain and sees that her ring finger is bent/broken backwards and makes a horrified grimace as the flashback ends.
Comments
I agree that committing suicide so early on during the pregnancy might have been motivated by the wish to do what was most comfortable for herself—which was, in a way, to end her depressed life. Her death could've been fueled by reasons that only concerned herself. If she had not hanged herself, they might've come across other groups with medical expertise, and Jane didn't take that into consideration.
You do realize that it was dangerous for Clementine to look after a baby on her own, and therefore I conclude that you realize it would've been even more dangerous for her to look after a sick woman and two babies on her own. And there was no way that she could abort, given that she is no doctor and she is only one person.
I would like to propose to everyone reading the conclusion that, while Jane was selfish for commiting suicide so early on, her later life and the birth of her child would have asked too much of Clementine and the four of them could've died. The death of Jane was necessary sometime before labour, but going along with it so early was immoral because Jane was still physically fit at the time of the suicide.
Well I fear that I'm not the only one you'll be arguing about this with, if you continue trying to frame Jane as some selfless martyr and Kenny as the rabid dog cliche.
I would like it if you considered what I said just above in reply to @OneWayNoWay.
I have reevaluated that segment since speaking with you, and I would like it if you considered what I say just below.
Agreed that Jane being pregnant way further along and giving birth would have been a huge liability, and agreed that she was immoral for leaving much, much sooner than she needed to (considering she would be able bodied and able to perform chores and tasks for quite a while).
Something's fishy!
Thanks to you for aiding me in considering a new perspective!
And thanks to you for the honest discussion and letting me know you reevaluated your position, whether you had the desire to or not!
Honestly, I thought his scene was the best. My only real problems with it are 1. Kenny himself(aesthetically, he was the worst looking and sounding of the three), 2. it could've used more time on Kenny post-crash to increase the tension, and 3. the walkers pecking at his crash dummy stunt double at the end.
I just love everyone, okay
I love 'em all to death
Being pregnant is not being sick. Besides, Clem went through it with Christa and she most likely helped her deliver the baby too (which then probably died, since Clem says "not again" when Jane fakes the death of AJ. At least that's how I interpret it). I don't believe she thought of Clem and AJ's well-being when she decided to kill herself. I do think they are better off without her anyway, since she has proved countless times how unreliable she can be, but just because the outcome may have helped Clem and AJ, doesn't mean her intentions were pure and selfless to begin with. But that's just how I see it.
I'm reasonable happy with how the endings with Jane and Kenny ended up being, although I wish they were a bit longer.
Does anyone know why there wasn't a 'Alone with Clementine' ending flashback variant in Season 3? I'm thinking it's just because Telltale just decided to have the main two decisions made in the game but I would have liked to have seen, what would have happened if she was alone.
Hey guys, I made a thread outlining my pitches for how the Kenny/Jane flashbacks should have been handled and I've finished Kenny's for the most part.
If you guys are interested, check it out.
If you make the effort to truly understand what I said, you will realize that I didn't say Jane committed suicide for Clem's wellbeing. You missed the point of the post above.
Since I chose to stay at Wellington, I didn't know the fate of Kenny,
So of course went to youtube and the only one that seemed kinda dumb was Jane's.
There were so many other options but she chose suicide, granted I killed Jane I never trusted her nor liked her but...suicide never seemed to be the way she'd go.
Kenny's was cute and sad, it sucked that he had to break his legs (dunno why he couldn't make a last stand) but I liked it, he protected Clem and AJ by sacrificing his life.
To be honest I think Wellington's ending was the best, mainly cause Kenny could still be considered alive since he walked off.
I don't want him to show back up, the reason I left him was because it was best for Clem and AJ.
But when I was collecting supplies the first thing I grabbed was his hat. sheds single tear
Well, I don't know what your point is anymore. You seem to at least now agree that killing herself was not a selfless act but a selfish one. And now you seem to be saying that she would be a liability further down the road, which I also agree (I never thought she was reliable and fit to take care of two kids anyway, pregnant or not). But that's no excuse for what she did and why she did it.
I does exist.
You see, that's probably my biggest issue with her death. After everything Jane had done in the final of season 2, I just can't see her making such a drastic decision without taking into account of how Clementine, someone she had nearly died for, would have been effected. People can say what they want about Jane, myself included, really, but it was always an assured fact that she did obviously care for Clementine and was beginning to be able to show that more.
But now, after this, it gives the sense that Jane decided to overlook Clementine's feelings and needs for security and a friend, and instead went ahead with doing something that was driven only to benefit herself through suicide. It's why I feel that despite how terrible Kenny's demise is as well, it still reflected well enough on the character and while he was ridiculously stupid in it, he still put Clementine's needs before his own, something I believed that Jane would've done, after her development in S2, as well. I'm not her biggest fan, but I do think, this being Telltale's way of saying a final goodbye to the character, that it's a disgrace that they decided to end her in such an awful way, tainting her image and leaving a question mark over how much she really cared for Clementine.
Yeah, I get all that. My only real big issue with your original comment was that you referred to the act undertaken by Jane as "selfless", where I feel in complete opposite to. Other than that, I thought you did a good job explaining reasons for why Jane might have done what she did, but, personally, I still feel that suicide wasn't in her character, but oh, well, Telltale changed that. I always figured Jane would hold out on surviving till the end, not giving up and if something like a pregnancy surfaced, she'd try to find means of aborting it. I ain't denying that that wouldn't have been dangerous as fuck, but there are means to perform self-induced abortions, from what I've heard, anyway. And if she couldn't go through with that, she'd had at least have the decency to be honest with Clementine, wait it out a while for her sake, and if all else fails, sure, maybe suicide, but to just give up in such short notice within only a short time of finding out she was pregnant without even telling Clem, didn't feel very Jane-y to me.
The flashbacks could have been done much better. But it didn't detract me from enjoying the rest of the story
Agreed with NotSoConcerned here. Jane and Kenny (especially Jane) were just flat out wasted, and it's enough of a disappointment that no matter how much I might like the rest of the story otherwise (what there is of it), this has scarred it. It's guaranteed already bec to be the worst thing they've made in my eyes, and I hope it doesn't end up being the direction they go with their other series. Jane's death was so horribly expedient and out of character. I'm enjoying the rest of it, but this along with the short episodes is hurting my opinion of Telltale. I feel a little tinge of betrayal, and I haven't felt that from TTG before. Oh, well, I'm still going to enjoy the season; it's paid for. I really don't want to feel ripped off. I'm glad I pre-ordered, though. At least I was able to get the PS4 version of S2. I want to encourage better in the future, and discourage what they did in these scenes, and these short episodes. It's not up to par.
So there is an "Alone with Clementine," flashback in Season 3?
Yep. Want details?
Yes, please. That was the decision I made but I can't get my hands on Season 3 until the physical version comes out in February.
Okay. So, Clementine and AJ are in the forest following a rabbit and when Clementine takes aim on it with her gun, AJ lets out a loud babble, scaring it away. She then frustratingly explains to him that it was gonna be dinner and establishes that they're gonna starve if they can't catch something because their nearly out of food. She then spots a rabbit(possibly the same one) running near a car a few feet away, so she goes over to it and sits AJ inside, explaining that she needs him to stay there while she hunts and closes the door as AJ starts to complain and cry. So she closes in the rabbit and is getting ready to take a shot when she hears walkers behind and turns around to see one banging on the door while others approach in the background. So she kills a least two of them before going to get AJ out but a walker surprises her as she's getting him out and slams the door on her left hand. Stunned by the pain, she edges down to grab a rock to throw in its face and then elbows it with her free arm. With this walker down, she reaches over her shoulder to pull on the car door until it finally swings open. With AJ crying on the ground behind her, she collapses in pain and sees that her ring finger is bent/broken backwards and makes a horrified grimace as the flashback ends.